Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

[Indeependent]

Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?

Who said what he created isn’t perfect?

Doesn’t your assumption imply that you have perfect knowledge and that you know what the creator of existence was trying to create?’

Seems presumptuous on your part to believe you know better than a power that was capable of creating existence.

I have no surprise you picked the word 'perfect' and tried to speculate around it. My question wasnt about perfect this world is or not. Nor about subjective meaning of 'perfect'. You missed my point.

What other standard did you want me to use?

what level of imperfection will you accept before not dismissing that God exists?

that is your point, right? That things should be better? How much better? What exactly are you expecting to be different?

Read what I wrote in the post 34.

Which was my original point. You don’t know the mind of God so you can’t know that this isn’t exactly what he intended to create. You don’t have perfect or complete knowledge. You can’t see how good comes from bad. You don’t know what outcomes he is trying to achieve under which conditions.

Dude, I already know your tactic. To make argument for the sake of argument. You point has nothing to do what I meant. Good luck.

That's why I put a a$$hole on Ignore.

 

[Likkmee]

"Thwart" is a no. Recommend is OK. Ol Mo bitched about dealing with pharaoh due to his speech impediment. God called his bro to come and help him verbally.


A just judge will always weigh an argument
Abraham asked the Lord, “Will thou destroy the righteous with the wicked.” It is quite possible Abraham was thinking about his kinsman, Lot and his family. Abraham started negotiating with the Lord. He said, “If you can find fifty righteous people will you spare the city.” “The Lord said if I find fifty righteous people in the city I WILL SPARE ALL THE PEOPLE FOR THEIR SAKE” (Genesis 18: 26). Abraham continued to negotiate with God. He dropped the number of righteous people to forty, then to thirty, then to twenty. In Genesis 18:32, Abraham said to the Lord, “If I can find Ten righteous people In Sodom and Gomorrah will you spare the cities?” The Lord said He would not destroy it for the ten’s sake. Just think, ten righteous people could have saved the lives of thousands of people, not to mention all the buildings with the city. The very sad part of this story is not even the tiny number of ten righteous people could be found in these cities. The only righteous people to be found were Lot and his small family.

 

[Likkmee]

My unkle Noah didn't plea. He just got to building a bigass raft

 

[ding]

Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?

Who said what he created isn’t perfect?

Doesn’t your assumption imply that you have perfect knowledge and that you know what the creator of existence was trying to create?’

Seems presumptuous on your part to believe you know better than a power that was capable of creating existence.

I have no surprise you picked the word 'perfect' and tried to speculate around it. My question wasnt about perfect this world is or not. Nor about subjective meaning of 'perfect'. You missed my point.

What other standard did you want me to use?

what level of imperfection will you accept before not dismissing that God exists?

that is your point, right? That things should be better? How much better? What exactly are you expecting to be different?

Read what I wrote in the post 34.

Which was my original point. You don’t know the mind of God so you can’t know that this isn’t exactly what he intended to create. You don’t have perfect or complete knowledge. You can’t see how good comes from bad. You don’t know what outcomes he is trying to achieve under which conditions.

Dude, I already know your tactic. To make argument for the sake of argument. You point has nothing to do what I meant. Good luck.

Apparently you don’t.

these aren’t my tactics. These are my beliefs.

many people can’t understand why bad things happen to good people if a good God exists so you aren’t alone.

 

[ding]

Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?

Who said what he created isn’t perfect?

Doesn’t your assumption imply that you have perfect knowledge and that you know what the creator of existence was trying to create?’

Seems presumptuous on your part to believe you know better than a power that was capable of creating existence.

I have no surprise you picked the word 'perfect' and tried to speculate around it. My question wasnt about perfect this world is or not. Nor about subjective meaning of 'perfect'. You missed my point.

What other standard did you want me to use?

what level of imperfection will you accept before not dismissing that God exists?

that is your point, right? That things should be better? How much better? What exactly are you expecting to be different?

Read what I wrote in the post 34.

Which was my original point. You don’t know the mind of God so you can’t know that this isn’t exactly what he intended to create. You don’t have perfect or complete knowledge. You can’t see how good comes from bad. You don’t know what outcomes he is trying to achieve under which conditions.

Dude, I already know your tactic. To make argument for the sake of argument. You point has nothing to do what I meant. Good luck.

That's why I put a a$$hole on Ignore.

I thought it was because your ego couldn’t handle people who don’t agree with you.

 

[GreatestIam]

Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?

Look around.

This is the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world.

Heaven is a good analogy.

This is irrefutable.

Regards
DL

Damn it! Why are you all referring to our world? I didn't mean our world, I consider our world to be an excellent place.

Forget about our world, forget about what you personally think to be perfect. There is nothing. And now God decides to create a perfect world. 'Perfect' in his 'imagination' and no one can actually describe what this means. But he wants it to be 'perfect', what he decides it to be.

Now, a question. Is God capable to create such a world?

If you think that God owns such feature as omniscience, then don't bother to answer the question. My question was aimed at a particular poster.

The only omni Yahweh is, is omni-absent.

If he was here, he would deserve the bullet I have with his vile name on it.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.

They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Do you have faith?

If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.

Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?

Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?

Regards
DL

The apparent confusion results in not being able to comprehend, understand and or see how all things work for good.

It is a common error of atheists like yourself and used to justify their irrational and emotional view of reality. They can’t understand how a good God can allow bad things to happen to good people. I see this irrationality all the time in people who behave like you do.

Your confusion is thinking the question on Yahweh was for me. Say Heil Mien Furer to your god for me.

Regards
DL

I know exactly what your mission is. You are here to subordinate religion.

Thanks much.

You are here to promote evil.

Regards
DL

 

[beautress]

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done(when it comes) on Earth as it is in Heaven. Be patient.Satan runs this shithole. Look around.
He offered the whole thing to Yeshua.....and got laughed at.

That's not what the Good Book says, Likkmee. When God's kingdom comes into your life, you gain a sense of trying harder to bring brotherly love into the lives of others. And yes, belief that God is will pick you up when you fall helps you keep his dear kingdom inside you. Jesus did not laugh at the fallen Satan, but rebuked him with the Aramaic words for "Get thee behind me, Satan."

 

[ding]

Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.

They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Do you have faith?

If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.

Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?

Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?

Regards
DL

The apparent confusion results in not being able to comprehend, understand and or see how all things work for good.

It is a common error of atheists like yourself and used to justify their irrational and emotional view of reality. They can’t understand how a good God can allow bad things to happen to good people. I see this irrationality all the time in people who behave like you do.

Your confusion is thinking the question on Yahweh was for me. Say Heil Mien Furer to your god for me.

Regards
DL

I know exactly what your mission is. You are here to subordinate religion.

Thanks much.

You are here to promote evil.

Regards
DL

I am here to destroy your subversion.

 

[barn sour]

I know that verse well.

For god so hated his son that he had him needlessly murdered.

You are to emulate your god. Would you as the genocidal prick did or would you have the balls to stand up to evil?

Cowards can never be moral.

Regards
DL

Murdered?
No, God Himself came and dwelt among us in the form of Jesus Christ the Son.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He came out from God and willingly laid down his life to pay for the sins of the world. John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

 

[barn sour]

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done(when it comes) on Earth as it is in Heaven. Be patient.Satan runs this shithole. Look around.
He offered the whole thing to Yeshua.....and got laughed at.

Who gave Satan dominion, and why do such a hateful thing?

Hail Yahweh, the garbage god.

Regards
DL

Actually, God gave man dominion over the things of this world, and man simply relinquishes his dominion over to satan. Resist him and he flees. Simple.

 

[barn sour]

The proof of concept that says that we have no free will in Yahweh's reality is shown by the Pharaoh's heart being hardened.

Biblically, we have no free will. In reality, we do.

Do try to not be such a literalist. That makes fools of wise men.

Regards
DL

Your premise is faulty, and your example is a poor one. Pharaoh's heart was already hard. Read Exodus from the beginning and see what kind of a man the kings and pharaohs were. Look at what they were doing to the Israelites for four hundred years of slavery. Pharaoh's conscience was already seared. God only furthered hardened his heart as a sign to be declared through all the earth. Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Even after all the signs and wonders.....

Exodus 8:32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

 

[luchitociencia]

Define "perfect."

In this case creating a world without errors, and no, the biblical God won't create such a perfect world. Only God is perfect, not so his creation today and in the future.

In Scripture, perfect means complete for the purpose it was created.

You are correct in part. God just "found" Noah as perfect for his plan after destroying earth with the devastation using water. God saw that his creation was "good", there is not a single mention God created a perfect world in the bible.

God is love (1 John 4:8) - and he purposed for .....

You were asked about God creating a perfect world, and your answered adding "love" is way away related with the question.

 

[luchitociencia]

"Thwart" is a no. Recommend is OK. Ol Mo bitched about dealing with pharaoh due to his speech impediment. God called his bro to come and help him verbally.


A just judge will always weigh an argument
Abraham asked the Lord, “Will thou destroy the righteous with the wicked.” It is quite possible Abraham was thinking about his kinsman, Lot and his family. Abraham started negotiating with the Lord. He said, “If you can find fifty righteous people will you spare the city.” “The Lord said if I find fifty righteous people in the city I WILL SPARE ALL THE PEOPLE FOR THEIR SAKE” (Genesis 18: 26). Abraham continued to negotiate with God. He dropped the number of righteous people to forty, then to thirty, then to twenty. In Genesis 18:32, Abraham said to the Lord, “If I can find Ten righteous people In Sodom and Gomorrah will you spare the cities?” The Lord said He would not destroy it for the ten’s sake. Just think, ten righteous people could have saved the lives of thousands of people, not to mention all the buildings with the city. The very sad part of this story is not even the tiny number of ten righteous people could be found in these cities. The only righteous people to be found were Lot and his small family.

My opinion is that if the righteous were 15 or 200 in Sodom and Gomorrah, the destruction of the two cities was inevitable anyway. The messenger of God was messing up with Abraham...

 

[luchitociencia]

The only omni Yahweh is, is omni-absent.

I truly don't like when evil mind dudes say things which are part correct. The best is when they are completely in error.

You have very good arguments, some of them partially in the right path.

But religion needs people like you playing for the "good side". Evil mind people are like the serpent of Genesis, and even Jesus advised his followers to be wise as serpents.

 

[Indeependent]

"Thwart" is a no. Recommend is OK. Ol Mo bitched about dealing with pharaoh due to his speech impediment. God called his bro to come and help him verbally.


A just judge will always weigh an argument
Abraham asked the Lord, “Will thou destroy the righteous with the wicked.” It is quite possible Abraham was thinking about his kinsman, Lot and his family. Abraham started negotiating with the Lord. He said, “If you can find fifty righteous people will you spare the city.” “The Lord said if I find fifty righteous people in the city I WILL SPARE ALL THE PEOPLE FOR THEIR SAKE” (Genesis 18: 26). Abraham continued to negotiate with God. He dropped the number of righteous people to forty, then to thirty, then to twenty. In Genesis 18:32, Abraham said to the Lord, “If I can find Ten righteous people In Sodom and Gomorrah will you spare the cities?” The Lord said He would not destroy it for the ten’s sake. Just think, ten righteous people could have saved the lives of thousands of people, not to mention all the buildings with the city. The very sad part of this story is not even the tiny number of ten righteous people could be found in these cities. The only righteous people to be found were Lot and his small family.

My opinion is that if the righteous were 15 or 200 in Sodom and Gomorrah, the destruction of the two cities was inevitable anyway. The messenger of God was messing up with Abraham...

One person is a nut, 2 people is a "cause".
S'dom was a house of self=righteous neo-Cons who spat on everyone else.
Their punishment would probably have been a bad year for crops and perhaps drought.

 

[ESay]

Newtonian
I have a question. Can God create a perfect world if he decides to do so?

Look around.

This is the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world.

Heaven is a good analogy.

This is irrefutable.

Regards
DL

Damn it! Why are you all referring to our world? I didn't mean our world, I consider our world to be an excellent place.

Forget about our world, forget about what you personally think to be perfect. There is nothing. And now God decides to create a perfect world. 'Perfect' in his 'imagination' and no one can actually describe what this means. But he wants it to be 'perfect', what he decides it to be.

Now, a question. Is God capable to create such a world?

If you think that God owns such feature as omniscience, then don't bother to answer the question. My question was aimed at a particular poster.

The only omni Yahweh is, is omni-absent.

If he was here, he would deserve the bullet I have with his vile name on it.

Regards
DL

You contradict yourself. Some time ago, in another thread you wrote that 'light' and 'dark' sides are working in cooperation like Yin and Yang.

Obviously, you consider God of the OT to be a 'dark' side. But, your stance toward him is irrational because he is a part of duet which made all things happen.

 

[GreatestIam]

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done(when it comes) on Earth as it is in Heaven. Be patient.Satan runs this shithole. Look around.
He offered the whole thing to Yeshua.....and got laughed at.

That's not what the Good Book says, Likkmee. When God's kingdom comes into your life, you gain a sense of trying harder to bring brotherly love into the lives of others. And yes, belief that God is will pick you up when you fall helps you keep his dear kingdom inside you. Jesus did not laugh at the fallen Satan, but rebuked him with the Aramaic words for "Get thee behind me, Satan."

Only a high grade fool will ignore all the hate that Christianity continues to inflict on all women and gays with their vile homophonic and misogynous teachings.

Mainstream religions should get behind us as they are satanic.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

I know that verse well.

For god so hated his son that he had him needlessly murdered.

You are to emulate your god. Would you as the genocidal prick did or would you have the balls to stand up to evil?

Cowards can never be moral.

Regards
DL

Murdered?
No, God Himself came and dwelt among us in the form of Jesus Christ the Son.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He came out from God and willingly laid down his life to pay for the sins of the world. John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Literalists are so immoral that they do not care how they make Jesus look.

Are you one of the immoral ones and a moral coward?

If not, come and chat on morals.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.

You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Murdered?

Is suicide a sin?

Regards
DL