City Digs Up Remains Of Confederate General After Taking Down Statue

[Batcat]

Then why did he say when does he get to retaliate against Democrat statues? If CSA statues are Democrat statues why are Republican MAGAs defending them?

Perhaps because Republicans like history and learning from it. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the Civil War. A statue helps bring history to life.

Democrats are more fond of altering history and brainwashing students to achieve a goal.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Perhaps because Republicans like history and learning from it. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the Civil War. A statue helps bring history to life.

Democrats are more fond of altering history and brainwashing students to achieve a goal.

But Republicans would like Republican statues yes? Why aren't they putting up statues of Grant, Thomas, Sherman, and Buell in the South if they want to remember history?

 

[Rust_Cohle]

You want to desecrate Mississippi? Have at it. Or are you saying CSA statues are Republican statues?

Then why did he say when does he get to retaliate against Democrat statues? If CSA statues are Democrat statues why are Republican MAGAs defending them?

Because this is bigger than just removing statues. This is The Theory and Practice of Oligarchial Collectivism in action. Read about it sometime

 

[Skylar]

But Republicans would like Republican statues yes? Why aren't they putting up statues of Grant, Thomas, Sherman, and Buell in the South if they want to remember history?

I'm down. The patriots that defeated murderous traitors. Sounds heroic to me.

 

[Curried Goats]

Perhaps because Republicans like history and learning from it. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the Civil War. A statue helps bring history to life.

Democrats are more fond of altering history and brainwashing students to achieve a goal.

White Americans in general love propaganda and fantasy not actual history. The veneration of slavers as dignified statesmen and heroes is the actual brainwashing and altering of history.

 

[Skylar]

White Americans in general love propaganda and fantasy not actual history. The veneration of slavers as dignified statesmen and heroes is the actual brainwashing and altering of history.

And the 'noble cause' was killing hundreds of thousands of Americans to preserve the power of the State to strip people of every right.

These murderous traitors are a blight on our history and should be scorned with the same disdain as Gobbels or Eichmann are in Germany.

 

[Batcat]

White Americans in general love propaganda and fantasy not actual history. The veneration of slavers as dignified statesmen and heroes is the actual brainwashing and altering of history.

I am not defending slavery. Keep in mind I am a Yankee. I believe the war was fought to free the slaves.

However, keep in mind that slavery was legal at that time and not uncommon in the world. Times change and often things improve. Remember back then women could not vote and young children often worked in factories.

People are not without their faults. Those who serve as our statesmen may have entirely different faults today but are far from perfect.

 

[Curried Goats]

I am not defending slavery. Keep in mind I am a Yankee. I believe the war was fought to free the slaves.

However, keep in mind that slavery was legal at that time and not uncommon in the world.

Funny, that certainly sounds like a defense. A pathetic one but one none the less.

Times change and often things improve. Remember back then women could not vote and young children often worked in factories.

That things change isnt something that im confused about though you certainly seemed to be confused by it, otherwise why would the taking down or replacing of a statue bring you such confusion and trepidation?

People are not without their faults. Those who serve as our statesmen may have entirely different faults today but are far from perfect.

So you'd be okay with statues of Hitler? Just curious how far you're willing to take this hilarious defense.

 

[Batcat]

Funny, that certainly sounds like a defense. A pathetic one but one none the less.

That things change isnt something that im confused about though you certainly seemed to be confused by it, otherwise why would the taking down or replacing of a statue bring you such confusion and trepidation?

So you'd be okay with statues of Hitler? Just curious how far you're willing to take this hilarious defense.

I happen to like history and statues help bring history to life.

There are statues of Genghis Khan.

Genghis Khan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

***snip***

His exceptional military successes made Genghis Khan one of the most important conquerors of all time, and by the end of the Great Khan's life, the Mongol Empire occupied a substantial portion of Central Asia and present-day China.[11] Genghis Khan and his story of conquest have a fearsome reputation in local histories.[12] Many medieval chroniclers and modern historians describe Genghis Khan's conquests as wholesale destruction on an unprecedented scale that led to drastic population declines in some regions as a result of both mass exterminations and famine. Estimates of the number of people who died as a consequence of Genghis Khan's military campaigns range from about four million in the most conservative estimates to up to sixty million in the most sweeping historical accounts.[13][14][15] On the other hand, Genghis Khan was also portrayed positively by medieval European authors, out of respect for the great spread of culture, technology and ideas along the Silk Road under the Mongol Empire.[16] …emphasis added

Plus there are statues of Napoleon.

And yes, there are statues of Hitler.

Controversy over Adolf Hitler statue in Warsaw ghetto

Jewish group describes statue's placement – which was not opposed by Poland's chief rabbi – as 'senseless provocation'

www.theguardian.com

Kneeling Hitler statue sells for $17.2 million

"Him," a statue of a kneeling, child-like Hitler, by the Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan, fetched $17.2 million on Sunday at a Christie's auction.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Curried Goats]

I happen to like history and statues help bring history to life.

There are statues of Genghis Khan.

View attachment 740825

View attachment 740827

Genghis Khan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

***snip***

His exceptional military successes made Genghis Khan one of the most important conquerors of all time, and by the end of the Great Khan's life, the Mongol Empire occupied a substantial portion of Central Asia and present-day China.[11] Genghis Khan and his story of conquest have a fearsome reputation in local histories.[12] Many medieval chroniclers and modern historians describe Genghis Khan's conquests as wholesale destruction on an unprecedented scale that led to drastic population declines in some regions as a result of both mass exterminations and famine. Estimates of the number of people who died as a consequence of Genghis Khan's military campaigns range from about four million in the most conservative estimates to up to sixty million in the most sweeping historical accounts.[13][14][15] On the other hand, Genghis Khan was also portrayed positively by medieval European authors, out of respect for the great spread of culture, technology and ideas along the Silk Road under the Mongol Empire.[16] …emphasis added

Plus there are statues of Napoleon.


View attachment 740838

And yes, there are statues of Hitler.

Controversy over Adolf Hitler statue in Warsaw ghetto

Jewish group describes statue's placement – which was not opposed by Poland's chief rabbi – as 'senseless provocation'

www.theguardian.com

View attachment 740839

Kneeling Hitler statue sells for $17.2 million

"Him," a statue of a kneeling, child-like Hitler, by the Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan, fetched $17.2 million on Sunday at a Christie's auction.

www.cnbc.com

View attachment 740840

I also enjoy history but I'm able to recognize how certain imagery helps distort that history. Like giving the impression slaving pieces of shit are worth venerating. I'm much more concerned with how we allow symbols and icons to shape and influence our society today more than I care whether a piece of shit like Robert E Lee gets memorialized in marble.

 

[Batcat]

I also enjoy history but I'm able to recognize how certain imagery helps distort that history. Like giving the impression slaving pieces of shit are worth venerating. I'm much more concerned with how we allow symbols and icons to shape and influence our society today more than I care whether a piece of shit like Robert E Lee gets memorialized in marble.

The Taliban also is disturbed about how certain symbols and icons shape and influence their society so they destroy them. To me they are destroying history.

What history do you guys plan to destroy next? Do you plan to destroy all statues of George Washington because he owned slaves? Perhaps burn his Mount Vernon to the ground?

The Taliban Destroyed An Enemy's Statue. It Adds Doubt Over The Claims Of Moderation

The insurgents' every action is being watched closely. They insist they have changed and won't impose the same restrictions they did when they last ruled, but many remain skeptical.

www.npr.org

KABUL, Afghanistan — The Taliban have blown up the statue of a Shiite militia leader who fought against them during Afghanistan's civil war in the 1990s, according to photos circulating on Wednesday, sowing further doubt about their claims to have become more moderate.

Taliban Trashes Ancient Statues

Troops Destroying Buddhist Relics Throughout Afghanistan

www.cbsnews.com

Using everything from tanks to rocket launchers, the radical ruling Taliban movement began smashing all statues from Afghanistan's rich cultural past Thursday, defying international appeals to save the ancient artifacts.

Taliban Information and Culture Minister Mullah Qudratullah Jamal said centers where the campaign had been unleashed included Bamiyan province — site of two soaring statues of the Buddha — 175 feet and 120 feet tall — hewn from a solid cliff that are the most famous relics of Afghanistan's history.

"All statues will be destroyed," he told reporters in the capital Kabul. "Whatever means of destruction are needed to demolish the statues will be used."[/B]

 

[Skylar]

The Taliban also is disturbed about how certain symbols and icons shape and influence their society so they destroy them. To me they are destroying history.

What history do you guys plan to destroy next? Do you plan to destroy all statues of George Washington because he owned slaves? Perhaps burn his Mount Vernon to the ground?

The Taliban Destroyed An Enemy's Statue. It Adds Doubt Over The Claims Of Moderation

The insurgents' every action is being watched closely. They insist they have changed and won't impose the same restrictions they did when they last ruled, but many remain skeptical.

www.npr.org

KABUL, Afghanistan — The Taliban have blown up the statue of a Shiite militia leader who fought against them during Afghanistan's civil war in the 1990s, according to photos circulating on Wednesday, sowing further doubt about their claims to have become more moderate.

Taliban Trashes Ancient Statues

Troops Destroying Buddhist Relics Throughout Afghanistan

www.cbsnews.com

Using everything from tanks to rocket launchers, the radical ruling Taliban movement began smashing all statues from Afghanistan's rich cultural past Thursday, defying international appeals to save the ancient artifacts.

Taliban Information and Culture Minister Mullah Qudratullah Jamal said centers where the campaign had been unleashed included Bamiyan province — site of two soaring statues of the Buddha — 175 feet and 120 feet tall — hewn from a solid cliff that are the most famous relics of Afghanistan's history.

"All statues will be destroyed," he told reporters in the capital Kabul. "Whatever means of destruction are needed to demolish the statues will be used."[/B]

Destroy history? Do you think anyone is going to FORGET that these traitorous fucks murdered hundreds of thousands of Americans to preserve the slavery?

They're a skid mark on our nation's history. A blight on our national legacy. And having statutes to honor traitors and murders makes as much sense as 'Josef Mengala Elementary' in Germany.

We should remember each and every one of these traitors and pile upon their memory the disdain and disgust they rightfully earned. They betrayed our nation, killed our servicemen, all so they could strip people of every right.....and keep them as property.

 

[Batcat]

Destroy history? Do you think anyone is going to FORGET that these traitorous fucks murdered hundreds of thousands of Americans to preserve the slavery?

They're a skid mark on our nation's history. A blight on our national legacy. And having statutes to honor traitors and murders makes as much sense as 'Josef Mengala Elementary' in Germany.

We should remember each and every one of these traitors and pile upon their memory the disdain and disgust they rightfully earned. They betrayed our nation, killed our servicemen, all so they could strip people of every right.....and keep them as property.

Well perhaps you should come down south and start fighting the war all over again by destroying and desecrating statues and icons. There are plenty of people down here that will turn you into gator bait in the swamp. I should know because I am a Yankee who has lived in Florida for the last 50 years. There are still a horde of southerners who don’t really care much for Yankees. Things have improved over the years, but hostility still exists depending on where you are at.

My advice is just to leave sleeping dogs lie. This nation is close to breaking apart anyway because people are sick of big city liberals screwing everything up. Hopefully if and when it does beak up it will be peaceful.

Democrats Seek Civil War, But Will Get Revolution

Democrats conspired with foreign agents, lied, cheated, and denied due process to Donald Trump. If they were willing to do that to a duly elected president in order to obtain power, what should Americans expect them to do to them should they refuse a...

www.americanthinker.com

One year after the January 6 insurrection, is the United States on the Verge of Break-up?

When does a country stop being a country? ( Foreign Policy in Focus) - This critical moment takes place before a civil war breaks out or an official ceremony of dissolution is held. At some point, the citizens of the country stop thinking of themselves as members of a common association. At some...

www.juancole.com

 

[gtopa1]

Destroy history? Do you think anyone is going to FORGET that these traitorous fucks murdered hundreds of thousands of Americans to preserve the slavery?

They're a skid mark on our nation's history. A blight on our national legacy. And having statutes to honor traitors and murders makes as much sense as 'Josef Mengala Elementary' in Germany.

We should remember each and every one of these traitors and pile upon their memory the disdain and disgust they rightfully earned. They betrayed our nation, killed our servicemen, all so they could strip people of every right.....and keep them as property.

Maybe you should just nuke the South. You hate them anyway.

Greg

 

[Batcat]

But Republicans would like Republican statues yes? Why aren't they putting up statues of Grant, Thomas, Sherman, and Buell in the South if they want to remember history?

Because in the South those generals are not heroes. Keep in mind that war is hell.

Now I am a Yankee who moved to the South over 50 years ago. I might like to see a statue of Sherman but my southern neighbors will remember Sherman’s March to the Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman's_March_to_the_Sea

Sherman's March to the Sea​

Sherman's March to the Sea (also known as the Savannah campaignor simply Sherman's March) was a military campaign of the American Civil War conducted through Georgia from November 15 until December 21, 1864, by William Tecumseh Sherman, major general of the Union Army. The campaign began with Sherman's troops leaving the capturedcity of Atlanta on November 15 and ended with the capture of the port of Savannah on December 21. His forces followed a "scorched earth" policy, destroying military targets as well as industry, infrastructure, and civilian property, disrupting the Confederacy's economy and transportation networks. The operation debilitated the Confederacy and helped lead to its eventual surrender. Sherman's decision to operate deep within enemy territory without supply lines was unusual for its time, and the campaign is regarded by some historians as an early example of modern warfare or total war.

Behind the Curtain: Rape and Other Horrors

Throughout history, itself a story of war, wayward warriors have used rape as a weapon. The ancient Greeks even looked the other way. Wh...

civilwarodyssey.blogspot.com

 

[Rust_Cohle]

Because in the South those generals are not heroes. Keep in mind that war is hell.

Now I am a Yankee who moved to the South over 50 years ago. I might like to see a statue of Sherman but my southern neighbors will remember Sherman’s March to the Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman's_March_to_the_Sea

Sherman's March to the Sea​

Sherman's March to the Sea (also known as the Savannah campaignor simply Sherman's March) was a military campaign of the American Civil War conducted through Georgia from November 15 until December 21, 1864, by William Tecumseh Sherman, major general of the Union Army. The campaign began with Sherman's troops leaving the capturedcity of Atlanta on November 15 and ended with the capture of the port of Savannah on December 21. His forces followed a "scorched earth" policy, destroying military targets as well as industry, infrastructure, and civilian property, disrupting the Confederacy's economy and transportation networks. The operation debilitated the Confederacy and helped lead to its eventual surrender. Sherman's decision to operate deep within enemy territory without supply lines was unusual for its time, and the campaign is regarded by some historians as an early example of modern warfare or total war.

Behind the Curtain: Rape and Other Horrors

Throughout history, itself a story of war, wayward warriors have used rape as a weapon. The ancient Greeks even looked the other way. Wh...

civilwarodyssey.blogspot.com

View attachment 740925

View attachment 740926

Sherman is a war criminal, let's dig him up next

 

[Curried Goats]

The Taliban also is disturbed about how certain symbols and icons shape and influence their society so they destroy them. To me they are destroying history.

I love this reasoning. Removing statues to slavers is as bad as the Taliban. Here's a conundrum for you though. Were the slavers this country venerated worse than the Taliban?

What history do you guys plan to destroy next?

History isn't destroyed just because there are no statues to commemorate an event. We don't need statues of Hitler in America to remind us about the Nazis and their atrocities.

Do you plan to destroy all statues of George Washington because he owned slaves?

Sure. Why not? Fuck George Washington.

Perhaps burn his Mount Vernon to the ground?

Or give it to the black descendents of the slaves he forced to work that property.

 

[JoeB131]

You can bet there are a number of Germans who are proud of their grandfathers and great grandfathers who fought in WWII.

Have you met Germans? They are STILL apologizing for World War II.
You won't find one statue of Hitler in Germany today. Or Goering, Goebbels, Keitel, etc.
Also, flying a swastika flag in Germany is illegal.

The selective penalty for swastikas in Germany – DW – 08/14/2018

Illegally displaying Nazi symbols in Germany can be punished by three years in jail. The ban broadly exempts art, but which works are allowed to show swastikas, SS sig runes and such is often more a matter of the medium.

www.dw.com

I knew one man who was a cop in Florida who said his father had been a driver for Hitler during the war and he was damn proud of that fact.

Nazi memorabilia is also popular today in the United States. I am surprised Democrats aren’t trying to destroy such items.

Among Neo-Nazis on the right. Why does the far right fly the symbols of America's enemies?

Plus the Japanese are proud of Japan’s WWII History,

Not really proud as so much in denial. To hear the Japanese tell it, WWII wasn't a big deal, incidents like the Rape of Nanking and the Bataan Death March didn't happen, and so on. Oh, yeah, and Hirohito had no idea what was going on. But what you don't see in Japan is any statues of Tojo or Yamashita or any of the other war criminals who ran Japan.

 

[JoeB131]

Perhaps because Republicans like history and learning from it. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the Civil War. A statue helps bring history to life.

Democrats are more fond of altering history and brainwashing students to achieve a goal.

Again, the alteration happened when people in the South rewrote history to make themselves the victims of the Civil War and then revoked all the rights for black people.
History isn't being altered, it is being accurately taught.

Because this is bigger than just removing statues. This is The Theory and Practice of Oligarchial Collectivism in action. Read about it sometime

Right. So you heard about some loon conspiracy theory, and it must be true.

Well perhaps you should come down south and start fighting the war all over again by destroying and desecrating statues and icons. There are plenty of people down here that will turn you into gator bait in the swamp. I should know because I am a Yankee who has lived in Florida for the last 50 years. There are still a horde of southerners who don’t really care much for Yankees. Things have improved over the years, but hostility still exists depending on where you are at.

Yes, inbreeding does make you stupid, but the reality is, those statues are coming down. It's only a matter of time.

My advice is just to leave sleeping dogs lie. This nation is close to breaking apart anyway because people are sick of big city liberals screwing everything up. Hopefully if and when it does beak up it will be peaceful.

Uh, yeah, please, please, please take up arms. It will only take a few weeks to hunt your inbred asses down, and the GOP will be done in this country.

Because in the South those generals are not heroes. Keep in mind that war is hell.

Now I am a Yankee who moved to the South over 50 years ago. I might like to see a statue of Sherman but my southern neighbors will remember Sherman’s March to the Sea.

You mean where he brought the war to a swift end? He deserves those statues.

Sherman is a war criminal, let's dig him up next

Nope, he's a war hero. More people were dying because the war had dragged on for so long.

 

[Batcat]

.

Sure. Why not? Fuck George Washington.

This is one of the best nations to live in which is why millions of people are entering our nation through the Mexican Border from all over the world.

Without George Washington this nation might not exist.

You are looking at our nation’s past history through the eyes of a modern person. Times change and attitudes change.

Washington was running a plantation. In those days large plantations had a working force of slaves. Slaves were not dirt cheap but there were no real alternatives in those days that plantation owners would have accepted. In order to be competitive, Washington’s Mount Vernon had to have slave workers. Otherwise he would have most likely went bankrupt.

Just how expensive were slaves? Expensive enough that most were were well treated.



I don't see here a cost breakdown based on skills, so here's a chart I made for a class a few years ago:

Average cost of a slave (of any age, sex, or condition) in 1850 = $ 400 ($11,300 in 2009 dollars)

Average cost of a slave (of any age, sex, or condition) in 1860 = $ 800 (#21,300 in 2009 dollars)

Cost of a prime field hand (18-30 year-old man) in 1850 = $ 1,200 ($34,000 in 2009 dollars)

Cost of a skilled slave (e.g. a blacksmith) in 1850 = $ 2,000 ($56,700 in 2009 dollars)

EDIT: Some have asked where these figures are from. They're data from the [Texas State Historical Association]

*********

Value of 2009 US Dollars today - Inflation Calculator

How much are 2009 dollars (USD) worth today? This tool calculates the time value of money based on inflation and CPI historical data from the United States.

www.inflationtool.com

Value of 2009 US Dollars today​

$100 in 2009 = $139.31 in 2022

********

Therefore a prime male field hand would cost $47,260 in today’s dollars.

********

So how did George Washington feel about his slaves?

George Washington and slavery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

George Washington (John Trumbull, 1780), with William Lee, Washington's enslaved personal servant

The history of George Washington and slavery reflects Washington's changing attitude toward enslavement. The preeminent Founding Father of the United Statesand a hereditary slaveowner, Washington became increasingly uneasy with it. Slavery was then a longstanding institution dating back over a century in Virginiawhere he lived; it was also longstanding in other American colonies and in world history. Washington's will provided for the immediate emancipation of one of his slaves, and additionally required his remaining 123 slaves to serve his wife and be freed no later than her death, so they ultimately became free one year after his death.…emphasis added

Black slavery was ingrained in the economic and social fabric of the Colony of Virginia where Washington grew up. A third generation slave-owner, at 11 years of age upon the death of his father in 1743, he inherited his first ten slaves. In adulthood his personal slaveholding grew through inheritance, purchase and the natural increase of children born into slavery. In 1759, he gained control of dowerslaves belonging to the Custis estate on his marriage to Martha Dandridge Custis. Washington's early attitudes to slavery reflected the prevailing Virginia planter views of the day and he initially demonstrated no moral qualms about the institution. In 1774, Washington publicly denounced the slave trade on moral grounds in the Fairfax Resolves. After the war, he expressed support for the abolition of slavery by a gradual legislative process, a view he shared widely but always in private, and he remained dependent on enslaved labor.

Washington had a strong work ethic and demanded the same from both hired workers and from the enslaved people who were forced to work at his command. He provided his enslaved population with basic food, clothing and accommodation comparable to general practice at the time, which was not always adequate, and with medical care. In return, he forced them to work diligently from sunrise to sunset over the six-day working week that was standard at the time. Some three-quarters of his enslaved workers labored in the fields, while the remainder worked at the main residence as domestic servants and artisans. They supplemented their diet by hunting, trapping, and growing vegetables in their free time, and bought extra rations, clothing and housewares with income from the sale of game and produce. They built their own community around marriage and family, though because Washington allocated the enslaved to farms according to the demands of the business generally without regard for their relationships, many husbands lived separately from their wives and children during the work week. Washington used both reward and punishment to manage his enslaved population, but was constantly disappointed when they failed to meet his exacting standards. A significant proportion of the enslaved population at the Mount Vernon estate resisted their enslavement by various means, such as theft to supplement food and clothing and to provide income, feigning illness, and escaping.…emphasis added.

[/i]As commander-in-chief of the Continental Army in 1775, he initially refused to accept African-Americans, free or enslaved, into the ranks, but bowed to the demands of war, and thereafter led a racially integrated army. In 1778, Washington expressed moral aversion to selling some of his enslaved workers at a public venue or splitting their families. At war's end, Washington demanded without success that the British respect the preliminary peace treaty which he said required return of escaped slaves without exception. His public statement on resigning his commission, addressing challenges facing the new confederation, made no explicit mention of slavery. Politically, Washington felt that the divisive issue of American slavery threatened national cohesion, he never spoke publicly about it, and signed laws that protected slavery as well as laws that curtailed slavery.[/i]

**************

So in his day George Washington was quite advanced in his views on slavery and freed his slaves after both he and his wife died. Still he was far from perfect in his handling of his slaves

You are entitled to your opinion but be aware 250 years from now many of the opinions and views you hold today will be viewed in a negative light. I suspect we will be viewed as totally disgusting barbarians that far in the future.