Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[bripat9643]

When it comes to climate change the overwhelming belief is that it is real. Do you really not know this?

Nobody questions that the climate changes. We have had ice ages, and tropical periods. The question is whether Man is affecting climate, and if there is any man made "fix". All the solutions are more taxes, and fees on energy, and anything that uses energy. It is a government money grab.

It's more than that. Every product you own today has an environmental cost built right in. The reason people are so behind GW is because they think they really aren't paying for it. If all consumers knew what they actually spent on 'green" they would abandon any further attempts at making "whatever" cleaner.

An environmental cost, eh? You mean to like not dump your shit in the river? Who wants that?

Nope, a green cost. I'm in the transportation business. The government has forced manufacturers to invest thousands of dollars in cleaner trucks. Now we have to use this stuff called Diesel Emission Fluid (DEF). It's a separate container that squirts this magic fluid in your exhaust pipe to make it burn cleaner.

Between the DEF, the extreme cost to replace equipment, the down time because now trucks are constantly having problems due to the computer technology to maintain this environmental stuff, or getting rental trucks while the "green" problem is being repaired, the newer lower sulfur regulations that pulled diesel fuel above the price of gasoline (it used to be about a buck or so less per gallon) we have to transfer all these losses to our customers who make the products you and I buy in the store today.

So everything you buy has a green cost to it, it's just that you never knew about it.

The government has enforced all kinds of measures that protect the environment, not necessarily for climate change and yeah, if your business has a negative impact to the environment you kind of have to pay for it and most likely that does get passed onto the customer, it's called life.

Everything passed since Bush 41 has cost many orders of magnitude more than the return to the environment.

 

[bripat9643]

No one wants to pay trillions of dollars for solving a non-problem, moron.

You mean you don't want to pay for the rivers and streams to not be polluted?

I said a nonproblem, like so-called global warming.

Oh, I see. I really need to remind myself that you guys have a difficult time paying attention to the effects of climate change. What with your head stuck up your butts and all. Humidity OK?

The claim that humans are causing the climate to change is a hoax. That's what idiots like you have a difficult time paying attention to. What with your head stuck up your butts and all.

Another Rush Limbaugh ignoramus. He has proved that 98% of climatologists are lying hoaxers because 2 moron professors at an an obscure UK College discussed fudging numbers on some dumb experiment they screwed up... LOL!

The AGW cult members prove themselves wrong. They've been caught fudging the data countless times, and all their predictions turn out to be wrong.

 

[HappyJoy]

The government has enforced all kinds of measures that protect the environment, not necessarily for climate change and yeah, if your business has a negative impact to the environment you kind of have to pay for it and most likely that does get passed onto the customer, it's called life.

It's called a waste of money. Because after all this, there will be something else, and then something else after that, and something else after that.

Mooochele came out with a plan and had her husband put it into law. She made it so that all restaurants had to post calorie count on every item they sell. While the idea was complete stupidity because it didn't make one fat person skinny, I like the concept.

I say Trump should take off on that. Make it a law that every product we buy has to have an environmental cost on the label. For instance if you buy a car for 28K, the sticker should show that 8K went into making that vehicle greener. If you buy a lawnmower for 400 bucks, the sticker should reflect that 50 bucks of that went to green. A can of peaches, .15 went to green.

I mean, if everything we buy has a green cost to it, it's only right that we know what that cost is. Then see what kind of support you get for a greener country.

Blame it all on the Obamas LOL... Smart Smart people wanted that and better ingredient listing 4 a long time. Thank you Democrats again. Screw big food industry and their poison.

Bullshit. If customers want anything from a business, the business would provide it. Like you need to be some kind of genius to know that a big-mac combo is loaded with calories.

It's more than just about Big Macs, there salads can also be high in calories. Some places may label their products as being healthy when in fact they aren't.

Giving the consumer more information especially about things they put in their body is always better than eating a crap sandwich in the dark.

Yes, well the two key words are "giving" and "forcing."

I see, you have a problem with a company being 'forced' to tell you what is in the slop you're ramming down your throat?

 

[HappyJoy]

Oh, I see. I really need to remind myself that you guys have a difficult time paying attention to the effects of climate change. What with your head stuck up your butts and all. Humidity OK?

Yes, we are trying to ignore the effects of GW. Would you believe it's 75 degrees here right now? Two months ago it was snowing. That never happens.

That's weather. The intelligent are discussing climate.

The intelligent are????

Okay, so let's say I'm a rich guy, and I'm offering you (or anybody else) a billion dollars to raise the temperature of the earth by four degrees, how would you do it? Do you really think you could do it?

Where is this on the scale between reality and blowing fantasy bubbles out of your butt?

Oh, so you can't answer either. How surprising.

Answer your ridiculous question? 4 fucking degrees? If the average temperature goes up 4 degrees were fucked, it's over.

Man made climate change is something that has been going on since the dawn of the industrial revolution, not over night. I don't think anyone said a single person, rich or not could increase the global temp by 4 degrees. It takes all of human kind to get us to where we are now. You're question is a delusional waste of time.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

When it comes to climate change the overwhelming belief is that it is real. Do you really not know this?

Nobody questions that the climate changes. We have had ice ages, and tropical periods. The question is whether Man is affecting climate, and if there is any man made "fix". All the solutions are more taxes, and fees on energy, and anything that uses energy. It is a government money grab.

It's more than that. Every product you own today has an environmental cost built right in. The reason people are so behind GW is because they think they really aren't paying for it. If all consumers knew what they actually spent on 'green" they would abandon any further attempts at making "whatever" cleaner.

An environmental cost, eh? You mean to like not dump your shit in the river? Who wants that?

Nope, a green cost. I'm in the transportation business. The government has forced manufacturers to invest thousands of dollars in cleaner trucks. Now we have to use this stuff called Diesel Emission Fluid (DEF). It's a separate container that squirts this magic fluid in your exhaust pipe to make it burn cleaner.

Between the DEF, the extreme cost to replace equipment, the down time because now trucks are constantly having problems due to the computer technology to maintain this environmental stuff, or getting rental trucks while the "green" problem is being repaired, the newer lower sulfur regulations that pulled diesel fuel above the price of gasoline (it used to be about a buck or so less per gallon) we have to transfer all these losses to our customers who make the products you and I buy in the store today.

So everything you buy has a green cost to it, it's just that you never knew about it.

I recall when Diesel was less than half the price of gasoline.

Exactly, and a tractor-trailer averages about 6 miles to the gallon, so you can imagine how much money we went through since it was passed during the Bush years.

But ask any environmentalist if they are happy now. Ask them if they can breathe any better or if they notice the difference. Ask them if they are less concerned about the climate.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. All these unnecessary billions of dollars spent just on transportation, and the bottomless pit still has plenty of room for more money that will never make anybody happy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, we are trying to ignore the effects of GW. Would you believe it's 75 degrees here right now? Two months ago it was snowing. That never happens.

That's weather. The intelligent are discussing climate.

The intelligent are????

Okay, so let's say I'm a rich guy, and I'm offering you (or anybody else) a billion dollars to raise the temperature of the earth by four degrees, how would you do it? Do you really think you could do it?

Where is this on the scale between reality and blowing fantasy bubbles out of your butt?

Oh, so you can't answer either. How surprising.

Answer your ridiculous question? 4 fucking degrees? If the average temperature goes up 4 degress were fucked, it's over.

And you still didn't answer the question.

 

[OnePercenter]

Of course it's about the environment. It's the primary reason to consider solar. Savings are all based on projections. However the likelihood of the cost of electric power in California not going up is pretty slim with the state importing more power every year. The Cost of solar panels have dramatically dropped in price and there's no reason to expect that the drop won't continue as volume continues to rise.

If the majority of the people in California see global warming as a clear danger to the state, then it is certainly reasonable that the state should take action. Government changes in new construction requirements to deal with future potential problems is nothing new. California has revised building codes several times to lessen damage from earthquakes. Years ago, Florida revised codes for new construction to include hurricane construction. Building codes in all states were revised in the 20th century to provide additional electrical capacity and grounding in new construction to deal with the anticipated growth in home appliances.

The difference of course is that hurricanes, earthquakes, appliances are all real things. Global Warming is not real, it's a theory. And it's ridiculous to force people to buy things based on an unproven theory. It's like saying all new homes should have the largest room reserved as a church in case Jesus Christ comes back.

It's just a theory and a belief.

If you weren't brainwashed functional morons, you would have bought solar panels basically for free under Obama and now would be saving big time on your electrical bill. But no...

Our country is 20 trillion dollars in debt. The last thing I would do is be a participant adding to it with something as stupid as solar panels. If we keep heading in this direction, trust me, our debt will finish off this country long before global warming.

Eliminating the seven plus million people that have to work a second or third job to make ends meet, and the 20% of Americans making less than $20,000 a year would benefit the economy greatly. The number one problem that this country has is that the American workers make s*** for wages, and by voting for Republicans you're just making it worse.

Oh, so now Republican politicians set wages too?????

What's wrong with working a second job? For many of my working years, I worked six day a week jobs or had another part-time job. I'd still have one today if I didn't make property investments and became a landlord.

Why do you on the left believe that people should be paid more than their labor is worth? Why do you believe that the American consumer would support overpaid labor at a company?

Oh, so now Republican politicians set wages too?????

They have for decades by keeping wages artificially low.

What's wrong with working a second job? For many of my working years, I worked six day a week jobs or had another part-time job. I'd still have one today if I didn't make property investments and became a landlord.

You worked multiple jobs because your employer didn't pay you a livable wage.

Why do you on the left believe that people should be paid more than their labor is worth? Why do you believe that the American consumer would support overpaid labor at a company?

I'm only left in I feel that employees are a businesses greatest asset. The fact is that business owners and investors are grossly over-paid.

 

[HappyJoy]

Nobody questions that the climate changes. We have had ice ages, and tropical periods. The question is whether Man is affecting climate, and if there is any man made "fix". All the solutions are more taxes, and fees on energy, and anything that uses energy. It is a government money grab.

It's more than that. Every product you own today has an environmental cost built right in. The reason people are so behind GW is because they think they really aren't paying for it. If all consumers knew what they actually spent on 'green" they would abandon any further attempts at making "whatever" cleaner.

An environmental cost, eh? You mean to like not dump your shit in the river? Who wants that?

Nope, a green cost. I'm in the transportation business. The government has forced manufacturers to invest thousands of dollars in cleaner trucks. Now we have to use this stuff called Diesel Emission Fluid (DEF). It's a separate container that squirts this magic fluid in your exhaust pipe to make it burn cleaner.

Between the DEF, the extreme cost to replace equipment, the down time because now trucks are constantly having problems due to the computer technology to maintain this environmental stuff, or getting rental trucks while the "green" problem is being repaired, the newer lower sulfur regulations that pulled diesel fuel above the price of gasoline (it used to be about a buck or so less per gallon) we have to transfer all these losses to our customers who make the products you and I buy in the store today.

So everything you buy has a green cost to it, it's just that you never knew about it.

The government has enforced all kinds of measures that protect the environment, not necessarily for climate change and yeah, if your business has a negative impact to the environment you kind of have to pay for it and most likely that does get passed onto the customer, it's called life.

Everything passed since Bush 41 has cost many orders of magnitude more than the return to the environment.

Oh, that's interesting?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's called a waste of money. Because after all this, there will be something else, and then something else after that, and something else after that.

Mooochele came out with a plan and had her husband put it into law. She made it so that all restaurants had to post calorie count on every item they sell. While the idea was complete stupidity because it didn't make one fat person skinny, I like the concept.

I say Trump should take off on that. Make it a law that every product we buy has to have an environmental cost on the label. For instance if you buy a car for 28K, the sticker should show that 8K went into making that vehicle greener. If you buy a lawnmower for 400 bucks, the sticker should reflect that 50 bucks of that went to green. A can of peaches, .15 went to green.

I mean, if everything we buy has a green cost to it, it's only right that we know what that cost is. Then see what kind of support you get for a greener country.

Blame it all on the Obamas LOL... Smart Smart people wanted that and better ingredient listing 4 a long time. Thank you Democrats again. Screw big food industry and their poison.

Bullshit. If customers want anything from a business, the business would provide it. Like you need to be some kind of genius to know that a big-mac combo is loaded with calories.

It's more than just about Big Macs, there salads can also be high in calories. Some places may label their products as being healthy when in fact they aren't.

Giving the consumer more information especially about things they put in their body is always better than eating a crap sandwich in the dark.

Yes, well the two key words are "giving" and "forcing."

I see, you have a problem with a company being 'forced' to tell you what is in the slop you're ramming down your throat?

Yep, because anytime you use the words "government" and "force" in the same sentence, look out, because you're about to lose more liberty.

 

[HappyJoy]

Nobody questions that the climate changes. We have had ice ages, and tropical periods. The question is whether Man is affecting climate, and if there is any man made "fix". All the solutions are more taxes, and fees on energy, and anything that uses energy. It is a government money grab.

It's more than that. Every product you own today has an environmental cost built right in. The reason people are so behind GW is because they think they really aren't paying for it. If all consumers knew what they actually spent on 'green" they would abandon any further attempts at making "whatever" cleaner.

An environmental cost, eh? You mean to like not dump your shit in the river? Who wants that?

Nope, a green cost. I'm in the transportation business. The government has forced manufacturers to invest thousands of dollars in cleaner trucks. Now we have to use this stuff called Diesel Emission Fluid (DEF). It's a separate container that squirts this magic fluid in your exhaust pipe to make it burn cleaner.

Between the DEF, the extreme cost to replace equipment, the down time because now trucks are constantly having problems due to the computer technology to maintain this environmental stuff, or getting rental trucks while the "green" problem is being repaired, the newer lower sulfur regulations that pulled diesel fuel above the price of gasoline (it used to be about a buck or so less per gallon) we have to transfer all these losses to our customers who make the products you and I buy in the store today.

So everything you buy has a green cost to it, it's just that you never knew about it.

I recall when Diesel was less than half the price of gasoline.

Exactly, and a tractor-trailer averages about 6 miles to the gallon, so you can imagine how much money we went through since it was passed during the Bush years.

But ask any environmentalist if they are happy now. Ask them if they can breathe any better or if they notice the difference. Ask them if they are less concerned about the climate.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. All these unnecessary billions of dollars spent just on transportation, and the bottomless pit still has plenty of room for more money that will never make anybody happy.

Would you prefer that fuel economy standards be raised to 100 mpg now?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Will they also require the batteries to store the electricity? Without those, you're only off grid during daylight hours. You know, when everyone is at work or school...

There are no batteries. The solar panels feed right into the grid and you get your electricity the same way you always did. The difference is how the electricity is metered.

 

[HappyJoy]

That's weather. The intelligent are discussing climate.

The intelligent are????

Okay, so let's say I'm a rich guy, and I'm offering you (or anybody else) a billion dollars to raise the temperature of the earth by four degrees, how would you do it? Do you really think you could do it?

Where is this on the scale between reality and blowing fantasy bubbles out of your butt?

Oh, so you can't answer either. How surprising.

Answer your ridiculous question? 4 fucking degrees? If the average temperature goes up 4 degress were fucked, it's over.

And you still didn't answer the question.

Go back and read my whole post.

 

[HappyJoy]

Blame it all on the Obamas LOL... Smart Smart people wanted that and better ingredient listing 4 a long time. Thank you Democrats again. Screw big food industry and their poison.

Bullshit. If customers want anything from a business, the business would provide it. Like you need to be some kind of genius to know that a big-mac combo is loaded with calories.

It's more than just about Big Macs, there salads can also be high in calories. Some places may label their products as being healthy when in fact they aren't.

Giving the consumer more information especially about things they put in their body is always better than eating a crap sandwich in the dark.

Yes, well the two key words are "giving" and "forcing."

I see, you have a problem with a company being 'forced' to tell you what is in the slop you're ramming down your throat?

Yep, because anytime you use the words "government" and "force" in the same sentence, look out, because you're about to lose more liberty.

Right, you're hung up on bumper stickers, I get it. In the meantime consumer advocacy is very powerful, it keeps corporations from ripping us off.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They have for decades by keeping wages artificially low.

Really, do explain. What policies have the Republicans administered that had anything to do with what a private business pays their employees.

You worked multiple jobs because your employer didn't pay you a livable wage.

At times yes, at other times, no, I just got a second job to get ahead. This is the horse and carrot theory. If you feed a horse carrots, you're not going to get the work out of him as you can dangling a carrot in front of a horse.

As liberalism progressed, less and less people wanted to pull the cart. They just went to government for their daily allowance of carrots. Then complain that they aren't getting enough.

I'm only left in I feel that employees are a businesses greatest asset. The fact is that business owners and investors are grossly over-paid.

No, business people and investors don't get paid. They create their own money.

Of course, non-rich people can do the same, it's just they'd rater work for somebody else and bitch instead. But anybody not happy with the wage they make are welcome to open their own business and pay their workers whatever they like.

Businesses produce products or services. To sell their products or service, price is the main factor. Ss if you and I had widget factories, and I paid my employees what they were worth, and you overpaid all your employees, I'm going to steal all of your customers and put you out of business, because I can sell my widgets two dollars less than you can.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Will they also require the batteries to store the electricity? Without those, you're only off grid during daylight hours. You know, when everyone is at work or school...

There are no batteries. The solar panels feed right into the grid and you get your electricity the same way you always did. The difference is how the electricity is metered.

And of course....produced.

 

[francoHFW]

Oh, I see. I really need to remind myself that you guys have a difficult time paying attention to the effects of climate change. What with your head stuck up your butts and all. Humidity OK?

Yes, we are trying to ignore the effects of GW. Would you believe it's 75 degrees here right now? Two months ago it was snowing. That never happens.

That's weather. The intelligent are discussing climate.

The intelligent are????

Okay, so let's say I'm a rich guy, and I'm offering you (or anybody else) a billion dollars to raise the temperature of the earth by four degrees, how would you do it? Do you really think you could do it?

Where is this on the scale between reality and blowing fantasy bubbles out of your butt?

Oh, so you can't answer either. How surprising.

They have for decades by keeping wages artificially low.

Really, do explain. What policies have the Republicans administered that had anything to do with what a private business pays their employees.

You worked multiple jobs because your employer didn't pay you a livable wage.

At times yes, at other times, no, I just got a second job to get ahead. This is the horse and carrot theory. If you feed a horse carrots, you're not going to get the work out of him as you can dangling a carrot in front of a horse.

As liberalism progressed, less and less people wanted to pull the cart. They just went to government for their daily allowance of carrots. Then complain that they aren't getting enough.

I'm only left in I feel that employees are a businesses greatest asset. The fact is that business owners and investors are grossly over-paid.

No, business people and investors don't get paid. They create their own money.

Of course, non-rich people can do the same, it's just they'd rater work for somebody else and bitch instead. But anybody not happy with the wage they make are welcome to open their own business and pay their workers whatever they like.

Businesses produce products or services. To sell their products or service, price is the main factor. Ss if you and I had widget factories, and I paid my employees what they were worth, and you overpaid all your employees, I'm going to steal all of your customers and put you out of business, because I can sell my widgets two dollars less than you can.

Which is why we need Democrats running the government and policy again. Unions have been broken and the greatest generation died so there is no one else to protect the non rich.

 

[francoHFW]

Oh, I see. I really need to remind myself that you guys have a difficult time paying attention to the effects of climate change. What with your head stuck up your butts and all. Humidity OK?

Yes, we are trying to ignore the effects of GW. Would you believe it's 75 degrees here right now? Two months ago it was snowing. That never happens.

That's weather. The intelligent are discussing climate.

The intelligent are????

Okay, so let's say I'm a rich guy, and I'm offering you (or anybody else) a billion dollars to raise the temperature of the earth by four degrees, how would you do it? Do you really think you could do it?

Where is this on the scale between reality and blowing fantasy bubbles out of your butt?

Oh, so you can't answer either. How surprising.

Republicans can do it. They are still trying. Cutting pollution? Horrors!!

 

[francoHFW]

They have for decades by keeping wages artificially low.

Really, do explain. What policies have the Republicans administered that had anything to do with what a private business pays their employees.

You worked multiple jobs because your employer didn't pay you a livable wage.

At times yes, at other times, no, I just got a second job to get ahead. This is the horse and carrot theory. If you feed a horse carrots, you're not going to get the work out of him as you can dangling a carrot in front of a horse.

As liberalism progressed, less and less people wanted to pull the cart. They just went to government for their daily allowance of carrots. Then complain that they aren't getting enough.

I'm only left in I feel that employees are a businesses greatest asset. The fact is that business owners and investors are grossly over-paid.

No, business people and investors don't get paid. They create their own money.

Of course, non-rich people can do the same, it's just they'd rater work for somebody else and bitch instead. But anybody not happy with the wage they make are welcome to open their own business and pay their workers whatever they like.

Businesses produce products or services. To sell their products or service, price is the main factor. Ss if you and I had widget factories, and I paid my employees what they were worth, and you overpaid all your employees, I'm going to steal all of your customers and put you out of business, because I can sell my widgets two dollars less than you can.

Don't be obtuse. They have blocked a living wage and have broken the unions etc etc. Anything to save their greedy idiot brainwashing Mega rich Heroes and Masters, Super Dupe.

 

[hjmick]

Will they also require the batteries to store the electricity? Without those, you're only off grid during daylight hours. You know, when everyone is at work or school...

There are no batteries. The solar panels feed right into the grid and you get your electricity the same way you always did. The difference is how the electricity is metered.

What do you mean? There are no batteries, or there are no batteries required? Because absolutely there are batteries for storing electricity generated by solar cells and absolutely without them, once the sun goes down you're back on the grid.

 

[HappyJoy]

Will they also require the batteries to store the electricity? Without those, you're only off grid during daylight hours. You know, when everyone is at work or school...

There are no batteries. The solar panels feed right into the grid and you get your electricity the same way you always did. The difference is how the electricity is metered.

What do you mean? There are no batteries, or there are no batteries required? Because absolutely there are batteries for storing electricity generated by solar cells and absolutely without them, once the sun goes down you're back on the grid.

Agree, batteries are optional. I'm thinking about going with Tesla's powerwall, it's a little expensive now so waiting for the price to drop. In the meantime I use my solar during the day (when it's the most expensive and most in demand) and sell back at night and collect credits that will help me get through the hot summer.

Batteries for me don't save too much because I can sell back my unused energy, if that were not the case then they would be more cost effective.