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Define perfect? What for? It will be my subjective meaning of perfect.D
Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?
Define "perfect."
In Scripture, perfect means complete for the purpose it was created.
God is love (1 John 4:8) - and he purposed for us to love Him and each other. However, the quality of love we were created with was part of being in 'God's image" (Genesis 1:26) which involves free will.
Jehovah wanted us to love Him (Matthew 22:37-40). But this type of love involves free will. Jehovah took a risk in creating Adam and Eve with the capacity to love as He loves. Of course, Jehovah could have created robots programmed to show love to Him - however Jehovah could not do this because He is love which involves free will. Put simply, Jehovah did not want his creations to love him automatically or by program - he wanted us to have a choice. Was it worth the risk?
To illustrate: Would you want someone to love you without choice? For example, when you look for someone to love and show love you hope they will love you back. It may be that a number of those do not choose to love you back, or love you less than you love them. But when you find someone that chooses to love you back - wasn't it worth the risk? Jehovah has found people who truly love him back - by choice, because they want to - not because they were programmed to,
The apparent confusion results in not being able to comprehend, understand and or see how all things work for good.Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
It is a common error of atheists like yourself and used to justify their irrational and emotional view of reality. They can’t understand how a good God can allow bad things to happen to good people. I see this irrationality all the time in people who behave like you do.
Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
There are 2 Scriptures I will start off with in response - the first shows that all things are NOT going according to God's plan - and, of course, the doctrine of pre-destination is false, while it is true that all humans have free will:
Genesis 6:6
And Jehovah felt regrets+ that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart.+
Jehovah wanted all people to live forever on a paradise earth (Psalms 37:29) - that is why he put the tree of life in the garden of Eden (Genesis 2:9; 3:22). However, people decided to choose good and evil for themselves (as per the other tree), and they chose evil:
Genesis 6:5
Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time.+
So Jehovah felt hurt at heart and regretted he had created humans because things had turned out so bad. Clearly everything did NOT go according to Gods plan. And the second Scripture involves the state of mankind right now - not so good (though not as bad as Gen.6:5):
2 Peter 3:9
Jehovah* is not slow concerning his promise,+ as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.+
God's promise involves all people living on a paradise earth forever (see Psalms 37:10,11,29; Matthew 5:5; Isaiah 11:7-9) - so his purpose for creation will ultimately succeed - but not according to God's original plan (cp. Genesis 3:15).
However, notice that Jehovah's desire is that all people attain to repentance and live forever. Yet verse 7 shows ungodly people will be destroyed (at Armageddon - see Revelation 11:18 -God will destroy those destroying this planet). So therefore, what Jehovah desires will not take place. since many will end up being destroyed (Matthew 7:13,14).
Yet, God has directed his witnesses (Isaiah 43:10,12) to preach the good news of God's kingdom to people of all nations (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10) during these last days (of the wicked world/system of things). But do you know what the good news of God's kingdom is?
If you accept the notion of the Judeo-Christian personality "Yahweh", you either accept the literal, omni-everything attributes or you equivocate and accept the parts you're comfortable with and reject the rest.
That describes every religionist of every stripe and caliber of weapon I've ever met.
So you have not met me! Jehovah's Witnesses do not accept all of the Judeo-Christendom teachings about God - as I have posted concerning his "feeling regrets" or changing his mind - this is what the Bible really teaches but is not what most religions in Christendom teach.
The prefix "omni" is not in the Divine Name (YHWH), and we do not believe in the doctrine of omniscience/all knowing. God can know anything - but God is love and would never foreknow all things (like our futures) - see 1 John 4:8.
There is a scientific aspect to this as well. Simply, the future does not exist for anyone, including God, to see. God does not see things that do not exist. So how does God foretell the future? Two ways for starters:
1. Patterns that already exist. For example, Milky Way and thousands of other galaxies heading towards the Great Attractor and the Shapley Supercluster that lies even further away and is much more massive. The speed and trajectory of the Milky Way (and Andromeda galaxy, etc.) are known but scientists have not yet reported the results of all the galactic mergers involved - it is extremely complex math - but math does exist and does determine some aspects of the future.
2, Causing the future to happen. This is one reason the Bible warns against spiritism. See Deuteronomy chapter 18. The demons cannot see the future either - but they can cause future things to happen. This is one reason why spiritism is so dangerous - it is inviting our future to be controlled by demons!
But God can cause future things to happen - thankfully, God is love! (1 John 4:8; 2 Peter 3:9)
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done(when it comes) on Earth as it is in Heaven. Be patient.Satan runs this shithole. Look around.
He offered the whole thing to Yeshua.....and got laughed at.
God has a Plan or an End Game?Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
God does not know or dictate the future. Human free will is absolute, and God does not directly influence the choices that people make.
Nor does He dictate in minute detail the machinations of the universe or the earth. He set in motion the physical initiation of the Universe (the Big Bang, if you must), in such a way that human life would be facilitated, but the universe is dynamic, not static, and "shit happens." Volcanoes, storms, floods, naturally-occurring fires, and earthquakes, are all essential to the dynamic universe, even though they result in great human suffering at times.
As the epitome of creation, WE must know that the death of our bodies is not the end of our existence, and hence when someone dies under circumstances that are unfair, outrageous, tragic, and so on, that death is not the end of the "story." "We" believe that there is an afterlife and that in some manner virtue is rewarded in the afterlife and evil is punished. So to shake your fist at God and call him names because of a tragic death is a DENIAL of one of our core beliefs - namely, that death is not the end.
God has a Plan or an End Game?Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
God has an End Game.
Man Plans and God laughs.
Please, do tell.God has a Plan or an End Game?Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
God has an End Game.
Man Plans and God laughs.
I know what he will do with your ilk.
Regards
DL
Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
That's kind of a strange question. You are implying that if a man makes a choice, that this choice a man makes, means therefore that G-d is incompetent.
I would ask you, do you have children? Because any parent will know that ultimately no matter how perfectly they parent, the child can decide to make bad choices.
I wager you yourself have made bad choices. Can you honestly suggest that every bad choice you have made in your life, is due to your parents incompetence?
I can think of dozens of times where parents warned their children over and over, to not do something, and the child determined to do it anyway, and then reaped a terrible result.
Now could G-d have created men as robots with no ability to make a choice? Sure.
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G-d did not want robots. He wanted people that could make their own choices. Unfortunately that means those people can choose to hate G-d. That's what free-will is all about.
Doesn't mean G-d is incompetent. If anything, it means we are incompetent to reject G-d when he's given us so much.
We are not created in God's image, we are created to shadow how God behaves towards our fellow humans.Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
That's kind of a strange question. You are implying that if a man makes a choice, that this choice a man makes, means therefore that G-d is incompetent.
I would ask you, do you have children? Because any parent will know that ultimately no matter how perfectly they parent, the child can decide to make bad choices.
I wager you yourself have made bad choices. Can you honestly suggest that every bad choice you have made in your life, is due to your parents incompetence?
I can think of dozens of times where parents warned their children over and over, to not do something, and the child determined to do it anyway, and then reaped a terrible result.
Now could G-d have created men as robots with no ability to make a choice? Sure.
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If you look few years back in the history communication with virtual girlfriends was only limited to films and video games. But technology gadgets become
Here you go. Here's some Virtual girlfriend apps. Let me know how much real genuine love you feel from a programmed response.
G-d did not want robots. He wanted people that could make their own choices. Unfortunately that means those people can choose to hate G-d. That's what free-will is all about.
Doesn't mean G-d is incompetent. If anything, it means we are incompetent to reject G-d when he's given us so much.
When you begin with a belief in a wrong assumption, one naturally gets to the wrong conclusions.
This is not about me. It is about Yahweh.
If we are incompetent, as you say, and we are created in god's image, --------
Competence is best shown by rejecting the gods we have created.
Follow your Jewish oral traditions and put man above god as you should, by tradition.
Regards
DL
Please, do tell.God has a Plan or an End Game?Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
God has an End Game.
Man Plans and God laughs.
I know what he will do with your ilk.
Regards
DL
Is this in regards to the 2 majors religions (actually 2 of the 5 major population "religions") that have Books that preach peace but have the bloodiest histories?
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Damn it! Why are you all referring to our world? I didn't mean our world, I consider our world to be an excellent place.Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?
Look around.
This is the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world.
Heaven is a good analogy.
This is irrefutable.
Regards
DL
Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
That's kind of a strange question. You are implying that if a man makes a choice, that this choice a man makes, means therefore that G-d is incompetent.
I would ask you, do you have children? Because any parent will know that ultimately no matter how perfectly they parent, the child can decide to make bad choices.
I wager you yourself have made bad choices. Can you honestly suggest that every bad choice you have made in your life, is due to your parents incompetence?
I can think of dozens of times where parents warned their children over and over, to not do something, and the child determined to do it anyway, and then reaped a terrible result.
Now could G-d have created men as robots with no ability to make a choice? Sure.
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If you look few years back in the history communication with virtual girlfriends was only limited to films and video games. But technology gadgets become
Here you go. Here's some Virtual girlfriend apps. Let me know how much real genuine love you feel from a programmed response.
G-d did not want robots. He wanted people that could make their own choices. Unfortunately that means those people can choose to hate G-d. That's what free-will is all about.
Doesn't mean G-d is incompetent. If anything, it means we are incompetent to reject G-d when he's given us so much.
When you begin with a belief in a wrong assumption, one naturally gets to the wrong conclusions.
This is not about me. It is about Yahweh.
If we are incompetent, as you say, and we are created in god's image, --------
Competence is best shown by rejecting the gods we have created.
Follow your Jewish oral traditions and put man above god as you should, by tradition.
Regards
DL
What other standard did you want me to use?I have no surprise you picked the word 'perfect' and tried to speculate around it. My question wasnt about perfect this world is or not. Nor about subjective meaning of 'perfect'. You missed my point.Who said what he created isn’t perfect?Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?
Doesn’t your assumption imply that you have perfect knowledge and that you know what the creator of existence was trying to create?’
Seems presumptuous on your part to believe you know better than a power that was capable of creating existence.
Read what I wrote in the post 34.What other standard did you want me to use?I have no surprise you picked the word 'perfect' and tried to speculate around it. My question wasnt about perfect this world is or not. Nor about subjective meaning of 'perfect'. You missed my point.Who said what he created isn’t perfect?Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?
Doesn’t your assumption imply that you have perfect knowledge and that you know what the creator of existence was trying to create?’
Seems presumptuous on your part to believe you know better than a power that was capable of creating existence.
what level of imperfection will you accept before not dismissing that God exists?
that is your point, right? That things should be better? How much better? What exactly are you expecting to be different?
Which was my original point. You don’t know the mind of God so you can’t know that this isn’t exactly what he intended to create. You don’t have perfect or complete knowledge. You can’t see how good comes from bad. You don’t know what outcomes he is trying to achieve under which conditions.Read what I wrote in the post 34.What other standard did you want me to use?I have no surprise you picked the word 'perfect' and tried to speculate around it. My question wasnt about perfect this world is or not. Nor about subjective meaning of 'perfect'. You missed my point.Who said what he created isn’t perfect?Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?
Doesn’t your assumption imply that you have perfect knowledge and that you know what the creator of existence was trying to create?’
Seems presumptuous on your part to believe you know better than a power that was capable of creating existence.
what level of imperfection will you accept before not dismissing that God exists?
that is your point, right? That things should be better? How much better? What exactly are you expecting to be different?
I know exactly what your mission is. You are here to subordinate religion.The apparent confusion results in not being able to comprehend, understand and or see how all things work for good.Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?
Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.
They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you have faith?
If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
Regards
DL
It is a common error of atheists like yourself and used to justify their irrational and emotional view of reality. They can’t understand how a good God can allow bad things to happen to good people. I see this irrationality all the time in people who behave like you do.
Your confusion is thinking the question on Yahweh was for me. Say Heil Mien Furer to your god for me.
Regards
DL
Dude, I already know your tactic. To make argument for the sake of argument. You point has nothing to do what I meant. Good luck.Which was my original point. You don’t know the mind of God so you can’t know that this isn’t exactly what he intended to create. You don’t have perfect or complete knowledge. You can’t see how good comes from bad. You don’t know what outcomes he is trying to achieve under which conditions.Read what I wrote in the post 34.What other standard did you want me to use?I have no surprise you picked the word 'perfect' and tried to speculate around it. My question wasnt about perfect this world is or not. Nor about subjective meaning of 'perfect'. You missed my point.Who said what he created isn’t perfect?Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?
Doesn’t your assumption imply that you have perfect knowledge and that you know what the creator of existence was trying to create?’
Seems presumptuous on your part to believe you know better than a power that was capable of creating existence.
what level of imperfection will you accept before not dismissing that God exists?
that is your point, right? That things should be better? How much better? What exactly are you expecting to be different?
