Can we talk about what Obama actually DID?

[TooTall]

.

It's looking pretty obvious that the GOP doesn't want to write a new bill on this.

Leadership? No, that's too difficult.

I guess my question is answered.

.

It is up to the President to provide leadership. Obama doesn't know how to do that.

 

[billyerock1991]

.

Boy, I'm really failing to get this conversation going on other threads, so I'll try to start one.

From what I've seen the main takeaway from this act is that most illegals will not be deported if they have not been here long enough; they have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

Seems like much ado about not that much to me.

I also heard him challenge the GOP Congress to pass a bill that will override this act. So, as I asked on another thread -- don't we all agree that our immigration system is fucked up? Don't we want to fix something that is important and fucked up?

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

.

here's what you are missing ... if obama a democrat/liberal is for it the republicans are against it... republicans have demonized liberals/dems so much that it has become very hard anymore to do anything worth while ... by the republicans coming into power we here in america are in for a rude awaking ...we dem/liberals
have been telling you this for a long time... even the president has tried to work with the republicans and when he comes up with a good Idea they're agin it...

 

[TooTall]

The immigration system is broken because that is how the ones that want cheap labor want it.....

Say thank you to Obama for providing all of that cheap labor.

 

[TooTall]

.

Boy, I'm really failing to get this conversation going on other threads, so I'll try to start one.

From what I've seen the main takeaway from this act is that most illegals will not be deported if they have not been here long enough; they have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

Seems like much ado about not that much to me.

I also heard him challenge the GOP Congress to pass a bill that will override this act. So, as I asked on another thread -- don't we all agree that our immigration system is fucked up? Don't we want to fix something that is important and fucked up?

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

.

Here is your problem.

We DON'T agree that the immigration system is fucked up.

The system is just fine.

It is the people administering the program that are fucked up. I think we should press criminal charges against them Myself.

If we simply enforced our existing immigration laws, there would be no problem at all.

Well, that is not true Darkwind, we do have problems with our immigration policy and it extends from when Immigration reform was passed under President Reagan. President Reagan's plan had border enforcement and very harsh penalties for American Companies hiring illegals....with his Amnesty.

When the bill finally passed, Congress STRIPPED the hard penalties for employers that hire illegals and didn't fund increased border security for a couple more decades.

THIS is where Reagan's Immigration Reform went wrong....and THIS is why we have more illegals today than ever before....not Reagan's Amnesty....Reagan gives very eloquent reasons why....amnesty was important....but Congress gutting the bill of any teeth to stop illegal immigration from continuing, is where the bill failed us.

Congress needs to put some teeth in an immigration policy that stops illegal immigration from continuing and harsh penalties for employers that hire illegals stops illegal immigration at its ROOT.

These people are coming here to better their lives by getting jobs.

No jobs to be had for new illegals, no one wanting to risk death to cross the border to get here....for no jobs available for them.

1. It was a law written by a Democrat Congress. Calling it Reagan's bill does not lend much in the way of credibility to your argument.

2. There are laws still on the books regarding immigration that predate the 80's amnesty bill, which was to be a "One Time" deal.

So, again, let Me reiterate. Enforce the immigration laws that are on the books, and companies along with border jumpers, get fined, penalized and/or jailed or deported.

The real problem with immigration is its lack of enforcement. Plain and simple.

Start with enforcing current law. Then look at what area's are lacking...

Then...........and get this....


Fix ONLY those areas that are lacking. Like border enforcement and the like.

The bill passed by the Senate is a farce, as is ANY bill that claims to be "comprehensive".

I heard someone say that when you see 'comprehensive' in front of a bill, the word comprehensive means there is a lot of bad stuff in their.

 

[TooTall]

.
[T]hey have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

FACT: Obama is only granting temporary amnesty to a finite group of parents whose children are legal U.S. citizens.

FACT: In exchange for this temporary amnesty, these illegals have to come out of the shadows, pay taxes and render themselves trackable by the US Government (by signing forms and handing over private information). Under the laws of Homeland Security, the high number of undocumented immigrants living in the shadows is considered a threat to national security. (The GOP knows this, and they know the president has to do something about it, and they're hoping that their inaction will force Obama's hand which will give them "red meat" to convince the American people that a democratic president cannot be trusted. This is a sign of their increasing desperation over not being able to win presidential elections).

FACT: Reagan enacted a sweeping (and much larger) overhaul that gave legal status to up to 3 million immigrants without authorization to be in the country, if they had come to the U.S. before 1982.

FACT: In February 1990, President George H.W. Bush, acting through the Immigration and Naturalization Service, established a "family fairness" in which family members living with a legalizing immigrant were granted protection from deportation and authorized to seek employment. The administration estimated up to 1.5 million people would be covered by the policy.

FACT: The GOP will not pass immigration reform because any Republican who is part of any legislation that Obama signs will be destroyed in the next election.

FACT: if the Democrats and Republicans work together to solve this problem, specifically if they send Obama an immigration bill that he can sign, than this would prove that government can (in isolated circumstances) fix problems. However, we know that The GOP cannot allow this to happen because they have created a climate where they lose politically if government solves any problems. The Republican platform is now 100% dominated by one single fact: government is broken and cannot solve any problems. Remember: these people get elected based on the promise that they will obstruct Obama and Government from doing anything, because Government by definition is evil and must be stopped.

FACT: it is in the GOPs interest to do ABSOLUTELY nothing on this issue, thus forcing Obama to bring these people out of the shadows so that they can be taxed and, more importantly, documented & tracked by the Department of Homeland Security. Then, when Obama does what they know he has to do, they can run commercials in 2016 about how Democratic presidents are dictators who don't respect "Borders, Language, Culture".

FACT: They got Obama exactly where they want him.

Fact: The Pinocchio Test
The president has certainly been consistent on this issue—until he saw that the path through Congress was blocked. It’s clear from the interviews that the president was not being asked about executive orders that would have provided comprehensive immigration reform, but about specific actions that ended deportations of a subset of illegal immigrants—precisely the type of action he will shortly unveil.

Previously he said that was not possible, using evocative language that he is not a “king” or “the emperor.” Apparently he’s changed his mind. The president earns an upside-down Pinocchio for his flip-flop.

An Upside-Down Pinocchio

 

[TooTall]

We shall see.

He temporarily out foxed them. It was a masterful political move like it or not.

Now the GOP will have to respond in a legislative manner that is moderate or it will go down in flames. They have allowed him to set the the tone.

Acting or re acting

GOP better not let the loons set he tone. What will they do sue the POTUS for doing something they wouldn't do? Yeah, that's gonna go well. Just do your damn jobs. Dummies.

Very clever President Obama. Not a big fan but I give you credit for a masterful move.

I can hardly wait for a Republican President to tell Congress to fix the tax code and when they don't, he writes an Executive Order telling everyone they don't have to pay their taxes. Obama has already set the legal precedent.

 

[Conservative65]

Another point regarding what was actually done. These people who are being shielded from deportation are parents of US citizens. These US citizens, once they become adults, can apply for permanent visas for their parents. Since they are still not adults in many cases, they cannot do this under current law. All that happened in these cases was a hastening of the inevitable.

Irrelevant that they are parents of citizens. They are ILLEGAL and that doesn't justify them being allowed to stay because their criminal act is the only reason the little shits they squeezed out happenn to be incorrectly given citizenship under some misinterpretation of the Constitution.

At least if they apply for visas, they are following the laws. Interesting that you justify breaking the law. Doesn't say a lot about your character.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Another point regarding what was actually done. These people who are being shielded from deportation are parents of US citizens. These US citizens, once they become adults, can apply for permanent visas for their parents. Since they are still not adults in many cases, they cannot do this under current law. All that happened in these cases was a hastening of the inevitable.

Irrelevant that they are parents of citizens. They are ILLEGAL and that doesn't justify them being allowed to stay because their criminal act is the only reason the little shits they squeezed out happenn to be incorrectly given citizenship under some misinterpretation of the Constitution.

At least if they apply for visas, they are following the laws. Interesting that you justify breaking the law. Doesn't say a lot about your character.

You've never encountered a person with more character, dummy.

You haven't got the ability, it seems, to grasp the nuances of this issue. You are simply not bright enough.

 

[Conservative65]

Another point regarding what was actually done. These people who are being shielded from deportation are parents of US citizens. These US citizens, once they become adults, can apply for permanent visas for their parents. Since they are still not adults in many cases, they cannot do this under current law. All that happened in these cases was a hastening of the inevitable.

Irrelevant that they are parents of citizens. They are ILLEGAL and that doesn't justify them being allowed to stay because their criminal act is the only reason the little shits they squeezed out happenn to be incorrectly given citizenship under some misinterpretation of the Constitution.

At least if they apply for visas, they are following the laws. Interesting that you justify breaking the law. Doesn't say a lot about your character.

You've never encountered a person with more character, dummy.

You haven't got the ability, it seems, to grasp the nuances of this issue. You are simply not bright enough.

I've picked up dog shit in my back yard that had more character than you ever will boy.

The nuances are that the affirmative action boy in the White House did what he did to pander votes. Seems you missed HIS claims, on several occassions, that he didn't have the authority to do what he did.

 

[Kondor3]

. ...What am I missing?

The Path to Shamnesty, for 12,000,000...

Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile...

They're already clamoring that it isn't enough...

Phukk 'em...

We will shortly be experiencing 'Mission Creep'...unless this is effectively contested.

Mark my words...

With any luck, the Pubs will actually get off their dead asses and neutralize much or all of this in the coming weeks...

 

[Conservative65]

The Senate passed a bipartisan bill with 68 votes...seriously, in this divided government, 68 votes in the Senate on an immigration bill that the Boehner has refused to allow the full House to vote on...because it will pass. This bill was passed by the Senate over 500 days ago.

Tell me, why would the House take up a bill that was unconstitutional from the get go? The Senate bill contained fines and fees which are revenue raising measures that constitutionally must originate in the House. Tell me where I got this wrong, if you can.

Democrats conveniently miss that and when it is shown to them they ignore it as an inconvenience.

 

[Redfish]

The Senate passed a bipartisan bill with 68 votes...seriously, in this divided government, 68 votes in the Senate on an immigration bill that the Boehner has refused to allow the full House to vote on...because it will pass. This bill was passed by the Senate over 500 days ago.

The plan has been to never let the President to ever appear to have any victory and then complain loudly that he is not getting anything done.

Works for the faithful and stupid.

Based on a similar concept to what you say, Harry Reid had failed to let jobs bills passed by the House come up for a vote in the Senate then the President complains the Republicans aren't doing anything in the House.

Okay.

So what is the GOP actually going to do about it?

And more to the point, what is the GOP going to do about our immigration situation, if anything?

.

A better question is what CAN the GOP do about it than will actually be implemented?

Solving our illegal immigration problem is easy. Build a fence, close the borders, and shoot any SOB, after one warning, that tries to sneak in. I put locks on my doors at my house which tells those uninvited not to come in. If they still choose to do so, that's what I would do to them.

What about those who are already here, and their children?

.

We need a plan for them (the non-criminals who are actually working) that will allow them to stay, pay a large fine for breaking our laws, and get at the end of the line for citizenship. They should receive no govt assistence of any kind until they become citizens, any violation of any law should result in immedicate deportation of their entire family.

Remember, those people are in this country ILLEGALLY.

We also need to repeal the anchor baby laws which were made for slaves, not illegal aliens.

 

[rdean]

Republicans concerned about laws they don't follow. Look at Bundy.

And worried about protecting the country when they protected BP from the American people after what BP did in the gulf.

And they call themselves patriots.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Another point regarding what was actually done. These people who are being shielded from deportation are parents of US citizens. These US citizens, once they become adults, can apply for permanent visas for their parents. Since they are still not adults in many cases, they cannot do this under current law. All that happened in these cases was a hastening of the inevitable.

Irrelevant that they are parents of citizens. They are ILLEGAL and that doesn't justify them being allowed to stay because their criminal act is the only reason the little shits they squeezed out happenn to be incorrectly given citizenship under some misinterpretation of the Constitution.

At least if they apply for visas, they are following the laws. Interesting that you justify breaking the law. Doesn't say a lot about your character.

You've never encountered a person with more character, dummy.

You haven't got the ability, it seems, to grasp the nuances of this issue. You are simply not bright enough.

I've picked up dog shit in my back yard that had more character than you ever will boy.

The nuances are that the affirmative action boy in the White House did what he did to pander votes. Seems you missed HIS claims, on several occassions, that he didn't have the authority to do what he did.

You seem shocked that a politician would pander for votes.

I saw his claims. He was referring to various issues....not what he did yesterday. Pay attention to the details.

What's an "affirmative action boy"? Is that you demonstrating character?

 

[bendog]

The Senate passed a bipartisan bill with 68 votes...seriously, in this divided government, 68 votes in the Senate on an immigration bill that the Boehner has refused to allow the full House to vote on...because it will pass. This bill was passed by the Senate over 500 days ago.

Tell me, why would the House take up a bill that was unconstitutional from the get go? The Senate bill contained fines and fees which are revenue raising measures that constitutionally must originate in the House. Tell me where I got this wrong, if you can.

Democrats conveniently miss that and when it is shown to them they ignore it as an inconvenience.

I'm not a dem, but you need to get an educ on con law outside of screech radio. Since Justice Story, a revenue bill is a bill that deals explicitly with taxes, and bill that does something that incidentally does something with taxes (like the ACA) can originate in either chamber.

 

[Conservative65]

The Senate passed a bipartisan bill with 68 votes...seriously, in this divided government, 68 votes in the Senate on an immigration bill that the Boehner has refused to allow the full House to vote on...because it will pass. This bill was passed by the Senate over 500 days ago.

Tell me, why would the House take up a bill that was unconstitutional from the get go? The Senate bill contained fines and fees which are revenue raising measures that constitutionally must originate in the House. Tell me where I got this wrong, if you can.

Democrats conveniently miss that and when it is shown to them they ignore it as an inconvenience.

I'm not a dem, but you need to get an educ on con law outside of screech radio. Since Justice Story, a revenue bill is a bill that deals explicitly with taxes, and bill that does something that incidentally does something with taxes (like the ACA) can originate in either chamber.

Obamacare was upheld under the government's ability to tax. Seems your bubble has popped.

 

[Redfish]

The Senate passed a bipartisan bill with 68 votes...seriously, in this divided government, 68 votes in the Senate on an immigration bill that the Boehner has refused to allow the full House to vote on...because it will pass. This bill was passed by the Senate over 500 days ago.

Tell me, why would the House take up a bill that was unconstitutional from the get go? The Senate bill contained fines and fees which are revenue raising measures that constitutionally must originate in the House. Tell me where I got this wrong, if you can.

Democrats conveniently miss that and when it is shown to them they ignore it as an inconvenience.

I'm not a dem, but you need to get an educ on con law outside of screech radio. Since Justice Story, a revenue bill is a bill that deals explicitly with taxes, and bill that does something that incidentally does something with taxes (like the ACA) can originate in either chamber.

Obamacare was upheld under the government's ability to tax. Seems your bubble has popped.

so you admit that obama and all the dems lied when they said it was not a tax? OK, add that to the list of lies.

 

[Conservative65]

The plan has been to never let the President to ever appear to have any victory and then complain loudly that he is not getting anything done.

Works for the faithful and stupid.

Based on a similar concept to what you say, Harry Reid had failed to let jobs bills passed by the House come up for a vote in the Senate then the President complains the Republicans aren't doing anything in the House.

Okay.

So what is the GOP actually going to do about it?

And more to the point, what is the GOP going to do about our immigration situation, if anything?

.

A better question is what CAN the GOP do about it than will actually be implemented?

Solving our illegal immigration problem is easy. Build a fence, close the borders, and shoot any SOB, after one warning, that tries to sneak in. I put locks on my doors at my house which tells those uninvited not to come in. If they still choose to do so, that's what I would do to them.

What about those who are already here, and their children?

.

We need a plan for them (the non-criminals who are actually working) that will allow them to stay, pay a large fine for breaking our laws, and get at the end of the line for citizenship. They should receive no govt assistence of any kind until they become citizens, any violation of any law should result in immedicate deportation of their entire family.

Remember, those people are in this country ILLEGALLY.

We also need to repeal the anchor baby laws which were made for slaves, not illegal aliens.

Another point regarding what was actually done. These people who are being shielded from deportation are parents of US citizens. These US citizens, once they become adults, can apply for permanent visas for their parents. Since they are still not adults in many cases, they cannot do this under current law. All that happened in these cases was a hastening of the inevitable.

Irrelevant that they are parents of citizens. They are ILLEGAL and that doesn't justify them being allowed to stay because their criminal act is the only reason the little shits they squeezed out happenn to be incorrectly given citizenship under some misinterpretation of the Constitution.

At least if they apply for visas, they are following the laws. Interesting that you justify breaking the law. Doesn't say a lot about your character.

You've never encountered a person with more character, dummy.

You haven't got the ability, it seems, to grasp the nuances of this issue. You are simply not bright enough.

I've picked up dog shit in my back yard that had more character than you ever will boy.

The nuances are that the affirmative action boy in the White House did what he did to pander votes. Seems you missed HIS claims, on several occassions, that he didn't have the authority to do what he did.

You seem shocked that a politician would pander for votes.

I saw his claims. He was referring to various issues....not what he did yesterday. Pay attention to the details.

What's an "affirmative action boy"? Is that you demonstrating character?

I'm not shocked that you won't admit what Obama does is pandering.

It's a President that got elected based on skin color instead of what he can do. Those doing so don't show character. Those calling them out for it, try to teach you what it is to have some.

 

[Redfish]

Based on a similar concept to what you say, Harry Reid had failed to let jobs bills passed by the House come up for a vote in the Senate then the President complains the Republicans aren't doing anything in the House.

Okay.

So what is the GOP actually going to do about it?

And more to the point, what is the GOP going to do about our immigration situation, if anything?

.

A better question is what CAN the GOP do about it than will actually be implemented?

Solving our illegal immigration problem is easy. Build a fence, close the borders, and shoot any SOB, after one warning, that tries to sneak in. I put locks on my doors at my house which tells those uninvited not to come in. If they still choose to do so, that's what I would do to them.

What about those who are already here, and their children?

.

We need a plan for them (the non-criminals who are actually working) that will allow them to stay, pay a large fine for breaking our laws, and get at the end of the line for citizenship. They should receive no govt assistence of any kind until they become citizens, any violation of any law should result in immedicate deportation of their entire family.

Remember, those people are in this country ILLEGALLY.

We also need to repeal the anchor baby laws which were made for slaves, not illegal aliens.

Another point regarding what was actually done. These people who are being shielded from deportation are parents of US citizens. These US citizens, once they become adults, can apply for permanent visas for their parents. Since they are still not adults in many cases, they cannot do this under current law. All that happened in these cases was a hastening of the inevitable.

Irrelevant that they are parents of citizens. They are ILLEGAL and that doesn't justify them being allowed to stay because their criminal act is the only reason the little shits they squeezed out happenn to be incorrectly given citizenship under some misinterpretation of the Constitution.

At least if they apply for visas, they are following the laws. Interesting that you justify breaking the law. Doesn't say a lot about your character.

You've never encountered a person with more character, dummy.

You haven't got the ability, it seems, to grasp the nuances of this issue. You are simply not bright enough.

I've picked up dog shit in my back yard that had more character than you ever will boy.

The nuances are that the affirmative action boy in the White House did what he did to pander votes. Seems you missed HIS claims, on several occassions, that he didn't have the authority to do what he did.

You seem shocked that a politician would pander for votes.

I saw his claims. He was referring to various issues....not what he did yesterday. Pay attention to the details.

What's an "affirmative action boy"? Is that you demonstrating character?

I'm not shocked that you won't admit what Obama does is pandering.

It's a President that got elected based on skin color instead of what he can do. Those doing so don't show character. Those calling them out for it, try to teach you what it is to have some.

I think you are lecturing the wrong poster, I am on your side.

 

[bendog]

The Senate passed a bipartisan bill with 68 votes...seriously, in this divided government, 68 votes in the Senate on an immigration bill that the Boehner has refused to allow the full House to vote on...because it will pass. This bill was passed by the Senate over 500 days ago.

Tell me, why would the House take up a bill that was unconstitutional from the get go? The Senate bill contained fines and fees which are revenue raising measures that constitutionally must originate in the House. Tell me where I got this wrong, if you can.

Democrats conveniently miss that and when it is shown to them they ignore it as an inconvenience.

I'm not a dem, but you need to get an educ on con law outside of screech radio. Since Justice Story, a revenue bill is a bill that deals explicitly with taxes, and bill that does something that incidentally does something with taxes (like the ACA) can originate in either chamber.

Obamacare was upheld under the government's ability to tax. Seems your bubble has popped.

Yes, and the reason it didn't violate the origination clause is because it was NOT primarily a revenue bill, but rather a bill to establish universal care, which raised taxes to accomplish that goal. Had it been a general revenue bill, it could not have been upheld. And, I'm not a fan of obamacare. But I do think it would help is people at least tried to apply pretty basic notions of con law.