CENTER STAGE

[ChrisL]

Discrimination is not recognized as freedom of religion.

Accepting perverted behavior is hardly discrimination.

"Perverted behavior" is in your eyes, not everyone's. Just look as it as denying someone you don't like to buy your product. THAT is discrimination.

I dont give a fuck if I dont want to serve you because I dont like the color of your eyes.
It's my fucken business.

But if the law in that state says it is discriminating, you are wrong...legally. Morally you can think what ever you want. But if I were you, I wouldn't get into a business.

Great! So you're going to run off Christian business.
Go right ahead,it'll fit right in with your 15 buck an hour min wage.

Most good Christian folks don't judge others like you. They run their businesses properly and within the confines of the laws in their states.

 

[OKTexas]

Blacks and gays have nothing in common here, blacks are black because of genetics, they have no choice in the matter, being gay is not genetic, it is lifestyle, actions and preferences. If you can ever prove gays are the way they are because of genetics, I'll be happy to revisit my opinion. But in the mean time, the rabbit hole our society has opened by granting rights on non-tangible, purely subjective standards is something I think we will live to regret.

People like you used the same arguments that you are using now to try to claim it was their religious "right" to discriminate against blacks too. It's been tried. It failed, just as it will this time. Sorry that you are so sick.

Keep talking your shit while not addressing what I actually said, carry on.

What I said is true. These arguments have been argued in court by bigots like you and have failed. You lose.

Tell me, what medical test is used to prove someone is naturally gay? Oh right, there isn't one, we're expected to grant them special rights and protections because they say so. No way that could ever go wrong.

You are going to carry this on, but I am about through. Some people may be naturally gay, I think. I have seen very young boys who seem to have feminine qualities. That is before they have a lick of sense about sexuality. What about "TOM BOYS " who turn out to be lesbians. Who knows...I really don't.

That's my point, no one really knows because there is no objective way to measure, yet you're all for granting them rights subjectively and telling everyone they have no choice but to accept it. That's no way to run a society.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh shut the hell up you stupid bimbo.
My net worth is more than you would realize in ten of your worthless lifetimes.
People like you are like dog shit on my shoe...something to wipe off in disgust.

Yeah sure. You here all day bitching about gay people. If you had any semblance of a life, you would be too busy to worry about it.

Like i've said repeatedly.
You're type means nothing in the big scheme of things.
I'll hang up my spurs and bail to another country and live like you've never lived. As will anyone with a lick of sense and some money.

Don't let the door....

Oh I wont, neither will a lot of businesses that dont agree with the liberal mindset.

I'm a conservative.

I'm not a conservative, but I'm not a liberal either. I am a centrist, BUT as soon as you disagree with one side or the other, you are the enemy!! Also childish.

 

[ChrisL]

People like you used the same arguments that you are using now to try to claim it was their religious "right" to discriminate against blacks too. It's been tried. It failed, just as it will this time. Sorry that you are so sick.

Keep talking your shit while not addressing what I actually said, carry on.

What I said is true. These arguments have been argued in court by bigots like you and have failed. You lose.

Tell me, what medical test is used to prove someone is naturally gay? Oh right, there isn't one, we're expected to grant them special rights and protections because they say so. No way that could ever go wrong.

You are going to carry this on, but I am about through. Some people may be naturally gay, I think. I have seen very young boys who seem to have feminine qualities. That is before they have a lick of sense about sexuality. What about "TOM BOYS " who turn out to be lesbians. Who knows...I really don't.

That's my point, no one really knows because there is no objective way to measure, yet you're all for granting them rights subjectively and telling everyone they have no choice but to accept it. That's no way to run a society.

Why shouldn't I want them to have equal rights? There is absolutely no reason why a taxpaying American citizen should not enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other taxpaying American citizen. Their sex lives are of no concern to me. It doesn't bother me because I am secure in my sexuality.

 

[Jackson]

People like you used the same arguments that you are using now to try to claim it was their religious "right" to discriminate against blacks too. It's been tried. It failed, just as it will this time. Sorry that you are so sick.

Keep talking your shit while not addressing what I actually said, carry on.

What I said is true. These arguments have been argued in court by bigots like you and have failed. You lose.

Tell me, what medical test is used to prove someone is naturally gay? Oh right, there isn't one, we're expected to grant them special rights and protections because they say so. No way that could ever go wrong.

You are going to carry this on, but I am about through. Some people may be naturally gay, I think. I have seen very young boys who seem to have feminine qualities. That is before they have a lick of sense about sexuality. What about "TOM BOYS " who turn out to be lesbians. Who knows...I really don't.

That's my point, no one really knows because there is no objective way to measure, yet you're all for granting them rights subjectively and telling everyone they have no choice but to accept it. That's no way to run a society.

I beg to differ. Wouldn't it be awful if everyone took their personal dislikes of people and said, I hate you and you and you but you can come in to my shop. In a society, we have to learn to get along. We might even find friends that you once subjectively denounced.

 

[Jackson]

You know what Texas? You might have friends that are gay but you don't know they are. They want your friendship so much that they keep it to themselves. In time one might have to let you know...I hope you keep their friendship.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is CENTER STAGE where the rule of law prevails. We are a nation of laws, not of men (not of righties or lefties or whatever). As such, the United States Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. People often disagree about the interpretation of the law and/or how it applies to a particular set of facts. When such a case or controversy exists, it is the duty of our courts to review and resolve the controversy. Some of us may not agree with some judicial decisions, but history has taught us that decisions based on error do not withstand the test of time and reason.

I would like to discuss the important issues of the day using the rule of law. Can you support your position based on the law and reason?

Let's start with the actual decision issued by a state agency in the case involving "Sweetcakes by Melissa". Rather than rely on media accounts or right wing or left wing hysteria, please read the decision yourself and think about it:

In the matter of Klein, dba Sweetcakes by Melissa

If you think the decision is based on legal error, where do you find the error? If the matter is appealed, what legal grounds or precedent will the reviewing court use to reverse the decision?

based on plain old common sense....I find it incredible that a State is in the business of more less awarding aggrieved parties monetary damages. I also find it shocking that the party deemed to have caused the harm be subject to criminal sanctions for not only payment, but if that party publicly discussed the case and the outcome.
In my opinion this is an outrageous over reach and abuse of power by a government.
In fact, reports have brought to light that certain individuals inside the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industry has carried on conversations with an LGBT advocacy group and that the Commissioner of the OBLI is an active supporter of LBGT rights.
Emails Raise Questions About Bias in Sweet Cakes Ruling
This is another example of liberal politicians and their appointees picking winners and loser based on their own personal political agendas.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Let's also study the opinion letter written by the Texas Attorney General, Ken Paxton, regarding the rights of government officials involved with issuing marriage licenses and performing marriage ceremonies:

OPINION NO. KP-0025

It would be helpful if you also read these Supreme Court decisions:

Cooper v. Aaron, 358 U.S. 1 (1958)

EEOC v. Abercrombie & Fitch

Evaluate the actual content of the Texas AG's opinion letter. Was it based on the law and reason and/or did it encourage lawlessness and divisiveness?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Furthermore what do you think members of the powerful elite are doing behind the curtain while the rest of us fall victim to stoked hate-mongering and divide and conquer tactics and squabble among ourselves. Who are benefitting from fueling the us vs. them, right vs. left dichotomy? Shouldn't we all stand on the center stage where the rule of law prevails?

Yes....I believe left wing political dogma demands that two things must occur in order for the left wing agenda to move froward.
One....A demon must be created.
Two, people are to be placed into groups. Those groups must be in constant disagreement. This is for the sole purpose of pitting those groups against one another.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I read the entire file. It did not change my mind except to say, in this case I believe the fine is too small. I hope other businesses learn from this experience and people will finally see that they are not better than others.

Fine? What fine?

 

[OKTexas]

Keep talking your shit while not addressing what I actually said, carry on.

What I said is true. These arguments have been argued in court by bigots like you and have failed. You lose.

Tell me, what medical test is used to prove someone is naturally gay? Oh right, there isn't one, we're expected to grant them special rights and protections because they say so. No way that could ever go wrong.

What "special privileges" do gay people have that other people do not? Oh, that's right, none. They just want to be treated fairly and like anyone else. The law applies to EVERYONE.

Why are you so concerned with a gay person's sex life? It is retarded, really.

Where did I use the word "privileges"? Also the only persons sex life I concern myself with is mine and I don't push it in anyone's face and demand they accept me for my preferences.

Okay, rights and "protections" then. Tell me, what "special rights and protections" does a gay person have that you do not?

Well apparently not. Lol.

How about the right to redefine terms that have stood for hundreds of thousands of years and completely reorder society just because they say so. No measurable objective standards, just because they say it should be so. Like I said earlier, what could possibly go wrong when it only takes a group of people to demand we do something just because that's the way they want it, screw everyone else.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I'll start with i'm not a church goer by any means.
But I do believe that people have a right to deny service to anyone they choose,whether it's religious convictions or the color of someones hair.
If public opinion of their refusal is negative to the point they go out of business then so be it. I see no reason why they couldnt have found another baker that would have happily made their cake and I believe the whole case was nothing more than an attempt to punish someone for their religious beliefs.
It's not the governments place to make these decisions.
And society has a way of leveling things in a way that suites the community.

As far as the legality aspect? I dont really care about it because this was purely political.

Actually, you;re wrong. Read the lawsuit and it's decision and you'll see they broke about three laws involving discrimination from a "place of public accommodation." It wasn't political, it was the law.

It was so political.. Absolutely political....

 

[Jackson]

I read the entire file. It did not change my mind except to say, in this case I believe the fine is too small. I hope other businesses learn from this experience and people will finally see that they are not better than others.

Fine? What fine?

The penalty of $135,000.

 

[OKTexas]

I hate Texas, There the people think they are better than anyone else. I have a deli store that sells condiments and the usual variety of things. You came in to buy my special barbecue sauce wearing your cowboy hat. I asked where you were from and you said from the Great State Of Texas. I told you to go back there and buy your lousy sauce. Wouldn't you feel I was discriminating against you personally?

I think we already know what they are going to say. Lol! "Oh, I would go somewhere else. I wouldn't mind being treated like crap at all!"

I feel sorry for the gay person who just goes to work and lives his/her life and tries to go to the local store to buy something and is turned away because he or she is "gay." That is just shitty to me. Anyone who would turn a person away like that is a shitty person, IMO.

Well, like the old saying goes, opinion are like assholes, everyone has one and most all of them stink.

Also, you are correct, I would go somewhere else because I learned many years ago not to sweat the small shit.

Just because it's small to YOU, a person who has not experienced being discriminated against and treated like crap, doesn't mean it is insignificant to another. Not everyone is the same.

Right, you've been discriminating against me and treating me like crap for the last several posts, I only let my temper get the best of me once and I apologize for that.

Why are you so willing to accept the word of gays and not anyone else.

I have to butt in here. She is not accepting the word of gays...she is following the law. Now if you want to talk about politics, religion in general, or baseball teams, we might have something in common. It isn't that she is enamoured with gays.

What is the law based on?

 

[ChrisL]

What I said is true. These arguments have been argued in court by bigots like you and have failed. You lose.

Tell me, what medical test is used to prove someone is naturally gay? Oh right, there isn't one, we're expected to grant them special rights and protections because they say so. No way that could ever go wrong.

What "special privileges" do gay people have that other people do not? Oh, that's right, none. They just want to be treated fairly and like anyone else. The law applies to EVERYONE.

Why are you so concerned with a gay person's sex life? It is retarded, really.

Where did I use the word "privileges"? Also the only persons sex life I concern myself with is mine and I don't push it in anyone's face and demand they accept me for my preferences.

Okay, rights and "protections" then. Tell me, what "special rights and protections" does a gay person have that you do not?

Well apparently not. Lol.

How about the right to redefine terms that have stood for hundreds of thousands of years and completely reorder society just because they say so. No measurable objective standards, just because they say it should be so. Like I said earlier, what could possibly go wrong when it only takes a group of people to demand we do something just because that's the way they want it, screw everyone else.

How so?

 

[OKTexas]

I read the entire file. It did not change my mind except to say, in this case I believe the fine is too small. I hope other businesses learn from this experience and people will finally see that they are not better than others.

Fine? What fine?

The penalty of $135,000.

You mean the payoff for the thin skinned faghadist?

 

[Jackson]

I think we already know what they are going to say. Lol! "Oh, I would go somewhere else. I wouldn't mind being treated like crap at all!"

I feel sorry for the gay person who just goes to work and lives his/her life and tries to go to the local store to buy something and is turned away because he or she is "gay." That is just shitty to me. Anyone who would turn a person away like that is a shitty person, IMO.

Well, like the old saying goes, opinion are like assholes, everyone has one and most all of them stink.

Also, you are correct, I would go somewhere else because I learned many years ago not to sweat the small shit.

Just because it's small to YOU, a person who has not experienced being discriminated against and treated like crap, doesn't mean it is insignificant to another. Not everyone is the same.

Right, you've been discriminating against me and treating me like crap for the last several posts, I only let my temper get the best of me once and I apologize for that.

Why are you so willing to accept the word of gays and not anyone else.

I have to butt in here. She is not accepting the word of gays...she is following the law. Now if you want to talk about politics, religion in general, or baseball teams, we might have something in common. It isn't that she is enamoured with gays.

What is the law based on?

Civil Rights I would assume.

 

[OKTexas]

Tell me, what medical test is used to prove someone is naturally gay? Oh right, there isn't one, we're expected to grant them special rights and protections because they say so. No way that could ever go wrong.

What "special privileges" do gay people have that other people do not? Oh, that's right, none. They just want to be treated fairly and like anyone else. The law applies to EVERYONE.

Why are you so concerned with a gay person's sex life? It is retarded, really.

Where did I use the word "privileges"? Also the only persons sex life I concern myself with is mine and I don't push it in anyone's face and demand they accept me for my preferences.

Okay, rights and "protections" then. Tell me, what "special rights and protections" does a gay person have that you do not?

Well apparently not. Lol.

How about the right to redefine terms that have stood for hundreds of thousands of years and completely reorder society just because they say so. No measurable objective standards, just because they say it should be so. Like I said earlier, what could possibly go wrong when it only takes a group of people to demand we do something just because that's the way they want it, screw everyone else.

How so?

How so what? My words are not ambiguous.

 

[OKTexas]

Well, like the old saying goes, opinion are like assholes, everyone has one and most all of them stink.

Also, you are correct, I would go somewhere else because I learned many years ago not to sweat the small shit.

Just because it's small to YOU, a person who has not experienced being discriminated against and treated like crap, doesn't mean it is insignificant to another. Not everyone is the same.

Right, you've been discriminating against me and treating me like crap for the last several posts, I only let my temper get the best of me once and I apologize for that.

Why are you so willing to accept the word of gays and not anyone else.

I have to butt in here. She is not accepting the word of gays...she is following the law. Now if you want to talk about politics, religion in general, or baseball teams, we might have something in common. It isn't that she is enamoured with gays.

What is the law based on?

Civil Rights I would assume.

Could you be more specific, I know of no civil right that protects preferences. Well except the ones recently pulled out of thin air.

 

[ChrisL]

Just because it's small to YOU, a person who has not experienced being discriminated against and treated like crap, doesn't mean it is insignificant to another. Not everyone is the same.

Right, you've been discriminating against me and treating me like crap for the last several posts, I only let my temper get the best of me once and I apologize for that.

Why are you so willing to accept the word of gays and not anyone else.

I have to butt in here. She is not accepting the word of gays...she is following the law. Now if you want to talk about politics, religion in general, or baseball teams, we might have something in common. It isn't that she is enamoured with gays.

What is the law based on?

Civil Rights I would assume.

Could you be more specific, I know of no civil right that protects preferences. Well except the ones recently pulled out of thin air.

It's not a preference. A person cannot control or help who he or she is sexually attracted to. You don't choose who you are attracted to. It just IS.