Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's done because the Solar industry can't stand on it's own because of the prices. While prices are coming down they are still not cost effective. In California the rates are much higher than my State........because we use EVIL FOSSIL FUELS.

Fossil fuels are subsidized as well, I guess that means that industry can't stand on it's own. :rolleys:

You show me any energy source and I'll show you a history of subsidies.

Big money is spent on preventing blackouts and solar power production is IDEALY suited to help the system in that aspect because the power production shoots up with AC energy demand.

Fossil fuels are subsidized as well

Liar.

A new report shows that the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015. That's over four times the amount that went to clean energy, which received $1.3 billion.

Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government, a new report shows

Thanks for the link.
Shockingly, they didn't give any specifics.
Try again?

Yes they did in supporting links.

Her eis a tiny exmaple:

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database. “I think Marathon always wanted to be here,” Republican governor John Kasich said in 2011. “All we’re doing is helping them.” In 2011, Kasich was named as the top recipient of oil and gas donations in Ohio, having received $213, 519. The same year Kasich appointed Marathon Petroleum’s CEO to the board of Jobs Ohio, a semi-private group “in charge of the economic growth in the state of Ohio”.

Thanks. I clicked through several of the links and didn't see any oil subsidies.

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database.

That's not an oil subsidy, that's a job subsidy. And it doesn't back the previous claim....Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government

Keep trying, there must be some out there..........

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How would it be different if I used a marginal rate tax-cut to pay for my solar??

Everyone gets a rate cut, no special behavior needed.

Only buyers of solar cells get the solar cell tax credit........subsidy.

No NOT EVERYONE, top marginal tax rate applies only to top income braket.

ONLY coporations get corporate tax-cuts.

View attachment 193302

Here's how your tax bracket will change in 2018

Do you seriously not get that tax-cuts are subject to umber of factors and there are always plenty of relative winnners and losers?

If I get my income as pass-through form my bussiness I get tax-cuts that regular income is not subject to, If I live in certain states SALT deduciton limits will hurt me more etc. etc. etc.

SO the question is how would me buying solar power with THAT tax-cutting any different as far as someone else paying for my solar.

Do you seriously not get that tax-cuts are subject to umber of factors

Do you seriously not realize that all the brackets got a cut, not just the top one?

SO the question is how would me buying solar power with THAT tax-cutting any different as far as someone else paying for my solar.

How is it different if every tax payer sees a rate cut versus only solar cell buyers seeing a cut?

Idiot, not all tax-payers got the same tax cuts, or any cuts AT ALL.

Corporations and pass through bussiness income in particular got a huge tax-cuts no one else got.

You said, "No NOT EVERYONE, top marginal tax rate applies only to top income braket."

That's a lie.

 

[AntonToo]

Fossil fuels are subsidized as well, I guess that means that industry can't stand on it's own. :rolleys:

You show me any energy source and I'll show you a history of subsidies.

Big money is spent on preventing blackouts and solar power production is IDEALY suited to help the system in that aspect because the power production shoots up with AC energy demand.

Fossil fuels are subsidized as well

Liar.

A new report shows that the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015. That's over four times the amount that went to clean energy, which received $1.3 billion.

Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government, a new report shows

Thanks for the link.
Shockingly, they didn't give any specifics.
Try again?

Yes they did in supporting links.

Her eis a tiny exmaple:

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database. “I think Marathon always wanted to be here,” Republican governor John Kasich said in 2011. “All we’re doing is helping them.” In 2011, Kasich was named as the top recipient of oil and gas donations in Ohio, having received $213, 519. The same year Kasich appointed Marathon Petroleum’s CEO to the board of Jobs Ohio, a semi-private group “in charge of the economic growth in the state of Ohio”.

Thanks. I clicked through several of the links and didn't see any oil subsidies.

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database.

That's not an oil subsidy, that's a job subsidy. And it doesn't back the previous claim....Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government

Keep trying, there must be some out there..........

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

 

[Markle]

They mine a lot of coal in California?

No, but there is a massive amount of high quality, low sulfur anthracite coal in the Grand Staircase Escalate National Monument, a nearly 2 MILLION acre area put off limits as a payoff to China by former President Bill Clinton. That is a prime location for a rail line running straight as an arrow to a major coal plant in Southern California.

Of course, Progressive California would rather go broke and run off citizens than use common sense.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Fossil fuels are subsidized as well

Liar.

A new report shows that the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015. That's over four times the amount that went to clean energy, which received $1.3 billion.

Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government, a new report shows

Thanks for the link.
Shockingly, they didn't give any specifics.
Try again?

Yes they did in supporting links.

Her eis a tiny exmaple:

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database. “I think Marathon always wanted to be here,” Republican governor John Kasich said in 2011. “All we’re doing is helping them.” In 2011, Kasich was named as the top recipient of oil and gas donations in Ohio, having received $213, 519. The same year Kasich appointed Marathon Petroleum’s CEO to the board of Jobs Ohio, a semi-private group “in charge of the economic growth in the state of Ohio”.

Thanks. I clicked through several of the links and didn't see any oil subsidies.

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database.

That's not an oil subsidy, that's a job subsidy. And it doesn't back the previous claim....Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government

Keep trying, there must be some out there..........

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs"
could probably get some sort of tax credit from that state, or another. You can argue for and against states doing that for all sorts of reasons, but Ohio doing that doesn't help the original claim.....

the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015

I know it's difficult for you, but try to focus.

 

[AntonToo]

A new report shows that the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015. That's over four times the amount that went to clean energy, which received $1.3 billion.

Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government, a new report shows

Thanks for the link.
Shockingly, they didn't give any specifics.
Try again?

Yes they did in supporting links.

Her eis a tiny exmaple:

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database. “I think Marathon always wanted to be here,” Republican governor John Kasich said in 2011. “All we’re doing is helping them.” In 2011, Kasich was named as the top recipient of oil and gas donations in Ohio, having received $213, 519. The same year Kasich appointed Marathon Petroleum’s CEO to the board of Jobs Ohio, a semi-private group “in charge of the economic growth in the state of Ohio”.

Thanks. I clicked through several of the links and didn't see any oil subsidies.

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database.

That's not an oil subsidy, that's a job subsidy. And it doesn't back the previous claim....Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government

Keep trying, there must be some out there..........

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs"
could probably get some sort of tax credit from that state, or another. You can argue for and against states doing that for all sorts of reasons, but Ohio doing that doesn't help the original claim.....

the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015

I know it's difficult for you, but try to focus.

You can't even admit that a blatant oil company subsidy is a subsidy, so what the fuck is the point of me going to fetch you 1000 more?

You are drunk on stupid.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They mine a lot of coal in California?

No, but there is a massive amount of high quality, low sulfur anthracite coal in the Grand Staircase Escalate National Monument, a nearly 2 MILLION acre area put off limits as a payoff to China by former President Bill Clinton. That is a prime location for a rail line running straight as an arrow to a major coal plant in Southern California.

Of course, Progressive California would rather go broke and run off citizens than use common sense.

a nearly 2 MILLION acre area put off limits as a payoff to China by former President Bill Clinton.

That was a payoff to Indonesian billionaire Mochtar Riady and his Lippo Group.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Thanks for the link.
Shockingly, they didn't give any specifics.
Try again?

Yes they did in supporting links.

Her eis a tiny exmaple:

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database. “I think Marathon always wanted to be here,” Republican governor John Kasich said in 2011. “All we’re doing is helping them.” In 2011, Kasich was named as the top recipient of oil and gas donations in Ohio, having received $213, 519. The same year Kasich appointed Marathon Petroleum’s CEO to the board of Jobs Ohio, a semi-private group “in charge of the economic growth in the state of Ohio”.

Thanks. I clicked through several of the links and didn't see any oil subsidies.

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database.

That's not an oil subsidy, that's a job subsidy. And it doesn't back the previous claim....Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government

Keep trying, there must be some out there..........

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs"
could probably get some sort of tax credit from that state, or another. You can argue for and against states doing that for all sorts of reasons, but Ohio doing that doesn't help the original claim.....

the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015

I know it's difficult for you, but try to focus.

You can't even admit that a blatant oil company subsidy is a subsidy, so what the fuck is the point of me going to fetch you 1000 more?

You are drunk on stupid.

That's not an oil subsidy, you fuck head. And it's certainly not a federal subsidy.

 

[AntonToo]

Yes they did in supporting links.

Her eis a tiny exmaple:

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database. “I think Marathon always wanted to be here,” Republican governor John Kasich said in 2011. “All we’re doing is helping them.” In 2011, Kasich was named as the top recipient of oil and gas donations in Ohio, having received $213, 519. The same year Kasich appointed Marathon Petroleum’s CEO to the board of Jobs Ohio, a semi-private group “in charge of the economic growth in the state of Ohio”.

Thanks. I clicked through several of the links and didn't see any oil subsidies.

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database.

That's not an oil subsidy, that's a job subsidy. And it doesn't back the previous claim....Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government

Keep trying, there must be some out there..........

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs"
could probably get some sort of tax credit from that state, or another. You can argue for and against states doing that for all sorts of reasons, but Ohio doing that doesn't help the original claim.....

the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015

I know it's difficult for you, but try to focus.

You can't even admit that a blatant oil company subsidy is a subsidy, so what the fuck is the point of me going to fetch you 1000 more?

You are drunk on stupid.

That's not an oil subsidy, you fuck head. And it's certainly not a federal subsidy.

It's a direct subsidy to an oil company that made it more competetive.

Untill you can dispute even a single word of that sentence you need to stfu.

 

[Markle]

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

What do you consider a subsidy?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Thanks. I clicked through several of the links and didn't see any oil subsidies.

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database.

That's not an oil subsidy, that's a job subsidy. And it doesn't back the previous claim....Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government

Keep trying, there must be some out there..........

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs"
could probably get some sort of tax credit from that state, or another. You can argue for and against states doing that for all sorts of reasons, but Ohio doing that doesn't help the original claim.....

the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015

I know it's difficult for you, but try to focus.

You can't even admit that a blatant oil company subsidy is a subsidy, so what the fuck is the point of me going to fetch you 1000 more?

You are drunk on stupid.

That's not an oil subsidy, you fuck head. And it's certainly not a federal subsidy.

It's a directsubsidy oil company recieved that made it more competetive.

Untill you can dispute even a single word of that sentence you need to stfu.

Subsidy: money given as part of the cost of something to help or encourage it to happen:

Your solar subsidy gives you money to encourage you to buy solar panels.

What did Ohio's subsidy encourage Marathon to do........?

 

[Markle]

A new report shows that the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015. That's over four times the amount that went to clean energy, which received $1.3 billion.

Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government, a new report shows

Please share with us the percentage of energy produced by oil, gas and coal during those years and the percentage of "clean" energy. What were the gross sales for both?

Thank you!

 

[HenryBHough]

Don't forget, there are millions of liberals who don't want to make decisions on their own and are happy to have The Party tell them what do do, what to buy and at what price.

If it comforts them but doesn't fuck with others then What The Hell!

Sadly, they DO want to fuck with others.

 

[talksalot]

No more free choice. They decide, you kneel.

Fortune: California to Require Solar Panels for All New Homes

I hate this because they are driving liberals into other states. Liberals who may not be able to afford California's fascism but they will take it with them wherever they go. Liberals are like a cancer.

 

[Markle]

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs"
could probably get some sort of tax credit from that state, or another. You can argue for and against states doing that for all sorts of reasons, but Ohio doing that doesn't help the original claim.....

the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015

I know it's difficult for you, but try to focus.

You can't even admit that a blatant oil company subsidy is a subsidy, so what the fuck is the point of me going to fetch you 1000 more?

You are drunk on stupid.

That's not an oil subsidy, you fuck head. And it's certainly not a federal subsidy.

It's a directsubsidy oil company recieved that made it more competetive.

Untill you can dispute even a single word of that sentence you need to stfu.

Subsidy: money given as part of the cost of something to help or encourage it to happen:

Your solar subsidy gives you money to encourage you to buy solar panels.

What did Ohio's subsidy encourage Marathon to do........?

I did not ask for the definition of the word subsidy. I asked what a subsidy was to you.

As you know, many Progressives erroneously consider tax deductions, available to any business, a subsidy, which it is not

 

[AntonToo]

As you know, many Progressives erroneously consider tax deductions, available to any business, a subsidy, which it is not

PSST, let me clue you in - your conservatives pals here have spent many many posts arguing that the tax deductions I got for my solar system were SUBSIDIES and THATS why they were not self-financing like other tax-cuts.

 

[Billo_Really]

Californians refuse to be fossil fuel bitches like the people back east are.

That's right! Californians are happy to pay 40% more than the national average to stick it to fossil fuels.

Oh contraire' Tod, once the panels are in, your energy is free for the life of the home.

 

[AntonToo]

A new report shows that the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015. That's over four times the amount that went to clean energy, which received $1.3 billion.

Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government, a new report shows

Please share with us the percentage of energy produced by oil, gas and coal during those years and the percentage of "clean" energy. What were the gross sales for both?

Thank you!

Thats a fair point - 6 billion is a smaller % of fossil industry volume than 1.3 billion for clean energy. However clean energy industry young and developing and at this stage the other industries have recieved more subsidies.

 

[Markle]

Wrong but then you've never visited Palmdale to see age Nor Lake Tahoe to see snow.

But if one does live in Floriday replace the cleaning with reinstalling after every hurricane.

Or is it the math that's so challenging?

Are you of the impression that when a hurricane strikes anywhere in the state of Florida, all the homes are destroyed? As for a solar system being destroyed in a hurricane, that's why we have hazard and hurricane insurance. If you live on the coast, that insurance can be and should be, very expensive. As for the additional $70,000 for a solar panel system, the insurance and property tax will be all that much more.

 

[Markle]

Cali has an energy problem . Also has a lot of sunlight !

Seems like a smart idea .

It's an energy problem created by bad governmental policy.

Regardless, California has a massive housing shortage. Massive numbers of people are homeless, and millions more are living in tiny shacks.

TRUE: Calif. ranks 49th in per capita housing supply

Out of every state in the Union, California has the lowest production of homes, per capita, of any state except Utah. Think about that. Only Utah is producing fewer homes than California, per capita.

And the number one reason, is because of cost. I had a friend who went to California with a degree in architecture. She ended up living with 4 other people, in a 4 bedroom apparent that was 900 sq.ft. 5 people, in a 4 bedroom apartment, and all of them have degrees. That's how expensive housing is, that even with a degree, you are rooming with 4 other people, in order to make rent, and not starve.

She came back to Ohio after a year, of living in miserable conditions. You all see how high the wages in California are, and think it's going to be great, only to find out you end up living like a poor person, because of housing prices.

Now..... you have a new law that requires solar panels. You can say that is brilliant until the end of time, but the fact is that will increase the cost of housing even more, and reduce the production of new home. Thus causing the cost of living space to go up on everyone.

You are 100% correct. The requirement for solar panels will also boost the cost of resale homes as they will be all that much more attractive to buyers.