Citizen's home is raided because of a Facebook posting

[Connery]

Feel free to outline, in detail, what is necessary for something to be a raid by your definition. My guess is the problem here is not that this was not a raid, but that you haven't actually thought about the issue.

LOL

I already posted Merriam Webster's definition of a raid but that either wasn't good enough for you or it went right over your head.

As I recall, you ignored the fact that armed men on your doorstep wearing night uniforms and body armor is a de facto demonstration of hostile intent. Or did that part just go over your head when you ducked to avoid the facts?

The police did not take a chance with this situation nor should they have. I never took a chance when I was a cop. The firearm instructor can spin it anyway he wishes as can you. If you have ever been in this type of situation kindly tell what you actually did.

 

[ogibillm]

I don't automatically believe everything police say. And in this situation why wasn't he taken in for a dwi if he wss drunk? He clearly drove up while they were there no?

they may not have realized his state until later and thought better of it. And while I'd agree that it would be wise not to always believe everything the police say I have no reason to disbelieve them.

the father on the other hand seems to be an attention whore. i don't trust attention whores.

Let me get this straight, after they left, and this blew up in their face, they suddenly realized he was drunk, and you see no reason to suspect they are lying? Expect another neg in 48 hours.

OH noes! not a neg!

seriously - you guys are choosing to believe a guy that likely had been drinking over the police. and the thing is there's not much to disagree on.

i mean do you really think that the police and the social worker were there making threats and acting like an idiot or is it far more likely that it was the father?

have none of you ever seen cops?

 

[sfcalifornia]

Your perception of his experience and how he describes it hardly qualify as fact.

The police ADMITTED to demanding access to his safe. That was an attenpt to violate his rights to privacy. End of story

Police do this ALL THE TIME. They count on people not knowing their rights in order to get them to cooperate. There is no law against people cooperating. Smart people know their rights. The smartest thing the Dad did in this case was call his lawyer immediately. Dad and lawyer were smart in demanding a warrant and because there was no warrant, Dad was smart in demanding the cops leave.

LOL Seriously, have you never seen an episode of Law and Order? Even Judge Judy junkies know this.

You admit that police lie and abuse their authority all the time, and you have no problem with it.

Fuck you.

LOL

Aw, poor Gasbag....

News to him that police lie all the time.

Get with it, stupid. That's how the cops catch the crooks. By getting the crooks to trip themselves up.

 

[bodecea]

Your kidding right??

If you don't get whats wrong about everything you just posted ,you really are living within the coral.

Tell me what's wrong.

Do you think that anonymous tips should be universally ignored, or investigated?

What was wrong were the tactics and aggression used. For example DFS threatening to take his child if he doesn't open his safe.

They did? Where's the evidence of that? Did he open the safe? Was his kid taken?

 

[Ernie S.]

they may not have realized his state until later and thought better of it. And while I'd agree that it would be wise not to always believe everything the police say I have no reason to disbelieve them.

the father on the other hand seems to be an attention whore. i don't trust attention whores.

Let me get this straight, after they left, and this blew up in their face, they suddenly realized he was drunk, and you see no reason to suspect they are lying? Expect another neg in 48 hours.

OH noes! not a neg!

seriously - you guys are choosing to believe a guy that likely had been drinking over the police. and the thing is there's not much to disagree on.

i mean do you really think that the police and the social worker were there making threats and acting like an idiot or is it far more likely that it was the father?

have none of you ever seen cops?

I've not seen anything that would indicate the man was drinking.

AND

It is apparent to me that the social workers were acting like idiots. They went to the man's home with no warrant and no hope of obtaining one, gained entry and sheepishly left when instructed to do so.

The boy was seen in a picture that anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of firearms could identify as a .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle; hardly an assault weapon.
They were doing nothing illegal. The child was handling the weapon properly. There was no reason based on that photo to go to the home.

 

[bodecea]

They demanded the gentleman to open his safe so they could check his firearms to see it they were registered. They should of never asked that without a warrant.

Wrong. They can ask all they want...and frequently do. Just as the guy has the right to say no.


Now...tell us again, what did the police do wrong?

They can ask, by calling his lawyer.

Exactly....they asked...he said no. Did they force him after that? Yes or no?

 

[MikeK]

Did they cross the property line without permission? Did they try to bullshit their way through the door and intimidate the legal owners of the property?

Did they? Who's collaborating testimony do we have of this?

It was a raid.

Really? And what was seized?

Are you trying to show me that it is not a raid unless they take something? Does that mean that if the police show up in the middle of the night, serve a no knock warrant, search for someone who lives at a different house because they got the address wrong, it isn't a raid? I hope you aren't that partisan.

In keeping with that hypothesis, look at this: Botched Paramilitary Police Raids | Cato Institute

 

[Quantum Windbag]

LOL

I already posted Merriam Webster's definition of a raid but that either wasn't good enough for you or it went right over your head.

As I recall, you ignored the fact that armed men on your doorstep wearing night uniforms and body armor is a de facto demonstration of hostile intent. Or did that part just go over your head when you ducked to avoid the facts?

The police did not take a chance with this situation nor should they have. I never took a chance when I was a cop. The firearm instructor can spin it anyway he wishes as can you. If you have ever been in this type of situation kindly tell what you actually did.

I don't give a crap if the police felt justified, they weren't. They should have got a warrant if they thought there was a real problem. If they couldn't get a warrant CPS should have waited until normal business hours to check it out.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

they may not have realized his state until later and thought better of it. And while I'd agree that it would be wise not to always believe everything the police say I have no reason to disbelieve them.

the father on the other hand seems to be an attention whore. i don't trust attention whores.

Let me get this straight, after they left, and this blew up in their face, they suddenly realized he was drunk, and you see no reason to suspect they are lying? Expect another neg in 48 hours.

OH noes! not a neg!

seriously - you guys are choosing to believe a guy that likely had been drinking over the police. and the thing is there's not much to disagree on.

i mean do you really think that the police and the social worker were there making threats and acting like an idiot or is it far more likely that it was the father?

have none of you ever seen cops?

Cops lie.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Police do this ALL THE TIME. They count on people not knowing their rights in order to get them to cooperate. There is no law against people cooperating. Smart people know their rights. The smartest thing the Dad did in this case was call his lawyer immediately. Dad and lawyer were smart in demanding a warrant and because there was no warrant, Dad was smart in demanding the cops leave.

LOL Seriously, have you never seen an episode of Law and Order? Even Judge Judy junkies know this.

You admit that police lie and abuse their authority all the time, and you have no problem with it.

Fuck you.

LOL

Aw, poor Gasbag....

News to him that police lie all the time.

Get with it, stupid. That's how the cops catch the crooks. By getting the crooks to trip themselves up.

It is far from news to me. It is weird that people use the fact that cops lie as justification for them abusing their power though.

 

[Connery]

As I recall, you ignored the fact that armed men on your doorstep wearing night uniforms and body armor is a de facto demonstration of hostile intent. Or did that part just go over your head when you ducked to avoid the facts?

The police did not take a chance with this situation nor should they have. I never took a chance when I was a cop. The firearm instructor can spin it anyway he wishes as can you. If you have ever been in this type of situation kindly tell what you actually did.

I don't give a crap if the police felt justified, they weren't. They should have got a warrant if they thought there was a real problem. If they couldn't get a warrant CPS should have waited until normal business hours to check it out.

okay, your outrage is duly noted....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wrong. They can ask all they want...and frequently do. Just as the guy has the right to say no.


Now...tell us again, what did the police do wrong?

They can ask, by calling his lawyer.

Exactly....they asked...he said no. Did they force him after that? Yes or no?

Did they threaten him after that?

The answer to that question, in case you are confused, is yes. Are you going to tell me that threat is not an attempt to force him to comply? Does the fact that it failed negate the fact that they used said force?

 

[ogibillm]

They can ask, by calling his lawyer.

Exactly....they asked...he said no. Did they force him after that? Yes or no?

Did they threaten him after that?

The answer to that question, in case you are confused, is yes.

that's only the answer if you believe the drunk attention whore.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Exactly....they asked...he said no. Did they force him after that? Yes or no?

Did they threaten him after that?

The answer to that question, in case you are confused, is yes.

that's only the answer if you believe the drunk attention whore.

Since you insist that the police are telling the truth, can I point out that the police actually admitted they asked him to open his gun safe? Or would the fact that they back him up across the board, and insist that the only thing he got wrong is that they were in night uniforms and body armor instead of SWAT gear, somehow prove that your claim that he was drunk wrong?

 

[ogibillm]

Did they threaten him after that?

The answer to that question, in case you are confused, is yes.

that's only the answer if you believe the drunk attention whore.

Since you insist that the police are telling the truth, can I point out that the police actually admitted they asked him to open his gun safe? Or would the fact that they back him up across the board, and insist that the only thing he got wrong is that they were in night uniforms and body armor instead of SWAT gear, somehow prove that your claim that he was drunk wrong?

yes, they asked to see his guns.
what's the problem?
but i'm asking you why i should believe that the cops and the social workers were being belligerent and making threats instead of the father?

they give a very different story of how things happened - and part of their story is everything was fine until the father came home drunk.

why shouldn't i believe them? they aren't pushing an agenda or seeking attention, why would their credibility be questioned?

 

[sfcalifornia]

You admit that police lie and abuse their authority all the time, and you have no problem with it.

Fuck you.

LOL

Aw, poor Gasbag....

News to him that police lie all the time.

Get with it, stupid. That's how the cops catch the crooks. By getting the crooks to trip themselves up.

It is far from news to me. It is weird that people use the fact that cops lie as justification for them abusing their power though.

If the cops abused their power, they'd be held, questioned, reprimanded, suspended, fired, arrested etc. especially given the attention this incident has received. Haven't heard any report of that thus far which leads me to believe they acted within the law.

 

[bodecea]

They can ask, by calling his lawyer.

Exactly....they asked...he said no. Did they force him after that? Yes or no?

Did they threaten him after that?

The answer to that question, in case you are confused, is yes. Are you going to tell me that threat is not an attempt to force him to comply? Does the fact that it failed negate the fact that they used said force?

What was the threat, exactly?

 

[Pheonixops]

Blog: Police raid man's home over Facebook photo of son with rifle

Can you spell

POLICE STATE?

How about

LIBERAL INSANITY?

There's NOTHING Liberal about that situation. Authoritarian yes, but Liberal no.

 

[Mustang]

As I recall, you ignored the fact that armed men on your doorstep wearing night uniforms and body armor is a de facto demonstration of hostile intent. Or did that part just go over your head when you ducked to avoid the facts?

The police did not take a chance with this situation nor should they have. I never took a chance when I was a cop. The firearm instructor can spin it anyway he wishes as can you. If you have ever been in this type of situation kindly tell what you actually did.

I don't give a crap if the police felt justified, they weren't. They should have got a warrant if they thought there was a real problem. If they couldn't get a warrant CPS should have waited until normal business hours to check it out.

It was a preliminary inquiry by Child Protective Services, if I recall correctly. It was not a formal police investigation. If the preliminary inquiry aroused the suspicions of the police, they would have gotten a warrant, I can assure you.

 

[Pheonixops]

Blog: Police raid man's home over Facebook photo of son with rifle

Can you spell

POLICE STATE?

How about

LIBERAL INSANITY?

New Jersey is run by a republican governor, here are the bios for the town administration:
Carneys Point Township - Township Committee

The township is a pretty balanced one politically.
Carneys Point Township, New Jersey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia