Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[Correll]

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?

1. The GOP of the 50 and 60s that pushed racial equality was not "liberal", Nixon had rock solid anti-communist cred.

2. Black concerns have not been ignored for years. They have constantly been addressed.

3. They were addressed badly by cowardly or corrupt politician that for different reasons would not address the real causes of the problems, but lack of addressed did not happen.

GOP in the 50s and 60s actually had a powerful liberal branch

By Reagan, they had been driven from the party

1. The party as a whole supported civil rights, regardless of which wing of the party was in charge at any particular time.

2. Black concerns have not been ignored for years. They have constantly been addressed.

3. They were addressed badly by cowardly or corrupt politician that for different reasons would not address the real causes of the problems, but lack of addressed did not happen.

 

[Mac1958]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

You are selling yourself a lie...and the first starts with "conservatism". It has been a failure. It is THAT recognition which put Trump in office and will keep him there.
Nobody thought it would go "swimmingly". Well nobody with a brain. You can check my previous posts on this back as long as I have been a member. Trump is doing fine but we know we face an entrenched elite. Trump was the political hand grenade we threw into the swamp but that is only part of the battle.
If you are speaking of the spending bill we know democrats will always hold the military hostage for their constituents overseas. I think Trump knows it as well.

But you snicker because the people are thwarted again. That only makes your reckoning worse.

I think that "political hand grenade" is a very appropriate metaphor for Trump. Lots of destruction and collateral damage. And sometimes the grenade goes off in the thrower's hand.

That actually brings up a third lie they told themselves: That the hand grenade known as Trump was the only option they had left. That trotting out a grotesque, vulgar man-child as a middle finger to the country was all they could do. Dubya, then Palin, now Trump - when did the GOP become so anti-intellectual, so shallow, so simplistic?

My guess is that Trump is a primal scream, a last gasp. We'll see.
.

Back to claiming that the left are all "intellectuals", Mac? Like Nancy Pelosi is a "deep thinker"? Give that nonsense a break...you had Joe Biden who's so stupid he had to cheat to get through law school.

As for how we ended up with Trump? Take a look in the mirror my friend. It was the liberal media that pushed Trump hard when he was running against other Republicans for the nomination. CNN LOVED Trump! Why? Because you all thought he was the guy that Hillary Clinton...as damaged and corrupt as she was...could beat! Your analogy of Trump being a hand grenade that sometimes goes off in your hand is rather apt but in this case he was the hand grenade that many on the left wanted but now he has in essence gone off in their hands!

Nope, didn't say the Left are all intellectuals. So, that straw man can be tossed.

You have the guy you want, and the Regressive Left is licking its chops for '18 and '20. We'll see how it goes.
.

The Regressive Left got the guy THEY wanted, Mac! The problem is THAT GUY BEAT HILLARY! Something that they didn't think could happen in a million years. Now they're licking their wounds trying to figure out what they're going to do if Trump fulfills campaign promises. If he does...they're in trouble because they're going to run another Obama...someone with very few accomplishments but a good stage presence. I'm guessing it will be Kamala Harris.

I think you're right about the Left, CNN and Trump. They shined the light on him with everything they had, because they thought he was an easy mark. What they (and I) completely underestimated was the amount of pushback that was coming.

Part 2 of my OP is about something different, though. The economy could do great, unemployment could drop to 0, the stock market could hit a zillion, the fat kid from North Korea could kiss Trump's feet. None of those would matter to a large and growing segment of the population, especially minorities, because they have other priorities. So listing those off as Trump victories misses a pretty big point.
.

 

[NickM]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

So, the same sort of hubris that bit the Dems in the ass?

Life isn't either/or, one or the other, binary. Maybe there's another way.
.

I'm not sure our political infrastructure is capable of producing it, but there has never been a better time for a party that actually seeks consensus, rather than a narrow majority, when formulating policy goals.

Yup. We're in desperate need, but I don't see how we get from here to there.
.

Where is there?

Sent from my XT1650 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

 

[Mac1958]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

So, the same sort of hubris that bit the Dems in the ass?

Life isn't either/or, one or the other, binary. Maybe there's another way.
.

I'm not sure our political infrastructure is capable of producing it, but there has never been a better time for a party that actually seeks consensus, rather than a narrow majority, when formulating policy goals.

Yup. We're in desperate need, but I don't see how we get from here to there.
.

Where is there?

Sent from my XT1650 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

Read the post before mine.

"...a party that actually seeks consensus, rather than a narrow majority, when formulating policy goals."
.

 

[Correll]

I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

.. and minorities have noticed.
.

Been lied to by the vile media.


The only people empowering the white nationalists are the media that have a vested interests in lying about their size and relevance.

You can't blame everything on the media.

People watch and listen and live, and they see.

Was it the media's fault when Trump claimed to not know who David Duke is? Was that fake news?

Come on.
.

Trump has denounced white supremacists over and over, before and after that single example.

After a certain point, the question becomes not a question, but a propaganda smear, where by asking it, you make the implication that it is a reasonable question to ask, when it is not.


WHat should have happened in any sane world, is that Trump should have punched that fucker in the face for asking the question.


ANd now, because he blows off that question, that one time, the media never lets it die, lies about it, and creates the false impression that Trump is racist.


I do blame the media. I hold them accountable.

Trump only renounced white supremacists after catching flak for initially supporting them

Some of them are good people

He said that some good people were on both sides of the issue of historical statues, AND specifically that rally.


Nothing in his statement can reasonable be seen as suggesting that he was referring to the white supremacists.




The way the media and the left has lied about this, including you personally, RW,


is a perfect example of what I am talking about.



They lied so much and so loud and so often about the President "supporting" white supremacists, that it has become a rock solid belief by a good portion of the country.


There is nothing that anyone on the right can do about that.


Mac suggests that we need to challenge "racist" in our party to reach out to the minorities.


So, what? Are we supposed to throw an effective President under the Bus and just give up for 4 years and lose the next election because of an effective lie by the vile left?


Lies like this, are


1. Very effective. There are large portions of minorities that agree with the GOP on many policies, yet they vote in blocks against us because of these vile lies.


2. are tearing this nation apart. A large percentage of the nation really believes that President Trump is sympathetic to white nationalists, if not one himself. They are terrified of his intentions, naturally and have a false image of half the nation that voted for Trump being white nationalists themselves.

 

[Oldstyle]

You are selling yourself a lie...and the first starts with "conservatism". It has been a failure. It is THAT recognition which put Trump in office and will keep him there.
Nobody thought it would go "swimmingly". Well nobody with a brain. You can check my previous posts on this back as long as I have been a member. Trump is doing fine but we know we face an entrenched elite. Trump was the political hand grenade we threw into the swamp but that is only part of the battle.
If you are speaking of the spending bill we know democrats will always hold the military hostage for their constituents overseas. I think Trump knows it as well.

But you snicker because the people are thwarted again. That only makes your reckoning worse.

I think that "political hand grenade" is a very appropriate metaphor for Trump. Lots of destruction and collateral damage. And sometimes the grenade goes off in the thrower's hand.

That actually brings up a third lie they told themselves: That the hand grenade known as Trump was the only option they had left. That trotting out a grotesque, vulgar man-child as a middle finger to the country was all they could do. Dubya, then Palin, now Trump - when did the GOP become so anti-intellectual, so shallow, so simplistic?

My guess is that Trump is a primal scream, a last gasp. We'll see.
.

Back to claiming that the left are all "intellectuals", Mac? Like Nancy Pelosi is a "deep thinker"? Give that nonsense a break...you had Joe Biden who's so stupid he had to cheat to get through law school.

As for how we ended up with Trump? Take a look in the mirror my friend. It was the liberal media that pushed Trump hard when he was running against other Republicans for the nomination. CNN LOVED Trump! Why? Because you all thought he was the guy that Hillary Clinton...as damaged and corrupt as she was...could beat! Your analogy of Trump being a hand grenade that sometimes goes off in your hand is rather apt but in this case he was the hand grenade that many on the left wanted but now he has in essence gone off in their hands!

Nope, didn't say the Left are all intellectuals. So, that straw man can be tossed.

You have the guy you want, and the Regressive Left is licking its chops for '18 and '20. We'll see how it goes.
.

The Regressive Left got the guy THEY wanted, Mac! The problem is THAT GUY BEAT HILLARY! Something that they didn't think could happen in a million years. Now they're licking their wounds trying to figure out what they're going to do if Trump fulfills campaign promises. If he does...they're in trouble because they're going to run another Obama...someone with very few accomplishments but a good stage presence. I'm guessing it will be Kamala Harris.

I think you're right about the Left, CNN and Trump. They shined the light on him with everything they had, because they thought he was an easy mark. What they (and I) completely underestimated was the amount of pushback that was coming.

Part 2 of my OP is about something different, though. The economy could do great, unemployment could drop to 0, the stock market could hit a zillion, the fat kid from North Korea could kiss Trump's feet. None of those would matter to a large and growing segment of the population, especially minorities, because they have other priorities. So listing those off as Trump victories misses a pretty big point.
.

In the words of James Carville, Mac..."It's the economy, stupid!" While you are right about a large segment of the population hating Trump no matter how successful he is as President (and I believe I made the point earlier that those people would hate him even MORE if his policies were successful!) the segment of the population that gets people elected in this day and age...independents...are going to vote according to who has improved their lot financially. If the economy is doing great...unemployment is low...and the stock market is high...they aren't voting for a liberal who may very well change that. I'm sorry but that's not happening.

 

[Correll]

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.


Trump is a true outsider. The leadership of both parties fought against him. THe big money of both parties fought against him.

The policies he ran on, if implemented, will reverse bi-partisan policies with generations behind them.


Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.

I'm not. My point hasn't changed. You just obviously missed the point in the first place.
Go back and reread.

Just keep dismissing it. Then be surprised when Change happens.


Won't it piss you off when your friends and peers start seeing rising wages.

Rising wages will be great...as long as they aren't accompanied by a rise in prices due to the Trade War the homunculus orange blob wants to start.

The Trade War has been going on for a long time now. The difference is we are not just lying there taking it anymore.

 

[Mac1958]

I think that "political hand grenade" is a very appropriate metaphor for Trump. Lots of destruction and collateral damage. And sometimes the grenade goes off in the thrower's hand.

That actually brings up a third lie they told themselves: That the hand grenade known as Trump was the only option they had left. That trotting out a grotesque, vulgar man-child as a middle finger to the country was all they could do. Dubya, then Palin, now Trump - when did the GOP become so anti-intellectual, so shallow, so simplistic?

My guess is that Trump is a primal scream, a last gasp. We'll see.
.

Back to claiming that the left are all "intellectuals", Mac? Like Nancy Pelosi is a "deep thinker"? Give that nonsense a break...you had Joe Biden who's so stupid he had to cheat to get through law school.

As for how we ended up with Trump? Take a look in the mirror my friend. It was the liberal media that pushed Trump hard when he was running against other Republicans for the nomination. CNN LOVED Trump! Why? Because you all thought he was the guy that Hillary Clinton...as damaged and corrupt as she was...could beat! Your analogy of Trump being a hand grenade that sometimes goes off in your hand is rather apt but in this case he was the hand grenade that many on the left wanted but now he has in essence gone off in their hands!

Nope, didn't say the Left are all intellectuals. So, that straw man can be tossed.

You have the guy you want, and the Regressive Left is licking its chops for '18 and '20. We'll see how it goes.
.

The Regressive Left got the guy THEY wanted, Mac! The problem is THAT GUY BEAT HILLARY! Something that they didn't think could happen in a million years. Now they're licking their wounds trying to figure out what they're going to do if Trump fulfills campaign promises. If he does...they're in trouble because they're going to run another Obama...someone with very few accomplishments but a good stage presence. I'm guessing it will be Kamala Harris.

I think you're right about the Left, CNN and Trump. They shined the light on him with everything they had, because they thought he was an easy mark. What they (and I) completely underestimated was the amount of pushback that was coming.

Part 2 of my OP is about something different, though. The economy could do great, unemployment could drop to 0, the stock market could hit a zillion, the fat kid from North Korea could kiss Trump's feet. None of those would matter to a large and growing segment of the population, especially minorities, because they have other priorities. So listing those off as Trump victories misses a pretty big point.
.

In the words of James Carville, Mac..."It's the economy, stupid!" While you are right about a large segment of the population hating Trump no matter how successful he is as President (and I believe I made the point earlier that those people would hate him even MORE if his policies were successful!) the segment of the population that gets people elected in this day and age...independents...are going to vote according to who has improved their lot financially. If the economy is doing great...unemployment is low...and the stock market is high...they aren't voting for a liberal who may very well change that. I'm sorry but that's not happening.

Well, again, Carville may have been right when he said that, but the country has changed since then. There are a lot of people whose priorities are not the same.

We disagree. We'll see.
.

 

[Correll]

I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

.. and minorities have noticed.
.

Been lied to by the vile media.


The only people empowering the white nationalists are the media that have a vested interests in lying about their size and relevance.

You can't blame everything on the media.

People watch and listen and live, and they see.

Was it the media's fault when Trump claimed to not know who David Duke is? Was that fake news?

Come on.
.

Trump has denounced white supremacists over and over, before and after that single example.

After a certain point, the question becomes not a question, but a propaganda smear, where by asking it, you make the implication that it is a reasonable question to ask, when it is not.


WHat should have happened in any sane world, is that Trump should have punched that fucker in the face for asking the question.


ANd now, because he blows off that question, that one time, the media never lets it die, lies about it, and creates the false impression that Trump is racist.


I do blame the media. I hold them accountable.

Trump speaks out of both sides of his mouth. He is a liar, and one who lies so much he becomes confused; his values begin and end with Money, and as such his concern is always how what he says will impact him and his money.

1. MOst politicians say different statements at different times. I can link to many statements of Trump clearly denouncing white supremacy. YOu lefties cannot link to one statement of his, clearly or not, supporting white supremacy.

yet you tell the lie over and over again.

You are tearing this nation apart with your vile lies.



2. If you believe that Trump is motivated by money, then it is absurd for you to believe that he would support a movement with no money and no power and no support.


David Duke ran for President and got 0.04 percent of the national popular vote.


That's what White Supremacy has to offer Donald Trump.

 

[Flash]

L


First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Lots of welfare queens in this country and The Swamp is deep and wide. We know that.

Second,

that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?


.

Yes we know that the illegals, queers, welfare queens, anti gun nuts, Feminazi. Moon Bats and environmental wackos have different priorities. We have been fighting those sonofbitches for a long time. What welse is new?

 

[Oldstyle]

Back to claiming that the left are all "intellectuals", Mac? Like Nancy Pelosi is a "deep thinker"? Give that nonsense a break...you had Joe Biden who's so stupid he had to cheat to get through law school.

As for how we ended up with Trump? Take a look in the mirror my friend. It was the liberal media that pushed Trump hard when he was running against other Republicans for the nomination. CNN LOVED Trump! Why? Because you all thought he was the guy that Hillary Clinton...as damaged and corrupt as she was...could beat! Your analogy of Trump being a hand grenade that sometimes goes off in your hand is rather apt but in this case he was the hand grenade that many on the left wanted but now he has in essence gone off in their hands!

Nope, didn't say the Left are all intellectuals. So, that straw man can be tossed.

You have the guy you want, and the Regressive Left is licking its chops for '18 and '20. We'll see how it goes.
.

The Regressive Left got the guy THEY wanted, Mac! The problem is THAT GUY BEAT HILLARY! Something that they didn't think could happen in a million years. Now they're licking their wounds trying to figure out what they're going to do if Trump fulfills campaign promises. If he does...they're in trouble because they're going to run another Obama...someone with very few accomplishments but a good stage presence. I'm guessing it will be Kamala Harris.

I think you're right about the Left, CNN and Trump. They shined the light on him with everything they had, because they thought he was an easy mark. What they (and I) completely underestimated was the amount of pushback that was coming.

Part 2 of my OP is about something different, though. The economy could do great, unemployment could drop to 0, the stock market could hit a zillion, the fat kid from North Korea could kiss Trump's feet. None of those would matter to a large and growing segment of the population, especially minorities, because they have other priorities. So listing those off as Trump victories misses a pretty big point.
.

In the words of James Carville, Mac..."It's the economy, stupid!" While you are right about a large segment of the population hating Trump no matter how successful he is as President (and I believe I made the point earlier that those people would hate him even MORE if his policies were successful!) the segment of the population that gets people elected in this day and age...independents...are going to vote according to who has improved their lot financially. If the economy is doing great...unemployment is low...and the stock market is high...they aren't voting for a liberal who may very well change that. I'm sorry but that's not happening.

Well, again, Carville may have been right when he said that, but the country has changed since then. There are a lot of people whose priorities are not the same.

We disagree. We'll see.
.

Has it really changed? I think you're rather naive if you think it has, Mac! People look at how things affect THEM. Especially people who are only now starting to recover from the Great Recession. Hard to vote out someone who put money in your 401K and created jobs for you and your neighbors. Just saying...

 

[Mac1958]

L


First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Lots of welfare queens in this country and The Swamp is deep and wide. We know that.

Second,

that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?


.

Yes we know that the illegals, queers, welfare queens, antoi gun nuts, Feminazi. Moon Bats and environmental wackos have different priorities. We have been fighting those sonofbitches for a long time. What welse is new?

And there's my point.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Has it really changed? I think you're rather naive if you think it has, Mac! People look at how things affect THEM. Especially people who are only now starting to recover from the Great Recession. Hard to vote out someone who put money in your 401K and created jobs for you and your neighbors. Just saying...

You're completely missing my point, which is exactly what I'm talking about. The GOP just isn't seeing what's coming. Here are a couple of points I made earlier:
.

Look at our massive cultural changes, including entertainment, social mores, PC, Identity Politics. None of that happened overnight, they've all been expanding in influence over time, and the GOP is on the opposite side of all of them. This isn't economic or political, it's cultural. This has been brewing for at least two generations now, and the scale is about to tip.

The GOP can choose to do nothing about it. It can choose to ignore the priorities of this massive wave. That's up to them.

I'm of mixed race. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.

 

[Correll]

.....

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?

1. The GOP of the 50 and 60s that pushed racial equality was not "liberal", Nixon had rock solid anti-communist cred.

Nixon, like Johnson was a politician.

The southern Dems were absolutely conservative. The people from the north that came down in bus loads and the people in the south that joined them were largely liberal but included many conservative religious people who opposed racism. So the movement was a mix.

That is what I mean by parties are not the same as ideologies. The southern Dems were not the same as the northern Dems, and they were given the leeway to inact racist laws so the Dems could hold the south. That fell apart with civil rights.

2. Black concerns have not been ignored for years. They have constantly been addressed.

3. They were addressed badly by cowardly or corrupt politician that for different reasons would not address the real causes of the problems, but lack of addressed did not happen.

On #2 I disagree, racial disparities in the criminal justice system was never really addressed until Obama became, and even then it was baby steps.

1. Nixon, the gop as a whole, the liberal win and the conservative wing, has been at the forefront of civil rights the whole history of the Party up to present day.


2. No group gets ALL of their concerns met. Black concerns have been constantly being addressed for generations. THe idea that BLM is an reaction to black concerns not being addressed is wrong.

 

[Flash]

L


First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Lots of welfare queens in this country and The Swamp is deep and wide. We know that.

Second,

that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?


.

Yes we know that the illegals, queers, welfare queens, antoi gun nuts, Feminazi. Moon Bats and environmental wackos have different priorities. We have been fighting those sonofbitches for a long time. What welse is new?

And there's my point.
.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Conservatives know that his country is turning into a socialist shithole and it is a uphill battle to fight that destruction.

In the long run we probably won't win.

 

[Correll]

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?

Nobody in the rust belt has been labeled racist simply for concern over losing jobs. That's especially true since the REAL reason jobs were lost has nothing to do with ethnic minorities.

They have been lumping of those people into one label...deploarable. And that automatically negates their concerns.

And yes, the reasons for job loss are not because of immigrants, they are diverse, complex and regional. But it isn’t about facts it is about perceptions and addressing them. How can you address them when you have already decided they aren’t worth listening to? Go in there and dog jobs, pensions, community revival, drug addiction treatment and prevention, healthcare, and boosting education and vocational retraining. These people don’t want to hear about lgbtq rights, they need their immediate concerns addressed.

If I told you that all of those things are addressed in the Dem platform but they aren't perceived as being addressed by those in the rust belt because they have been led to focus on the things like LTBQ rights as they have real disdain for gay people....would you see merit in my comment?

Yes, I would. But there is the platform and then there is what is emphasized by candidates. I would need need to do some more reading.

Trump's platform was trade and immigration, not fighting against gays. I don't recall him ever discussing the issue.


TRADE AND IMMIGRATION.

 

[Mac1958]

L


First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Lots of welfare queens in this country and The Swamp is deep and wide. We know that.

Second,

that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?


.

Yes we know that the illegals, queers, welfare queens, antoi gun nuts, Feminazi. Moon Bats and environmental wackos have different priorities. We have been fighting those sonofbitches for a long time. What welse is new?

And there's my point.
.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Conservatives know that his country is turning into a socialist shithole and it is a uphill battle to fight that destruction.

In the long run we probably won't win.

You're going to lose because you've been listening to the wrong voices. You've been led down the wrong path by people whose highest priorities are ratings.

You bought into it. That's your own fault.
.

 

[Correll]

I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

.. and minorities have noticed.
.

Been lied to by the vile media.


The only people empowering the white nationalists are the media that have a vested interests in lying about their size and relevance.

You can't blame everything on the media.

People watch and listen and live, and they see.

Was it the media's fault when Trump claimed to not know who David Duke is? Was that fake news?

Come on.
.

Trump has denounced white supremacists over and over, before and after that single example.

After a certain point, the question becomes not a question, but a propaganda smear, where by asking it, you make the implication that it is a reasonable question to ask, when it is not.


WHat should have happened in any sane world, is that Trump should have punched that fucker in the face for asking the question.


ANd now, because he blows off that question, that one time, the media never lets it die, lies about it, and creates the false impression that Trump is racist.


I do blame the media. I hold them accountable.

Trump is a bully! He may or may not be a racist or a bigot (his record suggests he is), but for sure he is a demagogue (& a charlatan) whose rhetoric is directed to appeal to racists and misogynists; which also includes bigots who fear and thus hate all sizes, shapes, colors and creeds who hold opinions which do not support their fears.

That's an excellent answer. If your goal was to inform us that you hate Trump.

It in no way addressed the point, ie the terrible damage the Left's lies are doing to this nation, by setting vast segments of the nation at each other's throats with their vile lies,

specifically regarding the lie that Trump defended or sympathized with or sides with White Supremacists, with the lie


about the "some good people on both sides" comment.



I ever tell you about my discussions with pro life blacks who vote for pro-abortion dems over pro-life republicans?


You have people who literally believe that abortion is killing hundreds of thousands of black babies a year and they are voting for candidates who support that.


YOu have terrorized tens of millions Americans with your lies, and you should be ashamed of yourselves.


YOu are tearing this nation apart.

 

[kaz]

This is a huge reason we need a border wall. It's so unfair for people to go through that and then we have option B of walk across our southern border and cut in line. We could accept so many more legal immigrants who follow the law if we didn't do that and accept the criminals who walk across our southern border now

You don't see the chicken-and-egg in that? The reason we have a problem with illegal immigration is because we aren't accepting enough legal immigrants. If we opened that up, most people would use the legal channels, and we could be pretty certain that those who weren't were 'bad guys'. As it is, most Americans recognize that most 'illegal' immigrants are just poor people trying to feed their families. That's why we can't get behind putting them all in jail, or building a wall, or whatever authoritarian horseshit Trumpsters are cheering for.

And that is why we need bi-partisan comprehensive immigration reform, not bandaid approaches. It seems to me that if the parties could apply the same energy, determination, and give and take that they did to the budget bill - they could accomplish this instead of kicking it down the road again and again.

I agree with you completely. I don't believe it's an issue anyone wants die on. But Trump was able to get where he is by stirring up long hidden fears and misgivings over these people to the point where elected officials are hesitant to make a stand. IOW, Trump screwed the pooch by making it such an issue.

DThere is no compromise when Democrats want the southern border to remain open and flood in a million poor voters a year. You have to have the same objective to compromise

 

[Flash]

[Q

You're going to lose because you've been listening to the wrong voices. You've been led down the wrong path by people whose highest priorities are ratings.

You bought into it. That's your own fault.
.

You just made my point.

You think it is the right path for this country to become a socialist shithole.

Let me guess. You think Obama did a wonderful job and that Crooked Hillary was the most qualified candidate ever for President and you were with Her.

You Moon Bats are delusional as hell.

You will probably win in the long run and this country will be another Venezuela but hey, at least you will getting a nice welfare check for awhile so who cares?[