CIA's top lawyer made 'criminal referral' on complaint about Trump Ukraine call

[AzogtheDefiler]

I keep seeing Trumpers claim the phone call showed nothing.

Ummm...yea it did.It was clear as day.

"Well I'd like to ask a favor though..."



In response to Zelensky mentioning that he wanted more missiles to fend off the Russian invasion of his country.

And there were TWO favors asked for. Help in exonerating Russia (the country attacking Ukraine) in the hack of our election in 2016...and opening a bogus investigation of Trump's political rival

Herr Lesh why does Alan Dershowitz disagree with you!?

 

[JusticeHammer]

Barr is part of the corruption. The DoJ is broken. The State Department is broken. This administration has a record number of temporary appointees, unconfirmed by a Congress, taken no oath of office, and loyal to Trump personally, not the office of the presidency, the Constitution or the country. Career diplomats suddenly recalled for no reason and replaced by idiots. What is happening now is the tip of the iceberg.


CIA's top lawyer made 'criminal referral' on complaint about Trump Ukraine call


WASHINGTON — Weeks before the whistleblower's complaint became public, the CIA's top lawyer made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the whistleblower's allegations that President Donald Trump abused his office in pressuring the Ukrainian president, U.S. officials familiar with the matter tell NBC News.

The move by the CIA's general counsel, Trump appointee Courtney Simmons Elwood, meant she and other senior officials had concluded a potential crime had been committed, raising more questions about why the Justice Department later declined to open an investigation.

The phone call that Elwood considered to be a criminal referral is in addition to the referral later received as a letter from the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community regarding the whistleblower complaint.

Justice Department officials said they were unclear whether Elwood was making a criminal referral and followed up with her later to seek clarification but she remained vague.

In the days since the anonymous whistleblower complaint was made public accusing him of wrongdoing, Trump has lashed out at his accuser and other insiders who provided the accuser with information, suggesting they were improperly spying on what was a "perfect" call between him and the Ukrainian president.

But a timeline provided by U.S. officials familiar with the matter shows that multiple senior government officials appointed by Trump found the whistleblower's complaints credible, troubling and worthy of further inquiry starting soon after the president's July phone call.

While that timeline and the CIA general counsel's contact with the Justice Department has been previously disclosed, it has not been reported that the CIA's top lawyer intended her call to be a criminal referral about the president's conduct, acting under rules set forth in a memo governing how intelligence agencies should report allegations of federal crimes.

The fact that she and other top Trump administration political appointees saw potential misconduct in the whistleblower's early account of alleged presidential abuses puts a new spotlight on the Justice Department's later decision to decline to open a criminal investigation — a decision that the Justice Department said publicly was based purely on an analysis of whether the president committed a campaign finance law violation.

"They didn't do any of the sort of bread-and-butter type investigatory steps that would flush out what potential crimes may have been committed," said Berit Berger, a former federal prosecutor who heads the Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity at Columbia Law School. "I
While that timeline and the CIA general counsel's contact with the Justice Department has been previously disclosed, it has not been reported that the CIA's top lawyer intended her call to be a criminal referral about the president's conduct, acting under rules set forth in a memo governing how intelligence agencies should report allegations of federal crimes.

The fact that she and other top Trump administration political appointees saw potential misconduct in the whistleblower's early account of alleged presidential abuses puts a new spotlight on the Justice Department's later decision to decline to open a criminal investigation — a decision that the Justice Department said publicly was based purely on an analysis of whether the president committed a campaign finance law violation.

"They didn't do any of the sort of bread-and-butter type investigatory steps that would flush out what potential crimes may have been committed," said Berit Berger, a former federal prosecutor who heads the Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity at Columbia Law School. "I don't understand the rationale for that and it's just so contrary to how normal prosecutors work. We have started investigations on far less."

Great article.. So what was "the crime"?? Apparently even BLATANT strong arming of foreign power for favors can be done by just about ANY Congress critter.. Need examples???

I need a crime to give a hoot. Not just some gossip from NBC news...

What was his crime? Haven’t said there was one, yet. That is why it needs to be investigated. And, imo, with holding promised aid in exchange for an investigation into a political rival and the promise of an Oval Office date is as blatant as it gets in strong arming.

You libs are so stupid. You are an idiot.

 

[Meister]

My take on this whole thing isn't that Trump did a quid pro quo, hell, the democrats do that.
My take is that there is no other way they can beat Trump, because they sure aren't going
to be able to with the pack of mules they have running for his job.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Stormy
Emoluments
Mueller
Cohen
Ukraine

That's how much Progressive hate living in a country where they don't have a One Party Rule stranglehold

Or a pussy republicans that they can push around.....Like Romney and Flake.

"The indictments of felonious Democrats are absent because Republicans are stupid." - Paul Craig Roberts

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So what was "the crime"??

Corruption,extortion, solicitation of bribes, campaign finance law violations. This information is literally all over the news.

Apparently, the newest trump supporter defense is to act as surprised and ignorant as a newborn baby.

"What crimes?", "What are they even investigating???"

 

[Coyote]

Are you sure about that? They threatened Ukraine? Did they withhold money? Dangle the promise of a state visit?

Trump said they threatened. And in this hyperpartisan age, Trump plays by different rules and is judged by different rules apparently.

Instead of relying on Town Hall’s interpretation, here is the actual letter: https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/5-4-18 Menendez joint letter to General Prosecutor of Ukraine on Mueller investigation.pdf

And the context: a request to provide an explanation as to why Ukraine was impeding investigations related to the Mueller probe.

Was this a legitimate and legal investigation? Yes.

Was it for personal political benefit? No.

Were any threats made or delivered? No.

So how is this comparable to what we know so far regarding Trump’s actions with Ukraine, and, apparently, he is now flailing at China, to pressure them to investigate his political rival?

Here are some key points. Trump has plenty of legal and transparent channels he can use to conduct a legitimate investigation into corruption. He opted not to, and instead used his personal lawyer, recalled a career diplomat abruptly from Ukraine, and worked through people with a personal loyalty to him rather than the nation. Worse, attempting to suppress whistle blowers, threatening to expose them...and muse about the good old days of executing “traitors”.

It isn’t hyperpartisan to say this is very concerning, and it isn’t hyperpartisan to say that comparing this the what senators wrote on behalf of the Mueller investigation is a false equivalency.

The key points in the TownHall article are in the very first paragraph of that archived letter at senate.gov.. MASSIVE blatant threats in exchange for partisan political gain...

Trump does need to off Biden right now... I don't Dems often think deep enough about effective strategery.. If Trump was interested in the POLITICAL value of Biden's misdeeds with Ukraine, he would HOLD that arrow in the quiver until the party NOMINATES HIM... And then smash him with it... And THAT would be the end of that election.... No way is there equal value to making it an issue now other than pointing out the hypocrisy and corruption.....

But how was it for partisan political gain? It was for the Mueller investigation, Manafort had not been part of the Trump campaign for years and whatever they shared with Mueller's special counsel, was kept mum, from the public and congress critters....

And why do you think Trump asking the Ukraine president to work with Giuliani, his personal ala Michael Cohen fixer, to get political dirt on a political rival and his son, who were NOT under an official investigation by the USA, while holding back Congressional backed aid to fight off Russian aggression... until the Ukraine made a public announcement that they were investigating hunter biden is anyway near the same type of acts? And in addition the Ukraine proposed announcement letter was written by Ambassador Volker and others from Trump's group working with Giuliani...

THERE IS NO comparison in the two very different scenarios

one is legitimate

the other crooked

Wow, you really don't know what happened. Giuliani was working in Ukraine before the Mueller investigation wrapped up, he was investigating the genesis of the collusion delusion, the Bidens were brought up to him, he wasn't even looking at it. Biden wasn't even a candidate then.

.

YES Rudy's shady dealings in the Ukraine go way back...

Trump sent Giuliani to try to dig up information that could help Trump give MANAFORT a PARDON

and to make it look like the Ukraine did the attack on our elections, and not ordered by Putin and done by Russian Intelligence,

so that Trump could have reason to remove the sanctions on Russia for the interference,

the admin has also pressured the Ukraine President to work out some sort of deal giving up his country's land to Putin, to kiss and give up the stolen Crimea....

once this deal is done, Trump can ask congress to remove the other hefty sanctions on them for invading Crimea....

And Trump can beg once again, to let Putin back in the G7

Trump holding back aide to the Ukraine during the time when the new Ukraine president was fighting off Russia, while also negotiating this so called deal with Putin, gave Zelensky a disadvantaged and Putin an advantage...

The Biden dirt started as a side show when Biden announced and he was creaming Trump in the one on one, match up polls.

That's a butt load of opinion you have there.

One question. Wouldn't it be prudent to suspend aid to a country with a history of rampant corruption, till you get a read on what the new government is like?

.

Prudent? That does not fly in the face evidence indicatung otherwise.

Pentagon Letter Undercuts Trump Assertion On Delaying Aid To Ukraine Over Corruption

Do yo have another excuse?

 

[Vastator]

Barr is part of the corruption. The DoJ is broken. The State Department is broken. This administration has a record number of temporary appointees, unconfirmed by a Congress, taken no oath of office, and loyal to Trump personally, not the office of the presidency, the Constitution or the country. Career diplomats suddenly recalled for no reason and replaced by idiots. What is happening now is the tip of the iceberg.


CIA's top lawyer made 'criminal referral' on complaint about Trump Ukraine call


WASHINGTON — Weeks before the whistleblower's complaint became public, the CIA's top lawyer made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the whistleblower's allegations that President Donald Trump abused his office in pressuring the Ukrainian president, U.S. officials familiar with the matter tell NBC News.

The move by the CIA's general counsel, Trump appointee Courtney Simmons Elwood, meant she and other senior officials had concluded a potential crime had been committed, raising more questions about why the Justice Department later declined to open an investigation.

The phone call that Elwood considered to be a criminal referral is in addition to the referral later received as a letter from the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community regarding the whistleblower complaint.

Justice Department officials said they were unclear whether Elwood was making a criminal referral and followed up with her later to seek clarification but she remained vague.

In the days since the anonymous whistleblower complaint was made public accusing him of wrongdoing, Trump has lashed out at his accuser and other insiders who provided the accuser with information, suggesting they were improperly spying on what was a "perfect" call between him and the Ukrainian president.

But a timeline provided by U.S. officials familiar with the matter shows that multiple senior government officials appointed by Trump found the whistleblower's complaints credible, troubling and worthy of further inquiry starting soon after the president's July phone call.

While that timeline and the CIA general counsel's contact with the Justice Department has been previously disclosed, it has not been reported that the CIA's top lawyer intended her call to be a criminal referral about the president's conduct, acting under rules set forth in a memo governing how intelligence agencies should report allegations of federal crimes.

The fact that she and other top Trump administration political appointees saw potential misconduct in the whistleblower's early account of alleged presidential abuses puts a new spotlight on the Justice Department's later decision to decline to open a criminal investigation — a decision that the Justice Department said publicly was based purely on an analysis of whether the president committed a campaign finance law violation.

"They didn't do any of the sort of bread-and-butter type investigatory steps that would flush out what potential crimes may have been committed," said Berit Berger, a former federal prosecutor who heads the Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity at Columbia Law School. "I
While that timeline and the CIA general counsel's contact with the Justice Department has been previously disclosed, it has not been reported that the CIA's top lawyer intended her call to be a criminal referral about the president's conduct, acting under rules set forth in a memo governing how intelligence agencies should report allegations of federal crimes.

The fact that she and other top Trump administration political appointees saw potential misconduct in the whistleblower's early account of alleged presidential abuses puts a new spotlight on the Justice Department's later decision to decline to open a criminal investigation — a decision that the Justice Department said publicly was based purely on an analysis of whether the president committed a campaign finance law violation.

"They didn't do any of the sort of bread-and-butter type investigatory steps that would flush out what potential crimes may have been committed," said Berit Berger, a former federal prosecutor who heads the Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity at Columbia Law School. "I don't understand the rationale for that and it's just so contrary to how normal prosecutors work. We have started investigations on far less."

Great article.. So what was "the crime"?? Apparently even BLATANT strong arming of foreign power for favors can be done by just about ANY Congress critter.. Need examples???

I need a crime to give a hoot. Not just some gossip from NBC news...

What was his crime? Haven’t said there was one, yet. That is why it needs to be investigated. And, imo, with holding promised aid in exchange for an investigation into a political rival and the promise of an Oval Office date is as blatant as it gets in strong arming.

So... You've got it out for Biden... ? Fair enough...

 

[Coyote]

Barr is part of the corruption. The DoJ is broken. The State Department is broken. This administration has a record number of temporary appointees, unconfirmed by a Congress, taken no oath of office, and loyal to Trump personally, not the office of the presidency, the Constitution or the country. Career diplomats suddenly recalled for no reason and replaced by idiots. What is happening now is the tip of the iceberg.


CIA's top lawyer made 'criminal referral' on complaint about Trump Ukraine call


WASHINGTON — Weeks before the whistleblower's complaint became public, the CIA's top lawyer made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the whistleblower's allegations that President Donald Trump abused his office in pressuring the Ukrainian president, U.S. officials familiar with the matter tell NBC News.

The move by the CIA's general counsel, Trump appointee Courtney Simmons Elwood, meant she and other senior officials had concluded a potential crime had been committed, raising more questions about why the Justice Department later declined to open an investigation.

The phone call that Elwood considered to be a criminal referral is in addition to the referral later received as a letter from the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community regarding the whistleblower complaint.

Justice Department officials said they were unclear whether Elwood was making a criminal referral and followed up with her later to seek clarification but she remained vague.

In the days since the anonymous whistleblower complaint was made public accusing him of wrongdoing, Trump has lashed out at his accuser and other insiders who provided the accuser with information, suggesting they were improperly spying on what was a "perfect" call between him and the Ukrainian president.

Read the rest of the article using the link

The Justice Department declined to open an investigation because it has become the partisan arm of the GOP and protector of Trump.

Enforcing the law is subordinate to that.

Yea Obama DOJ NEVER did anything questionable AT ALL. fucking hypocrites.

No elected official is perfect, some are better, some are worse and that applies equally to the left and the right. That said there are scumwaffle individuals. I try hard to see both sides but sometimes I think a spade is a spade and falae moral equivalencies are not going to change ut.

The way everything looks, fron the limited array of facts (not conjecture, not conspircy theory) that are available to us is that Trump might have comnitted and act of corruption, using his offoce to withold aid, and promise an oval office meeting in exchange for a favor: investigate specifically, a political rival, based on unsubstantiated allegations, and make a public notice to that effect.

There is no way to take those facts and spin it into something acceptable. It realy isnt. It really really isnt. And once we start defending this sort of abuse of power, WHERE IS THE BOTTOM?

No, Obama did not do anything approaching this. Neither did Bush. That is left and right.

We need ti stop the false comparisons.

 

[OKTexas]

Wow, you really don't know what happened. Giuliani was working in Ukraine before the Mueller investigation wrapped up, he was investigating the genesis of the collusion delusion, the Bidens were brought up to him, he wasn't even looking at it. Biden wasn't even a candidate then.

.

YES Rudy's shady dealings in the Ukraine go way back...

Trump sent Giuliani to try to dig up information that could help Trump give MANAFORT a PARDON

and to make it look like the Ukraine did the attack on our elections, and not ordered by Putin and done by Russian Intelligence,

so that Trump could have reason to remove the sanctions on Russia for the interference,

the admin has also pressured the Ukraine President to work out some sort of deal giving up his country's land to Putin, to kiss and give up the stolen Crimea....

once this deal is done, Trump can ask congress to remove the other hefty sanctions on them for invading Crimea....

And Trump can beg once again, to let Putin back in the G7

Trump holding back aide to the Ukraine during the time when the new Ukraine president was fighting off Russia, while also negotiating this so called deal with Putin, gave Zelensky a disadvantaged and Putin an advantage...

The Biden dirt started as a side show when Biden announced and he was creaming Trump in the one on one, match up polls.

That's a butt load of opinion you have there.

One question. Wouldn't it be prudent to suspend aid to a country with a history of rampant corruption, till you get a read on what the new government is like?

.

1 their corruption that could be cleaned up had ZERO to do with the Bidens from 3 years ago

2 they cleaned up a lot of their corruption and some time in May 2019, our State dept gave the Ukraine a ''clean bill of health''


Now tell me... what do you think Zelensky thought when the very country asking them to clean up their corruption... yet the President of the USA was holding his aid back and strong arming him, unless he illegally helped investigate Trump's upcoming political rival's son and made a Public Announcement that he was investigating him, so Trump could use it in his upcoming campaign?


Zelensky paraphased

''What?? The country's president that is asking me to get rid of the corruption here in the Ukraine wants me to work with his personal consigliere Giuliani, to help him in his own dirty and corrupt scheme for his own political reelection campaign?''

First let's get one thing straight, the favor Trump asked for was aid in ascertaining the genesis of the 2016 collusion delusion. If you can't admit that then there is no point in further discussion.

Second, if you read the transcript out loud, the mention of the Bidens lasted about 8 seconds of the 30 minute call and occurred toward the end of the call.

You're entitled to your own opinions, facts are facts, they belong to no one. Zelensky didn't take office till May, how could the State Dept given him a clean bill in May?

.

Yes, it's an opinion!!

Yes, Crowdstrike is part of the collusion delusion conspiracy cooked up that would help manafort and trump' s ego.

We got only 5 to 10 minutes of the call in their summary, there were ellipses... right where the alleged quid pro quo took place

Could have been June, I will look for the link... it's possible it was a State dept analysis on corruption there on its own to assess the country.

Wow more conspiracy theories, you have no proof there were any gaps in the transcripts. If you actually read the transcripts, it was clear he asked Ukraine to cooperate with the US DOJ in both instances. That's another fact, there's nothing wrong with that.

.

 

[OKTexas]

The key points in the TownHall article are in the very first paragraph of that archived letter at senate.gov.. MASSIVE blatant threats in exchange for partisan political gain...

Trump does need to off Biden right now... I don't Dems often think deep enough about effective strategery.. If Trump was interested in the POLITICAL value of Biden's misdeeds with Ukraine, he would HOLD that arrow in the quiver until the party NOMINATES HIM... And then smash him with it... And THAT would be the end of that election.... No way is there equal value to making it an issue now other than pointing out the hypocrisy and corruption.....

But how was it for partisan political gain? It was for the Mueller investigation, Manafort had not been part of the Trump campaign for years and whatever they shared with Mueller's special counsel, was kept mum, from the public and congress critters....

And why do you think Trump asking the Ukraine president to work with Giuliani, his personal ala Michael Cohen fixer, to get political dirt on a political rival and his son, who were NOT under an official investigation by the USA, while holding back Congressional backed aid to fight off Russian aggression... until the Ukraine made a public announcement that they were investigating hunter biden is anyway near the same type of acts? And in addition the Ukraine proposed announcement letter was written by Ambassador Volker and others from Trump's group working with Giuliani...

THERE IS NO comparison in the two very different scenarios

one is legitimate

the other crooked

Wow, you really don't know what happened. Giuliani was working in Ukraine before the Mueller investigation wrapped up, he was investigating the genesis of the collusion delusion, the Bidens were brought up to him, he wasn't even looking at it. Biden wasn't even a candidate then.

.

YES Rudy's shady dealings in the Ukraine go way back...

Trump sent Giuliani to try to dig up information that could help Trump give MANAFORT a PARDON

and to make it look like the Ukraine did the attack on our elections, and not ordered by Putin and done by Russian Intelligence,

so that Trump could have reason to remove the sanctions on Russia for the interference,

the admin has also pressured the Ukraine President to work out some sort of deal giving up his country's land to Putin, to kiss and give up the stolen Crimea....

once this deal is done, Trump can ask congress to remove the other hefty sanctions on them for invading Crimea....

And Trump can beg once again, to let Putin back in the G7

Trump holding back aide to the Ukraine during the time when the new Ukraine president was fighting off Russia, while also negotiating this so called deal with Putin, gave Zelensky a disadvantaged and Putin an advantage...

The Biden dirt started as a side show when Biden announced and he was creaming Trump in the one on one, match up polls.

That's a butt load of opinion you have there.

One question. Wouldn't it be prudent to suspend aid to a country with a history of rampant corruption, till you get a read on what the new government is like?

.

Prudent? That does not fly in the face evidence indicatung otherwise.

Pentagon Letter Undercuts Trump Assertion On Delaying Aid To Ukraine Over Corruption

Do yo have another excuse?

Wow, our defense dept said their defense dept is doing a better job on accountability, so where does it say the WHOLE Ukraine government is? Cherry picking much?

.

 

[OKTexas]

Barr is part of the corruption. The DoJ is broken. The State Department is broken. This administration has a record number of temporary appointees, unconfirmed by a Congress, taken no oath of office, and loyal to Trump personally, not the office of the presidency, the Constitution or the country. Career diplomats suddenly recalled for no reason and replaced by idiots. What is happening now is the tip of the iceberg.


CIA's top lawyer made 'criminal referral' on complaint about Trump Ukraine call


WASHINGTON — Weeks before the whistleblower's complaint became public, the CIA's top lawyer made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the whistleblower's allegations that President Donald Trump abused his office in pressuring the Ukrainian president, U.S. officials familiar with the matter tell NBC News.

The move by the CIA's general counsel, Trump appointee Courtney Simmons Elwood, meant she and other senior officials had concluded a potential crime had been committed, raising more questions about why the Justice Department later declined to open an investigation.

The phone call that Elwood considered to be a criminal referral is in addition to the referral later received as a letter from the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community regarding the whistleblower complaint.

Justice Department officials said they were unclear whether Elwood was making a criminal referral and followed up with her later to seek clarification but she remained vague.

In the days since the anonymous whistleblower complaint was made public accusing him of wrongdoing, Trump has lashed out at his accuser and other insiders who provided the accuser with information, suggesting they were improperly spying on what was a "perfect" call between him and the Ukrainian president.

Read the rest of the article using the link

The Justice Department declined to open an investigation because it has become the partisan arm of the GOP and protector of Trump.

Enforcing the law is subordinate to that.

Yea Obama DOJ NEVER did anything questionable AT ALL. fucking hypocrites.

No elected official is perfect, some are better, some are worse and that applies equally to the left and the right. That said there are scumwaffle individuals. I try hard to see both sides but sometimes I think a spade is a spade and falae moral equivalencies are not going to change ut.

The way everything looks, fron the limited array of facts (not conjecture, not conspircy theory) that are available to us is that Trump might have comnitted and act of corruption, using his offoce to withold aid, and promise an oval office meeting in exchange for a favor: investigate specifically, a political rival, based on unsubstantiated allegations, and make a public notice to that effect.

There is no way to take those facts and spin it into something acceptable. It realy isnt. It really really isnt. And once we start defending this sort of abuse of power, WHERE IS THE BOTTOM?

No, Obama did not do anything approaching this. Neither did Bush. That is left and right.

We need ti stop the false comparisons.

The fact is you have no clue what maobama or Bush did, they didn't have the leaks that exist in the Trump white house. Once again Trump asked Ukraine to cooperate with the US DOJ as they look into these situations. There is nothing untoward about that.

.

 

[Coyote]

YES Rudy's shady dealings in the Ukraine go way back...

Trump sent Giuliani to try to dig up information that could help Trump give MANAFORT a PARDON

and to make it look like the Ukraine did the attack on our elections, and not ordered by Putin and done by Russian Intelligence,

so that Trump could have reason to remove the sanctions on Russia for the interference,

the admin has also pressured the Ukraine President to work out some sort of deal giving up his country's land to Putin, to kiss and give up the stolen Crimea....

once this deal is done, Trump can ask congress to remove the other hefty sanctions on them for invading Crimea....

And Trump can beg once again, to let Putin back in the G7

Trump holding back aide to the Ukraine during the time when the new Ukraine president was fighting off Russia, while also negotiating this so called deal with Putin, gave Zelensky a disadvantaged and Putin an advantage...

The Biden dirt started as a side show when Biden announced and he was creaming Trump in the one on one, match up polls.

That's a butt load of opinion you have there.

One question. Wouldn't it be prudent to suspend aid to a country with a history of rampant corruption, till you get a read on what the new government is like?

.

1 their corruption that could be cleaned up had ZERO to do with the Bidens from 3 years ago

2 they cleaned up a lot of their corruption and some time in May 2019, our State dept gave the Ukraine a ''clean bill of health''


Now tell me... what do you think Zelensky thought when the very country asking them to clean up their corruption... yet the President of the USA was holding his aid back and strong arming him, unless he illegally helped investigate Trump's upcoming political rival's son and made a Public Announcement that he was investigating him, so Trump could use it in his upcoming campaign?


Zelensky paraphased

''What?? The country's president that is asking me to get rid of the corruption here in the Ukraine wants me to work with his personal consigliere Giuliani, to help him in his own dirty and corrupt scheme for his own political reelection campaign?''

First let's get one thing straight, the favor Trump asked for was aid in ascertaining the genesis of the 2016 collusion delusion. If you can't admit that then there is no point in further discussion.

Second, if you read the transcript out loud, the mention of the Bidens lasted about 8 seconds of the 30 minute call and occurred toward the end of the call.

You're entitled to your own opinions, facts are facts, they belong to no one. Zelensky didn't take office till May, how could the State Dept given him a clean bill in May?

.

Yes, it's an opinion!!

Yes, Crowdstrike is part of the collusion delusion conspiracy cooked up that would help manafort and trump' s ego.

We got only 5 to 10 minutes of the call in their summary, there were ellipses... right where the alleged quid pro quo took place

Could have been June, I will look for the link... it's possible it was a State dept analysis on corruption there on its own to assess the country.

Wow more conspiracy theories, you have no proof there were any gaps in the transcripts. If you actually read the transcripts, it was clear he asked Ukraine to cooperate with the US DOJ in both instances. That's another fact, there's nothing wrong with that.

.

It is not transcript. It is a memo if a phone call. This administration, unlike prior administrations, stopped doing verbatim transcripts of calls within the first year.

 

[Coyote]

Barr is part of the corruption. The DoJ is broken. The State Department is broken. This administration has a record number of temporary appointees, unconfirmed by a Congress, taken no oath of office, and loyal to Trump personally, not the office of the presidency, the Constitution or the country. Career diplomats suddenly recalled for no reason and replaced by idiots. What is happening now is the tip of the iceberg.


CIA's top lawyer made 'criminal referral' on complaint about Trump Ukraine call


WASHINGTON — Weeks before the whistleblower's complaint became public, the CIA's top lawyer made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the whistleblower's allegations that President Donald Trump abused his office in pressuring the Ukrainian president, U.S. officials familiar with the matter tell NBC News.

The move by the CIA's general counsel, Trump appointee Courtney Simmons Elwood, meant she and other senior officials had concluded a potential crime had been committed, raising more questions about why the Justice Department later declined to open an investigation.

The phone call that Elwood considered to be a criminal referral is in addition to the referral later received as a letter from the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community regarding the whistleblower complaint.

Justice Department officials said they were unclear whether Elwood was making a criminal referral and followed up with her later to seek clarification but she remained vague.

In the days since the anonymous whistleblower complaint was made public accusing him of wrongdoing, Trump has lashed out at his accuser and other insiders who provided the accuser with information, suggesting they were improperly spying on what was a "perfect" call between him and the Ukrainian president.

Read the rest of the article using the link

The Justice Department declined to open an investigation because it has become the partisan arm of the GOP and protector of Trump.

Enforcing the law is subordinate to that.

Yea Obama DOJ NEVER did anything questionable AT ALL. fucking hypocrites.

No elected official is perfect, some are better, some are worse and that applies equally to the left and the right. That said there are scumwaffle individuals. I try hard to see both sides but sometimes I think a spade is a spade and falae moral equivalencies are not going to change ut.

The way everything looks, fron the limited array of facts (not conjecture, not conspircy theory) that are available to us is that Trump might have comnitted and act of corruption, using his offoce to withold aid, and promise an oval office meeting in exchange for a favor: investigate specifically, a political rival, based on unsubstantiated allegations, and make a public notice to that effect.

There is no way to take those facts and spin it into something acceptable. It realy isnt. It really really isnt. And once we start defending this sort of abuse of power, WHERE IS THE BOTTOM?

No, Obama did not do anything approaching this. Neither did Bush. That is left and right.

We need ti stop the false comparisons.

The fact is you have no clue what maobama or Bush did, they didn't have the leaks that exist in the Trump white house. Once again Trump asked Ukraine to cooperate with the US DOJ as they look into these situations. There is nothing untoward about that.

.

The Trump administration did not ask Uktaine to cooperate with the DoJ.

Trump personally asked them to investigate Biden, not "these situations" but one specific person who just happened to be his political rival. He asked them to work with his PERSONAL lawyer in this matter.

Keep spinning the lies, it doesnt change the facts.

 

[OKTexas]

That's a butt load of opinion you have there.

One question. Wouldn't it be prudent to suspend aid to a country with a history of rampant corruption, till you get a read on what the new government is like?

.

1 their corruption that could be cleaned up had ZERO to do with the Bidens from 3 years ago

2 they cleaned up a lot of their corruption and some time in May 2019, our State dept gave the Ukraine a ''clean bill of health''


Now tell me... what do you think Zelensky thought when the very country asking them to clean up their corruption... yet the President of the USA was holding his aid back and strong arming him, unless he illegally helped investigate Trump's upcoming political rival's son and made a Public Announcement that he was investigating him, so Trump could use it in his upcoming campaign?


Zelensky paraphased

''What?? The country's president that is asking me to get rid of the corruption here in the Ukraine wants me to work with his personal consigliere Giuliani, to help him in his own dirty and corrupt scheme for his own political reelection campaign?''

First let's get one thing straight, the favor Trump asked for was aid in ascertaining the genesis of the 2016 collusion delusion. If you can't admit that then there is no point in further discussion.

Second, if you read the transcript out loud, the mention of the Bidens lasted about 8 seconds of the 30 minute call and occurred toward the end of the call.

You're entitled to your own opinions, facts are facts, they belong to no one. Zelensky didn't take office till May, how could the State Dept given him a clean bill in May?

.

Yes, it's an opinion!!

Yes, Crowdstrike is part of the collusion delusion conspiracy cooked up that would help manafort and trump' s ego.

We got only 5 to 10 minutes of the call in their summary, there were ellipses... right where the alleged quid pro quo took place

Could have been June, I will look for the link... it's possible it was a State dept analysis on corruption there on its own to assess the country.

Wow more conspiracy theories, you have no proof there were any gaps in the transcripts. If you actually read the transcripts, it was clear he asked Ukraine to cooperate with the US DOJ in both instances. That's another fact, there's nothing wrong with that.

.

It is not transcript. It is a memo if a phone call. This administration, unlike prior administrations, stopped doing verbatim transcripts of calls within the first year.

Actually no administration since Nixon has kept recordings or transcripts verbatim. All have had note takers that are to listen in and take notes of the call.

.

 

[OKTexas]

Barr is part of the corruption. The DoJ is broken. The State Department is broken. This administration has a record number of temporary appointees, unconfirmed by a Congress, taken no oath of office, and loyal to Trump personally, not the office of the presidency, the Constitution or the country. Career diplomats suddenly recalled for no reason and replaced by idiots. What is happening now is the tip of the iceberg.


CIA's top lawyer made 'criminal referral' on complaint about Trump Ukraine call


WASHINGTON — Weeks before the whistleblower's complaint became public, the CIA's top lawyer made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the whistleblower's allegations that President Donald Trump abused his office in pressuring the Ukrainian president, U.S. officials familiar with the matter tell NBC News.

The move by the CIA's general counsel, Trump appointee Courtney Simmons Elwood, meant she and other senior officials had concluded a potential crime had been committed, raising more questions about why the Justice Department later declined to open an investigation.

The phone call that Elwood considered to be a criminal referral is in addition to the referral later received as a letter from the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community regarding the whistleblower complaint.

Justice Department officials said they were unclear whether Elwood was making a criminal referral and followed up with her later to seek clarification but she remained vague.

In the days since the anonymous whistleblower complaint was made public accusing him of wrongdoing, Trump has lashed out at his accuser and other insiders who provided the accuser with information, suggesting they were improperly spying on what was a "perfect" call between him and the Ukrainian president.

Read the rest of the article using the link

The Justice Department declined to open an investigation because it has become the partisan arm of the GOP and protector of Trump.

Enforcing the law is subordinate to that.

Yea Obama DOJ NEVER did anything questionable AT ALL. fucking hypocrites.

No elected official is perfect, some are better, some are worse and that applies equally to the left and the right. That said there are scumwaffle individuals. I try hard to see both sides but sometimes I think a spade is a spade and falae moral equivalencies are not going to change ut.

The way everything looks, fron the limited array of facts (not conjecture, not conspircy theory) that are available to us is that Trump might have comnitted and act of corruption, using his offoce to withold aid, and promise an oval office meeting in exchange for a favor: investigate specifically, a political rival, based on unsubstantiated allegations, and make a public notice to that effect.

There is no way to take those facts and spin it into something acceptable. It realy isnt. It really really isnt. And once we start defending this sort of abuse of power, WHERE IS THE BOTTOM?

No, Obama did not do anything approaching this. Neither did Bush. That is left and right.

We need ti stop the false comparisons.

The fact is you have no clue what maobama or Bush did, they didn't have the leaks that exist in the Trump white house. Once again Trump asked Ukraine to cooperate with the US DOJ as they look into these situations. There is nothing untoward about that.

.

The Trump administration did not ask Uktaine to cooperate with the DoJ.

Trump personally asked them to investigate Biden, not "these situations" but one specific person who just happened to be his political rival. He asked them to work with his PERSONAL lawyer in this matter.

Keep spinning the lies, it doesnt change the facts.

He asked for cooperation on the genesis of the Mueller probe and mentioned Attorney General Bar 4 times during the conversation. Biden and his son were mentioned once.

Child I'm not the one doing the spinning, that would be you.

Got to run for now, but will be back tonight.

.

 

[iceberg]

Barr is part of the corruption. The DoJ is broken. The State Department is broken. This administration has a record number of temporary appointees, unconfirmed by a Congress, taken no oath of office, and loyal to Trump personally, not the office of the presidency, the Constitution or the country. Career diplomats suddenly recalled for no reason and replaced by idiots. What is happening now is the tip of the iceberg.


CIA's top lawyer made 'criminal referral' on complaint about Trump Ukraine call


WASHINGTON — Weeks before the whistleblower's complaint became public, the CIA's top lawyer made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the whistleblower's allegations that President Donald Trump abused his office in pressuring the Ukrainian president, U.S. officials familiar with the matter tell NBC News.

The move by the CIA's general counsel, Trump appointee Courtney Simmons Elwood, meant she and other senior officials had concluded a potential crime had been committed, raising more questions about why the Justice Department later declined to open an investigation.

The phone call that Elwood considered to be a criminal referral is in addition to the referral later received as a letter from the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community regarding the whistleblower complaint.

Justice Department officials said they were unclear whether Elwood was making a criminal referral and followed up with her later to seek clarification but she remained vague.

In the days since the anonymous whistleblower complaint was made public accusing him of wrongdoing, Trump has lashed out at his accuser and other insiders who provided the accuser with information, suggesting they were improperly spying on what was a "perfect" call between him and the Ukrainian president.

Read the rest of the article using the link

The Justice Department declined to open an investigation because it has become the partisan arm of the GOP and protector of Trump.

Enforcing the law is subordinate to that.

Yea Obama DOJ NEVER did anything questionable AT ALL. fucking hypocrites.

No elected official is perfect, some are better, some are worse and that applies equally to the left and the right. That said there are scumwaffle individuals. I try hard to see both sides but sometimes I think a spade is a spade and falae moral equivalencies are not going to change ut.

The way everything looks, fron the limited array of facts (not conjecture, not conspircy theory) that are available to us is that Trump might have comnitted and act of corruption, using his offoce to withold aid, and promise an oval office meeting in exchange for a favor: investigate specifically, a political rival, based on unsubstantiated allegations, and make a public notice to that effect.

There is no way to take those facts and spin it into something acceptable. It realy isnt. It really really isnt. And once we start defending this sort of abuse of power, WHERE IS THE BOTTOM?

No, Obama did not do anything approaching this. Neither did Bush. That is left and right.

We need ti stop the false comparisons.

We need to call a crime a crime regardless of who does it.

You destroy evidence requested, you pay. Those things when justified are fuel to a fire.

Saying Trump should be impeached for a slice of a conversation yet defending Hillary will keep the divide alive n well and trying to call them false equivalencies won't cut it.

Our hate for 5he other side blinds us to our own actions n we dig this hole deeper.

 

[iceberg]

That's a butt load of opinion you have there.

One question. Wouldn't it be prudent to suspend aid to a country with a history of rampant corruption, till you get a read on what the new government is like?

.

1 their corruption that could be cleaned up had ZERO to do with the Bidens from 3 years ago

2 they cleaned up a lot of their corruption and some time in May 2019, our State dept gave the Ukraine a ''clean bill of health''


Now tell me... what do you think Zelensky thought when the very country asking them to clean up their corruption... yet the President of the USA was holding his aid back and strong arming him, unless he illegally helped investigate Trump's upcoming political rival's son and made a Public Announcement that he was investigating him, so Trump could use it in his upcoming campaign?


Zelensky paraphased

''What?? The country's president that is asking me to get rid of the corruption here in the Ukraine wants me to work with his personal consigliere Giuliani, to help him in his own dirty and corrupt scheme for his own political reelection campaign?''

First let's get one thing straight, the favor Trump asked for was aid in ascertaining the genesis of the 2016 collusion delusion. If you can't admit that then there is no point in further discussion.

Second, if you read the transcript out loud, the mention of the Bidens lasted about 8 seconds of the 30 minute call and occurred toward the end of the call.

You're entitled to your own opinions, facts are facts, they belong to no one. Zelensky didn't take office till May, how could the State Dept given him a clean bill in May?

.

Yes, it's an opinion!!

Yes, Crowdstrike is part of the collusion delusion conspiracy cooked up that would help manafort and trump' s ego.

We got only 5 to 10 minutes of the call in their summary, there were ellipses... right where the alleged quid pro quo took place

Could have been June, I will look for the link... it's possible it was a State dept analysis on corruption there on its own to assess the country.

Wow more conspiracy theories, you have no proof there were any gaps in the transcripts. If you actually read the transcripts, it was clear he asked Ukraine to cooperate with the US DOJ in both instances. That's another fact, there's nothing wrong with that.

.

It is not transcript. It is a memo if a phone call. This administration, unlike prior administrations, stopped doing verbatim transcripts of calls within the first year.

Are you trying 5o say Obama was transparent?

 

[iceberg]

The Justice Department declined to open an investigation because it has become the partisan arm of the GOP and protector of Trump.

Enforcing the law is subordinate to that.

Yea Obama DOJ NEVER did anything questionable AT ALL. fucking hypocrites.

No elected official is perfect, some are better, some are worse and that applies equally to the left and the right. That said there are scumwaffle individuals. I try hard to see both sides but sometimes I think a spade is a spade and falae moral equivalencies are not going to change ut.

The way everything looks, fron the limited array of facts (not conjecture, not conspircy theory) that are available to us is that Trump might have comnitted and act of corruption, using his offoce to withold aid, and promise an oval office meeting in exchange for a favor: investigate specifically, a political rival, based on unsubstantiated allegations, and make a public notice to that effect.

There is no way to take those facts and spin it into something acceptable. It realy isnt. It really really isnt. And once we start defending this sort of abuse of power, WHERE IS THE BOTTOM?

No, Obama did not do anything approaching this. Neither did Bush. That is left and right.

We need ti stop the false comparisons.

The fact is you have no clue what maobama or Bush did, they didn't have the leaks that exist in the Trump white house. Once again Trump asked Ukraine to cooperate with the US DOJ as they look into these situations. There is nothing untoward about that.

.

The Trump administration did not ask Uktaine to cooperate with the DoJ.

Trump personally asked them to investigate Biden, not "these situations" but one specific person who just happened to be his political rival. He asked them to work with his PERSONAL lawyer in this matter.

Keep spinning the lies, it doesnt change the facts.

He asked for cooperation on the genesis of the Mueller probe and mentioned Attorney General Bar 4 times during the conversation. Biden and his son were mentioned once.

Child I'm not the one doing the spinning, that would be you.

Got to run for now, but will be back tonight.

.

I would have to agree. Remove names, labels n emotions, which is worse? The "but they did..." has gotten way out of control.

 

[CWayne]

Barr is part of the corruption. The DoJ is broken. The State Department is broken. This administration has a record number of temporary appointees, unconfirmed by a Congress, taken no oath of office, and loyal to Trump personally, not the office of the presidency, the Constitution or the country. Career diplomats suddenly recalled for no reason and replaced by idiots. What is happening now is the tip of the iceberg.


CIA's top lawyer made 'criminal referral' on complaint about Trump Ukraine call


WASHINGTON — Weeks before the whistleblower's complaint became public, the CIA's top lawyer made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the whistleblower's allegations that President Donald Trump abused his office in pressuring the Ukrainian president, U.S. officials familiar with the matter tell NBC News.

The move by the CIA's general counsel, Trump appointee Courtney Simmons Elwood, meant she and other senior officials had concluded a potential crime had been committed, raising more questions about why the Justice Department later declined to open an investigation.

The phone call that Elwood considered to be a criminal referral is in addition to the referral later received as a letter from the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community regarding the whistleblower complaint.

Justice Department officials said they were unclear whether Elwood was making a criminal referral and followed up with her later to seek clarification but she remained vague.

In the days since the anonymous whistleblower complaint was made public accusing him of wrongdoing, Trump has lashed out at his accuser and other insiders who provided the accuser with information, suggesting they were improperly spying on what was a "perfect" call between him and the Ukrainian president.

But a timeline provided by U.S. officials familiar with the matter shows that multiple senior government officials appointed by Trump found the whistleblower's complaints credible, troubling and worthy of further inquiry starting soon after the president's July phone call.

While that timeline and the CIA general counsel's contact with the Justice Department has been previously disclosed, it has not been reported that the CIA's top lawyer intended her call to be a criminal referral about the president's conduct, acting under rules set forth in a memo governing how intelligence agencies should report allegations of federal crimes.

The fact that she and other top Trump administration political appointees saw potential misconduct in the whistleblower's early account of alleged presidential abuses puts a new spotlight on the Justice Department's later decision to decline to open a criminal investigation — a decision that the Justice Department said publicly was based purely on an analysis of whether the president committed a campaign finance law violation.

"They didn't do any of the sort of bread-and-butter type investigatory steps that would flush out what potential crimes may have been committed," said Berit Berger, a former federal prosecutor who heads the Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity at Columbia Law School. "I
While that timeline and the CIA general counsel's contact with the Justice Department has been previously disclosed, it has not been reported that the CIA's top lawyer intended her call to be a criminal referral about the president's conduct, acting under rules set forth in a memo governing how intelligence agencies should report allegations of federal crimes.

The fact that she and other top Trump administration political appointees saw potential misconduct in the whistleblower's early account of alleged presidential abuses puts a new spotlight on the Justice Department's later decision to decline to open a criminal investigation — a decision that the Justice Department said publicly was based purely on an analysis of whether the president committed a campaign finance law violation.

"They didn't do any of the sort of bread-and-butter type investigatory steps that would flush out what potential crimes may have been committed," said Berit Berger, a former federal prosecutor who heads the Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity at Columbia Law School. "I don't understand the rationale for that and it's just so contrary to how normal prosecutors work. We have started investigations on far less."

Great article.. So what was "the crime"?? Apparently even BLATANT strong arming of foreign power for favors can be done by just about ANY Congress critter.. Need examples???

I need a crime to give a hoot. Not just some gossip from NBC news...

What was his crime? Haven’t said there was one, yet. That is why it needs to be investigated. And, imo, with holding promised aid in exchange for an investigation into a political rival and the promise of an Oval Office date is as blatant as it gets in strong arming.

Perhaps you haven't heard.

The Ukrainian President didn't know about the withholding of military aid and Trump never mentioned it. In fact, the withholding of the aid happened weeks before the call and was done in order to pressure NATO into paying more of their fair share of support to Ukraine.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The fact is you have no clue what maobama or Bush did, they didn't have the leaks that exist in the Trump white house.

That's because their staff didnt worry about their presidents' mental illness.