Christian friends of gays and lesbians

[Madeline]

Naw, not every day. Just when it appeals to me.

 

[bodecea]

Now that was an example of christian friendship if ever there was one!

hey bitch, I don't neg you everyday. You do it to me. So you are a big fat assed bitch and a fucking hypocrite to boot. Kerry ON now.

Let me make sure I have this correctly...you call her such names because of some negative rep of your anonymous nic on a message board? It is such a devastation to your life that you would do that?

 

[WillowTree]

Naw, not every day. Just when it appeals to me.

bring it on,, just don't try to convince people you ain't a giant assed bitch..

 

[WillowTree]

Now that was an example of christian friendship if ever there was one!

hey bitch, I don't neg you everyday. You do it to me. So you are a big fat assed bitch and a fucking hypocrite to boot. Kerry ON now.

Let me make sure I have this correctly...you call her such names because of some negative rep of your anonymous nic on a message board? It is such a devastation to your life that you would do that?

and you life depends on your commenting on my behavior?? I call her a bitch cause she is one. oh.. and btw she thinks I'm one too.. get over it dudeette

 

[Madeline]

Willow, what's up with your obsession with my ass?

 

[CurveLight]

Asking someone to marshal facts in support of their POV might be persuasive to a few. Most times, it is better to use them yourself....

As Valerie has pointed out, there is (some) fear that someday, a judge somewhere will step on religious freedom at the behest of GLBT people regarding weddings. Much as I'd like to, I cannot tell her "that will never happen", as judges can be unpredictable and stupid. I did say such action would be unconstitutional and corrected by any appeals court.

Is this a blind alley, concealing latent bigotry in Valerie? I don't think so. Many, many people have expressed similar anxieties and I think it's better to air them out than it is to dismiss them as stupid.

Saying it is a concern is one position. Saying the fear justifies the denial justifies the discrimination is bigotry.

 

[Madeline]

CurveLight, Immie supports gay marriage and feels more christians should do so as well. He ain't perfect, but I dun think he's Public Enemy No. One.

 

[Immanuel]

I don't think it's fair to label Immie a bigot. I think his POV is based on faulty reasoning, but his motives are not hateful. He seems like a genuinely nice person to me.

I agree with that...I just wish he wouldn't tell untruths about what my position on religious marriage is.

I did not come close to doing that. I pointed out what your position appears to be to me. I was trying to open the door for you to tell us exactly what you do want. If I am incorrect in my assumptions then I would appreciate your pointing out exactly where I am wrong.

You see, I said "it seems to me...", that is not making a statement about your position. It is simply stating what I am understanding you have been saying all along. I'd love it, if you were a little more clear in your position.

Your short one or two lines (which generally are more of an attack on people than a statement of your point of view) leave a lot to be desired when it comes to understanding what you actually want.

Also, as I have stated repeatedly in this thread, I do not believe all homosexuals will go after the church when the next step is arrived at. I do, however, believe that there are some activists like the couple in New Jersey that will attempt to force religious institutions to comply with their desires.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Bodecea, the man...not boedicca, the whiny bitchy woman. (I'm pretty sure bodecea is a guy, anyway.)

If so, then I have been reading her posts wrong for a heck of a long time.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Bodecea, the man...not boedicca, the whiny bitchy woman. (I'm pretty sure bodecea is a guy, anyway.)

I like boedicca...Boedecea is rude, insulting and well, word's I'd rather not say.

She is not always insulting. We've had some pretty decent discussions between us. Something just didn't go well this time around.

Immie

 

[Madeline]

Bodecea, the man...not boedicca, the whiny bitchy woman. (I'm pretty sure bodecea is a guy, anyway.)

If so, then I have been reading her posts wrong for a heck of a long time.

Immie

It appears I was wrong, wrong wrong about bodecea's gender. She's a chick. But this confuses me, Immie, as we both know...

 

[Immanuel]

I don't think it's fair to label Immie a bigot. I think his POV is based on faulty reasoning, but his motives are not hateful. He seems like a genuinely nice person to me.

I've followed the dialogue and what I've concluded is Immie is a bigot on the grounds he does not want gays to have the title "Marriage" because he sees that as wrong. He has not been able to support his accusation that gays want gay marriage just so they can sue churches to force them to marry gays and he can't even admit he failed to support it. He cited two cases and neither were churches and neither showed where a church was forced to marry anyone. I agree he is generally a nice guy but that doesn't mean he isn't a bigot. They don't all go around screaming like fucking dickidiots.

the grounds he does not want gays to have the title "Marriage" because he sees that as wrong.

You have concluded incorrectly. I have not said in this thread that it is wrong. In fact, I have repeatedly stated that if a church or religious institution is willing to ordain homosexuals or marry them, I support their decision to do so.

He has not been able to support his accusation that gays want gay marriage just so they can sue churches to force them to marry gays and he can't even admit he failed to support it

I never even attempted to answer your ridiculous "challenge". Both of my links were in response to posts that had occurred before your "challenge". I am and was unwilling to spend time trying to find any thing more in response to such a ridiculous "challenge". I have proven that it has happened at least once. You cannot guarantee that gay activists won't try it again in the future.

And I have been very careful throughout this thread to make sure that it is evident that I am not claiming every homosexual will make it their goal in life to force anything upon the church. I believe their are activists that despise the church so much that they will and using the term "Marriage" will give them legal grounds to attempt to do so. I have not said they will win but I suspect that eventually they will.

Politicians are doing their best to shred the constitution every day. I believe that it is living on borrowed time.

Immie

 

[logical4u]

Still trying to "convert" Christians to another religion: not believing in G*d, but in people, Sky? Use those passive aggressive methods to act non-threatening, all-accepting (except in the case of Christians): when someone clearly states there is not an overt hatred of homosexuals, twist the words to say anything other than full blown acceptance and agreement IS hatred. How many threads have you started now attacking Christians? Maybe, you are the one that hates all Christians and agree with the evil one that all Christians should be killed, or converted.
Hopefully, the other people that read your threads will catch on, soon. Just another person that despises all people that embrace Christianity, and would tell them how to live their lives better (after all, being ALL-SEEING, ALL-KNOWING must have some perks, right?).
Some of us believe that you can choose to believe whatever you want to, as an individual (as long as you obey the Constitutional laws, and do not infringe on others), that is LIBERTY. A Christian that disagrees with you and chooses to live their life, differently does not equal hatred for all things different. Yeshua loved everyone, even those that were scourging Him, and hanging Him on the cross; all we can do, is follow His example.
It appears that you are the one with the 'hang-ups' and bigotry. I will pray for you.

 

[Immanuel]

I'm familiar with it which is why I weighed the evidence before making the charge.

Really?

I hate the fact that the church discriminates against the homosexual community. I do not at all believe that Christ would behave in the manner that the "Religious Right" behaves in this regard. It sickens me to no end.

On the other hand, I fear what will happen when the state tears down the wall of separation.

I guess you missed the posts where he said he does not want gays to have gay marriage because then they can force churches to marry them.

Nothing like twisting my words around.

I have repeatedly stated that I want the government out of the marriage business and to allow religious institutions to decide for themselves.

Immie

 

[Kat]

Bodecea, the man...not boedicca, the whiny bitchy woman. (I'm pretty sure bodecea is a guy, anyway.)

Not sure why you said that Madeline, but I don't find boedicca whiny and bitchy at all. Granted, she is no pushover....

 

[Phoenix]

Christians think homosexuality is wrong, immoral and sinful. That doesn't seem real friendly to me.

There are lots of things that Christians are taught are wrong, immoral and sinful. Almost everything that may possibly be fun, in fact. Yet Christians are still friends with people who do all those things.

The ones who aren't hypocritical, that is. Mostly cuz they do the same stuff - just in secret.

 

[Immanuel]

It's not threatening to the separation of church and state because marriage is not a religious institution. If it is a religious institution and since the State legally recognizes marriages that means the line you "fear" has already been crossed.

Doh!

(Marriage is not a religious institution.)

I was actually arguing on the other side of that issue with Immie. D'oh!

I thought you read the thread?



Still doesn't make him a BIGOT now does it ?

Ummm......if someone disagrees so deeply with a group correctly using a term simply because of gender then yes that qualifies as bigotry. He disagrees so much with the term gay marriage he is willing to force a superfluous legal nightmare of terminology and try to justify his position on the fear some gays are so evil they are using this as a means to an end to attack churches.

Even when kindly asked to prove his fear justified by citing two or three cases where any church has been forced to marry anyone he comes up with absolutely no examples and instead tries to use a photography business and a church owned pavillion that was rented to the public as his evidence. Not only did neither case force a church to marry anyone but neither example was about a fucking church. When people base objections on positions void of facts they are desperately seeking a way to legitimize their bigotry.

Once again, because you seemed to have missed the point. My examples had nothing to do with your challenge. They were both in response to posts of other people from before your challenge and I had not even read your challenge when I posted the links. However, the second link I provided does in fact correspond to your challenge in that the organization that was sued was grounds run by a church group and the lawsuit was based upon the churches opposition to homosexual marriage.

The fact that there are not two or three easy to find examples does not indicate that future attempts will not be made. Not only that, but Homosexual Marriage was not legal all that long meaning that there was little time for feathers to be ruffled at the time.

Also, the Elaine Photography example is more proof that some homosexuals believe that they have the right to force Christians to comply with their wishes. Although that too was not given in response to your challenge, it is still evidence that when gay marriage is finally legalized there will be efforts by some to force churches to give in completely. Whether or not those efforts will ultimately succeed is unknown, but there is one thing certain, it will be expensive to defend against.

Immie

 

[Kat]

Christians think homosexuality is wrong, immoral and sinful. That doesn't seem real friendly to me.

There are lots of things that Christians are taught are wrong, immoral and sinful. Almost everything that may possibly be fun, in fact. Yet Christians are still friends with people who do all those things.

The ones who aren't hypocritical, that is. Mostly cuz they do the same stuff - just in secret.

Or just the fact that as Christians we realize we are all sinners. Might not do the exact same stuff, but we all do something.

 

[Immanuel]

Seems to me being harsh to Immie is counter-productve. He is mistaken, but more likely to listen and learn if you're not busy calling him a bigot. Don't your friends ever make mistakes, CurveLight?

Thank you.

I post in these kinds of threads in order to learn.

I've been reading CL's posts and I understand that he disagrees with me and ultimately he may be right.

However, I don't think so, and the reason for that is probably my feelings regarding extremists. I don't think legalizing gay marriage will satisfy the extremists. I think they will want more than simple legalization. They will want complete acceptance and although, I think once it is legalized the issue should be over and pretty much will be in my book, I do think that there will be extremists that want all churches to bow down and kiss their asses.

For the record, even though the issue will be over in my books, if and when homosexual extremists begin suing conservative churches, I will be making a stink against them.

Immie

 

[Madeline]

I just cannot feature what sort of lawsuit a GLBT person could bring against any church, temple or mosque in their capacity as a religious house of worship, Immie. I mean, mebbe if they ran a hospital or something...but not as a house of worship. I think your fears are misplaced.

As for acceptance, yes of course GLBT people want acceptance. Who doesn't?