Christian Minister Arrested for Stating Homosexuality is a Sin

[Kondor3]

Does the U.K. not have adequate law in-place to protect Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Religious Expression and Freedom of Speech?

This fellow was correctly citing traditional mainstream Christian belief that homosexuality is a Sin... sick, unclean, unholy, unnatural, perverse, immoral and an aberration in the eyes of God, Man, and Nature itself.

Yeah, keep inside the church buddy! You can do your preaching and praying and repenting...it doesn't affect me or my family, but keep it off the streets where my kids have to see it.

That's odd... Straight Folk oftentimes say the same thing about Gay Pride parades.

That cuts both ways... not just one.

"...What is it with you Christians, trying to force your lifestyle down our throats?!"

They probably took a page from the Gay Rights playbook.

 

[JoeB131]

"...How about keeping your bronze age stupidity to yourselves?"

How about keeping your latter-day hostility to religion to yourself?

That cuts both ways, yes?

Religion has brought us crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, suppression of science, abuse of children...

It deserves every bit of hostility I bring. I only lament my supply of hostility is limited.

 

[Kondor3]

"...How about keeping your bronze age stupidity to yourselves?"

How about keeping your latter-day hostility to religion to yourself?

That cuts both ways, yes?

Religion has brought us crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, suppression of science, abuse of children...

It deserves every bit of hostility I bring. I only lament my supply of hostility is limited.

Religion has also brought us the survival and preservation of various aspects of the cultures and knowledge of Antiquity, the standardization and spread of literacy, the multi-generational transmission and clarification of moral standards and baselines for society, the standardization and internationalization of statutory and common law, the beginnings of municipal record keeping and accounting, the pacification of barbarous regions, sanctuary from and advocacy against heartless secular law and lawlessness, charitable works both large and small, and countless millions of lives of exemplary goodness, peace, love and good works that have gone uncelebrated across the ages.

As with any other aspect of Human Existence, Religious Belief deserves to have both sides of its coin considered, not just the one that is hostile to it.

Wisdom, in light of the fact that an overwhelming percentage of human beings, worldwide, possess religious or spiritual beliefs of one kind or another.

 

[KevinWestern]

"...How about keeping your bronze age stupidity to yourselves?"

How about keeping your latter-day hostility to religion to yourself?

That cuts both ways, yes?

Religion has brought us crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, suppression of science, abuse of children...

It deserves every bit of hostility I bring. I only lament my supply of hostility is limited.

To be fair, religion has done some good things for us in the past. For example, it provides order, it keeps people in line, and helps to build a code of ethics within society that (for the most part) is filled with positive things like "love thy neighbor", "don't have sex with your neighbor's wife", "be humble", etc. I don't think that's horrible, do you?

If people simply stuck to the true teachings of Jesus, I'm sure there would be no burning of witches, or religious war. Those things are simply examples of humans being nasty (which is something we're quite good at with or without religion).

What's the place of religion in the future? I'm not too sure. I will say (as a non-religious person) that I think we need to be careful when getting rid of the practice completely; I think there's some community building that comes from going to church every Sunday, and I also think churches are quite responsible for much of the community service in a given area.

Sure, the "threat of God's wrath" might be a strange reason to get people to motivated to help the poor, but it sure fucking works.

Until (as a society) we are smart enough to take the initiative to do good on our own accord in mass groups, I think we might need something like religion to help guide us.


.

 

[PratchettFan]

How about keeping your latter-day hostility to religion to yourself?

That cuts both ways, yes?

Religion has brought us crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, suppression of science, abuse of children...

It deserves every bit of hostility I bring. I only lament my supply of hostility is limited.

Religion has also brought us the survival and preservation of various aspects of the cultures and knowledge of Antiquity, the standardization and spread of literacy, the multi-generational transmission and clarification of moral standards and baselines for society, the standardization and internationalization of statutory and common law, the beginnings of municipal record keeping and accounting, the pacification of barbarous regions, sanctuary from and advocacy against heartless secular law and lawlessness, charitable works both large and small, and countless millions of lives of exemplary goodness, peace, love and good works that have gone uncelebrated across the ages.

As with any other aspect of Human Existence, Religious Belief deserves to have both sides of its coin considered, not just the one that is hostile to it.

Wisdom, in light of the fact that an overwhelming percentage of human beings, worldwide, possess religious or spiritual beliefs of one kind or another.

I don't disagree with anything you just said. However, let me point out again that what this guy did was use a loud speaker in front of a ticket line. This was not about what he was saying, it was about how he was saying it. He constituted a public nuisance.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Religion has also brought us the survival and preservation of various aspects of the cultures and knowledge of Antiquity, .

Horseshit. Christianity and Islam did their very best to destroy the knowledge of antiquity.

The Dark Ages were the first "Faith-Based Iniative".

The burning of the library of Alexandria. Christians and then Muslims.

Religion has never done a good thing in the history of mankind, not even by accident.

 

[JoeB131]

[

To be fair, religion has done some good things for us in the past. For example, it provides order, it keeps people in line, and helps to build a code of ethics within society that (for the most part) is filled with positive things like "love thy neighbor", "don't have sex with your neighbor's wife", "be humble", etc. I don't think that's horrible, do you?

Well, my neighbor's wife is kind of ugly, so I wouldn't want to have sex with her, anyway.

And that code of ethics also encourage genocide, wiping out non-believers, and an endorsement of slavery. We didn't start having a positive society until we started ignoring that stuff.

If people simply stuck to the true teachings of Jesus, I'm sure there would be no burning of witches, or religious war. Those things are simply examples of humans being nasty (which is something we're quite good at with or without religion).

"Thou shall not suffer a witch to live!" It's in the bible.

Sure, the "threat of God's wrath" might be a strange reason to get people to motivated to help the poor, but it sure fucking works.

Until (as a society) we are smart enough to take the initiative to do good on our own accord in mass groups, I think we might need something like religion to help guide us.


.

Actually, common decency would make us help the poor. But religion is mostly a wealthy protection act. "Don't worry, poor people, you will get rewarded in the afterlife, and those mean rich people will get theirs. Of course, this all happens after you die and we can't prove any of it, so just trust us. And ignore us while we accumulate wealth and live in palaces and mansions."

 

[earlycuyler]

Christian preacher arrested for calling homosexuality a sin in public - National Social Issues | Examiner.com

OF course this was in leftard England where free speech died a long time ago.

Miano said he did not focus entirely on homosexuality, but addressed all forms of sexual immorality using I Thessalonians 4:1-2 – a biblical passage that mentions sexual immorality.

“All of these are considered mainstream Christian positions and have been taught and believed by Christians for thousands of years," he said.

"Police took the retired deputy sheriff to a nearby jail where he was fingerprinted. Officers also took a sample of his DNA and then he was interrogated," Starnes wrote.

“It was very distressing to be arrested and interrogated for openly expressing my deeply held Christian beliefs,” Miano said.

According to a transcript of the interrogation, Miano was asked if he believed that homosexuality is a sin.

"Okay, and you believe through, your, your religion, that homosexuality is a sin?" the police interviewer asked.

"Yes, I do," Miano replied.

The interviewer then asked Miano how he thought people in the general public might feel hearing his message.

Miano was also asked if he would help a homosexual who asked for a favor.

"The word of God tells me to love your neighbor as myself," Miano answered.

Starnes said Miano was troubled that a hypothetical situation could be used against him in court.

“I was actually going to be tried for how I thought,” he said.

It will eventually be illegal to preach the Gospel here in the US as well. Christians need to prepare now BEFORE the storm.

He is entitled to his opinion, but he shouldn't be broadcasting it to the world. The officer is right - how would homosexual members of the public feel, being told that they are hated?

First, who cares, second where did he say they hated them ?

 

[earlycuyler]

[

To be fair, religion has done some good things for us in the past. For example, it provides order, it keeps people in line, and helps to build a code of ethics within society that (for the most part) is filled with positive things like "love thy neighbor", "don't have sex with your neighbor's wife", "be humble", etc. I don't think that's horrible, do you?

Well, my neighbor's wife is kind of ugly, so I wouldn't want to have sex with her, anyway.

And that code of ethics also encourage genocide, wiping out non-believers, and an endorsement of slavery. We didn't start having a positive society until we started ignoring that stuff.

If people simply stuck to the true teachings of Jesus, I'm sure there would be no burning of witches, or religious war. Those things are simply examples of humans being nasty (which is something we're quite good at with or without religion).

"Thou shall not suffer a witch to live!" It's in the bible.

Sure, the "threat of God's wrath" might be a strange reason to get people to motivated to help the poor, but it sure fucking works.

Until (as a society) we are smart enough to take the initiative to do good on our own accord in mass groups, I think we might need something like religion to help guide us.


.

Actually, common decency would make us help the poor. But religion is mostly a wealthy protection act. "Don't worry, poor people, you will get rewarded in the afterlife, and those mean rich people will get theirs. Of course, this all happens after you die and we can't prove any of it, so just trust us. And ignore us while we accumulate wealth and live in palaces and mansions."

Where there is a noomee there is a Joe. Joe. Religeion, and quoting the bible ain't a good idea for you. You screw it up and get busted adding shit, and basicley come off as not knowing what the fuck. You girlfriend does this allot to.

 

[earlycuyler]

How about keeping your latter-day hostility to religion to yourself?

That cuts both ways, yes?

Religion has brought us crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, suppression of science, abuse of children...

It deserves every bit of hostility I bring. I only lament my supply of hostility is limited.

To be fair, religion has done some good things for us in the past. For example, it provides order, it keeps people in line, and helps to build a code of ethics within society that (for the most part) is filled with positive things like "love thy neighbor", "don't have sex with your neighbor's wife", "be humble", etc. I don't think that's horrible, do you?

If people simply stuck to the true teachings of Jesus, I'm sure there would be no burning of witches, or religious war. Those things are simply examples of humans being nasty (which is something we're quite good at with or without religion).

What's the place of religion in the future? I'm not too sure. I will say (as a non-religious person) that I think we need to be careful when getting rid of the practice completely; I think there's some community building that comes from going to church every Sunday, and I also think churches are quite responsible for much of the community service in a given area.

Sure, the "threat of God's wrath" might be a strange reason to get people to motivated to help the poor, but it sure fucking works.

Until (as a society) we are smart enough to take the initiative to do good on our own accord in mass groups, I think we might need something like religion to help guide us.


.

So, where in the bible does it say you will get fire and brikstone for not giving to the poor ?

 

[Kondor3]

[
Religion has also brought us the survival and preservation of various aspects of the cultures and knowledge of Antiquity, .

Horseshit. Christianity and Islam did their very best to destroy the knowledge of antiquity.

Oh, I have no illusions that Christian Monasteries selectively preserved what they agreed with or what they thought would prove useful in future, but they did preserve a great deal, and to attempt to refute that is an exercise in absurdity, fueled by anti-religious prejudice.

And the learning centers of Islam did their part as well, and, by all reports, even more faithfully than did their backwards European-Christian counterparts, when it came to literature and medicine and the hard sciences.

Rightly or wrongly, I believe your hostility-to and bias-against Religion to be hindering and impeding your objectivity in the matter.

"...The Dark Ages were the first 'Faith-Based Iniative'..."

Given that the very notion of the large-scale Secular State had lost its hold upon the minds of men for some centuries in Europe, Religion did what it could under extremely trying circumstances; ill-prepared to take-on various aspects of the role but getting better at it over time and preventing a complete collapse into a more barbarous state during the early-to-middle going after the Western Empire folded.

"...The burning of the library of Alexandria. Christians and then Muslims..."

Methinks you've watched 'Agora' once too often.

Pagan Romans burned it twice. The local Coptic Egyptian Christians once. The Muslims once.

And each and every one of those incidents represented wrongdoing, and a loss for Mankind. Agreed. Nolo contendre. No contest.

The one Christian and one Muslim incident represented fallible, mortal men, re-interpreting and 'spinning' and twisting and corrupting the teachings of their Religious Founders, in order to rationalize their actions, which ran contrary to the teachings of those Founders.

Even still... against such wrongdoing to the knowledge and the Mind-of-Man, we can set the countless monasteries and other centers of learning and libraries and copying-centers and repositories operated by both Christian and Muslim clerics and stretching from Ireland to Persia and beyond, which preserved as much of Classical Learning as was desirable and practicable in those Ages of Violence and Uncertainty and Limited Resources and Expectations.

"...Religion has never done a good thing in the history of mankind, not even by accident."

You DO understand how petty and juvenile and psychotic that sounds, don't you?

 

[JoeB131]

[


Where there is a noomee there is a Joe. Joe. Religeion, and quoting the bible ain't a good idea for you. You screw it up and get busted adding shit, and basicley come off as not knowing what the fuck. You girlfriend does this allot to.

Dude, have you been drinking?

DUI on the information superhighway.

 

[KevinWestern]

Religion has brought us crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, suppression of science, abuse of children...

It deserves every bit of hostility I bring. I only lament my supply of hostility is limited.

To be fair, religion has done some good things for us in the past. For example, it provides order, it keeps people in line, and helps to build a code of ethics within society that (for the most part) is filled with positive things like "love thy neighbor", "don't have sex with your neighbor's wife", "be humble", etc. I don't think that's horrible, do you?

If people simply stuck to the true teachings of Jesus, I'm sure there would be no burning of witches, or religious war. Those things are simply examples of humans being nasty (which is something we're quite good at with or without religion).

What's the place of religion in the future? I'm not too sure. I will say (as a non-religious person) that I think we need to be careful when getting rid of the practice completely; I think there's some community building that comes from going to church every Sunday, and I also think churches are quite responsible for much of the community service in a given area.

Sure, the "threat of God's wrath" might be a strange reason to get people to motivated to help the poor, but it sure fucking works.

Until (as a society) we are smart enough to take the initiative to do good on our own accord in mass groups, I think we might need something like religion to help guide us.


.

So, where in the bible does it say you will get fire and brikstone for not giving to the poor ?

I don't know (as I'm not religious), however I do know there are stories of Jesus helping the poor (and ultimately setting the example for his followers).

 

[JoeB131]

[

So, where in the bible does it say you will get fire and brikstone for not giving to the poor ?

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. -- Luke 16:19-25

 

[Avatar4321]

Yeah, keep inside the church buddy!
You can do your preaching and praying and repenting...it doesn't affect me or my family, but keep it off the streets where my kids have to see it.

What is it with you Christians, trying to force your lifestyle down our throats?!

Who the heck are you to say we can't preach and pray and repent on the streets? You don't have to listen to any of us. But you sure as heck have no right to deny us of our rights.

But the preacher was forcing his beliefs on others.

Where is the freedom from religion?

You cannot force your beliefs onto others. You can persaude them. You can invite them and exhort them. But you cannot force a person to believe what you want. It's impossible. Even if you have a gun to your head, you can lie and say you believe something but they still cannot force their belief on you since you can still choose to completely reject it.

There is no freedom from religion. You don't have the right to supress someone elses God given rights to keep them from mentioning religion. You can choose not to accept it. You can just to argue against it. You can ignore it. But you don't have the right to silence others for your own comfort.

 

[JoeB131]

"...The burning of the library of Alexandria. Christians and then Muslims..."

Methinks you've watched 'Agora' once too often.

Pagan Romans burned it twice. The local Coptic Egyptian Christians once. The Muslims once.

And each and every one of those incidents represented wrongdoing, and a loss for Mankind. Agreed. Nolo contendre. No contest.

But, against that, we can set the countless monasteries and other centers of learning operated by both Christian and Muslim clerics and stretching from Ireland to Persia and beyond, which preserved as much of Classical Learning as was desirable and practicable in those Ages.

"...Religion has never done a good thing in the history of mankind, not even by accident."

You DO understand how petty and juvenile that sounds, don't you?

Actually, I only saw Agora once, and didn't think it was a great movie.

Even I thought it was a bit heavy handed.

But the point is, Religion contributed to the decline of Western Civilization before it started advancing again, largely despite religion, not because of it.

Let us not forget, they banned Copernicus, made Galileo recant his discoveries, and burned Giodani Bruno at the stake. For saying the Earth went around the sun. BLASPHEMER!!!!

 

[Avatar4321]

Why do Christians feel they have to make a public nuisance of themselves?

When I was a Methodist, for decades, we just went to church and tried to be nice. What is this new Christian thing where you have to stand on street corners screaming hate speech at people? What is that going to GET you?

How is preaching the Gospel screaming hate at people?

We are commanded by Christ to share the Gospel with people. We aren't told to quietly live our lives and be nice. We are told to preach and share and exhort one another to give up our sins.

How about keeping your bronze age stupidity to yourselves?

How about you actually humble yourself for a change and try to learn something instead of acting like a self righteous know it all who has no clue about anything in the world around himself?

 

[KevinWestern]

[

To be fair, religion has done some good things for us in the past. For example, it provides order, it keeps people in line, and helps to build a code of ethics within society that (for the most part) is filled with positive things like "love thy neighbor", "don't have sex with your neighbor's wife", "be humble", etc. I don't think that's horrible, do you?

Well, my neighbor's wife is kind of ugly, so I wouldn't want to have sex with her, anyway.

And that code of ethics also encourage genocide, wiping out non-believers, and an endorsement of slavery. We didn't start having a positive society until we started ignoring that stuff.

If people simply stuck to the true teachings of Jesus, I'm sure there would be no burning of witches, or religious war. Those things are simply examples of humans being nasty (which is something we're quite good at with or without religion).

"Thou shall not suffer a witch to live!" It's in the bible.

Sure, the "threat of God's wrath" might be a strange reason to get people to motivated to help the poor, but it sure fucking works.

Until (as a society) we are smart enough to take the initiative to do good on our own accord in mass groups, I think we might need something like religion to help guide us.


.

Actually, common decency would make us help the poor. But religion is mostly a wealthy protection act. "Don't worry, poor people, you will get rewarded in the afterlife, and those mean rich people will get theirs. Of course, this all happens after you die and we can't prove any of it, so just trust us. And ignore us while we accumulate wealth and live in palaces and mansions."

A few quick things. Sure, one does not need the Bible to form morals, ethics, etc (if I thought so, I'd be religious), but it sure does help. As I mentioned in my post, religion helps to motivate MASS groups of people to put an effort on kindness, and to help the poor, etc (ie like your average Joe that would otherwise be spending Sunday watching football).

It just works for some reason. When I help out at homeless shelters, usually 85% of the folks there are with a congregation. Why is this?

Also, is it a bad thing to teach people that hording material wealth won't bring us any good for what lies beyond each of our deaths? I think that's a great lesson, and one that Gandhi, Buddha, and many great thinkers throughout the ages would agree with. This is not necessarily just a religious concept.

.

 

[Smilebong]

There is a significant amount of Supreme Court precedence protecting the "freedoms" of hateful street preachers.

And the Gospel is now 'hate speech', lol.

This wont end well.

Wel, you know the day is coming.

Hate speech will become the hot button once enough Gays are in political power. And then when they control the majority, it will become illegal to talk about things like this on message boards without it being hate speech.

 

[Kondor3]

"...But the point is, Religion contributed to the decline of Western Civilization..."

How so? By bringing some measure of gentleness and egalitarianism to a Slave Society that had already long-since begun to rot from within? By ameliorating the worst excesses of pagan and newly-converted barbarian tribes that pressed upon the Empire because they were being pressed in-turn by Huns et al? I disagree with that particular and widespread opinion.

"...before it started advancing again, largely despite religion, not because of it..."

Any mechanism for education and governance outlives its usefulness as such, and, given that Christianity was the underlying glue and fabric of European Society for more than a thousand years between the Fall of the Western Empire and the opening years of the Renaissance, I'd say it held-up pretty well for as roughly as it began and how resource-poor it was for so long. It simply ran out of steam as the primary Educator and Governor and was thereby once again freed up to concentrate upon the Spirit of Man rather than his Secular Manifestation.

"...Let us not forget, they banned Copernicus, made Galileo recant his discoveries, and burned Giodani Bruno at the stake. For saying the Earth went around the sun. BLASPHEMER!!!!"

Nolo contendre. No contest.

BUT...

These were, once again, the acts and policies of mortal, fallible men, wrongly 'spinning' the core teachings of the Founder of their Faith, in a lame and transparent attempt to justify and rationalize their actions, which had no bearing whatsoever upon the Core Mission of Religion - the pastoral care of the Spirit of Man.

And, of course, we are talking about the Death Throes of the Medieval Church and its immediate successors and spin-offs, trying to hold onto its thousand-year-old role as Primary Educator and Governor, when the Mind of Man was growing strong once again and causing the Church to outlive its usefulness in such roles.

Once the Mind of Man had firmly put Religion back in its original place (pastoral care of the Spirit of Man) - once that painful closing chapter in the history of Religion was behind us - Religion was freed, once again, to concentrate primarily upon Pastoral Duties.

I make no pretence that one cannot - STILL - centuries later - find vestigial traces of the old Primary Educator and Governor mentality present within the framework of Organized Religion, but that's why God invented Separation of Church and State - to keep 'em in their place without harming them - in recognition of their value as Spiritual Caregivers and in honor of their former excellent service in those old roles, before they became obsolete and set off to the side in those roles.

But this is quickly morphing into something off-topic, and probably belongs on some Religion sub-board or another.

Still... it was fun... thanks for the time.