Co-Opting Christianity

[usfan]

Of course anyone who has read the Bible knows that Christianity was originally leftist:

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."
-- Acts 4:32

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
-- Luke 14:26

Unless one disbelieves the Bible, and practices some co-opted form of the religion, that is.

I would not say 'leftist' as that has a lot of other ideology with it.. but early christianity was definitely 'collectivist'. There have been many religious based collective experiments.. like in the 1st century christianity, the mayflower pact, some elements with the quakers & other early american religious groups. But the teachings from Jesus were not directed towards building an earthly utopia, & they did not work with the true nature of man.

 

[Agit8r]

Of course anyone who has read the Bible knows that Christianity was originally leftist:

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."
-- Acts 4:32

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
-- Luke 14:26

Unless one disbelieves the Bible, and practices some co-opted form of the religion, that is.

I would not say 'leftist' as that has a lot of other ideology with it.. but early christianity was definitely 'collectivist'. There have been many religious based collective experiments.. like in the 1st century christianity, the mayflower pact, some elements with the quakers & other early american religious groups. But the teachings from Jesus were not directed towards building an earthly utopia, & they did not work with the true nature of man.

But Christians are supposed to deny their own natures, and are to be guided by the Holy Spirit instead. At least according to the Bible.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Lack of critical thinking ability is another gift denied you, PC, by a loving God, for His Own Reason.

Neither Government nor Organized Religion should ever govern legally peoples' beliefs.

PC, you would destroy others' right to practice their religion if you were in charge and you did not agree.

 

[usfan]

But Christians are supposed to deny their own natures, and are to be guided by the Holy Spirit instead. At least according to the Bible.

The key word there is 'supposed'. Like the humans they are, they cannot fully attain to the standards they strive for.

But for sensible people crafting a collective enterprise, taking human nature into account, rather than ascribing perfect altruism to them is a more reasonable strategy.

Of course, we could do like Pol Pot, & simply exterminate the 'old man' in our quest to build the new, enlightened man, but they didn't have much success, either.
"As long as we have one million left, that will be enough to make the new man." ~Ieng Sary, foreign minister under Khmer Rouge

 

[Agit8r]

But Christians are supposed to deny their own natures, and are to be guided by the Holy Spirit instead. At least according to the Bible.

The key word there is 'supposed'. Like the humans they are, they cannot fully attain to the standards they strive for.

But for sensible people crafting a collective enterprise, taking human nature into account, rather than ascribing perfect altruism to them is a more reasonable strategy.

Of course, we could do like Pol Pot, & simply exterminate the 'old man' in our quest to build the new, enlightened man, but they didn't have much success, either.
"As long as we have one million left, that will be enough to make the new man." ~Ieng Sary, foreign minister under Khmer Rouge

Yes. Secularists should not co-opt collectivism.

 

[usfan]

Yes. Secularists should not co-opt collectivism.

But that still leaves us with humans as they are.. greedy, selfish, murderous, warring, & leaving the toilet seats up. How do you make a socially fit human? ..One who plays well with others, & does not try to control, or take everyone else's toys? Why should there be morality in collective human enterprises? Are they not merely extensions of the collective's morality?

 

[Agit8r]

Yes. Secularists should not co-opt collectivism.

But that still leaves us with humans as they are.. greedy, selfish, murderous, warring, & leaving the toilet seats up. How do you make a socially fit human? ..One who plays well with others, & does not try to control, or take everyone else's toys? Why should there be morality in collective human enterprises? Are they not merely extensions of the collective's morality?

One can only hope to constrain the worst behaviors of the organism, and not to delude them with myths of fate or destiny such that they act contrary to reason.

 

[usfan]

One can only hope to constrain the worst behaviors of the organism, and not to delude them with myths of fate or destiny such that they act contrary to reason.

Yeah, we've been doing that for a few decades now, & it isn't working too well, either. crime is growing, dependency is rampant, greed & corruption run unchecked in our institutions. the 'worst behaviors' seem to be getting worse, not better, with the new found liberation from moral constraints. When all you can do is tell people to 'be nice', it doesn't carry much weight as a philosophical basis.

 

[RandomVariable]

Founding Fathers saw PoliticalChic coming from over 200 years away.

 

[Agit8r]

One can only hope to constrain the worst behaviors of the organism, and not to delude them with myths of fate or destiny such that they act contrary to reason.

Yeah, we've been doing that for a few decades now, & it isn't working too well, either. crime is growing, dependency is rampant, greed & corruption run unchecked in our institutions. the 'worst behaviors' seem to be getting worse, not better, with the new found liberation from moral constraints. When all you can do is tell people to 'be nice', it doesn't carry much weight as a philosophical basis.

Then why has the crime rate been falling steadily for the last two decades?

FBI Table 3

 

[usfan]

Then why has the crime rate been falling steadily for the last two decades?]

That is a propaganda illusion, using smoke & mirrors to promote a mythical belief. It is not based on reality or real data. Crime has risen steadily in america for the last 50 yrs. Especially in the cities, where it is not even reported much of the time.

 

[Agit8r]

Then why has the crime rate been falling steadily for the last two decades?]

That is a propaganda illusion, using smoke & mirrors to promote a mythical belief. It is not based on reality or real data. Crime has risen steadily in america for the last 50 yrs. Especially in the cities, where it is not even reported much of the time.

 

[RandomVariable]

1. A little biology, here....Did you know that a virus's path to triumph is not by bringing in lots of viruses to invade a host, but, rather....
..."They get inside the host's cells and take it over.Viruses use the host cells machinery to make lots of copies, so many that the cell bursts and infects other cells around it!"
How Viruses Work - Microbe Magic
microbemagic.ucc.ie/about_microbes/viruses_work.html

Isn't that clever?


Disease particles....not truly organisms themselves.....take over the replicating mechanism of the host cell, and make the cell produce more viruses!




2. The political disease, Leftism, totalitarian governance, behaves in the same why as viruses do!
They....persuade....the most trusting and naive of individuals, the clergy, to accept the most anti-human-nature supposition.....this one:

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

a. Imagine....clergy rush to accept a failed concept of governance which has been responsible for over 100 million men, women, and children slaughtered in the last century.
Hard to believe....but true.



3. In 1907, a group of Methodists formed the Methodist Federation for Social Service (MFSS). The aim was to influence other Protestant groups. The next day, the group is received by President Theodore Roosevelt in the White House. One of the leaders, Harry F. Ward drafts a Social Creed that will be adopted by the 1908 General Conference and by the Federal Council of the Churches of Christ in America.
MFSA History Timeline
And so it begins.


4. In the early Twenties the Communist Party made considerable gains in its program to infiltrate the churches. This effort was led by such prominent "American" clergymen as Harry F. Ward ("one of the leading collaborators of, and apologists for, the Soviet Union."...), Jerome Davis, William B. Spofford, and Albert Rhys Williams. at the 1942 convention of the Federal Council of Churches called for: Ultimately,"a world government of delegated powers." Complete abandonment of U.S. isolationism. Strong immediate limitations on national sovereignty. International control of all armies and navies. A universal system of money.... Worldwide freedom of immigration. Progressive elimination of all tariff and quota restrictions on world trade .... A "democratically controlled" international bank ....
APOSTASY -- The National Council Of Churches

Communism is 'international socialism.'




5. The Social Gospel enthusiasts switched the aim from labor rights to attacks on the “profit motive,” …capitalism.

“The church, therefore, in the opinion of the federation, must accept the Marxist point of view…The federation, therefore, wants the religious leaders to preach a religious creed, not based upon the Bible and in defense of the American way of life, but one that is based upon the atheistic foundations of the philosophy of Marx.

The federation wants the ministers to declare their judgment against the social economic system under which Americans live and prosper today in favor of the Socialist system,which in Russia and the satellite countries has brought the peoples.”
Read the eBook Investigation of Communist activities in the New York City area. Hearings Volume pt. 5-6 pp. 1969-2143 by United States. Congress. House. Committee on Un-Am online for free page 22 of 24 \


6. Statism "is a philosophy of government whereby the state is not only the final ruling authority but also the ultimate agency of redemption."
R.C. Sproul "Welfare Reformed: A Compassionate Approach."

WHAT?????


All sorts of moral relativists, atheists, communists, and socialists embraced this idea, because it allows them to define justice, rights and morality. Civil magistrates can control the integrity of religion and even supplant its authority.

Welcome to the brave new world.

It is fruit bats like you that create an anti-religion culture. You want Sharia law go start your own country.

 

[amrchaos]

I am waiting for someone to point out the capitalists influence on religion--Christianity in particular.

Funny thing is, the last christian denomination to denounce both Communist and free-market Capitalism was the Catholics.

Hilarious, is it not?