Cheney Calls for full Release of Memos

[Coyote]

It's more likely like this...since those that were there should know...
JEFFREY: Waterboarding saved L.A. - Washington Times
. "Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, he resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, 'Soon, you will know.' "


After he was waterboarded, KSM provided the CIA with information that enabled the U.S. government to close down a terror cell already "tasked" with flying a jet into a building in Los Angeles.

"You have informed us that the interrogation of KSM - once enhanced techniques were employed - led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles," the memo says, referring to information the CIA provided to the Justice Department.

FBI: Key Sept. 11 Leads Obtained Without Torture : NPR

Any independent verification of the CIA's claims? Ooops....no...they destroyed key videotapes didn't they?

The memo is from the DOJ, not the fucking CIA, libtard. Blair Obama's director of intelligence claims the enhanced interrogations provided useful intell.

Sweetheart, you need to calm down. You're overheating your brain. Turn on the fan, unplug the vents.

The DoJ became a political echo chamber for the Bush Administration. Why should I believe anything they claim when their job was to make a case for torture? I don't care what Blair says - since much of the evidence (in the form of videotapes) was destroyed - there isn't much of anything to verify those claims.

It also doesn't answer the important issues regarding the use of torture. Yes, torture does - at times - provide real info. But much more often it doesn't. It is also difficult to tell whether the iinformation given is valid or not valid and except for hypothetical situations - you are seldom sure the person you are torturing has what you want.

So, does the possibility that 1 person can provide some info justify torturing the other 99 innocent people who don't? Ah, a slippery slope....

 

[Coyote]

There is that damn pesky word severe, which the OLC determined that waterboarding didn't cause severe pain or suffering.

Really...well that's kind of strange. You see, before the OLC determined this, the U.S. considered waterboarding to be torture. Then - magically - MAGICALLY - Bush swept in and suddenly it got taken out, shook off, painted in pretty colors and turned into "enhanced interrogation techniques" and it wasn't torture any more!

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 

[Yurt]

has anybody actually addressed the thread topic....that is, why shouldn't obama release the documents cheney ask to be released....i mean he released some documents....and those documents paint only the picture he wants you to see, he is hiding documents once again....

why?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Really...well that's kind of strange. You see, before the OLC determined this, the U.S. considered waterboarding to be torture. Then - magically - MAGICALLY - Bush swept in and suddenly it got taken out, shook off, painted in pretty colors and turned into "enhanced interrogation techniques" and it wasn't torture any more!

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Kind of the same way that Obama swept in and shook off the 'war on terror' and painted in pretty colors calling it 'overseas contingency operation' and poof! it's not really a war at all.

 

[Coyote]

has anybody actually addressed the thread topic....that is, why shouldn't obama release the documents cheney ask to be released....i mean he released some documents....and those documents paint only the picture he wants you to see, he is hiding documents once again....

why?

...or why won't he release the videotaped interrogations?


Oops. He can't.


Guess Cheney doesn't want to let us see the complete picture either.

 

[Coyote]

Kind of the same way that Obama swept in and shook off the 'war on terror' and painted in pretty colors calling it 'overseas contingency operation' and poof! it's not really a war at all.

mhhhmmmm...and that's got what to do with torture?

 

[DiveCon]

They only CLAIMED they waterboarded 3 people.

Mind you, these are the same people that denied doing anything of the sort in the first place and destroyed videorecords of the sessions.

Can you see why I suspend belief at anything they say? Please do tell.

Yet Blair claims the enhanced interrogations provided useful information. He wasn't director when the enhanced interrogations were being used. As a matter of fact he is Obama's director.

Yet it took 183 waterboardings to ascertain no further useful information would be forthcoming...

Makes you wonder how many suspects were tortured before they came up with one that had some info? Natch, they don't provide those sort of stats do they?

which has already been proven to be a lie
keep trusting the MSM they NEVER lie to you

 

[DiveCon]

has anybody actually addressed the thread topic....that is, why shouldn't obama release the documents cheney ask to be released....i mean he released some documents....and those documents paint only the picture he wants you to see, he is hiding documents once again....

why?

...or why won't he release the videotaped interrogations?


Oops. He can't.


Guess Cheney doesn't want to let us see the complete picture either.

so, release all the memos
and you wont need the video tapes

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

mhhhmmmm...and that's got what to do with torture?

Not much, except that it describes the gullible nature of the cult following (such as yourself) of The Lord of the Idiots... and where they seek to redefine torture to mean: STRESS... for the purposes of outlawing it, in the name of HUMAN RIGHTS... thus promoting the interests of our terrorist enemy who doesn't even recognize the existance of HUMAN RIGHTS... and demonstrates such as through their singular tactic of MURDERING MASSIVE NUMBERS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE; in precisely the same way as renaming the US GWOT and the enemy of the US with innoculous, non-threatening descriptions.

Such simply provides for the culture to drop their guard, to become complacent and in so doing provide that secrative enemy with the means to further infiltrate the US population; which can and must finally result in promoting their means to hit us again, only with substantially greater efficacy.

It's subversion at the highest levels... and history will eventually note it as the point where America had lost any means to defend individual liberty, without destroying it...

 

[jreeves]

Or better yet, just ignore the fact that our government sentenced people for war crimes for waterboarding.

Things were different back then. It's not the same. Back then, it was other governments doing it. Now its our government doing it.

Why does it have to be so difficult?

Look at the details, the two types of waterboarding weren't the same. Would you like to know some of the other atrocities that the Japanese criminals committed?

Its irrelevant that they did other things. The Japs were prosecuted for waterboarding regardless of the method employed.

Why? Because the US government considered water torture to be torture. Simple as that.

Really, they were prosecuted for WATERBOARDING? Maybe you could post a link showing the international code that lies out the crime of WATERBOARDING?

 

[jreeves]

Look at the details, the two types of waterboarding weren't the same. Would you like to know some of the other atrocities that the Japanese criminals committed?

He's been told this numerous times in numerous threads that I've read. He'll never take the Obama blinders off, so save your breath.

Your correct that I've been told numerous times. Many folks seem to think that by just saying something over and over it establishes a fact. Sometimes they think that by using caps and hurling some insults it helps make their say-so seem like fact. I look at the evidence as opposed to what folks like you say. That evidence, published numerous times, establishes that the Japs were prosecuted for all forms of waterboarding torture.

If there was some evidence that the US martial courts in WWII excused certain more benign types of water boarding as not torture, I missed that.

Again what was the specific crime they were charged with? Not what legal pundits established....

 

[mash107]

Torture is inhumane, counterproductive and absolutely unconstitutional. The only right course of action would be to pursue legal action against any person responsible and allow the courts to sentence any of those guilty of authorizing and conducting torture. Despite the Obama administration's pillaging away at our Bill of Rights through his economic plans, they definitely shouldn't turn a blind eye to outright brutality. We were once a nation of laws, and need to return to that foundation. The Constitution was written for a reason.

 

[ABikerSailor]

If waterboarding isn't torture, then why did we declare it to be such during the Korean and Viet Nam wars?

Oh yeah......did anyone hear the news yesterday? Seems that the people that designed the torture program were CIA consultants that used to be SERE school instructors.

Even the CIA scientists and doctors didn't want to do it, so the government went out and found these 2 and those are the ones that engineered the GITMO torture program.

 

[HUGGY]

George Washington was against any kind of torture even though the british engaged in it regularly.

Good enough for Washington...good enough for me. We as Americans do not torture PERIOD!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Look at the details, the two types of waterboarding weren't the same. Would you like to know some of the other atrocities that the Japanese criminals committed?

He's been told this numerous times in numerous threads that I've read. He'll never take the Obama blinders off, so save your breath.

Your correct that I've been told numerous times. Many folks seem to think that by just saying something over and over it establishes a fact.

ROFLMNAO... SWEET MOTHER! You actually stated a fact... CONGRATS! Sadly, that is the only tactic from which you seem able to draw... in nearly every POST!

Post after post, I personally have refuted your would-be argument point for POINT and you simply return to ignore the argument, cherry pick some phrase, strip it of contest and post some mindless quip, which you feel sustains your position.

Here's a clue... your position is vacuous; your argument specious, you're reasoning spurious and your conclusions founded upon unaologetic ignorance.

Sometimes they think that by using caps and hurling some insults it helps make their say-so seem like fact.

No sis, that is your flaccid little rationalization, which you hope will set aside the personal humiliation that you're seemingly insufficiently gifted to recognize...

I look at the evidence as opposed to what folks like you say.

That is clearly not true... IF you HAD looked at the evidence there is absolutely NO WAY you could return with these conclusions... Odds are, that what you're looking at are radical leftist blogs or other such disinformation oriented websites which purpetuate this mindless nonsense...

That evidence, published numerous times, establishes that the Japs were prosecuted for all forms of waterboarding torture.

Nope... there is not a single instance wherein ANY Japanese was prosecuted for All types of waterboarding... as there is ONLY ONE TYPE of waterboarding... with the distinction being the SEVERITY WITH THICH IT IS APPLIED AND THE CAUTION TAKEN TO PROTECT THE INDIVIDUAL to which it is being applied.

Again, you want to equate the VICIOUS application used by the Japanese which resulted in the DEATHS of THOUSANDS OF US TROOPS... to the exacting and highly supervised protocols used by US Interrogators.

Which is beyond absurd...

If there was some evidence that the US martial courts in WWII excused certain more benign types of water boarding as not torture, I missed that.

There are none, because none were applied... but again the reasoning of THIS facet of your argument is invalid... it presumes that the courts were privy to every instance of waterboarding, recognized numerous techniques; the distinctive severity of application of each and determined that all techniques and levels of severity were equitable and FORBIDDEN FOREVER, and without regard to the reasonign which might otherwise sustain their justifiable usage... and in so doing, this skewed reasoning assumes that the courts recognized that the Japanese were justified in their overall treatment of US troops, but found waterboarding to be an exception; and prosecuting those who otherwise treated the Allied prisoners fairly and humanely, but crossed a line with waterboarding...

When in reality the Japanese were barbarians who inflicted unspeakable cruelty onto their prisoners, without regard to WHO they were... with the intent to be little more than to punish their opposition throughthe sadistic use of ACTUAL TORTURE; torture that routinely resulted in the death of those who were subjected to it.
.
.
.

Which, once again, brings us to your argument being eviscerated... leaving KNOW where to turn; no facet or measure of that which you advanced in THIS farce, can reasonably be used to sustain an advance on ANY LEVEL...

Yet, should you return, you'll do so to do little more than ignore the refutation and repeat your long discredited assertions... proving again that "Many folks seem to think that by just saying something over and over it establishes a fact."

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

If waterboarding isn't torture, then why did we declare it to be such during the Korean and Viet Nam wars?

Oh yeah......did anyone hear the news yesterday? Seems that the people that designed the torture program were CIA consultants that used to be SERE school instructors.

Even the CIA scientists and doctors didn't want to do it, so the government went out and found these 2 and those are the ones that engineered the GITMO torture program.

What torure program is that? Having been a student and a SERE School instructor; and of course in so doing, was trained by the CIA; meaning that of the two of us, I am the only one which has actually BEEN THERE and DONE THAT... I'm not aware of ANY Torture Program... used by the US Military.

What we use are stress techniques which induce a desire to be forcoming with sought after information, during coersive interrogation... which, FTR, have a 100% efficacy. Meaning that IF the target is in possession of the information being sought, there is a 100% certainty that they will pass on that information.

So what is this "Torture Program" to which you're referring?

 

[jreeves]

Look at the details, the two types of waterboarding weren't the same. Would you like to know some of the other atrocities that the Japanese criminals committed?

Its irrelevant that they did other things. The Japs were prosecuted for waterboarding regardless of the method employed.

Why? Because the US government considered water torture to be torture. Simple as that.

Really, they were prosecuted for WATERBOARDING? Maybe you could post a link showing the international code that lies out the crime of WATERBOARDING?

In other words, there crime wasn't WATERBOARDING, it was the details of how the waterboarding was carried out, that caused for instance, CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, which is an actual international crime.

See here is what I referring to;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_against_humanity
The International Military Tribunal for the Far East (IMTFE), also known as the Tokyo Trial, was convened to try the leaders of the Empire of Japan for three types of crimes: "Class A" (crimes against peace), "Class B" (war crimes), and "Class C" (crimes against humanity), committed during World War II. The first refers to their joint conspiracy to start and wage the war, and the latter two refer to atrocities including the Nanking Massacre.

The legal basis for the trial was established by the Charter of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (CIMTFE) that was proclaimed on 19 January 1946. The tribunal convened on May 3, 1946, and was adjourned on November 12, 1948.

A panel of eleven judges presided over the IMTFE, one each from victorious Allied powers (United States, Republic of China, Soviet Union, United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Provisional Government of the French Republic, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, British India, and the Philippines).

War crimes charges against more junior personnel were dealt with separately, in other cities throughout Far East Asia, such as the Nanjing War Crimes Tribunal and the Khabarovsk War Crimes Trials.

 

[HUGGY]

Former Vice President Cheney Calls for full Release of Memos Showing Results of Interrogation Efforts

Former Vice President Cheney says he knows how successful the interrogation techniques were in collecting intelligence for the United States and wants that information to be released to the public as well as the legal memos explaining the decision to allow the heavily criticized methods.

Now that the memos showing the rulings of interrogation techniques have been released, the Obama administration should release additional documents that show what the interrogations yielded, and he wants the American people to understand that too.

"I acted primarily because of the exceptional circumstances that surrounded these memos," Obama said, adding that he has "fought to protect the integrity of classified information in the past and I will do so in the future."

Here’s McCain on the Memo release: "(The release) doesn't help America's image, does not help us address the issue and I think it was a serious mistake," McCain said.

Also today, from President Obama

Senior members of the Bush administration who approved the use of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation measures could face prosecution, President Obama disclosed today .

He said the use of torture reflected America "losing our moral bearings".

For the first time, today, he opened up the possibility that those in the administration who gave the go-ahead for the use of waterboarding could be prosecuted.

Who cares what The Dick wants. He is irrelevant. He is a criminal. He has nothing coming.

 

[Iriemon]

He's been told this numerous times in numerous threads that I've read. He'll never take the Obama blinders off, so save your breath.

Your correct that I've been told numerous times. Many folks seem to think that by just saying something over and over it establishes a fact.

ROFLMNAO... SWEET MOTHER! You actually stated a fact... CONGRATS! Sadly, that is the only tactic from which you seem able to draw... in nearly every POST!

Post after post, I personally have refuted your would-be argument point for POINT and you simply return to ignore the argument, cherry pick some phrase, strip it of contest and post some mindless quip, which you feel sustains your position.

Here's a clue... your position is vacuous; your argument specious, you're reasoning spurious and your conclusions founded upon unaologetic ignorance.

That is clearly not true... IF you HAD looked at the evidence there is absolutely NO WAY you could return with these conclusions... Odds are, that what you're looking at are radical leftist blogs or other such disinformation oriented websites which purpetuate this mindless nonsense...

That evidence, published numerous times, establishes that the Japs were prosecuted for all forms of waterboarding torture.

Nope... there is not a single instance wherein ANY Japanese was prosecuted for All types of waterboarding... as there is ONLY ONE TYPE of waterboarding... with the distinction being the SEVERITY WITH THICH IT IS APPLIED AND THE CAUTION TAKEN TO PROTECT THE INDIVIDUAL to which it is being applied.

There are none, because none were applied... but again the reasoning of THIS facet of your argument is invalid... it presumes that the courts were privy to every instance of waterboarding, recognized numerous techniques; the distinctive severity of application of each and determined that all techniques and levels of severity were equitable and FORBIDDEN FOREVER, and without regard to the reasonign which might otherwise sustain their justifiable usage... and in so doing, this skewed reasoning assumes that the courts recognized that the Japanese were justified in their overall treatment of US troops, but found waterboarding to be an exception; and prosecuting those who otherwise treated the Allied prisoners fairly and humanely, but crossed a line with waterboarding...

When in reality the Japanese were barbarians who inflicted unspeakable cruelty onto their prisoners, without regard to WHO they were... with the intent to be little more than to punish their opposition throughthe sadistic use of ACTUAL TORTURE; torture that routinely resulted in the death of those who were subjected to it.
.

Your blather is meaningless. You've proved you make up shit and make assumptions about stuff you know nothing about. Why should I or anyone believe you? Your assertions of "fact" hold as much value as a bag of farts.


Thanks for your opinion. I disagree with your opinion as well as your effort to justify torture by America, discrediting and soiling our nation as if it was some two bit dictatorship. Tell us again how drowning someone isn't punishment or torture. Himmler would have loved you.

Now go and neg rep me again. Sign of the loser.

 

[DiveCon]

Former Vice President Cheney Calls for full Release of Memos Showing Results of Interrogation Efforts

Former Vice President Cheney says he knows how successful the interrogation techniques were in collecting intelligence for the United States and wants that information to be released to the public as well as the legal memos explaining the decision to allow the heavily criticized methods.

Now that the memos showing the rulings of interrogation techniques have been released, the Obama administration should release additional documents that show what the interrogations yielded, and he wants the American people to understand that too.

"I acted primarily because of the exceptional circumstances that surrounded these memos," Obama said, adding that he has "fought to protect the integrity of classified information in the past and I will do so in the future."

Here’s McCain on the Memo release: "(The release) doesn't help America's image, does not help us address the issue and I think it was a serious mistake," McCain said.

Also today, from President Obama

Senior members of the Bush administration who approved the use of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation measures could face prosecution, President Obama disclosed today .

He said the use of torture reflected America "losing our moral bearings".

For the first time, today, he opened up the possibility that those in the administration who gave the go-ahead for the use of waterboarding could be prosecuted.

Who cares what The Dick wants. He is irrelevant. He is a criminal. He has nothing coming.

he's a criminal?
really?
so just saying it makes it so

huggy is a criminal