celibacy and human nature

[Moonglow]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Actually the percentage of priests who are pedophiles is lower than the percentage in the overall general population.

It's always wise to research a subject before trying to debate it

Since there is considerably fewer priest than general population, I can see the correlation..Yet that is no excuse for a priest to piddle the youngsters.

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Actually the percentage of priests who are pedophiles is lower than the percentage in the overall general population.

It's always wise to research a subject before trying to debate it

Since there is considerably fewer priest than general population, I can see the correlation..Yet that is no excuse for a priest to piddle the youngsters.

I respectfully urge you to reconsider what the lady said . If she had said that the raw number of priests who are pedophiles was less than the raw number of non-priests, your comments would be appropriate. However, what she said was that the percentage of priests who are pedophiles was less than the percentage of those who were non-priests. . Whatever percentages she refers to would apply to any population size. Equating percentages to raw numbers is a statistical faux pas

I am not aware of any study that confirms what the lady says, but if it's true than one must conclude that priest are less inclined to be pedophiles than non-priests. If true (and I don't know that it is) that means that all condemnation of priests as pedophiles is completely baseless.

I will close with an example and a question:

The example: Suppose there was a country whose population consisted of one million red people and only one thousand blue people. Suppose further that two thousand red people were pedophiles and all one thousand blue people were pedophiles. There are a twice as many red pedophiles than blue ones, but if you select a blue baby sitter you are certain of getting a pedophile and if you select a red one your chances of getting a pedophile are only two tenths of one percent.

The question: Which baby sitter would you prefer, a red one of or a blue one?

Conclusion: Sometimes raw numbers are more important than percentages. The trick is to know which criterion is appropriate in any given situation. In situations such as this percentages are superior benchmarks.

Ok Pops, whatever you say..

 

[Votto]

Here we go Blackrook OldLady
I have not found a statistical link between celibacy and pedophilia and/or homosexuality. However, i found this
Clerical Celibacy and Pedophile Priests - Humanism by Joseph C. Sommer
You need to read that article. It lists many different doctors and knowledgeable people.
Richard Sipe - Wikipedia
Jay R. Feierman, M.D. Resume
David Finkelhor - Wikipedia
Crimes Against Children Research Center
They basically are stating what i said. I guess it would be pretty hard to get a "statistical link" for human nature and perversion. Probably have to follow someone from day one like "the truman show" lol
IDK i guess its more complicated than i thought. Im not saying you guys were right, though.
I think i found enough information to keep my current opinion on the matter. I mean, the people spent their life studying nature and the human mind. Hopefully, this is enough to at least make you think about it.
Fascinating IMO. Not just from a religious or sexual standpoint, but about nature in general. Suppression of natural instinct isnt good.
And here is a question for the catholics, why does your religion require celibacy when your God doesnt require it? Why do you require it, when your God made men to naturally crave sex and intimacy?

You fail to consider the possibility that pedophiles may pick the priesthood so they can offend with impunity.

 

[koshergrl]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

The Catholic church hasa high perversion rate because pedophiles are attracted to professions which provide them with access to children. Our school teachers have a really high perversion rate, too.

 

[koshergrl]

Here we go Blackrook OldLady
I have not found a statistical link between celibacy and pedophilia and/or homosexuality. However, i found this
Clerical Celibacy and Pedophile Priests - Humanism by Joseph C. Sommer
You need to read that article. It lists many different doctors and knowledgeable people.
Richard Sipe - Wikipedia
Jay R. Feierman, M.D. Resume
David Finkelhor - Wikipedia
Crimes Against Children Research Center
They basically are stating what i said. I guess it would be pretty hard to get a "statistical link" for human nature and perversion. Probably have to follow someone from day one like "the truman show" lol
IDK i guess its more complicated than i thought. Im not saying you guys were right, though.
I think i found enough information to keep my current opinion on the matter. I mean, the people spent their life studying nature and the human mind. Hopefully, this is enough to at least make you think about it.
Fascinating IMO. Not just from a religious or sexual standpoint, but about nature in general. Suppression of natural instinct isnt good.
And here is a question for the catholics, why does your religion require celibacy when your God doesnt require it? Why do you require it, when your God made men to naturally crave sex and intimacy?

You fail to consider the possibility that pedophiles may pick the priesthood so they can offend with impunity.

bingo.

 

[onefour1]

Genesis 2:24-25
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

1 Corinthians 11:11-12
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

Genesis 1:28
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 9:1-2
1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Celibacy is not a true doctrine.

 

[koshergrl]

Genesis 2:24-25
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

1 Corinthians 11:11-12
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

Genesis 1:28
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 9:1-2
1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Celibacy is not a true doctrine.

The church maintains it's discipline, not doctrine.

 

[TNHarley]

Here we go Blackrook OldLady
I have not found a statistical link between celibacy and pedophilia and/or homosexuality. However, i found this
Clerical Celibacy and Pedophile Priests - Humanism by Joseph C. Sommer
You need to read that article. It lists many different doctors and knowledgeable people.
Richard Sipe - Wikipedia
Jay R. Feierman, M.D. Resume
David Finkelhor - Wikipedia
Crimes Against Children Research Center
They basically are stating what i said. I guess it would be pretty hard to get a "statistical link" for human nature and perversion. Probably have to follow someone from day one like "the truman show" lol
IDK i guess its more complicated than i thought. Im not saying you guys were right, though.
I think i found enough information to keep my current opinion on the matter. I mean, the people spent their life studying nature and the human mind. Hopefully, this is enough to at least make you think about it.
Fascinating IMO. Not just from a religious or sexual standpoint, but about nature in general. Suppression of natural instinct isnt good.
And here is a question for the catholics, why does your religion require celibacy when your God doesnt require it? Why do you require it, when your God made men to naturally crave sex and intimacy?

You fail to consider the possibility that pedophiles may pick the priesthood so they can offend with impunity.

So they can do it with "impunity?" Is that really your justification for it? Lol

 

[koshergrl]

"Sometimes my pursuit of crack leaves me tired and depleted, but now cocaine comes in a delicious shake, Red Balls!"

 

[Uncensored2008]

Here we go Blackrook OldLady
I have not found a statistical link between celibacy and pedophilia and/or homosexuality. However, i found this
Clerical Celibacy and Pedophile Priests - Humanism by Joseph C. Sommer
You need to read that article. It lists many different doctors and knowledgeable people.
Richard Sipe - Wikipedia
Jay R. Feierman, M.D. Resume
David Finkelhor - Wikipedia
Crimes Against Children Research Center
They basically are stating what i said. I guess it would be pretty hard to get a "statistical link" for human nature and perversion. Probably have to follow someone from day one like "the truman show" lol
IDK i guess its more complicated than i thought. Im not saying you guys were right, though.
I think i found enough information to keep my current opinion on the matter. I mean, the people spent their life studying nature and the human mind. Hopefully, this is enough to at least make you think about it.
Fascinating IMO. Not just from a religious or sexual standpoint, but about nature in general. Suppression of natural instinct isnt good.
And here is a question for the catholics, why does your religion require celibacy when your God doesnt require it? Why do you require it, when your God made men to naturally crave sex and intimacy?

Why are the overwhelming majority of pedophiles public school teachers?

Simple, it's where the children are.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Celibacy--or even behaving oneself in that regard--is a monstrous challenge.


Holy Sonnets: Batter my heart, three-person'd God
BY JOHN DONNE
Batter my heart, three-person'd God, for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend
Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
I, like an usurp'd town to another due,
Labor to admit you, but oh, to no end;
Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
But is captiv'd, and proves weak or untrue.
Yet dearly I love you, and would be lov'd fain,
But am betroth'd unto your enemy;
Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.

Same guy, presumably BEFORE becoming a minister. He LOVED sex. It was to him a spiritual coupling. You should read this one, TN--great pick up lines here.

Elegy XIX: To His Mistress Going to Bed
John Donne
Come, Madam, come, all rest my powers defy,
Until I labour, I in labour lie.
The foe oft-times having the foe in sight,
Is tir’d with standing though he never fight.
Off with that girdle, like heaven’s Zone glistering,
But a far fairer world encompassing.
Unpin that spangled breastplate which you wear,
That th’eyes of busy fools may be stopped there.
Unlace yourself, for that harmonious chime,
Tells me from you, that now it is bed time.
Off with that happy busk, which I envy,
That still can be, and still can stand so nigh.
Your gown going off, such beauteous state reveals,
As when from flowery meads th’hill’s shadow steals.
Off with that wiry Coronet and shew
The hairy Diadem which on you doth grow:
Now off with those shoes, and then safely tread
In this love’s hallow’d temple, this soft bed.
In such white robes, heaven’s Angels used to be
Received by men; Thou Angel bringst with thee
A heaven like Mahomet’s Paradise; and though
Ill spirits walk in white, we easily know,
By this these Angels from an evil sprite,
Those set our hairs, but these our flesh upright.
Licence my roving hands, and let them go,
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America! my new-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man mann’d,
My Mine of precious stones, My Empirie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!
To enter in these bonds, is to be free;
Then where my hand is set, my seal shall be.
Full nakedness! All joys are due to thee,
As souls unbodied, bodies uncloth’d must be,
To taste whole joys. Gems which you women use
Are like Atlanta’s balls, cast in men’s views,
That when a fool’s eye lighteth on a Gem,
His earthly soul may covet theirs, not them.
Like pictures, or like books’ gay coverings made
For lay-men, are all women thus array’d;
Themselves are mystic books, which only we
(Whom their imputed grace will dignify)
Must see reveal’d. Then since that I may know;
As liberally, as to a Midwife, shew
Thy self: cast all, yea, this white linen hence,
There is no penance due to innocence.
To teach thee, I am naked first; why then
What needst thou have more covering than a man?
Licence my roving hands, and let them go,
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America! my new-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man mann’d,
My Mine of precious stones, My Empirie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!

Everytime I think of me I touch myself..

Don't you have to take a blue pill first?

 

[TNHarley]

Link for teachers being biggest pedos?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Link for teachers being biggest pedos?

Again?

Pedophile Epidemic in American Public Schools and Universities – Dr. Rich Swier

Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?

 

[yiostheoy]

Here we go Blackrook OldLady
I have not found a statistical link between celibacy and pedophilia and/or homosexuality. However, i found this
http://humanismbyjoe.co/clerical-celibacy-and-pedophilic-priests/
You need to read that article. It lists many different doctors and knowledgeable people.
Richard Sipe - Wikipedia
Jay R. Feierman, M.D. Resume
David Finkelhor - Wikipedia
Crimes Against Children Research Center
They basically are stating what i said. I guess it would be pretty hard to get a "statistical link" for human nature and perversion. Probably have to follow someone from day one like "the truman show" lol
IDK i guess its more complicated than i thought. Im not saying you guys were right, though.
I think i found enough information to keep my current opinion on the matter. I mean, the people spent their life studying nature and the human mind. Hopefully, this is enough to at least make you think about it.
Fascinating IMO. Not just from a religious or sexual standpoint, but about nature in general. Suppression of natural instinct isnt good.
And here is a question for the catholics, why does your religion require celibacy when your God doesnt require it? Why do you require it, when your God made men to naturally crave sex and intimacy?

It looks like Pope Gregory is the one who imposed celibacy on Catholic Priests. I think it was a mistake. Popes make mistakes. This is why you always need to think for yourself, whether you are Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, etc.

When Did the Catholic Church Decide Priests Should Be Celibate?

 

[OldLady]

Link for teachers being biggest pedos?

Again?

Pedophile Epidemic in American Public Schools and Universities – Dr. Rich Swier

Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?

In U.S. schools last year, almost 800 school employees were prosecuted for sexual assault, nearly a third of them women.

In 2015, there were 3.6 million teachers in the U.S. Note that the statistic above cites "school employees," not only teachers, such as coaches. I did not find numbers for that, so let's go with the 3.6 million teachers.

.00022% Twenty-two hundred thousandths of one percent have been prosecuted as pedophiles.

Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy when it happens.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Link for teachers being biggest pedos?

Again?

Pedophile Epidemic in American Public Schools and Universities – Dr. Rich Swier

Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?

In U.S. schools last year, almost 800 school employees were prosecuted for sexual assault, nearly a third of them women.

In 2015, there were 3.6 million teachers in the U.S. Note that the statistic above cites "school employees," not only teachers, such as coaches. I did not find numbers for that, so let's go with the 3.6 million teachers.

.00022% Twenty-two hundred thousandths of one percent have been prosecuted as pedophiles.

Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy when it happens.

Still a greater percentage than the number of Catholic Priests.

The simple statement is that the vast majority of pedophiles are public school employees - documented facts.

However, the majority of public school employees are not pedophiles.

 

[OldLady]

Link for teachers being biggest pedos?

Again?

Pedophile Epidemic in American Public Schools and Universities – Dr. Rich Swier

Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?

In U.S. schools last year, almost 800 school employees were prosecuted for sexual assault, nearly a third of them women.

In 2015, there were 3.6 million teachers in the U.S. Note that the statistic above cites "school employees," not only teachers, such as coaches. I did not find numbers for that, so let's go with the 3.6 million teachers.

.00022% Twenty-two hundred thousandths of one percent have been prosecuted as pedophiles.

Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy when it happens.

Still a greater percentage than the number of Catholic Priests.

The simple statement is that the vast majority of pedophiles are public school employees - documented facts.

However, the majority of public school employees are not pedophiles.

What IS the percentage of pedophiles in the population as a whole? It has to be estimated, but:

But whether the prevalence using this definition is 0.5%, as James Cantor says or 1%, as Michael Seto says, you can be assured than in any large group of people - whether they be politicians, entertainers, or Catholic clergy - you are likely to find some paedophiles.
How many men are paedophiles? - BBC News

The OP has listed an article citing 7% of Catholic Priests are pedophiles. So, unless you need some assistance with basic math, explain how your statement can be correct?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Link for teachers being biggest pedos?

Again?

Pedophile Epidemic in American Public Schools and Universities – Dr. Rich Swier

Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?

In U.S. schools last year, almost 800 school employees were prosecuted for sexual assault, nearly a third of them women.

In 2015, there were 3.6 million teachers in the U.S. Note that the statistic above cites "school employees," not only teachers, such as coaches. I did not find numbers for that, so let's go with the 3.6 million teachers.

.00022% Twenty-two hundred thousandths of one percent have been prosecuted as pedophiles.

Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy when it happens.

Still a greater percentage than the number of Catholic Priests.

The simple statement is that the vast majority of pedophiles are public school employees - documented facts.

However, the majority of public school employees are not pedophiles.

What IS the percentage of pedophiles in the population as a whole? It has to be estimated, but:

But whether the prevalence using this definition is 0.5%, as James Cantor says or 1%, as Michael Seto says, you can be assured than in any large group of people - whether they be politicians, entertainers, or Catholic clergy - you are likely to find some paedophiles.
How many men are paedophiles? - BBC News

The OP has listed an article citing 7% of Catholic Priests are pedophiles. So, unless you need some assistance with basic math, explain how your statement can be correct?

Pretty simple really, take a look at students who claim to be subjected to sexual abuse by public school employees:

I'm not sure how you extracted your statistics, but peer reviewed studies show a far different story.

http://www.hofstra.edu/pdf/orsp_shakeshaft_spring03.pdf

 

[Blackrook]

My understanding is that most adults who molest children were molested when they were children. This has nothing at all to do with celibacy.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why would there be a correlation between celibacy and pedophilia? By definition those who have sex with children aren't celibate.

 

[Avatar4321]

Because Jesus was neutered at an early age by accident and never had carnal cravings...or ice cream for that matter..

Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

I have heard this, but I have never seen a parable supporting it..Do you have one?

I'm pretty sure that important tidbit of info would be Biblical

And yet the bible says nothing about his marriage status. Could it be because the bible was need meant to contain everything about Jesus?