Chris Christie: U.S. Must Arm Ukraine Until They Win the War

[toomuchtime_]

Not exactly that. I am suggesting that Ukraine is doomed no matter which side of the bench wins eventually. Your side supports Ukraine in the hopes it can 'defeat' Russia in this war.

When Ukraine says 'Sorry, guys, we have to stop now. It has taken too much already'. Your side 'Okays, lads, it is your choice. We return to our business, deal with Russia by yourself now on'.

So, the outcome is the same. Reds, blues, one hell.

First off, it's not reds and blues. Half the Republicans have been voting with the Democrats in Congress on aid to Ukraine. Second, of course the US wants Ukraine to win, but with people like Trump and his fellow travelers arguing that continued aid to Ukraine will end up with US soldiers being sent there to fight Russians or that this could lead to a nuclear war or WWIII, the government has to be mindful of what the public perception of what weapons it sends is.

If Ukraine decides to stop fighting, then Russia will take over and there really won't be much anyone can do to help.

 

[Blaster]

These warmonger candidates can go fuck themselves.

 

[ESay]

First off, it's not reds and blues. Half the Republicans have been voting with the Democrats in Congress on aid to Ukraine. Second, of course the US wants Ukraine to win, but with people like Trump and his fellow travelers arguing that continued aid to Ukraine will end up with US soldiers being sent there to fight Russians or that this could lead to a nuclear war or WWIII, the government has to be mindful of what the public perception of what weapons it sends is.

If Ukraine decides to stop fighting, then Russia will take over and there really won't be much anyone can do to help.

Yeah, that is the main difference between contemporary 'freedom fighters' and the ones of say 50 years ago. The former ones had the courage to fight the 'commies' in Korea and Vietnam, or stand up to them in Germany or Cuba.

Now.. 'leading from behind' as Obama once said. And not only him, but other cowards like Merkel, Sarkozy, Hollande, Cameron etc. This great policy led to the biggest war in Europe since the WWII, okay.

Ukraine won't be able to took back all the territories, it is a given. And it won't be able to formally join NATO because of that (that is not the only reason, but whatever). And what to do in this situation to prevent the Putin regime to start another war in 3, 5 or 10 years? I don't know, but I see only two options:

1. Security guarantees from the West (or let's be more clear - the US) for the government held parts of Ukraine that would closely resemble the article 5 of the NATO Charter

2. Declare Ukraine as another US foreign policy's failure, cut looses, let Europe take in some additional millions of Ukrainian refugees, and forget about that part of the world once and for all.

And now, what are the odds that the first option will come true? 1% out of 100, maybe.

 

[JoeB131]

The Ukraine was a democracy until we bribed the military coup in 2014.
Since all ethnic Russian candidates have been murdered or exiles, there have been no real elections since.
So the Ukraine is about the LEAST democratic country on the planet.
They are controlled by the Azov Battalion racist/fascists, intent on genocide and WWIII.

In contrast, Russia has not been "communist" for over 30 years now.
It has vastly more freedom than the US does.
It has public health care and guaranteed housing.

There's no risk of Putin being voted out of office after 20 years in power, and he changed the constitution to stay in power indefinitely... that's not anywhere near a "Democracy".

The Ukrainian people overthrew Yanukovych because he broke his promises to forge closer economic ties and ordered his troops to shoot demonstrators.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yeah, that is the main difference between contemporary 'freedom fighters' and the ones of say 50 years ago. The former ones had the courage to fight the 'commies' in Korea and Vietnam, or stand up to them in Germany or Cuba.

Now.. 'leading from behind' as Obama once said. And not only him, but other cowards like Merkel, Sarkozy, Hollande, Cameron etc. This great policy led to the biggest war in Europe since the WWII, okay.

Ukraine won't be able to took back all the territories, it is a given. And it won't be able to formally join NATO because of that (that is not the only reason, but whatever). And what to do in this situation to prevent the Putin regime to start another war in 3, 5 or 10 years? I don't know, but I see only two options:

1. Security guarantees from the West (or let's be more clear - the US) for the government held parts of Ukraine that would closely resemble the article 5 of the NATO Charter

2. Declare Ukraine as another US foreign policy's failure, cut looses, let Europe take in some additional millions of Ukrainian refugees, and forget about that part of the world once and for all.

And now, what are the odds that the first option will come true? 1% out of 100, maybe.

On the one hand you recommend the Ukrainians stop fighting because the war is unwinnable and on the other you are outraged that the US will not offer to send its soldiers to fight and die in what you consider to be an unwinnable war. I'm sure Putin wishes there were many more like you in Ukraine.

There are no givens in this war. On Feb 23, 2022, it was a given that Putin would quickly gain control of all of Ukraine. Clearly, it was a given to Putin who didn't even bother to gain up to date intelligence before starting the war. It was a given to Putin that the West would not do anything more than scold him again for invading Ukraine, and it was a given to him that he could break to will of Europe to oppose him because of its dependence on Russian oil and gas. There is no rational basis for believing that the combination of battlefield losses and the economic and diplomatic pressures from the rest of the world can't force Russia to leave Ukraine.

There is a Ukraine today because of all the help it has gotten from the US and other allies despite the fact that everyone thought this would be impossible on Feb 23, 2022.

 

[ESay]

On the one hand you recommend the Ukrainians stop fighting because the war is unwinnable and on the other you are outraged that the US will not offer to send its soldiers to fight and die in what you consider to be an unwinnable war. I'm sure Putin wishes there were many more like you in Ukraine.

There are no givens in this war. On Feb 23, 2022, it was a given that Putin would quickly gain control of all of Ukraine. Clearly, it was a given to Putin who didn't even bother to gain up to date intelligence before starting the war. It was a given to Putin that the West would not do anything more than scold him again for invading Ukraine, and it was a given to him that he could break to will of Europe to oppose him because of its dependence on Russian oil and gas. There is no rational basis for believing that the combination of battlefield losses and the economic and diplomatic pressures from the rest of the world can't force Russia to leave Ukraine.

There is a Ukraine today because of all the help it has gotten from the US and other allies despite the fact that everyone thought this would be impossible on Feb 23, 2022.

No, I am outraged by you hypocrites who says a lot about 'supporting Ukraine as long as it takes', but keep in mind 'as long as Ukraine provides meat for the meat grinder'.

There were many 'givens' in the Feb 2022, indeed. But you guys remind me of a player who after initial successes bets more and more and lose everything afterwards.

I have already posted my views about how this war should end. So, no need to repeat them once again.

 

[marvin martian]

The RINO elaborates winning the war means being able to continue the money laundering, enrich the US defense contractors and refuse to seek a diplomatic solution. Christie tips his hat to the global cabal.

Christie: U.S. Must Arm Ukraine Until They Win the War -- Trump Is Putin's Puppet

Former Gov. Chris Christie (R-NJ) said Wednesday on CNN's "The Lead" that the U.S. should arm Ukraine until they win the war against Russia. | Clips

www.breitbart.com

He warmongers like a DemoKKKrat.

 

[toomuchtime_]

No, I am outraged by you hypocrites who says a lot about 'supporting Ukraine as long as it takes', but keep in mind 'as long as Ukraine provides meat for the meat grinder'.

There were many 'givens' in the Feb 2022, indeed. But you guys remind me of a player who after initial successes bets more and more and lose everything afterwards.

I have already posted my views about how this war should end. So, no need to repeat them once again.

Right, your view is for Ukraine to stop fighting and to abandon millions of Ukrainians to a brutal Russian dictatorship and then blame the US for it.

 

[ESay]

Right, your view is for Ukraine to stop fighting and to abandon millions of Ukrainians to a brutal Russian dictatorship and then blame the US for it.

Something tells me that your wishes to turn it to a burned down wasteland for your amusement isn't way better.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Something tells me that your wishes to turn it to a burned down wasteland for your amusement isn't way better.

Probably the same thing that makes you want to surrender to Putin.

 

[Silver Cat]

Something tells me that your wishes to turn it to a burned down wasteland for your amusement isn't way better.

It's up to you - to become another Georgia, loose some territory, change the government and put the current one in jail (like Saakashvili), i.e. became non-hostile but more or less independent state, or to become another Chechnya - be occupied by Russia, and, after decade of terror - become the most patriotic region of the Russian Federation.
As they say: "We'll teach you to love Rodina".

 

[toomuchtime_]

It's up to you - to become another Georgia, loose some territory, change the government and put the current one in jail (like Saakashvili), i.e. became non-hostile but more or less independent state, or to become another Chechnya - be occupied by Russia, and, after decade of terror - become the most patriotic region of the Russian Federation.
As they say: "We'll teach you to love Rodina".
View attachment 819754

Fortunately for the sake of the Ukrainian people, it is not up to ESay.

 

[Silver Cat]

Well, what can be said after all these 'debates'. One side of the bench, let's call them 'red', wants to stop this war by allowing Putin to have his own backyard with his rules over it.

The other side, let's call them 'blue', are eager to support Ukraine as long as it provides disposable heroes. But it seems that after that ends without much success, all they support will vanish in thin air.

Ukraine has great allies, without a doubt.

Do you know that story about King Solomon and two supposed mothers of a child?
Ukraine is this child. Red team wants to see you alive, blue team wants to see you dead.

 

[Silver Cat]

Fortunately for the sake of the Ukrainian people, it is not up to ESay.

It depends. You want Ukrainians dying for Biden's and Zelenskiy's money, but many of Ukrainians would prefer to live.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It depends. You want Ukrainians dying for Biden's and Zelenskiy's money, but many of Ukrainians would prefer to live.

I support Ukraine's refusal to submit to Russian imperialism, and you are an enthusiastic supporter of Russian imperialism.

 

[Silver Cat]

I support Ukraine's refusal to submit to Russian imperialism, and you are an enthusiastic supporter of Russian imperialism.

Ukrainians, as well as Russians and Americans don't care much about political issues. They do care much about their safety and their wealth. Many Ukrainians, including Zelenskiy himself, lived and worked in Russia. It's not a big deal for them, as well as many Canadians can accept say, annexation of Canada by the USA.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Ukrainians, as well as Russians and Americans don't care much about political issues. They do care much about their safety and their wealth. Many Ukrainians, including Zelenskiy himself, lived and worked in Russia. It's not a big deal for them, as well as many Canadians can accept say, annexation of Canada by the USA.

Even for you, an especially stupid post.

 

[ESay]

Probably the same thing that makes you want to surrender to Putin.

Even for you it is a dishonest post.

 

[ESay]

It's up to you - to become another Georgia, loose some territory, change the government and put the current one in jail (like Saakashvili), i.e. became non-hostile but more or less independent state, or to become another Chechnya - be occupied by Russia, and, after decade of terror - become the most patriotic region of the Russian Federation.
As they say: "We'll teach you to love Rodina".
View attachment 819754

No, Ukraine should cut any ties with Russia once and for all. The Khmelnytsky mistake should be corrected.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Even for you it is a dishonest post.

There is nothing dishonest about it. You have wanted to surrender much of Ukraine and abandon millions of Ukrainians to Putin nearly from the start of the war.