Cognitive Dissonance

[ding]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

 

[Blues Man]

Refusing to acknowledge the similarity of results of running over chicks with a lawn mower or the maceration of live chicks in the egg industry is not rationalization it is compartmentalization.

That's just silly. Of course eating animals is a rationalization. You keep trying to define the rule (eating animals) by the exception (animals getting killed by lawn mowers). How many animals die from slaughter for food (rule)? How many animals die from getting run over with a lawnmower (exception)?

So do people compartmentalize the death of animals that are eaten by humans? Or do people rationalize that there is nothing wrong with it? Keep in mind that over the course of a long human life they may eat parts of an animal 87,600 times. Are you telling me that over 80 years they hide the fact from themselves that they are eating an animal? Or does it make more sense that they have rationalized that eating parts of an animal 87,600 times that it wasn't wrong?

when you say that the killing of an animal in one instance is cruel but you refuse to acknowledge that the killing of an animal for food is cruel you are compartmentalizing so as to avoid cognitive dissonance.

But I don't do that. But if I did I would be rationalizing it. Not compartmentalizing it.

So you don't think it's cruel to macerate newly hatched birds alive.

Interesting.

I think you are trying to define a rule through an exception and that it shows you don't have good arguments. As a rule, victims compartmentalize and aggressors rationalize.

You think compartmentalization only applies in cases of trauma and you are wrong, of course.

No. I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

I am applying it directly to cognitive dissonance.

Compartmentalization

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction. That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or...

www.psychologytoday.com

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction.

That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or behaviors or through strategies like compartmentalization.

Again... I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

And you think wrong again

Your refusal to acknowledge that rationalizations are the number one means of denying reality by a large margin says otherwise. As does your lack of understanding the key distinction between rationalization and compartmentalization.

rationalization and compartmentalization are 2 entirely different things.

We can rationalize behaviors and belifs but when we actually hold 2 opposing beliefs we compartmentalize. Both of thoose oppsing belifs can be rationalized on their own but not together because they are oppositional so those conflicting belifs are compartmentalized then rationalized individually.

When one compartmentalizing something they block it from their memory. When one rationalizes something they change their perception of reality. Rationalizations are not made because one has opposing beliefs. Rationalizations are because one's actions don't match one's beliefs.

No they do not block it from their memory.

Read the links to the definition of the word as it is used in psychology.

Blocking memories is dissociation.

Compartmentalize literally means to keep separate.

No shit Sherlock

It doesn't mean blocking from memory.

Same difference. It's the whole purpose of compartmentalizing. To keep from having to think about it. Whereas rationalizations are done to remove the conflict so that it can still be thought of and not needed to be compartmentalized. Rationalizations are the dominant way of denying reality. Compartmentalization is how someone ignores reality.

Compartmentalizing in no way means you never think about something. it means you are able to ignore one belief while acting on a conflicting belief.

Like believing it's cruel to run over birds with a lawn mower but then thinking it's perfectly OK for millions of other birds to be ground up alive so you can have your omelette. You compartmentalize those conflicting beliefs you don't block them from your mind

I have to say this topic has always fascinated me.

Over my life I have been as affected by it as anyone else. When I was in my early 30's I met a couple of exceptional people, a Buddhist monk and a man who was a welder but held a PhD in Philosophy. Both these men were such positive influences that to this day I am grateful to both of them for their friendship and wisdom. I don't want to think about where i would be today if I hadn't met them. Both of them have helped to live an examined life. But I digress.


Let's start with a working definition then some examples.

Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance occurs when a person's beliefs conflicts with other previously held beliefs. It describes the feelings of discomfort resulting from having the two conflicting beliefs. In order to reduce or possibly eliminate the dissonance, something must change because of the discrepancy between the person's beliefs and behaviors.

It's a simple definition for such a prevalent condition.

Examples:

One that is very relevant today is the CD that involves politicians.

People will find a way to excuse the bad deeds the person they support and to magnify the bad deeds of the person they don't support. This also manifests in being unable to credit a politician you do not support for doing something you might actually agree with and ignoring the deeds of the politician you support when they do something you disagree with.

One that I experience a lot these days is People saying they love animals but who eat animals.

Example:

A man is mowing his lawn and purposely runs over a flock of baby ducks and macerates them with the mower blades. A man with his child witness the event and call the cops. The man on the mower gets charged with animal cruelty. The witness then takes his child out to breakfast and orders scrambled eggs for himself and his child. Now the egg industry doesn't want male chicks so right after male chicks are hatched they are fed into a macerating machine where they are ground up alive. But the man calmly eats his eggs without feeling the need to call the police.

and one more

The sour grapes phenomenon. This is actually addressed in one of Aesop's fables about a fox who cannot reach grapes that he wants. He experiences cognitive dissonance and to ease his frustration; he decides the grapes must be sour and therefore undesirable.

I think we all see people do this every day.

Are we as humans cursed to live with these thoughts and behaviors that clash? Does it bother people as much as it should? Do we just accept that humans are duplicitous?

If we don't want to live a life in contradiction to our beliefs what should we do?

Delusional bullshit.. A man mowing over baby ducks is a psychopath---and needs to be removed. The chicken industry does not macerate baby chicks just because they are male. GEEBUS Christ....they are raised and then butchered as young fryers. You think an imaginary fox eating grapes is based on facts?

The egg industry does that very thing because male chicks don't lay eggs.

It seems you are misinformed.

Why the US egg industry is still killing 300 million chicks a year

Hatcheries promised to stop killing male chicks by 2020. What’s taking so long?

www.vox.com

I had no ideal that any of the companies would be doing this--what a waste. Apparently, not all of them do this.

It was pretty shocking to me when I first saw the videos of it.

I went vegan over a year ago for health reasons but I am glad I'm no longer contributing to the suffering cuased by the meat, poultry , and diary industries.

If you don't believe truth exists in and of itself how can you argue anything is right or wrong? Because it seems you are saying that what the meat, poultry , and diary industries are doing is wrong.

Where did I mention right or wrong in that post?

I stated a fact that the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals.

You implied that it is right to be a vegan because the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals. A position you can't take unless you believe there really is such a thing as objective truth which defines right and wrong based upon logical reasons.

I did no such thing I merely stated that I am a vegan for the reasons I stated. YOU are the one attaching all that other shit to a simple statement.

So there is nothing wrong with killing animals?

You seem to think it's just fine to kill animals for food. I have no authority to judge your actions.

I choose not to eat animals for my own reasons. I do not tell others what they should do.

You know what i find really interesting is when I say I don't eat meat I get a lot of flack from people yet I never say anything about what they choose to eat.

Nice assumption. Too bad it's wrong.

So you are a vegan?

No.

What part of I admit that what I do is wrong don't you understand?

I don't rationalize that what I do is right like you do. When I do wrong I admit it. You should try it sometime.

Once again you say you know eating animals is wrong but you invent reasons to keep on eating animals. THAT is rationalization

And I never said what I do is right or wrong. Judging the behaviors of others is what you do

Why can't you understand that I can choose to do something that is wrong; that I can choose to not be good? Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp. There is no rationalization. If you want to know why I choose to do wrong instead of right, just ask me.

The fact that you can't recognize that people can choose to do wrong or choose to do evil proves you believe that everyone must either do good or rationalize that they are doing good. You won't even allow for the fact that people can choose to do wrong; that people can choose to do evil. That's how much you refuse to abandon the concept of good and evil. You assume everyone must either do good or rationalize that the are doing good. I am not doing either.

your reason for knowingly doing something you think is wrong is a rationalization.

And i know people choose to do all kinds of things the question is why would anyone willingly choose to do something wrong when that wrong thing is completely unnecessary.

I posted in other thread that I used to shoplift when I was young because I didn't want to spend any time with my fucked up foster parents so I used to rationalize my shoplifting because some days the only thing i would have to eat was the couple things I could pocket. But as soon as I had the means to be able earn enough money to eat and buy clothes etc I stopped stealing stuff and I tried to make amends for my crimes by donating to food banks and clothing drives.

My reason for knowingly doing something wrong is a rationalization? Really?

So I have rationalized that I am weak and selfish for eating meat? And that makes sense to you?

You have some strange views on rationalizations. Why do you think I eat meat?

You eat meat because you enjoy it since that is the only reason to eat meat this day and age.

And how is that not selfish? And weak?

Yes, I enjoy eating meat but that's the reason I eat meat. It's not the reason I don't eat meat. The reason I don't eat meat is because I am weak and selfish.

Bullshit.

You enjoy it but you also seem to enjoy your self flagellation.

Didn't I say I enjoy it already? You got me. I do enjoy it. It's because I am selfish and weak that I keep doing it even though I admit it is wrong

You probably can't understand this because you can't conceive ever doing anything you believe is wrong. That's just because you will rationalize it away like you are trying to argue I am rationalizing it away despite my repeated statements that I know eating meat is wrong but I do it because I like it and because I am too selfish and weak to not do it.

I don't preach right and wrong like you do.

I make choices that I can live with. I really don't care if you have a hard time living with your choices.

Yes, your words don't match your behaviors. That is correct. You say you don't believe in right and wrong but you act like you do.

I do what I do for my own reasons not to be compliant to someone else's idea of right and wrong.

I don't care if you do something I wouldn't do because you and you alone are the one that has to live with your choices.

Except you always try to do right and believe that no one would continue doing wrong. AND you hold others to your views of right and wrong even if you say you don't because you argue for an absolute right and wrong which are always your views of right and wrong.

I'm perfectly fine with you making choices. I seriously couldn't care less. Why should I? I don't suffer the consequences of your choices. You do. So why should I care?

I don't believe I have the right to judge anyone else's behavior. Once again that's your thing not mine. And all I do is try to make choices I can live with and by doing that you somehow think that I am telling you how to live. That's you being defensive.

 

[Blues Man]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

 

[Blues Man]

Refusing to acknowledge the similarity of results of running over chicks with a lawn mower or the maceration of live chicks in the egg industry is not rationalization it is compartmentalization.

That's just silly. Of course eating animals is a rationalization. You keep trying to define the rule (eating animals) by the exception (animals getting killed by lawn mowers). How many animals die from slaughter for food (rule)? How many animals die from getting run over with a lawnmower (exception)?

So do people compartmentalize the death of animals that are eaten by humans? Or do people rationalize that there is nothing wrong with it? Keep in mind that over the course of a long human life they may eat parts of an animal 87,600 times. Are you telling me that over 80 years they hide the fact from themselves that they are eating an animal? Or does it make more sense that they have rationalized that eating parts of an animal 87,600 times that it wasn't wrong?

when you say that the killing of an animal in one instance is cruel but you refuse to acknowledge that the killing of an animal for food is cruel you are compartmentalizing so as to avoid cognitive dissonance.

But I don't do that. But if I did I would be rationalizing it. Not compartmentalizing it.

So you don't think it's cruel to macerate newly hatched birds alive.

Interesting.

I think you are trying to define a rule through an exception and that it shows you don't have good arguments. As a rule, victims compartmentalize and aggressors rationalize.

You think compartmentalization only applies in cases of trauma and you are wrong, of course.

No. I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

I am applying it directly to cognitive dissonance.

Compartmentalization

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction. That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or...

www.psychologytoday.com

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction.

That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or behaviors or through strategies like compartmentalization.

Again... I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

And you think wrong again

Your refusal to acknowledge that rationalizations are the number one means of denying reality by a large margin says otherwise. As does your lack of understanding the key distinction between rationalization and compartmentalization.

rationalization and compartmentalization are 2 entirely different things.

We can rationalize behaviors and belifs but when we actually hold 2 opposing beliefs we compartmentalize. Both of thoose oppsing belifs can be rationalized on their own but not together because they are oppositional so those conflicting belifs are compartmentalized then rationalized individually.

When one compartmentalizing something they block it from their memory. When one rationalizes something they change their perception of reality. Rationalizations are not made because one has opposing beliefs. Rationalizations are because one's actions don't match one's beliefs.

No they do not block it from their memory.

Read the links to the definition of the word as it is used in psychology.

Blocking memories is dissociation.

Compartmentalize literally means to keep separate.

No shit Sherlock

It doesn't mean blocking from memory.

Same difference. It's the whole purpose of compartmentalizing. To keep from having to think about it. Whereas rationalizations are done to remove the conflict so that it can still be thought of and not needed to be compartmentalized. Rationalizations are the dominant way of denying reality. Compartmentalization is how someone ignores reality.

Compartmentalizing in no way means you never think about something. it means you are able to ignore one belief while acting on a conflicting belief.

Like believing it's cruel to run over birds with a lawn mower but then thinking it's perfectly OK for millions of other birds to be ground up alive so you can have your omelette. You compartmentalize those conflicting beliefs you don't block them from your mind

I have to say this topic has always fascinated me.

Over my life I have been as affected by it as anyone else. When I was in my early 30's I met a couple of exceptional people, a Buddhist monk and a man who was a welder but held a PhD in Philosophy. Both these men were such positive influences that to this day I am grateful to both of them for their friendship and wisdom. I don't want to think about where i would be today if I hadn't met them. Both of them have helped to live an examined life. But I digress.


Let's start with a working definition then some examples.

Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance occurs when a person's beliefs conflicts with other previously held beliefs. It describes the feelings of discomfort resulting from having the two conflicting beliefs. In order to reduce or possibly eliminate the dissonance, something must change because of the discrepancy between the person's beliefs and behaviors.

It's a simple definition for such a prevalent condition.

Examples:

One that is very relevant today is the CD that involves politicians.

People will find a way to excuse the bad deeds the person they support and to magnify the bad deeds of the person they don't support. This also manifests in being unable to credit a politician you do not support for doing something you might actually agree with and ignoring the deeds of the politician you support when they do something you disagree with.

One that I experience a lot these days is People saying they love animals but who eat animals.

Example:

A man is mowing his lawn and purposely runs over a flock of baby ducks and macerates them with the mower blades. A man with his child witness the event and call the cops. The man on the mower gets charged with animal cruelty. The witness then takes his child out to breakfast and orders scrambled eggs for himself and his child. Now the egg industry doesn't want male chicks so right after male chicks are hatched they are fed into a macerating machine where they are ground up alive. But the man calmly eats his eggs without feeling the need to call the police.

and one more

The sour grapes phenomenon. This is actually addressed in one of Aesop's fables about a fox who cannot reach grapes that he wants. He experiences cognitive dissonance and to ease his frustration; he decides the grapes must be sour and therefore undesirable.

I think we all see people do this every day.

Are we as humans cursed to live with these thoughts and behaviors that clash? Does it bother people as much as it should? Do we just accept that humans are duplicitous?

If we don't want to live a life in contradiction to our beliefs what should we do?

Delusional bullshit.. A man mowing over baby ducks is a psychopath---and needs to be removed. The chicken industry does not macerate baby chicks just because they are male. GEEBUS Christ....they are raised and then butchered as young fryers. You think an imaginary fox eating grapes is based on facts?

The egg industry does that very thing because male chicks don't lay eggs.

It seems you are misinformed.

Why the US egg industry is still killing 300 million chicks a year

Hatcheries promised to stop killing male chicks by 2020. What’s taking so long?

www.vox.com

I had no ideal that any of the companies would be doing this--what a waste. Apparently, not all of them do this.

It was pretty shocking to me when I first saw the videos of it.

I went vegan over a year ago for health reasons but I am glad I'm no longer contributing to the suffering cuased by the meat, poultry , and diary industries.

If you don't believe truth exists in and of itself how can you argue anything is right or wrong? Because it seems you are saying that what the meat, poultry , and diary industries are doing is wrong.

Where did I mention right or wrong in that post?

I stated a fact that the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals.

You implied that it is right to be a vegan because the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals. A position you can't take unless you believe there really is such a thing as objective truth which defines right and wrong based upon logical reasons.

I did no such thing I merely stated that I am a vegan for the reasons I stated. YOU are the one attaching all that other shit to a simple statement.

So there is nothing wrong with killing animals?

You seem to think it's just fine to kill animals for food. I have no authority to judge your actions.

I choose not to eat animals for my own reasons. I do not tell others what they should do.

You know what i find really interesting is when I say I don't eat meat I get a lot of flack from people yet I never say anything about what they choose to eat.

Nice assumption. Too bad it's wrong.

So you are a vegan?

No.

What part of I admit that what I do is wrong don't you understand?

I don't rationalize that what I do is right like you do. When I do wrong I admit it. You should try it sometime.

Once again you say you know eating animals is wrong but you invent reasons to keep on eating animals. THAT is rationalization

And I never said what I do is right or wrong. Judging the behaviors of others is what you do

Why can't you understand that I can choose to do something that is wrong; that I can choose to not be good? Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp. There is no rationalization. If you want to know why I choose to do wrong instead of right, just ask me.

The fact that you can't recognize that people can choose to do wrong or choose to do evil proves you believe that everyone must either do good or rationalize that they are doing good. You won't even allow for the fact that people can choose to do wrong; that people can choose to do evil. That's how much you refuse to abandon the concept of good and evil. You assume everyone must either do good or rationalize that the are doing good. I am not doing either.

your reason for knowingly doing something you think is wrong is a rationalization.

And i know people choose to do all kinds of things the question is why would anyone willingly choose to do something wrong when that wrong thing is completely unnecessary.

I posted in other thread that I used to shoplift when I was young because I didn't want to spend any time with my fucked up foster parents so I used to rationalize my shoplifting because some days the only thing i would have to eat was the couple things I could pocket. But as soon as I had the means to be able earn enough money to eat and buy clothes etc I stopped stealing stuff and I tried to make amends for my crimes by donating to food banks and clothing drives.

My reason for knowingly doing something wrong is a rationalization? Really?

So I have rationalized that I am weak and selfish for eating meat? And that makes sense to you?

You have some strange views on rationalizations. Why do you think I eat meat?

You eat meat because you enjoy it since that is the only reason to eat meat this day and age.

And how is that not selfish? And weak?

Yes, I enjoy eating meat but that's the reason I eat meat. It's not the reason I don't eat meat. The reason I don't eat meat is because I am weak and selfish.

Bullshit.

You enjoy it but you also seem to enjoy your self flagellation.

Didn't I say I enjoy it already? You got me. I do enjoy it. It's because I am selfish and weak that I keep doing it even though I admit it is wrong

You probably can't understand this because you can't conceive ever doing anything you believe is wrong. That's just because you will rationalize it away like you are trying to argue I am rationalizing it away despite my repeated statements that I know eating meat is wrong but I do it because I like it and because I am too selfish and weak to not do it.

I don't preach right and wrong like you do.

I make choices that I can live with. I really don't care if you have a hard time living with your choices.

I don't have a hard time living with my choices. If I did I would rationalize my behaviors as being good and just like you do.

No you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

They aren't excuses. They are the truth. I eat meat because I like it. I am too selfish and weak not to eat meat. Those aren't excuses. They are the root cause of why I choose to do wrong. If I were less selfish and stronger I wouldn't eat meat. You can't rationalize doing wrong if you admit to doing wrong. That's called a confession. It's not a rationalization.

YOU rationalize. I don't.

Blaming your choice on character flaws is rationalizing.

The only reason you eat meat is because you like it and don't want to stop so you blame it on some character flaw that you have no control over.

 

[ding]

Refusing to acknowledge the similarity of results of running over chicks with a lawn mower or the maceration of live chicks in the egg industry is not rationalization it is compartmentalization.

That's just silly. Of course eating animals is a rationalization. You keep trying to define the rule (eating animals) by the exception (animals getting killed by lawn mowers). How many animals die from slaughter for food (rule)? How many animals die from getting run over with a lawnmower (exception)?

So do people compartmentalize the death of animals that are eaten by humans? Or do people rationalize that there is nothing wrong with it? Keep in mind that over the course of a long human life they may eat parts of an animal 87,600 times. Are you telling me that over 80 years they hide the fact from themselves that they are eating an animal? Or does it make more sense that they have rationalized that eating parts of an animal 87,600 times that it wasn't wrong?

when you say that the killing of an animal in one instance is cruel but you refuse to acknowledge that the killing of an animal for food is cruel you are compartmentalizing so as to avoid cognitive dissonance.

But I don't do that. But if I did I would be rationalizing it. Not compartmentalizing it.

So you don't think it's cruel to macerate newly hatched birds alive.

Interesting.

I think you are trying to define a rule through an exception and that it shows you don't have good arguments. As a rule, victims compartmentalize and aggressors rationalize.

You think compartmentalization only applies in cases of trauma and you are wrong, of course.

No. I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

I am applying it directly to cognitive dissonance.

Compartmentalization

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction. That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or...

www.psychologytoday.com

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction.

That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or behaviors or through strategies like compartmentalization.

Again... I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

And you think wrong again

Your refusal to acknowledge that rationalizations are the number one means of denying reality by a large margin says otherwise. As does your lack of understanding the key distinction between rationalization and compartmentalization.

rationalization and compartmentalization are 2 entirely different things.

We can rationalize behaviors and belifs but when we actually hold 2 opposing beliefs we compartmentalize. Both of thoose oppsing belifs can be rationalized on their own but not together because they are oppositional so those conflicting belifs are compartmentalized then rationalized individually.

When one compartmentalizing something they block it from their memory. When one rationalizes something they change their perception of reality. Rationalizations are not made because one has opposing beliefs. Rationalizations are because one's actions don't match one's beliefs.

No they do not block it from their memory.

Read the links to the definition of the word as it is used in psychology.

Blocking memories is dissociation.

Compartmentalize literally means to keep separate.

No shit Sherlock

It doesn't mean blocking from memory.

Same difference. It's the whole purpose of compartmentalizing. To keep from having to think about it. Whereas rationalizations are done to remove the conflict so that it can still be thought of and not needed to be compartmentalized. Rationalizations are the dominant way of denying reality. Compartmentalization is how someone ignores reality.

Compartmentalizing in no way means you never think about something. it means you are able to ignore one belief while acting on a conflicting belief.

Like believing it's cruel to run over birds with a lawn mower but then thinking it's perfectly OK for millions of other birds to be ground up alive so you can have your omelette. You compartmentalize those conflicting beliefs you don't block them from your mind

I have to say this topic has always fascinated me.

Over my life I have been as affected by it as anyone else. When I was in my early 30's I met a couple of exceptional people, a Buddhist monk and a man who was a welder but held a PhD in Philosophy. Both these men were such positive influences that to this day I am grateful to both of them for their friendship and wisdom. I don't want to think about where i would be today if I hadn't met them. Both of them have helped to live an examined life. But I digress.


Let's start with a working definition then some examples.

Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance occurs when a person's beliefs conflicts with other previously held beliefs. It describes the feelings of discomfort resulting from having the two conflicting beliefs. In order to reduce or possibly eliminate the dissonance, something must change because of the discrepancy between the person's beliefs and behaviors.

It's a simple definition for such a prevalent condition.

Examples:

One that is very relevant today is the CD that involves politicians.

People will find a way to excuse the bad deeds the person they support and to magnify the bad deeds of the person they don't support. This also manifests in being unable to credit a politician you do not support for doing something you might actually agree with and ignoring the deeds of the politician you support when they do something you disagree with.

One that I experience a lot these days is People saying they love animals but who eat animals.

Example:

A man is mowing his lawn and purposely runs over a flock of baby ducks and macerates them with the mower blades. A man with his child witness the event and call the cops. The man on the mower gets charged with animal cruelty. The witness then takes his child out to breakfast and orders scrambled eggs for himself and his child. Now the egg industry doesn't want male chicks so right after male chicks are hatched they are fed into a macerating machine where they are ground up alive. But the man calmly eats his eggs without feeling the need to call the police.

and one more

The sour grapes phenomenon. This is actually addressed in one of Aesop's fables about a fox who cannot reach grapes that he wants. He experiences cognitive dissonance and to ease his frustration; he decides the grapes must be sour and therefore undesirable.

I think we all see people do this every day.

Are we as humans cursed to live with these thoughts and behaviors that clash? Does it bother people as much as it should? Do we just accept that humans are duplicitous?

If we don't want to live a life in contradiction to our beliefs what should we do?

Delusional bullshit.. A man mowing over baby ducks is a psychopath---and needs to be removed. The chicken industry does not macerate baby chicks just because they are male. GEEBUS Christ....they are raised and then butchered as young fryers. You think an imaginary fox eating grapes is based on facts?

The egg industry does that very thing because male chicks don't lay eggs.

It seems you are misinformed.

Why the US egg industry is still killing 300 million chicks a year

Hatcheries promised to stop killing male chicks by 2020. What’s taking so long?

www.vox.com

I had no ideal that any of the companies would be doing this--what a waste. Apparently, not all of them do this.

It was pretty shocking to me when I first saw the videos of it.

I went vegan over a year ago for health reasons but I am glad I'm no longer contributing to the suffering cuased by the meat, poultry , and diary industries.

If you don't believe truth exists in and of itself how can you argue anything is right or wrong? Because it seems you are saying that what the meat, poultry , and diary industries are doing is wrong.

Where did I mention right or wrong in that post?

I stated a fact that the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals.

You implied that it is right to be a vegan because the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals. A position you can't take unless you believe there really is such a thing as objective truth which defines right and wrong based upon logical reasons.

I did no such thing I merely stated that I am a vegan for the reasons I stated. YOU are the one attaching all that other shit to a simple statement.

So there is nothing wrong with killing animals?

You seem to think it's just fine to kill animals for food. I have no authority to judge your actions.

I choose not to eat animals for my own reasons. I do not tell others what they should do.

You know what i find really interesting is when I say I don't eat meat I get a lot of flack from people yet I never say anything about what they choose to eat.

Nice assumption. Too bad it's wrong.

So you are a vegan?

No.

What part of I admit that what I do is wrong don't you understand?

I don't rationalize that what I do is right like you do. When I do wrong I admit it. You should try it sometime.

Once again you say you know eating animals is wrong but you invent reasons to keep on eating animals. THAT is rationalization

And I never said what I do is right or wrong. Judging the behaviors of others is what you do

Why can't you understand that I can choose to do something that is wrong; that I can choose to not be good? Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp. There is no rationalization. If you want to know why I choose to do wrong instead of right, just ask me.

The fact that you can't recognize that people can choose to do wrong or choose to do evil proves you believe that everyone must either do good or rationalize that they are doing good. You won't even allow for the fact that people can choose to do wrong; that people can choose to do evil. That's how much you refuse to abandon the concept of good and evil. You assume everyone must either do good or rationalize that the are doing good. I am not doing either.

your reason for knowingly doing something you think is wrong is a rationalization.

And i know people choose to do all kinds of things the question is why would anyone willingly choose to do something wrong when that wrong thing is completely unnecessary.

I posted in other thread that I used to shoplift when I was young because I didn't want to spend any time with my fucked up foster parents so I used to rationalize my shoplifting because some days the only thing i would have to eat was the couple things I could pocket. But as soon as I had the means to be able earn enough money to eat and buy clothes etc I stopped stealing stuff and I tried to make amends for my crimes by donating to food banks and clothing drives.

My reason for knowingly doing something wrong is a rationalization? Really?

So I have rationalized that I am weak and selfish for eating meat? And that makes sense to you?

You have some strange views on rationalizations. Why do you think I eat meat?

You eat meat because you enjoy it since that is the only reason to eat meat this day and age.

And how is that not selfish? And weak?

Yes, I enjoy eating meat but that's the reason I eat meat. It's not the reason I don't eat meat. The reason I don't eat meat is because I am weak and selfish.

Bullshit.

You enjoy it but you also seem to enjoy your self flagellation.

Didn't I say I enjoy it already? You got me. I do enjoy it. It's because I am selfish and weak that I keep doing it even though I admit it is wrong

You probably can't understand this because you can't conceive ever doing anything you believe is wrong. That's just because you will rationalize it away like you are trying to argue I am rationalizing it away despite my repeated statements that I know eating meat is wrong but I do it because I like it and because I am too selfish and weak to not do it.

I don't preach right and wrong like you do.

I make choices that I can live with. I really don't care if you have a hard time living with your choices.

Yes, your words don't match your behaviors. That is correct. You say you don't believe in right and wrong but you act like you do.

I do what I do for my own reasons not to be compliant to someone else's idea of right and wrong.

I don't care if you do something I wouldn't do because you and you alone are the one that has to live with your choices.

Except you always try to do right and believe that no one would continue doing wrong. AND you hold others to your views of right and wrong even if you say you don't because you argue for an absolute right and wrong which are always your views of right and wrong.

I'm perfectly fine with you making choices. I seriously couldn't care less. Why should I? I don't suffer the consequences of your choices. You do. So why should I care?

I don't believe I have the right to judge anyone else's behavior. Once again that's your thing not mine. And all I do is try to make choices I can live with and by doing that you somehow think that I am telling you how to live. That's you being defensive.

You just judge the person

Which is worse.

I don't judge the person because that's one of the ways bias is created. I judge behaviors and actions because that's how lessons are learned.

 

[ding]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

 

[Blues Man]

Refusing to acknowledge the similarity of results of running over chicks with a lawn mower or the maceration of live chicks in the egg industry is not rationalization it is compartmentalization.

That's just silly. Of course eating animals is a rationalization. You keep trying to define the rule (eating animals) by the exception (animals getting killed by lawn mowers). How many animals die from slaughter for food (rule)? How many animals die from getting run over with a lawnmower (exception)?

So do people compartmentalize the death of animals that are eaten by humans? Or do people rationalize that there is nothing wrong with it? Keep in mind that over the course of a long human life they may eat parts of an animal 87,600 times. Are you telling me that over 80 years they hide the fact from themselves that they are eating an animal? Or does it make more sense that they have rationalized that eating parts of an animal 87,600 times that it wasn't wrong?

when you say that the killing of an animal in one instance is cruel but you refuse to acknowledge that the killing of an animal for food is cruel you are compartmentalizing so as to avoid cognitive dissonance.

But I don't do that. But if I did I would be rationalizing it. Not compartmentalizing it.

So you don't think it's cruel to macerate newly hatched birds alive.

Interesting.

I think you are trying to define a rule through an exception and that it shows you don't have good arguments. As a rule, victims compartmentalize and aggressors rationalize.

You think compartmentalization only applies in cases of trauma and you are wrong, of course.

No. I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

I am applying it directly to cognitive dissonance.

Compartmentalization

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction. That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or...

www.psychologytoday.com

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction.

That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or behaviors or through strategies like compartmentalization.

Again... I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

And you think wrong again

Your refusal to acknowledge that rationalizations are the number one means of denying reality by a large margin says otherwise. As does your lack of understanding the key distinction between rationalization and compartmentalization.

rationalization and compartmentalization are 2 entirely different things.

We can rationalize behaviors and belifs but when we actually hold 2 opposing beliefs we compartmentalize. Both of thoose oppsing belifs can be rationalized on their own but not together because they are oppositional so those conflicting belifs are compartmentalized then rationalized individually.

When one compartmentalizing something they block it from their memory. When one rationalizes something they change their perception of reality. Rationalizations are not made because one has opposing beliefs. Rationalizations are because one's actions don't match one's beliefs.

No they do not block it from their memory.

Read the links to the definition of the word as it is used in psychology.

Blocking memories is dissociation.

Compartmentalize literally means to keep separate.

No shit Sherlock

It doesn't mean blocking from memory.

Same difference. It's the whole purpose of compartmentalizing. To keep from having to think about it. Whereas rationalizations are done to remove the conflict so that it can still be thought of and not needed to be compartmentalized. Rationalizations are the dominant way of denying reality. Compartmentalization is how someone ignores reality.

Compartmentalizing in no way means you never think about something. it means you are able to ignore one belief while acting on a conflicting belief.

Like believing it's cruel to run over birds with a lawn mower but then thinking it's perfectly OK for millions of other birds to be ground up alive so you can have your omelette. You compartmentalize those conflicting beliefs you don't block them from your mind

I have to say this topic has always fascinated me.

Over my life I have been as affected by it as anyone else. When I was in my early 30's I met a couple of exceptional people, a Buddhist monk and a man who was a welder but held a PhD in Philosophy. Both these men were such positive influences that to this day I am grateful to both of them for their friendship and wisdom. I don't want to think about where i would be today if I hadn't met them. Both of them have helped to live an examined life. But I digress.


Let's start with a working definition then some examples.

Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance occurs when a person's beliefs conflicts with other previously held beliefs. It describes the feelings of discomfort resulting from having the two conflicting beliefs. In order to reduce or possibly eliminate the dissonance, something must change because of the discrepancy between the person's beliefs and behaviors.

It's a simple definition for such a prevalent condition.

Examples:

One that is very relevant today is the CD that involves politicians.

People will find a way to excuse the bad deeds the person they support and to magnify the bad deeds of the person they don't support. This also manifests in being unable to credit a politician you do not support for doing something you might actually agree with and ignoring the deeds of the politician you support when they do something you disagree with.

One that I experience a lot these days is People saying they love animals but who eat animals.

Example:

A man is mowing his lawn and purposely runs over a flock of baby ducks and macerates them with the mower blades. A man with his child witness the event and call the cops. The man on the mower gets charged with animal cruelty. The witness then takes his child out to breakfast and orders scrambled eggs for himself and his child. Now the egg industry doesn't want male chicks so right after male chicks are hatched they are fed into a macerating machine where they are ground up alive. But the man calmly eats his eggs without feeling the need to call the police.

and one more

The sour grapes phenomenon. This is actually addressed in one of Aesop's fables about a fox who cannot reach grapes that he wants. He experiences cognitive dissonance and to ease his frustration; he decides the grapes must be sour and therefore undesirable.

I think we all see people do this every day.

Are we as humans cursed to live with these thoughts and behaviors that clash? Does it bother people as much as it should? Do we just accept that humans are duplicitous?

If we don't want to live a life in contradiction to our beliefs what should we do?

Delusional bullshit.. A man mowing over baby ducks is a psychopath---and needs to be removed. The chicken industry does not macerate baby chicks just because they are male. GEEBUS Christ....they are raised and then butchered as young fryers. You think an imaginary fox eating grapes is based on facts?

The egg industry does that very thing because male chicks don't lay eggs.

It seems you are misinformed.

Why the US egg industry is still killing 300 million chicks a year

Hatcheries promised to stop killing male chicks by 2020. What’s taking so long?

www.vox.com

I had no ideal that any of the companies would be doing this--what a waste. Apparently, not all of them do this.

It was pretty shocking to me when I first saw the videos of it.

I went vegan over a year ago for health reasons but I am glad I'm no longer contributing to the suffering cuased by the meat, poultry , and diary industries.

If you don't believe truth exists in and of itself how can you argue anything is right or wrong? Because it seems you are saying that what the meat, poultry , and diary industries are doing is wrong.

Where did I mention right or wrong in that post?

I stated a fact that the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals.

You implied that it is right to be a vegan because the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals. A position you can't take unless you believe there really is such a thing as objective truth which defines right and wrong based upon logical reasons.

I did no such thing I merely stated that I am a vegan for the reasons I stated. YOU are the one attaching all that other shit to a simple statement.

So there is nothing wrong with killing animals?

You seem to think it's just fine to kill animals for food. I have no authority to judge your actions.

I choose not to eat animals for my own reasons. I do not tell others what they should do.

You know what i find really interesting is when I say I don't eat meat I get a lot of flack from people yet I never say anything about what they choose to eat.

Nice assumption. Too bad it's wrong.

So you are a vegan?

No.

What part of I admit that what I do is wrong don't you understand?

I don't rationalize that what I do is right like you do. When I do wrong I admit it. You should try it sometime.

Once again you say you know eating animals is wrong but you invent reasons to keep on eating animals. THAT is rationalization

And I never said what I do is right or wrong. Judging the behaviors of others is what you do

Why can't you understand that I can choose to do something that is wrong; that I can choose to not be good? Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp. There is no rationalization. If you want to know why I choose to do wrong instead of right, just ask me.

The fact that you can't recognize that people can choose to do wrong or choose to do evil proves you believe that everyone must either do good or rationalize that they are doing good. You won't even allow for the fact that people can choose to do wrong; that people can choose to do evil. That's how much you refuse to abandon the concept of good and evil. You assume everyone must either do good or rationalize that the are doing good. I am not doing either.

your reason for knowingly doing something you think is wrong is a rationalization.

And i know people choose to do all kinds of things the question is why would anyone willingly choose to do something wrong when that wrong thing is completely unnecessary.

I posted in other thread that I used to shoplift when I was young because I didn't want to spend any time with my fucked up foster parents so I used to rationalize my shoplifting because some days the only thing i would have to eat was the couple things I could pocket. But as soon as I had the means to be able earn enough money to eat and buy clothes etc I stopped stealing stuff and I tried to make amends for my crimes by donating to food banks and clothing drives.

My reason for knowingly doing something wrong is a rationalization? Really?

So I have rationalized that I am weak and selfish for eating meat? And that makes sense to you?

You have some strange views on rationalizations. Why do you think I eat meat?

You eat meat because you enjoy it since that is the only reason to eat meat this day and age.

And how is that not selfish? And weak?

Yes, I enjoy eating meat but that's the reason I eat meat. It's not the reason I don't eat meat. The reason I don't eat meat is because I am weak and selfish.

Bullshit.

You enjoy it but you also seem to enjoy your self flagellation.

Didn't I say I enjoy it already? You got me. I do enjoy it. It's because I am selfish and weak that I keep doing it even though I admit it is wrong

You probably can't understand this because you can't conceive ever doing anything you believe is wrong. That's just because you will rationalize it away like you are trying to argue I am rationalizing it away despite my repeated statements that I know eating meat is wrong but I do it because I like it and because I am too selfish and weak to not do it.

I don't preach right and wrong like you do.

I make choices that I can live with. I really don't care if you have a hard time living with your choices.

Yes, your words don't match your behaviors. That is correct. You say you don't believe in right and wrong but you act like you do.

I do what I do for my own reasons not to be compliant to someone else's idea of right and wrong.

I don't care if you do something I wouldn't do because you and you alone are the one that has to live with your choices.

Except you always try to do right and believe that no one would continue doing wrong. AND you hold others to your views of right and wrong even if you say you don't because you argue for an absolute right and wrong which are always your views of right and wrong.

I'm perfectly fine with you making choices. I seriously couldn't care less. Why should I? I don't suffer the consequences of your choices. You do. So why should I care?

I don't believe I have the right to judge anyone else's behavior. Once again that's your thing not mine. And all I do is try to make choices I can live with and by doing that you somehow think that I am telling you how to live. That's you being defensive.

You just judge the person

Which is worse.

I don't judge the person because that's one of the ways bias is created. I judge behaviors and actions because that's how lessons are learned.

A person is nothing but the sum total of his thoughts and actions

by judging actions you judge the person because all actions are chosen by the person carrying them out.

By your own admission

You choose to be selfish
You choose to be weak

So you are judging yourself not just your actions

Behaviors don't occur in a vacuum as they all begin with a thought and that thought originates in the person. They cannot be separated

 

[ding]

Refusing to acknowledge the similarity of results of running over chicks with a lawn mower or the maceration of live chicks in the egg industry is not rationalization it is compartmentalization.

That's just silly. Of course eating animals is a rationalization. You keep trying to define the rule (eating animals) by the exception (animals getting killed by lawn mowers). How many animals die from slaughter for food (rule)? How many animals die from getting run over with a lawnmower (exception)?

So do people compartmentalize the death of animals that are eaten by humans? Or do people rationalize that there is nothing wrong with it? Keep in mind that over the course of a long human life they may eat parts of an animal 87,600 times. Are you telling me that over 80 years they hide the fact from themselves that they are eating an animal? Or does it make more sense that they have rationalized that eating parts of an animal 87,600 times that it wasn't wrong?

when you say that the killing of an animal in one instance is cruel but you refuse to acknowledge that the killing of an animal for food is cruel you are compartmentalizing so as to avoid cognitive dissonance.

But I don't do that. But if I did I would be rationalizing it. Not compartmentalizing it.

So you don't think it's cruel to macerate newly hatched birds alive.

Interesting.

I think you are trying to define a rule through an exception and that it shows you don't have good arguments. As a rule, victims compartmentalize and aggressors rationalize.

You think compartmentalization only applies in cases of trauma and you are wrong, of course.

No. I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

I am applying it directly to cognitive dissonance.

Compartmentalization

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction. That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or...

www.psychologytoday.com

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction.

That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or behaviors or through strategies like compartmentalization.

Again... I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

And you think wrong again

Your refusal to acknowledge that rationalizations are the number one means of denying reality by a large margin says otherwise. As does your lack of understanding the key distinction between rationalization and compartmentalization.

rationalization and compartmentalization are 2 entirely different things.

We can rationalize behaviors and belifs but when we actually hold 2 opposing beliefs we compartmentalize. Both of thoose oppsing belifs can be rationalized on their own but not together because they are oppositional so those conflicting belifs are compartmentalized then rationalized individually.

When one compartmentalizing something they block it from their memory. When one rationalizes something they change their perception of reality. Rationalizations are not made because one has opposing beliefs. Rationalizations are because one's actions don't match one's beliefs.

No they do not block it from their memory.

Read the links to the definition of the word as it is used in psychology.

Blocking memories is dissociation.

Compartmentalize literally means to keep separate.

No shit Sherlock

It doesn't mean blocking from memory.

Same difference. It's the whole purpose of compartmentalizing. To keep from having to think about it. Whereas rationalizations are done to remove the conflict so that it can still be thought of and not needed to be compartmentalized. Rationalizations are the dominant way of denying reality. Compartmentalization is how someone ignores reality.

Compartmentalizing in no way means you never think about something. it means you are able to ignore one belief while acting on a conflicting belief.

Like believing it's cruel to run over birds with a lawn mower but then thinking it's perfectly OK for millions of other birds to be ground up alive so you can have your omelette. You compartmentalize those conflicting beliefs you don't block them from your mind

I have to say this topic has always fascinated me.

Over my life I have been as affected by it as anyone else. When I was in my early 30's I met a couple of exceptional people, a Buddhist monk and a man who was a welder but held a PhD in Philosophy. Both these men were such positive influences that to this day I am grateful to both of them for their friendship and wisdom. I don't want to think about where i would be today if I hadn't met them. Both of them have helped to live an examined life. But I digress.


Let's start with a working definition then some examples.

Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance occurs when a person's beliefs conflicts with other previously held beliefs. It describes the feelings of discomfort resulting from having the two conflicting beliefs. In order to reduce or possibly eliminate the dissonance, something must change because of the discrepancy between the person's beliefs and behaviors.

It's a simple definition for such a prevalent condition.

Examples:

One that is very relevant today is the CD that involves politicians.

People will find a way to excuse the bad deeds the person they support and to magnify the bad deeds of the person they don't support. This also manifests in being unable to credit a politician you do not support for doing something you might actually agree with and ignoring the deeds of the politician you support when they do something you disagree with.

One that I experience a lot these days is People saying they love animals but who eat animals.

Example:

A man is mowing his lawn and purposely runs over a flock of baby ducks and macerates them with the mower blades. A man with his child witness the event and call the cops. The man on the mower gets charged with animal cruelty. The witness then takes his child out to breakfast and orders scrambled eggs for himself and his child. Now the egg industry doesn't want male chicks so right after male chicks are hatched they are fed into a macerating machine where they are ground up alive. But the man calmly eats his eggs without feeling the need to call the police.

and one more

The sour grapes phenomenon. This is actually addressed in one of Aesop's fables about a fox who cannot reach grapes that he wants. He experiences cognitive dissonance and to ease his frustration; he decides the grapes must be sour and therefore undesirable.

I think we all see people do this every day.

Are we as humans cursed to live with these thoughts and behaviors that clash? Does it bother people as much as it should? Do we just accept that humans are duplicitous?

If we don't want to live a life in contradiction to our beliefs what should we do?

Delusional bullshit.. A man mowing over baby ducks is a psychopath---and needs to be removed. The chicken industry does not macerate baby chicks just because they are male. GEEBUS Christ....they are raised and then butchered as young fryers. You think an imaginary fox eating grapes is based on facts?

The egg industry does that very thing because male chicks don't lay eggs.

It seems you are misinformed.

Why the US egg industry is still killing 300 million chicks a year

Hatcheries promised to stop killing male chicks by 2020. What’s taking so long?

www.vox.com

I had no ideal that any of the companies would be doing this--what a waste. Apparently, not all of them do this.

It was pretty shocking to me when I first saw the videos of it.

I went vegan over a year ago for health reasons but I am glad I'm no longer contributing to the suffering cuased by the meat, poultry , and diary industries.

If you don't believe truth exists in and of itself how can you argue anything is right or wrong? Because it seems you are saying that what the meat, poultry , and diary industries are doing is wrong.

Where did I mention right or wrong in that post?

I stated a fact that the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals.

You implied that it is right to be a vegan because the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals. A position you can't take unless you believe there really is such a thing as objective truth which defines right and wrong based upon logical reasons.

I did no such thing I merely stated that I am a vegan for the reasons I stated. YOU are the one attaching all that other shit to a simple statement.

So there is nothing wrong with killing animals?

You seem to think it's just fine to kill animals for food. I have no authority to judge your actions.

I choose not to eat animals for my own reasons. I do not tell others what they should do.

You know what i find really interesting is when I say I don't eat meat I get a lot of flack from people yet I never say anything about what they choose to eat.

Nice assumption. Too bad it's wrong.

So you are a vegan?

No.

What part of I admit that what I do is wrong don't you understand?

I don't rationalize that what I do is right like you do. When I do wrong I admit it. You should try it sometime.

Once again you say you know eating animals is wrong but you invent reasons to keep on eating animals. THAT is rationalization

And I never said what I do is right or wrong. Judging the behaviors of others is what you do

Why can't you understand that I can choose to do something that is wrong; that I can choose to not be good? Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp. There is no rationalization. If you want to know why I choose to do wrong instead of right, just ask me.

The fact that you can't recognize that people can choose to do wrong or choose to do evil proves you believe that everyone must either do good or rationalize that they are doing good. You won't even allow for the fact that people can choose to do wrong; that people can choose to do evil. That's how much you refuse to abandon the concept of good and evil. You assume everyone must either do good or rationalize that the are doing good. I am not doing either.

your reason for knowingly doing something you think is wrong is a rationalization.

And i know people choose to do all kinds of things the question is why would anyone willingly choose to do something wrong when that wrong thing is completely unnecessary.

I posted in other thread that I used to shoplift when I was young because I didn't want to spend any time with my fucked up foster parents so I used to rationalize my shoplifting because some days the only thing i would have to eat was the couple things I could pocket. But as soon as I had the means to be able earn enough money to eat and buy clothes etc I stopped stealing stuff and I tried to make amends for my crimes by donating to food banks and clothing drives.

My reason for knowingly doing something wrong is a rationalization? Really?

So I have rationalized that I am weak and selfish for eating meat? And that makes sense to you?

You have some strange views on rationalizations. Why do you think I eat meat?

You eat meat because you enjoy it since that is the only reason to eat meat this day and age.

And how is that not selfish? And weak?

Yes, I enjoy eating meat but that's the reason I eat meat. It's not the reason I don't eat meat. The reason I don't eat meat is because I am weak and selfish.

Bullshit.

You enjoy it but you also seem to enjoy your self flagellation.

Didn't I say I enjoy it already? You got me. I do enjoy it. It's because I am selfish and weak that I keep doing it even though I admit it is wrong

You probably can't understand this because you can't conceive ever doing anything you believe is wrong. That's just because you will rationalize it away like you are trying to argue I am rationalizing it away despite my repeated statements that I know eating meat is wrong but I do it because I like it and because I am too selfish and weak to not do it.

I don't preach right and wrong like you do.

I make choices that I can live with. I really don't care if you have a hard time living with your choices.

I don't have a hard time living with my choices. If I did I would rationalize my behaviors as being good and just like you do.

No you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

They aren't excuses. They are the truth. I eat meat because I like it. I am too selfish and weak not to eat meat. Those aren't excuses. They are the root cause of why I choose to do wrong. If I were less selfish and stronger I wouldn't eat meat. You can't rationalize doing wrong if you admit to doing wrong. That's called a confession. It's not a rationalization.

YOU rationalize. I don't.

Blaming your choice on character flaws is rationalizing.

The only reason you eat meat is because you like it and don't want to stop so you blame it on some character flaw that you have no control over.

Being selfish and weak are indeed character flaws. Admitting one's character flaws are not rationalizations. They are confessions.

Again... the reason I eat meat is because I enjoy it and am too selfish and weak to stop. Apparently you believe anyone who doesn't do perfect things rationalizes even though you don't hold your self to that same standard. Hypocrisy anyone?

 

[ding]

Refusing to acknowledge the similarity of results of running over chicks with a lawn mower or the maceration of live chicks in the egg industry is not rationalization it is compartmentalization.

That's just silly. Of course eating animals is a rationalization. You keep trying to define the rule (eating animals) by the exception (animals getting killed by lawn mowers). How many animals die from slaughter for food (rule)? How many animals die from getting run over with a lawnmower (exception)?

So do people compartmentalize the death of animals that are eaten by humans? Or do people rationalize that there is nothing wrong with it? Keep in mind that over the course of a long human life they may eat parts of an animal 87,600 times. Are you telling me that over 80 years they hide the fact from themselves that they are eating an animal? Or does it make more sense that they have rationalized that eating parts of an animal 87,600 times that it wasn't wrong?

when you say that the killing of an animal in one instance is cruel but you refuse to acknowledge that the killing of an animal for food is cruel you are compartmentalizing so as to avoid cognitive dissonance.

But I don't do that. But if I did I would be rationalizing it. Not compartmentalizing it.

So you don't think it's cruel to macerate newly hatched birds alive.

Interesting.

I think you are trying to define a rule through an exception and that it shows you don't have good arguments. As a rule, victims compartmentalize and aggressors rationalize.

You think compartmentalization only applies in cases of trauma and you are wrong, of course.

No. I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

I am applying it directly to cognitive dissonance.

Compartmentalization

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction. That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or...

www.psychologytoday.com

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction.

That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or behaviors or through strategies like compartmentalization.

Again... I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

And you think wrong again

Your refusal to acknowledge that rationalizations are the number one means of denying reality by a large margin says otherwise. As does your lack of understanding the key distinction between rationalization and compartmentalization.

rationalization and compartmentalization are 2 entirely different things.

We can rationalize behaviors and belifs but when we actually hold 2 opposing beliefs we compartmentalize. Both of thoose oppsing belifs can be rationalized on their own but not together because they are oppositional so those conflicting belifs are compartmentalized then rationalized individually.

When one compartmentalizing something they block it from their memory. When one rationalizes something they change their perception of reality. Rationalizations are not made because one has opposing beliefs. Rationalizations are because one's actions don't match one's beliefs.

No they do not block it from their memory.

Read the links to the definition of the word as it is used in psychology.

Blocking memories is dissociation.

Compartmentalize literally means to keep separate.

No shit Sherlock

It doesn't mean blocking from memory.

Same difference. It's the whole purpose of compartmentalizing. To keep from having to think about it. Whereas rationalizations are done to remove the conflict so that it can still be thought of and not needed to be compartmentalized. Rationalizations are the dominant way of denying reality. Compartmentalization is how someone ignores reality.

Compartmentalizing in no way means you never think about something. it means you are able to ignore one belief while acting on a conflicting belief.

Like believing it's cruel to run over birds with a lawn mower but then thinking it's perfectly OK for millions of other birds to be ground up alive so you can have your omelette. You compartmentalize those conflicting beliefs you don't block them from your mind

I have to say this topic has always fascinated me.

Over my life I have been as affected by it as anyone else. When I was in my early 30's I met a couple of exceptional people, a Buddhist monk and a man who was a welder but held a PhD in Philosophy. Both these men were such positive influences that to this day I am grateful to both of them for their friendship and wisdom. I don't want to think about where i would be today if I hadn't met them. Both of them have helped to live an examined life. But I digress.


Let's start with a working definition then some examples.

Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance occurs when a person's beliefs conflicts with other previously held beliefs. It describes the feelings of discomfort resulting from having the two conflicting beliefs. In order to reduce or possibly eliminate the dissonance, something must change because of the discrepancy between the person's beliefs and behaviors.

It's a simple definition for such a prevalent condition.

Examples:

One that is very relevant today is the CD that involves politicians.

People will find a way to excuse the bad deeds the person they support and to magnify the bad deeds of the person they don't support. This also manifests in being unable to credit a politician you do not support for doing something you might actually agree with and ignoring the deeds of the politician you support when they do something you disagree with.

One that I experience a lot these days is People saying they love animals but who eat animals.

Example:

A man is mowing his lawn and purposely runs over a flock of baby ducks and macerates them with the mower blades. A man with his child witness the event and call the cops. The man on the mower gets charged with animal cruelty. The witness then takes his child out to breakfast and orders scrambled eggs for himself and his child. Now the egg industry doesn't want male chicks so right after male chicks are hatched they are fed into a macerating machine where they are ground up alive. But the man calmly eats his eggs without feeling the need to call the police.

and one more

The sour grapes phenomenon. This is actually addressed in one of Aesop's fables about a fox who cannot reach grapes that he wants. He experiences cognitive dissonance and to ease his frustration; he decides the grapes must be sour and therefore undesirable.

I think we all see people do this every day.

Are we as humans cursed to live with these thoughts and behaviors that clash? Does it bother people as much as it should? Do we just accept that humans are duplicitous?

If we don't want to live a life in contradiction to our beliefs what should we do?

Delusional bullshit.. A man mowing over baby ducks is a psychopath---and needs to be removed. The chicken industry does not macerate baby chicks just because they are male. GEEBUS Christ....they are raised and then butchered as young fryers. You think an imaginary fox eating grapes is based on facts?

The egg industry does that very thing because male chicks don't lay eggs.

It seems you are misinformed.

Why the US egg industry is still killing 300 million chicks a year

Hatcheries promised to stop killing male chicks by 2020. What’s taking so long?

www.vox.com

I had no ideal that any of the companies would be doing this--what a waste. Apparently, not all of them do this.

It was pretty shocking to me when I first saw the videos of it.

I went vegan over a year ago for health reasons but I am glad I'm no longer contributing to the suffering cuased by the meat, poultry , and diary industries.

If you don't believe truth exists in and of itself how can you argue anything is right or wrong? Because it seems you are saying that what the meat, poultry , and diary industries are doing is wrong.

Where did I mention right or wrong in that post?

I stated a fact that the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals.

You implied that it is right to be a vegan because the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals. A position you can't take unless you believe there really is such a thing as objective truth which defines right and wrong based upon logical reasons.

I did no such thing I merely stated that I am a vegan for the reasons I stated. YOU are the one attaching all that other shit to a simple statement.

So there is nothing wrong with killing animals?

You seem to think it's just fine to kill animals for food. I have no authority to judge your actions.

I choose not to eat animals for my own reasons. I do not tell others what they should do.

You know what i find really interesting is when I say I don't eat meat I get a lot of flack from people yet I never say anything about what they choose to eat.

Nice assumption. Too bad it's wrong.

So you are a vegan?

No.

What part of I admit that what I do is wrong don't you understand?

I don't rationalize that what I do is right like you do. When I do wrong I admit it. You should try it sometime.

Once again you say you know eating animals is wrong but you invent reasons to keep on eating animals. THAT is rationalization

And I never said what I do is right or wrong. Judging the behaviors of others is what you do

Why can't you understand that I can choose to do something that is wrong; that I can choose to not be good? Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp. There is no rationalization. If you want to know why I choose to do wrong instead of right, just ask me.

The fact that you can't recognize that people can choose to do wrong or choose to do evil proves you believe that everyone must either do good or rationalize that they are doing good. You won't even allow for the fact that people can choose to do wrong; that people can choose to do evil. That's how much you refuse to abandon the concept of good and evil. You assume everyone must either do good or rationalize that the are doing good. I am not doing either.

your reason for knowingly doing something you think is wrong is a rationalization.

And i know people choose to do all kinds of things the question is why would anyone willingly choose to do something wrong when that wrong thing is completely unnecessary.

I posted in other thread that I used to shoplift when I was young because I didn't want to spend any time with my fucked up foster parents so I used to rationalize my shoplifting because some days the only thing i would have to eat was the couple things I could pocket. But as soon as I had the means to be able earn enough money to eat and buy clothes etc I stopped stealing stuff and I tried to make amends for my crimes by donating to food banks and clothing drives.

My reason for knowingly doing something wrong is a rationalization? Really?

So I have rationalized that I am weak and selfish for eating meat? And that makes sense to you?

You have some strange views on rationalizations. Why do you think I eat meat?

You eat meat because you enjoy it since that is the only reason to eat meat this day and age.

And how is that not selfish? And weak?

Yes, I enjoy eating meat but that's the reason I eat meat. It's not the reason I don't eat meat. The reason I don't eat meat is because I am weak and selfish.

Bullshit.

You enjoy it but you also seem to enjoy your self flagellation.

Didn't I say I enjoy it already? You got me. I do enjoy it. It's because I am selfish and weak that I keep doing it even though I admit it is wrong

You probably can't understand this because you can't conceive ever doing anything you believe is wrong. That's just because you will rationalize it away like you are trying to argue I am rationalizing it away despite my repeated statements that I know eating meat is wrong but I do it because I like it and because I am too selfish and weak to not do it.

I don't preach right and wrong like you do.

I make choices that I can live with. I really don't care if you have a hard time living with your choices.

Yes, your words don't match your behaviors. That is correct. You say you don't believe in right and wrong but you act like you do.

I do what I do for my own reasons not to be compliant to someone else's idea of right and wrong.

I don't care if you do something I wouldn't do because you and you alone are the one that has to live with your choices.

Except you always try to do right and believe that no one would continue doing wrong. AND you hold others to your views of right and wrong even if you say you don't because you argue for an absolute right and wrong which are always your views of right and wrong.

I'm perfectly fine with you making choices. I seriously couldn't care less. Why should I? I don't suffer the consequences of your choices. You do. So why should I care?

I don't believe I have the right to judge anyone else's behavior. Once again that's your thing not mine. And all I do is try to make choices I can live with and by doing that you somehow think that I am telling you how to live. That's you being defensive.

You just judge the person

Which is worse.

I don't judge the person because that's one of the ways bias is created. I judge behaviors and actions because that's how lessons are learned.

A person is nothing but the sum total of his thoughts and actions

by judging actions you judge the person because all actions are chosen by the person carrying them out.

By your own admission

You choose to be selfish
You choose to be weak

So you are judging yourself not just your actions

Behaviors don't occur in a vacuum as they all begin with a thought and that thought originates in the person. They cannot be separated

No. Judging actions instead of people disassociates the judgement of the action from the person. For example just because someone lies does not make them a liar. Honest men can sometimes be dishonest. Bias is created when the person is judged instead of the action. Which is what YOU do and is why you can't see reality.

 

[Blues Man]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

 

[Blues Man]

Refusing to acknowledge the similarity of results of running over chicks with a lawn mower or the maceration of live chicks in the egg industry is not rationalization it is compartmentalization.

That's just silly. Of course eating animals is a rationalization. You keep trying to define the rule (eating animals) by the exception (animals getting killed by lawn mowers). How many animals die from slaughter for food (rule)? How many animals die from getting run over with a lawnmower (exception)?

So do people compartmentalize the death of animals that are eaten by humans? Or do people rationalize that there is nothing wrong with it? Keep in mind that over the course of a long human life they may eat parts of an animal 87,600 times. Are you telling me that over 80 years they hide the fact from themselves that they are eating an animal? Or does it make more sense that they have rationalized that eating parts of an animal 87,600 times that it wasn't wrong?

when you say that the killing of an animal in one instance is cruel but you refuse to acknowledge that the killing of an animal for food is cruel you are compartmentalizing so as to avoid cognitive dissonance.

But I don't do that. But if I did I would be rationalizing it. Not compartmentalizing it.

So you don't think it's cruel to macerate newly hatched birds alive.

Interesting.

I think you are trying to define a rule through an exception and that it shows you don't have good arguments. As a rule, victims compartmentalize and aggressors rationalize.

You think compartmentalization only applies in cases of trauma and you are wrong, of course.

No. I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

I am applying it directly to cognitive dissonance.

Compartmentalization

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction. That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or...

www.psychologytoday.com

Compartmentalization is a defense mechanism in which people mentally separate conflicting thoughts, emotions, or experiences to avoid the discomfort of contradiction.

That uncomfortable state is called cognitive dissonance, and it’s one that humans try to avoid, by modifying certain beliefs or behaviors or through strategies like compartmentalization.

Again... I think you are trying to apply it in exclusion to the main reason people deny reality which is rationalization.

And you think wrong again

Your refusal to acknowledge that rationalizations are the number one means of denying reality by a large margin says otherwise. As does your lack of understanding the key distinction between rationalization and compartmentalization.

rationalization and compartmentalization are 2 entirely different things.

We can rationalize behaviors and belifs but when we actually hold 2 opposing beliefs we compartmentalize. Both of thoose oppsing belifs can be rationalized on their own but not together because they are oppositional so those conflicting belifs are compartmentalized then rationalized individually.

When one compartmentalizing something they block it from their memory. When one rationalizes something they change their perception of reality. Rationalizations are not made because one has opposing beliefs. Rationalizations are because one's actions don't match one's beliefs.

No they do not block it from their memory.

Read the links to the definition of the word as it is used in psychology.

Blocking memories is dissociation.

Compartmentalize literally means to keep separate.

No shit Sherlock

It doesn't mean blocking from memory.

Same difference. It's the whole purpose of compartmentalizing. To keep from having to think about it. Whereas rationalizations are done to remove the conflict so that it can still be thought of and not needed to be compartmentalized. Rationalizations are the dominant way of denying reality. Compartmentalization is how someone ignores reality.

Compartmentalizing in no way means you never think about something. it means you are able to ignore one belief while acting on a conflicting belief.

Like believing it's cruel to run over birds with a lawn mower but then thinking it's perfectly OK for millions of other birds to be ground up alive so you can have your omelette. You compartmentalize those conflicting beliefs you don't block them from your mind

I have to say this topic has always fascinated me.

Over my life I have been as affected by it as anyone else. When I was in my early 30's I met a couple of exceptional people, a Buddhist monk and a man who was a welder but held a PhD in Philosophy. Both these men were such positive influences that to this day I am grateful to both of them for their friendship and wisdom. I don't want to think about where i would be today if I hadn't met them. Both of them have helped to live an examined life. But I digress.


Let's start with a working definition then some examples.

Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance occurs when a person's beliefs conflicts with other previously held beliefs. It describes the feelings of discomfort resulting from having the two conflicting beliefs. In order to reduce or possibly eliminate the dissonance, something must change because of the discrepancy between the person's beliefs and behaviors.

It's a simple definition for such a prevalent condition.

Examples:

One that is very relevant today is the CD that involves politicians.

People will find a way to excuse the bad deeds the person they support and to magnify the bad deeds of the person they don't support. This also manifests in being unable to credit a politician you do not support for doing something you might actually agree with and ignoring the deeds of the politician you support when they do something you disagree with.

One that I experience a lot these days is People saying they love animals but who eat animals.

Example:

A man is mowing his lawn and purposely runs over a flock of baby ducks and macerates them with the mower blades. A man with his child witness the event and call the cops. The man on the mower gets charged with animal cruelty. The witness then takes his child out to breakfast and orders scrambled eggs for himself and his child. Now the egg industry doesn't want male chicks so right after male chicks are hatched they are fed into a macerating machine where they are ground up alive. But the man calmly eats his eggs without feeling the need to call the police.

and one more

The sour grapes phenomenon. This is actually addressed in one of Aesop's fables about a fox who cannot reach grapes that he wants. He experiences cognitive dissonance and to ease his frustration; he decides the grapes must be sour and therefore undesirable.

I think we all see people do this every day.

Are we as humans cursed to live with these thoughts and behaviors that clash? Does it bother people as much as it should? Do we just accept that humans are duplicitous?

If we don't want to live a life in contradiction to our beliefs what should we do?

Delusional bullshit.. A man mowing over baby ducks is a psychopath---and needs to be removed. The chicken industry does not macerate baby chicks just because they are male. GEEBUS Christ....they are raised and then butchered as young fryers. You think an imaginary fox eating grapes is based on facts?

The egg industry does that very thing because male chicks don't lay eggs.

It seems you are misinformed.

Why the US egg industry is still killing 300 million chicks a year

Hatcheries promised to stop killing male chicks by 2020. What’s taking so long?

www.vox.com

I had no ideal that any of the companies would be doing this--what a waste. Apparently, not all of them do this.

It was pretty shocking to me when I first saw the videos of it.

I went vegan over a year ago for health reasons but I am glad I'm no longer contributing to the suffering cuased by the meat, poultry , and diary industries.

If you don't believe truth exists in and of itself how can you argue anything is right or wrong? Because it seems you are saying that what the meat, poultry , and diary industries are doing is wrong.

Where did I mention right or wrong in that post?

I stated a fact that the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals.

You implied that it is right to be a vegan because the meat, dairy and poultry industry causes the suffering of animals. A position you can't take unless you believe there really is such a thing as objective truth which defines right and wrong based upon logical reasons.

I did no such thing I merely stated that I am a vegan for the reasons I stated. YOU are the one attaching all that other shit to a simple statement.

So there is nothing wrong with killing animals?

You seem to think it's just fine to kill animals for food. I have no authority to judge your actions.

I choose not to eat animals for my own reasons. I do not tell others what they should do.

You know what i find really interesting is when I say I don't eat meat I get a lot of flack from people yet I never say anything about what they choose to eat.

Nice assumption. Too bad it's wrong.

So you are a vegan?

No.

What part of I admit that what I do is wrong don't you understand?

I don't rationalize that what I do is right like you do. When I do wrong I admit it. You should try it sometime.

Once again you say you know eating animals is wrong but you invent reasons to keep on eating animals. THAT is rationalization

And I never said what I do is right or wrong. Judging the behaviors of others is what you do

Why can't you understand that I can choose to do something that is wrong; that I can choose to not be good? Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp. There is no rationalization. If you want to know why I choose to do wrong instead of right, just ask me.

The fact that you can't recognize that people can choose to do wrong or choose to do evil proves you believe that everyone must either do good or rationalize that they are doing good. You won't even allow for the fact that people can choose to do wrong; that people can choose to do evil. That's how much you refuse to abandon the concept of good and evil. You assume everyone must either do good or rationalize that the are doing good. I am not doing either.

your reason for knowingly doing something you think is wrong is a rationalization.

And i know people choose to do all kinds of things the question is why would anyone willingly choose to do something wrong when that wrong thing is completely unnecessary.

I posted in other thread that I used to shoplift when I was young because I didn't want to spend any time with my fucked up foster parents so I used to rationalize my shoplifting because some days the only thing i would have to eat was the couple things I could pocket. But as soon as I had the means to be able earn enough money to eat and buy clothes etc I stopped stealing stuff and I tried to make amends for my crimes by donating to food banks and clothing drives.

My reason for knowingly doing something wrong is a rationalization? Really?

So I have rationalized that I am weak and selfish for eating meat? And that makes sense to you?

You have some strange views on rationalizations. Why do you think I eat meat?

You eat meat because you enjoy it since that is the only reason to eat meat this day and age.

And how is that not selfish? And weak?

Yes, I enjoy eating meat but that's the reason I eat meat. It's not the reason I don't eat meat. The reason I don't eat meat is because I am weak and selfish.

Bullshit.

You enjoy it but you also seem to enjoy your self flagellation.

Didn't I say I enjoy it already? You got me. I do enjoy it. It's because I am selfish and weak that I keep doing it even though I admit it is wrong

You probably can't understand this because you can't conceive ever doing anything you believe is wrong. That's just because you will rationalize it away like you are trying to argue I am rationalizing it away despite my repeated statements that I know eating meat is wrong but I do it because I like it and because I am too selfish and weak to not do it.

I don't preach right and wrong like you do.

I make choices that I can live with. I really don't care if you have a hard time living with your choices.

Yes, your words don't match your behaviors. That is correct. You say you don't believe in right and wrong but you act like you do.

I do what I do for my own reasons not to be compliant to someone else's idea of right and wrong.

I don't care if you do something I wouldn't do because you and you alone are the one that has to live with your choices.

Except you always try to do right and believe that no one would continue doing wrong. AND you hold others to your views of right and wrong even if you say you don't because you argue for an absolute right and wrong which are always your views of right and wrong.

I'm perfectly fine with you making choices. I seriously couldn't care less. Why should I? I don't suffer the consequences of your choices. You do. So why should I care?

I don't believe I have the right to judge anyone else's behavior. Once again that's your thing not mine. And all I do is try to make choices I can live with and by doing that you somehow think that I am telling you how to live. That's you being defensive.

You just judge the person

Which is worse.

I don't judge the person because that's one of the ways bias is created. I judge behaviors and actions because that's how lessons are learned.

A person is nothing but the sum total of his thoughts and actions

by judging actions you judge the person because all actions are chosen by the person carrying them out.

By your own admission

You choose to be selfish
You choose to be weak

So you are judging yourself not just your actions

Behaviors don't occur in a vacuum as they all begin with a thought and that thought originates in the person. They cannot be separated

No. Judging actions instead of people disassociates the judgement of the action from the person. For example just because someone lies does not make them a liar. Honest men can sometimes be dishonest. Bias is created when the person is judged instead of the action. Which is what YOU do and is why you can't see reality.

If someone lies by definition he is a liar.

The action of lying results from a choice. The choice is originated by the person.

Nothing exists in a vacuum.

And if I take what a person says as neither the truth nor a lie I am not judging the person or the action.

I remain neutral and can wait to see if what that person said was true or not.

 

[ding]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

Some rationalizations are OK, but in the context of this discussion we are talking about rationalizations which are untrue. In your post you rationalized why it is OK for you to be distrustful of others. Of course that lack of trust is based upon your biases which are preventing you from seeing reality. And for the record you are still rationalizing why it's ok for you to be distrustful.

 

[Blues Man]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

Some rationalizations are OK, but in the context of this discussion we are talking about rationalizations which are untrue. In your post you rationalized why it is OK for you to be distrustful of others. Of course that lack of trust is based upon your biases which are preventing you from seeing reality. And for the record you are still rationalizing why it's ok for you to be distrustful.

And i also told you how I changed my perception so I no longer have to rationalize my distrustful nature.

 

[ding]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

Some rationalizations are OK, but in the context of this discussion we are talking about rationalizations which are untrue. In your post you rationalized why it is OK for you to be distrustful of others. Of course that lack of trust is based upon your biases which are preventing you from seeing reality. And for the record you are still rationalizing why it's ok for you to be distrustful.

And i also told you how I changed my perception so I no longer have to rationalize my distrustful nature.

No. What you told me was that you work around your distrust by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them so that you do not have to trust them. That's you rationalizing that it's OK to be distrustful.

 

[Blues Man]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

Some rationalizations are OK, but in the context of this discussion we are talking about rationalizations which are untrue. In your post you rationalized why it is OK for you to be distrustful of others. Of course that lack of trust is based upon your biases which are preventing you from seeing reality. And for the record you are still rationalizing why it's ok for you to be distrustful.

And i also told you how I changed my perception so I no longer have to rationalize my distrustful nature.

No. What you told me was that you work around your distrust by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them so that you do not have to trust them. That's you rationalizing that it's OK to be distrustful.

I work around having to rationalize my distrust by not asking or expecting anything from anyone. By not asking anyone for anything or expecting from anyone anything I do not have to trust them so i can be completely neutral and neither trust nor distrust anyone

 

[ding]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

Some rationalizations are OK, but in the context of this discussion we are talking about rationalizations which are untrue. In your post you rationalized why it is OK for you to be distrustful of others. Of course that lack of trust is based upon your biases which are preventing you from seeing reality. And for the record you are still rationalizing why it's ok for you to be distrustful.

And i also told you how I changed my perception so I no longer have to rationalize my distrustful nature.

No. What you told me was that you work around your distrust by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them so that you do not have to trust them. That's you rationalizing that it's OK to be distrustful.

I work around having to rationalize my distrust by not asking or expecting anything from anyone. By not asking anyone for anything or expecting from anyone anything I do not have to trust them so i can be completely neutral and neither trust nor distrust anyone

That sounds like a wonderful rationalization.

 

[Blues Man]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

Some rationalizations are OK, but in the context of this discussion we are talking about rationalizations which are untrue. In your post you rationalized why it is OK for you to be distrustful of others. Of course that lack of trust is based upon your biases which are preventing you from seeing reality. And for the record you are still rationalizing why it's ok for you to be distrustful.

And i also told you how I changed my perception so I no longer have to rationalize my distrustful nature.

No. What you told me was that you work around your distrust by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them so that you do not have to trust them. That's you rationalizing that it's OK to be distrustful.

I work around having to rationalize my distrust by not asking or expecting anything from anyone. By not asking anyone for anything or expecting from anyone anything I do not have to trust them so i can be completely neutral and neither trust nor distrust anyone

That sounds like a wonderful rationalization.

Not at all. Since I have stopped expecting anything from anyone I have no need to be distrustful. This is a choice that works for me and doesn't contradict any of my own personal values so there is no need to rationalize

 

[ding]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

Some rationalizations are OK, but in the context of this discussion we are talking about rationalizations which are untrue. In your post you rationalized why it is OK for you to be distrustful of others. Of course that lack of trust is based upon your biases which are preventing you from seeing reality. And for the record you are still rationalizing why it's ok for you to be distrustful.

And i also told you how I changed my perception so I no longer have to rationalize my distrustful nature.

No. What you told me was that you work around your distrust by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them so that you do not have to trust them. That's you rationalizing that it's OK to be distrustful.

I work around having to rationalize my distrust by not asking or expecting anything from anyone. By not asking anyone for anything or expecting from anyone anything I do not have to trust them so i can be completely neutral and neither trust nor distrust anyone

That sounds like a wonderful rationalization.

Not at all. Since I have stopped expecting anything from anyone I have no need to be distrustful. This is a choice that works for me and doesn't contradict any of my own personal values so there is no need to rationalize

That's still a rationalization.

 

[Blues Man]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

Some rationalizations are OK, but in the context of this discussion we are talking about rationalizations which are untrue. In your post you rationalized why it is OK for you to be distrustful of others. Of course that lack of trust is based upon your biases which are preventing you from seeing reality. And for the record you are still rationalizing why it's ok for you to be distrustful.

And i also told you how I changed my perception so I no longer have to rationalize my distrustful nature.

No. What you told me was that you work around your distrust by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them so that you do not have to trust them. That's you rationalizing that it's OK to be distrustful.

I work around having to rationalize my distrust by not asking or expecting anything from anyone. By not asking anyone for anything or expecting from anyone anything I do not have to trust them so i can be completely neutral and neither trust nor distrust anyone

That sounds like a wonderful rationalization.

Not at all. Since I have stopped expecting anything from anyone I have no need to be distrustful. This is a choice that works for me and doesn't contradict any of my own personal values so there is no need to rationalize

That's still a rationalization.

No it is not.

When one lives in accordance to one's own values there is no need to rationalize because there is no internal conflict

 

[ding]

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

But I didn't say it was OK

All I ever did was give you my reason for not eating meat.

you just make a lot of lame excuses which is just a type of rationalization

I find it quite ironic that you can have reasons that aren't rationalizations but I can't.

That's pretty hypocritical behavior, don't you think?

But you're the one who is consciously choosing to break your own code of what is right and wrong so every time you do something you think is wrong you have to rationalize it.

Or if you are unconsciously choosing to do things you think are wrong you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't have to rationalize the behaviors that are in line with my personal beliefs.

I've already admitted that I do not trust people even if I don't have a reason not to. So I rationalize that belief because I want to believe that most people are basically decent but I have a hard time getting over my past and still am a very distrustful person.

The way I get around this undesirable belief is that I don't ever ask anyone for anything because then I never have to trust them.

Yes, I admit that I don't always meet the standard but that does not negate the standard. But choosing to do wrong and admitting that wrong was done is not a rationalization. Choosing to do wrong and denying wrong was done is a rationalization.

You literally just rationalized why it's OK for you to be distrustful.

Yes i said I rationalized in my post but I never said it was OK did I?

I said I work around that by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them by doing that I do not have to trust them. I do this so I can be neither trusting nor distrusting. That way of dealing with people removes the need to rationalize my distrust because I can be completely neutral in my dealings with people

Some rationalizations are OK, but in the context of this discussion we are talking about rationalizations which are untrue. In your post you rationalized why it is OK for you to be distrustful of others. Of course that lack of trust is based upon your biases which are preventing you from seeing reality. And for the record you are still rationalizing why it's ok for you to be distrustful.

And i also told you how I changed my perception so I no longer have to rationalize my distrustful nature.

No. What you told me was that you work around your distrust by not asking people for anything or expecting anything of them so that you do not have to trust them. That's you rationalizing that it's OK to be distrustful.

I work around having to rationalize my distrust by not asking or expecting anything from anyone. By not asking anyone for anything or expecting from anyone anything I do not have to trust them so i can be completely neutral and neither trust nor distrust anyone

That sounds like a wonderful rationalization.

Not at all. Since I have stopped expecting anything from anyone I have no need to be distrustful. This is a choice that works for me and doesn't contradict any of my own personal values so there is no need to rationalize

That's still a rationalization.

No it is not.

When one lives in accordance to one's own values there is no need to rationalize because there is no internal conflict

Sure it is. You only see it that way because you are blinded from seeing reality. You are a textbook example of the dunnng-kruger effect.

You see yourself as better than you are in terms of not making rationalizations but you literally just rationalized your distrust of others as good.