"Common Sense" Gun Control

[daveman]

If someone shoots 5 people, why are the other 10 just going to stand there and let him reload?

Do,you understand how quick and easy it is to reload?

I definitely do know how quick and easy it is to reload.

What I don't understand is the attitude towards others, as if they have never been trained to do that and why all these right-wingers act like they know so damned much.

Perhaps if you quit sounding so ignorant...?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So to summarize

You're selfish and lazy. Got it.

Yeah I'm selfish because i don't like the idea of an armed criminal breaking into my house killing my dog raping my wife and burning my house down.

What does that make a person who wants to deny me the right to protect my wife from that type of violence?

What type of person is Ok with kids being shot in the face at school.

When you don't even attempt to come up with a solution to this happening you're basically saying that you just accept that as collateral damage for your "freedom".

Like I said selfish and lazy

What kind of person hides behind dead kids rather than standing up and fighting for what he believes?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

limiting to 5 rounds would make practically every gun in the country illegal.

this includes black powder revolvers.

come back with some common sense

You can easily adapt a magazine to hold less rounds and I was talking about rifles, not revolvers, because they don't have a magazine. The gun illegal thing is nonsense.

Legally, you can't, because the law says that any magazine that can be adapted to hold more than x rounds is illegal.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I thought I would take the time to point out why Obama's ideas of common sense do not mesh with the reality of the world.

Here is a summation of each of the executive orders that he signed today.

Read President Obama's New, Proposed Executive Orders and Legislation on Guns

Now let us see how common sense they are.

1. We have had background checks for decades, for as long as I can remember, which is a lot longer than I care to admit. If the government hasn't figured out how to share the necessary data yet, this is not going to fix it. If they have, why haven't they been doing this already?
2. First off, legal barriers cannot be eliminated by executive decree. Second, those barriers are there to protect the privacy of people who have not broken any laws. Third, the reason it was necessary to create those barriers was that the government requires people to violate their own right to privacy to in the first place.
3. Improve the incentives for states, AKA bribe them with tax money. Once again, this has to come from Congress, he can't just decide to spend money because he wants to spend money. By the way, if the states haven't already jumped on the bandwagon despite the decades of federal bribery what makes Obama think a few billion more is going to make a difference?
4. Direct the AG to review categories of people... People come in categories now? How many categories exist? What are they? What if someone walks into the wrong category?
5. Propose new rules. Something he can actually do, except I see no reason anyone should have to submit to a check if the government illegally seizes their property. What was that? You don't see anything about illegal seizure of property? Simple question, if the seizure was legal in the first place, why do the assholes have to return it?
6. Have the ATF write a letter. Let me repeat that, have the ATF write a letter. A-fucking-mazing, why didn't I think of that?
7. A national safe and responsible gun ownership program. What should we call it? How about the NRA?
8. Have the CSPC review standards for gun locks and safes. Why, have they proven to be defective? Are people accidentally firing gun safes and killing their children? Maybe they put the gun lock on their car by mistake?
9. Require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. Excuse me? Are we not doing this now? Why do we have serial numbers on guns? Who the fuck does he think he is talking to?
10. Release a report on lost and stolen guns and make it available to law enforcement. That one speaks for itself, doesn't it? Can anyone explain why we kept the report classified in the first place?
11. Nominate an ATF director. Gee willikers Wally, what a novel idea. I thought that was what he did with Todd Jones two years ago, I must be remembering wrong.
12. Train police for active shooter situations. Umm, what?
13. Start enforcing the existing laws. Gee, I wonder why no one ever suggested that before.
14. Direct the CDC to investigate gun violence. This is probably the worst of the lot, violence is not a disease, and asking the CDC to investigate it as such is nothing but propaganda. They don't know enough about criminology to study the issue, if he was serious about it he would give this to the FBI, but they might come up with a solution that does not involve banning guns.
15. Have the Attorney General tell the private sector all about the stuff the private sector invented. I am speechless.
16. Tell people what they already know, Obamacare lets doctors ask questions about things that have nothing to do with health care, which will allow states to report who has guns. (See number 2)
17. Tell doctors that federal law lets them report threats of violence, even if they are not credible.
18. Give money to schools to hire armed guards. I thought this was a dumb idea because it came from the NRA.
19. Centrally pan for emergencies so that people who actually know what the local problems are have no say.
20. Write a letter to states about Medicaid, because they, obviously, never heard of it before.
21. Make Obamacare more complicated by making up new rules about mental health coverage.
22. Commit to making final regulations about mental health parity. Weren't those supposed to be done last year?
23. Talk about mental health on a national level, because no one has ever talked about it before.

No common sense, no serious attempt to determine what the problem is, nothing but the intent to make things better through conversation and a commitment to get the job done.


I don't know about anyone else, but I feel so much better.

For the progressives. Having gone through the list, point out the ones that would have, or will stop another Newtown.....

Be very specific on how this will stop a criminal bent on killing a room full of kids.

This question has been avoided, let's hear someone answer it?

I am still waiting for anyone to actually address any of the points I raised.

 

[Dubya]

I said people were violent before guns they will be violent if guns are taken away.

Keeping people like me from buying guns and high capacity magazines will not decrease violence.

Then people can learn from their ancestors.

Go to the shooting range, if you need high capacity magazines!

Yeah keep believing that people will just magically learn not to be violent. Maybe Santa Claus actually exists too.

And you haven't told me how preventing a person who has never once committed a violent act with a gun from buying any gun or magazine he wants will decrease violence.

And BTW I'll say it again. I do not own one 30 round magazine for any of my rifles because I know that I can shoot just as many rounds in virtually the same time with 2 15 round mags and besides the larger capacity mags are more likely to jam.

And I only ever use my weapons at a shooting range but I will also use them if some criminal motherfucker tries to break into my house when i am home and if I want to put 30, 60, 90 or 1000 rounds into that criminal scum what business is it of yours?

You represent the interests of the NRA and I represent the interests of the American people. Let's see who wins!

 

[daveman]

The easy access to weapons is creating the violence. The open market needs to be shut down. It can be done in ways that honest citizens can still purchase their weapons.

Bullshit. Violent people are creating the violence.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If someone shoots 5 people, why are the other 10 just going to stand there and let him reload?

Do,you understand how quick and easy it is to reload?

It was so "quick and easy" that when Loughner had to do it..he was tackled.

But that was after he emptied his 30 round clip into 19 people.

He was tackled because they were not hiding in a closet as part of a master plan to hide from people with guns instead of running away or attacking.

 

[Desperado]

Rambos don't like the top one...

dems don't like either one of them

Besides common sense will never work in Washington.
Common Sense, Truth and Honest are either extinct or outlawed in our Government since no one can remember the last time either one was seen there.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We have had background checks for decades, for as long as I can remember, which is a lot longer than I care to admit. If the government hasn't figured out how to share the necessary data yet, this is not going to fix it. If they have, why haven't they been doing this already?

That makes no sense.

You sound like a defeatist.

Like we should just accept a mass murder 4-5 times a year.

I agree, it doesn't make sense. Can you explain why the government hasn't been doing this already? Or do you want to admit they have, and that Obama is just trying to look good?

 

[daveman]

No one is talking about banning cars are they?

And if you think that the car argument doesn't apply to guns then why are you using it?

Some cars have already been banned. Ford Pinto's and Chevrolet Corvairs come readily to mind.

Where do you get this crap?

Pinto Car Club of America - Carlisle 2008

CorvairForum.com ? Index page

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I keep hearing about these polls... Perhaps you might provide a link to something other than a biased Liberal site.

Someone posted a good chart recently that matched a recent poll, but I couldn't find it in google images. Here's one from Pew, but I'm sure which poll it was (correction, it's just a chopped down version):

It may have been this one from the link that was posted:

Source: In Gun Control Debate, Several Options Draw Majority Support | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

Riddle me this:

How would have denying Adam Lanza the right to buy guns because he was mentally ill stopped Sandy Hook?

He did not buy the guns he stole them from his mother.

So tell me do we have to have psych evals for every person living in every home and every person who might visit that home if a sane person living there wants a weapon to protect himself?

In fact, he was unable to buy a gun when he tried, I wonder if that was because he was listed in a database as mentally ill. Yet he still managed to do what he did.

 

[daveman]

According the the recently passed New York law, an assault weapon is any weapon which accepts a removable magazine and which also has at least one other feature, such as a pistol grip, forward pistol grip, thumbhole grip, flash suppressor etc. The old national law was similar except that it had to have 2 other features. The new proposal would also include just one other feature.

So, what makes a rifle an "assault weapon" are features that make it look scary.

That's all. That's the only criterion.

Because an "assault weapon" is functionally JUST EXACTLY THE SAME as a semi-automatic rifle without the scary cosmetic features.

Thanks for illustrating that the calls for banning assault weapons are based solely on emotion, not on logic.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've explained why you are irrational. Does your brain wonder why they are talking about limiting magazine sizes? Crazy people always think others are crazy.

I stated many of the things that would be good changes. I don't want a ban on assault weapons, I just want them registered with periodic renewal to prevent them getting into the wrong hands.

I want the laws to assist law enforcement passed. I don't care if gun shops sell less guns as a result. I want the security around gun purchasing tightened enough so we can get the guns out of the hands of street gangs in our major cities. I don't want an open market for guns in America where they can supply the Drug Cartels in Mexico or street gangs.

There is a whole list, but I basically want common sense law to prevent violence, but still allow law abiding citizens to have their guns.

When you can prevent violence I'll give up my guns. Until then I will support the free access to weapons.

The easy access to weapons is creating the violence. The open market needs to be shut down. It can be done in ways that honest citizens can still purchase their weapons.

If that were true there would be more violent crime in America than any country in the world. Since the US is not even in the top 10 in that category, your premise is wrong.

 

[daveman]

When you can prevent violence I'll give up my guns. Until then I will support the free access to weapons.

The easy access to weapons is creating the violence. The open market needs to be shut down. It can be done in ways that honest citizens can still purchase their weapons.

If that were true there would be more violent crime in America than any country in the world. Since the US is not even in the top 10 in that category, your premise is wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The easy access to weapons is creating the violence. The open market needs to be shut down. It can be done in ways that honest citizens can still purchase their weapons.

People create violence not weapons.

People were violent before there were guns and they will be violent if guns are taken away.

That is even more reason to have a weapon because if weapons are banned then 2 or 3 people can over power one unarmed man where one man with a weapon can hold them off.

Then they can create it without a gun.

I can't create violence without a gun? We should let McVeigh out of jail because he did not have a gun and I must have dreamt that 19 people without guns killed thousands om 9/11.

 

[Dubya]

limiting to 5 rounds would make practically every gun in the country illegal.

this includes black powder revolvers.

come back with some common sense

You can easily adapt a magazine to hold less rounds and I was talking about rifles, not revolvers, because they don't have a magazine. The gun illegal thing is nonsense.

Legally, you can't, because the law says that any magazine that can be adapted to hold more than x rounds is illegal.

What law are you talking about?

Why don't you post the law or a source to it?

 

[Dubya]

Someone posted a good chart recently that matched a recent poll, but I couldn't find it in google images. Here's one from Pew, but I'm sure which poll it was (correction, it's just a chopped down version):

It may have been this one from the link that was posted:

Source: In Gun Control Debate, Several Options Draw Majority Support | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

Riddle me this:

How would have denying Adam Lanza the right to buy guns because he was mentally ill stopped Sandy Hook?

He did not buy the guns he stole them from his mother.

So tell me do we have to have psych evals for every person living in every home and every person who might visit that home if a sane person living there wants a weapon to protect himself?

In fact, he was unable to buy a gun when he tried, I wonder if that was because he was listed in a database as mentally ill. Yet he still managed to do what he did.

His mother should have had enough sense to keep guns away from him.

That is only one case of violence in America. I understand you don't want things changed, but that's just too bad.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No one is talking about banning cars are they?

And if you think that the car argument doesn't apply to guns then why are you using it?

Some cars have already been banned. Ford Pinto's and Chevrolet Corvairs come readily to mind.

No, nobody but the ultra-tree huggers are talking about banning ALL cars, but some cars have been made illegal. Similarly, nobody but the ultra-gun grabbers are talking about banning all guns, so the discussion is the same as with cars: which ones and under what criteria.

Yet, I don't see you holding out for your right to drive an unsafe car. Why not?

They are not banned.

 

[Oldguy]

Fine with me. Enact a law that mandates life in prison without parole for any violent crime committed with a gun other than self defense.

Some states already have that.

Weapons sold on the market are not dangerous. People can injure themselves or someone else with a safe weapon just as people can injure themselves or someone else with a car if either is used irresponsibly. That's called risk and risk is part of life.

Yes, but the question we must ask ourselves, and are asking now, is what level of risk are we willing to accept?

If you can stop them without curtailing the rights of those who never have hurt anyone with a weapon then go ahead.

I'd like to hear your ideas on how to do that. It would be tantamount to casting your net to catch only one kind of fish without trapping some other kinds.

Keeping weapons out of the hands of is similar. It can't be done, so the only reasonable way is to catch them all, then pick out the ones you want to keep, releasing the others unharmed. That's essentially what background checks do.

That so called law in New York was specifically designed to ban all semiautomatic weapons. Which as I have been saying all along is the end game here.

No it wasn't, and it doesn't.

 

[Dubya]

When you can prevent violence I'll give up my guns. Until then I will support the free access to weapons.

The easy access to weapons is creating the violence. The open market needs to be shut down. It can be done in ways that honest citizens can still purchase their weapons.

If that were true there would be more violent crime in America than any country in the world. Since the US is not even in the top 10 in that category, your premise is wrong.

That doesn't make sense, because there are some messed up places in this world. We aren't at war within the country. This is an industrialized country.