celibacy and human nature

[usmbguest5318]

I guess it would be pretty hard to get a "statistical link" for human nature and perversion. Probably have to follow someone from day one like "the truman show" lol
IDK i guess its more complicated than i thought. Im not saying you guys were right, though.
I think i found enough information to keep my current opinion on the matter.

???

"Human nature" is just another way of saying "the human condition," "human behavior," and "human psyche." Human nature is the manifestation of a host of decorous and unseemly behaviors and myriad ones in between. In the course of recorded human history, a given behavior and mindset may shift from virtuous to heinous, and back again. The constant, however, is that the behavior/mentality persists among humanity regardless of a society's benediction or execration of it.

The whole of the social sciences -- psychology, anthropology, economics, history, sociology, political science, law, linguistics, communication, etc. -- describe the human condition, human nature; it is the very thing the social sciences aim to understand. No one study takes on the task of understanding the whole of human nature, but plenty of of them qualify and quantify the nature and extent to which humans are given to specific mindsets and behaviors; in many instances there are multiple studies that shed light on varying aspects of a given depravity or rectitude. One need only identify the behavior and then review relevant research about it. (In some instances, there may not be enough or any research that renders pellucid an aspect of human nature. Those aspects become the things scholars research to eliminate that particular obscurity.)

 

[TNHarley]

Well, I read your article, TN, and I think where it might stray from factual is where it conflates (or the reader does) homosexuality with pedophilia. I don't think no matter how "deprived" a person is, they will ever develop sexual attraction to a child. As Moon pointed out, there's always masturbation.

I agree that men who do not have a sexual attraction to women will be more likely to enter the priesthood, because that celibacy thing is not so much of an issue. At least not open celibacy. Homosexuality and pedophilia are still "secret" pleasures, for the most part, or at least homosexuality was until very recently.

The thing about that argument is, alot of them go in as CHILDREN.
How many years of life must be dedicated to be able to enter priesthood?
As i asked you before, how many priests are women? More than 80% of priest victims are male. Statistics.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Actually the percentage of priests who are pedophiles is lower than the percentage in the overall general population.

It's always wise to research a subject before trying to debate it

frankly, we dont know how many cases they are. There is historical proof that priests have made children sign secrecy pledges about their abuse.
I have read 7% of all catholic priests were reported to be abusers. Whats the total for Americans? Less than 3% or so?
Maybe thats wrong, but that didnt have much to do with what i was looking for..

A US Dept of Education study revealed a child is 100 more times likely to be sexually abused by an educator than a priest. Perhaps all this "outrage" at priests and the Church should be redirected at where the real problem lies.

Catholic priests and pedophilia is a dog whistle to people..ill informed people

So my percentages mean nothing to you?
Do you have any links?

Somewhere, I'm busy this morning. If you ask for links...provide links

 

[Eaglewings]

Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

I have heard this, but I have never seen a parable supporting it..Do you have one?

I'm pretty sure that important tidbit of info would be Biblical

There are billions of biblical documents in the Vatican that 99.99999% of the world population has no idea of its content.
The bible has been selectively chosen for millennia
It took a thousand years before they would even let peasants be able to read it on their own..

Jesus wasn't married...good gawd. Just stop

Hey, i was just stating the facts.
You dont know if he was or not. You just BELIEVE

If Jesus married Mary, He would have been giving into His flesh. He knew what His purpose was here on earth.

He was the ultimate clean sacrifice without sin, so I do not agree that Jesus had sex nor married Mary.

 

[TNHarley]

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Actually the percentage of priests who are pedophiles is lower than the percentage in the overall general population.

It's always wise to research a subject before trying to debate it

frankly, we dont know how many cases they are. There is historical proof that priests have made children sign secrecy pledges about their abuse.
I have read 7% of all catholic priests were reported to be abusers. Whats the total for Americans? Less than 3% or so?
Maybe thats wrong, but that didnt have much to do with what i was looking for..

A US Dept of Education study revealed a child is 100 more times likely to be sexually abused by an educator than a priest. Perhaps all this "outrage" at priests and the Church should be redirected at where the real problem lies.

Catholic priests and pedophilia is a dog whistle to people..ill informed people

So my percentages mean nothing to you?
Do you have any links?

Somewhere, I'm busy this morning. If you ask for links...provide links

Pedophile and Child Molester Statistics - Yello Dyno
There are 400,000 registered sex offenders in the United States
Catholic church reveals 7% of priests accused abusers | Daily Mail Online

 

[strollingbones]

i was the one who ask for links......funny you wont or cant provide them

 

[OldLady]

Well, I read your article, TN, and I think where it might stray from factual is where it conflates (or the reader does) homosexuality with pedophilia. I don't think no matter how "deprived" a person is, they will ever develop sexual attraction to a child. As Moon pointed out, there's always masturbation.

I agree that men who do not have a sexual attraction to women will be more likely to enter the priesthood, because that celibacy thing is not so much of an issue. At least not open celibacy. Homosexuality and pedophilia are still "secret" pleasures, for the most part, or at least homosexuality was until very recently.

The thing about that argument is, alot of them go in as CHILDREN.
How many years of life must be dedicated to be able to enter priesthood?
As i asked you before, how many priests are women? More than 80% of priest victims are male. Statistics.

Interesting. It still doesn't mean homosexuals = pedophiles. It means exactly what your stats say. My firm understanding is that the priests had those proclivities PRIOR to being ordained, or whatever they call it in the Catholic Church.
What do you mean they go in as children?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Actually the percentage of priests who are pedophiles is lower than the percentage in the overall general population.

It's always wise to research a subject before trying to debate it

frankly, we dont know how many cases they are. There is historical proof that priests have made children sign secrecy pledges about their abuse.
I have read 7% of all catholic priests were reported to be abusers. Whats the total for Americans? Less than 3% or so?
Maybe thats wrong, but that didnt have much to do with what i was looking for..

A US Dept of Education study revealed a child is 100 more times likely to be sexually abused by an educator than a priest. Perhaps all this "outrage" at priests and the Church should be redirected at where the real problem lies.

Catholic priests and pedophilia is a dog whistle to people..ill informed people

So my percentages mean nothing to you?
Do you have any links?

Somewhere, I'm busy this morning. If you ask for links...provide links

Pedophile and Child Molester Statistics - Yello Dyno
There are 400,000 registered sex offenders in the United States
Catholic church reveals 7% of priests accused abusers | Daily Mail Online

This link says 4%

Six important points you don't hear about regarding clergy sexual abuse in the Catholic Church

The Dept of Education Study

https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf

 

[TNHarley]

I have heard this, but I have never seen a parable supporting it..Do you have one?

I'm pretty sure that important tidbit of info would be Biblical

There are billions of biblical documents in the Vatican that 99.99999% of the world population has no idea of its content.
The bible has been selectively chosen for millennia
It took a thousand years before they would even let peasants be able to read it on their own..

Jesus wasn't married...good gawd. Just stop

Hey, i was just stating the facts.
You dont know if he was or not. You just BELIEVE

If Jesus married Mary, He would have been giving into His flesh. He knew what His purpose was here on earth.

He was the ultimate clean sacrifice without sin, so I do not agree that Jesus had sex nor married Mary.

So they made out, they just didnt have sex? At least, according to the Gospel of Philip they did. But those pesky CEOs of the Roman empire couldnt have that gospel in the bible..
I mean, people do understand christianity today is only known through Constantines version of it, correct?

 

[TNHarley]

Well, I read your article, TN, and I think where it might stray from factual is where it conflates (or the reader does) homosexuality with pedophilia. I don't think no matter how "deprived" a person is, they will ever develop sexual attraction to a child. As Moon pointed out, there's always masturbation.

I agree that men who do not have a sexual attraction to women will be more likely to enter the priesthood, because that celibacy thing is not so much of an issue. At least not open celibacy. Homosexuality and pedophilia are still "secret" pleasures, for the most part, or at least homosexuality was until very recently.

The thing about that argument is, alot of them go in as CHILDREN.
How many years of life must be dedicated to be able to enter priesthood?
As i asked you before, how many priests are women? More than 80% of priest victims are male. Statistics.

Interesting. It still doesn't mean homosexuals = pedophiles. It means exactly what your stats say. My firm understanding is that the priests had those proclivities PRIOR to being ordained, or whatever they call it in the Catholic Church.
What do you mean they go in as children?

Alot of priests started practicing devout Catholicism at an early age. Becoming a priest isnt like going to a 4 year learning institution to get a degree for a teaching job.
Your understanding stems from the people that HIDE the perversion in the church. Does that tell you anything?

 

[Bonzi]

Here we go Blackrook OldLady
I have not found a statistical link between celibacy and pedophilia and/or homosexuality. However, i found this
http://humanismbyjoe.co/clerical-celibacy-and-pedophilic-priests/
You need to read that article. It lists many different doctors and knowledgeable people.
Richard Sipe - Wikipedia
Jay R. Feierman, M.D. Resume
David Finkelhor - Wikipedia
Crimes Against Children Research Center
They basically are stating what i said. I guess it would be pretty hard to get a "statistical link" for human nature and perversion. Probably have to follow someone from day one like "the truman show" lol
IDK i guess its more complicated than i thought. Im not saying you guys were right, though.
I think i found enough information to keep my current opinion on the matter. I mean, the people spent their life studying nature and the human mind. Hopefully, this is enough to at least make you think about it.
Fascinating IMO. Not just from a religious or sexual standpoint, but about nature in general. Suppression of natural instinct isnt good.
And here is a question for the catholics, why does your religion require celibacy when your God doesnt require it? Why do you require it, when your God made men to naturally crave sex and intimacy?

What about masturbation? Paul said it best that if you need sex you should marry, otherwise, it's best to dedicate your life to God as your priority.

God created woman for man, it's really not complicated. I think the Catholics intent was to portray Priests as "pure", but sex is not impure, otherwise Good would not have created Eve for Adam

 

[TNHarley]

frankly, we dont know how many cases they are. There is historical proof that priests have made children sign secrecy pledges about their abuse.
I have read 7% of all catholic priests were reported to be abusers. Whats the total for Americans? Less than 3% or so?
Maybe thats wrong, but that didnt have much to do with what i was looking for..

A US Dept of Education study revealed a child is 100 more times likely to be sexually abused by an educator than a priest. Perhaps all this "outrage" at priests and the Church should be redirected at where the real problem lies.

Catholic priests and pedophilia is a dog whistle to people..ill informed people

So my percentages mean nothing to you?
Do you have any links?

Somewhere, I'm busy this morning. If you ask for links...provide links

Pedophile and Child Molester Statistics - Yello Dyno
There are 400,000 registered sex offenders in the United States
Catholic church reveals 7% of priests accused abusers | Daily Mail Online

This link says 4%

Six important points you don't hear about regarding clergy sexual abuse in the Catholic Church

The Dept of Education Study

https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf

4% is still higher than american pedos that arent priests.
400,000 out of 320M isnt high at all.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

A US Dept of Education study revealed a child is 100 more times likely to be sexually abused by an educator than a priest. Perhaps all this "outrage" at priests and the Church should be redirected at where the real problem lies.

Catholic priests and pedophilia is a dog whistle to people..ill informed people

So my percentages mean nothing to you?
Do you have any links?

Somewhere, I'm busy this morning. If you ask for links...provide links

Pedophile and Child Molester Statistics - Yello Dyno
There are 400,000 registered sex offenders in the United States
Catholic church reveals 7% of priests accused abusers | Daily Mail Online

This link says 4%

Six important points you don't hear about regarding clergy sexual abuse in the Catholic Church

The Dept of Education Study

https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf

4% is still higher than american pedos that arent priests.
400,000 out of 320M isnt high at all.

I'm seeing percentages varying from 2% to 7%...the percentage of priests seems to mirror that of the general population.

One link made a good point, it's difficult to gauge because someone isn't going to admit they have pedophile tendencies. Something else I'm noticing, they are only using men in surveys and studies, women can also be pedos, the rash of female teachers and students confirms that

 

[TNHarley]

So my percentages mean nothing to you?
Do you have any links?

Somewhere, I'm busy this morning. If you ask for links...provide links

Pedophile and Child Molester Statistics - Yello Dyno
There are 400,000 registered sex offenders in the United States
Catholic church reveals 7% of priests accused abusers | Daily Mail Online

This link says 4%

Six important points you don't hear about regarding clergy sexual abuse in the Catholic Church

The Dept of Education Study

https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf

4% is still higher than american pedos that arent priests.
400,000 out of 320M isnt high at all.

I'm seeing percentages varying from 2% to 7%...the percentage of priests seems to mirror that of the general population.

One link made a good point, it's difficult to gauge because someone isn't going to admit they have pedophile tendencies. Something else I'm noticing, they are only using men in surveys and studies, women can also be pedos, the rash of female students and students confirms that

Thats a very good point. However, that can be applied to both sides. "lack of numbers" if you will.
If people dont speak out, we cant know. All we can do is go by what we do know.

 

[TNHarley]

Also, sassy, i do believe my 400K number came from registered sex offenders. I dont think sex matters in that number.

 

[Penelope]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Obviously one does not need to be a Priest to be gay or a pedophile, and most are not.

 

[TNHarley]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Obviously one does not need to be a Priest to be gay or a pedophile, and most are not.

yes, obviously. Thank you for that information. My point didnt even say hi to you, did it?

 

[Penelope]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Obviously one does not need to be a Priest to be gay or a pedophile, and most are not.

yes, obviously. Thank you for that information. My point didnt even say hi to you, did it?

I understand you are talking about being celibate leading to gay and pedophile relationships and I disagree. If you took all the preachers and deacons of protestant churches, who do not have to be celibate, I bet you'd find the same no.

 

[TNHarley]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Obviously one does not need to be a Priest to be gay or a pedophile, and most are not.

yes, obviously. Thank you for that information. My point didnt even say hi to you, did it?

I understand you are talking about being celibate leading to gay and pedophile relationships and I disagree.

Thats fine.
Thats why i posted research findings from doctors and people that dedicated their life to the human brain and nature.
What makes you come to that conclusion of yours?

 

[The Professor]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Actually the percentage of priests who are pedophiles is lower than the percentage in the overall general population.

It's always wise to research a subject before trying to debate it

Since there is considerably fewer priest than general population, I can see the correlation..Yet that is no excuse for a priest to piddle the youngsters.

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Actually the percentage of priests who are pedophiles is lower than the percentage in the overall general population.

It's always wise to research a subject before trying to debate it

Since there is considerably fewer priest than general population, I can see the correlation..Yet that is no excuse for a priest to piddle the youngsters.

I respectfully urge you to reconsider what the lady said . If she had said that the raw number of priests who are pedophiles was less than the raw number of non-priests, your comments would be appropriate. However, what she said was that the percentage of priests who are pedophiles was less than the percentage of those who were non-priests. . Whatever percentages she refers to would apply to any population size. Equating percentages to raw numbers is a statistical faux pas

I am not aware of any study that confirms what the lady says, but if it's true than one must conclude that priest are less inclined to be pedophiles than non-priests. If true (and I don't know that it is) that means that all condemnation of priests as pedophiles is completely baseless.

I will close with an example and a question:

The example: Suppose there was a country whose population consisted of one million red people and only one thousand blue people. Suppose further that two thousand red people were pedophiles and all one thousand blue people were pedophiles. There are a twice as many red pedophiles than blue ones, but if you select a blue baby sitter you are certain of getting a pedophile and if you select a red one your chances of getting a pedophile are only two tenths of one percent.

The question: Which baby sitter would you prefer, a red one of or a blue one?

Conclusion: Sometimes raw numbers are more important than percentages. The trick is to know which criterion is appropriate in any given situation. In situations such as this percentages are superior benchmarks.