Constitutional Right To Peacefully Assemble Latest 'Victim' of Govt COVID-19 Crackdown

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Raleigh is a liberal democrat dominated city

of course the libs in charge are going to push their weight around

Funny how the word has come to mean anything BUT liberal.

"Funny" because the Cult of Ignance can't be bothered to learn what it actually means.

Okay, genius. Tell me what "liberal" means?

.

 

[Pogo]

If only we could see the Covid-19 virus as well as we can see second hand smoke........ then we could just ban the people who expose others to it.

If only we could get Dr. Fauci to tell the truth and drive it home on National TEE VEE. . .

Is anyone getting tired of this rightwing whine fest about "shut downs" and "constitutional rights"?

The shut down sucks, but the whining (and I'm not talking about job loss, a valid complaint) but the whining about not being able to get together in large groups is pretty shallow.

Quarantine is nothing new. Restricting large gatherings is during an epidemic is nothing new. But this level of whining is.

Anyone over 70 probably remembers quarantine during the polio outbreaks...

“But absolutely, when coronavirus hit, the first thing I thought of were those summers in the 1940s, how you couldn’t go to pools, you couldn’t go to the movies, you just stayed home,” says Gray, who as a child lived in Kansas City. “When I was in high school, a wonderful young man got polio. It was just so terrifying for us.”

All I can think of is that these nutballs are honestly UNAWARE that there's an infectious pandemic going on, OR that they are aware but it's more important to "get muh name on the innerwebs". What a gaggle of sociopaths.

This isn't our first, it certainly won't be our last. We should be suspicious as to why it is being treated as such.

". . . .This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.2. . . "

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?fbclid=IwAR2dEJYOp3V-jFePwYLT7oJZZDSTzfFkT6blOkGEtMGHYHo6aWFrh3dIqoc

Nothing should be used to abrogate the civil rights and civil liberties of the people.

uh HUH. In other words given the comparison articulated above you would echo W.C. Fields' "On the whole I'd rather be in Philadelphia". Which was btw a proposed epitaph. You'd be free to watch a parade and then equally free to have your body picked up by a morgue wagon a few days later.

That's fine, if that's what you want. What isn't fine is infecting innocent people around you. Perhaps there's an obscure "right to infect" clause in the Constitution that has eluded us. And I'm afraid that brings us right back to what "assembling peaceably" means. There's just no way around it.

 

[Pogo]

Raleigh is a liberal democrat dominated city

of course the libs in charge are going to push their weight around

Funny how the word has come to mean anything BUT liberal.

"Funny" because the Cult of Ignance can't be bothered to learn what it actually means.

Okay, genius. Tell me what "liberal" means?

Thought you'd never ask.

Liberalism is the belief that power derives from the consent of the governed and NOT from a hierarchy of clergy and aristocracy --- or in other words authoritarianism. The Liberal government acts like a referee, it stands out of the way unless that body of the governed is ITSELF threatened. Otherwise it's the political philosophy version of the Wiccan Rede: "An' ye harm none, do what ye will".

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Latin: Liber = Free

Encyclopedia Britannica - Liberalism

Liberalism, political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics. Liberals typically believe that government is necessary to protect individuals from being harmed by others, but they also recognize that government itself can pose a threat to liberty. As the revolutionary American pamphleteer Thomas Paine expressed it in Common Sense (1776), government is at best “a necessary evil.” Laws, judges, and police are needed to secure the individual’s life and liberty, but their coercive power may also be turned against him. The problem, then, is to devise a system that gives government the power necessary to protect individual liberty but also prevents those who govern from abusing that power.

Pogo?

Where is your dumb ass?

You got some 'splainin' to do.

.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Thought you'd never ask.

Liberalism is the belief that power derives from the consent of the governed and NOT from a hierarchy of clergy and aristocracy --- or in other words authoritarianism. The Liberal government acts like a referee, it stands out of the way unless that body of the governed is ITSELF threatened. Otherwise it's the political philosophy version of the Wiccan Rede: "An' ye harm none, do what ye will".

Ah. That definition works too.

Tell me how Commie = Liberal.

Tell me how massive illiberal crackdowns on individual freedoms is liberal.

This should be REALLY fun to watch.

.

 

[Mac-7]

Raleigh is a liberal democrat dominated city

of course the libs in charge are going to push their weight around

Funny how the word has come to mean anything BUT liberal.

"Funny" because the Cult of Ignance can't be bothered to learn what it actually means.

Okay, genius. Tell me what "liberal" means?

Thought you'd never ask.

Liberalism is the belief that power derives from the consent of the governed and NOT from a hierarchy of clergy and aristocracy --- or in other words authoritarianism. The Liberal government acts like a referee, it stands out of the way unless that body of the governed is ITSELF threatened. Otherwise it's the political philosophy version of the Wiccan Rede: "An' ye harm none, do what ye will".

I guess Wiccans can define themselves however they please

sort of like boys calling themselves girls

but the rest of us do not have to agree

 

[Pogo]

Thought you'd never ask.

Liberalism is the belief that power derives from the consent of the governed and NOT from a hierarchy of clergy and aristocracy --- or in other words authoritarianism. The Liberal government acts like a referee, it stands out of the way unless that body of the governed is ITSELF threatened. Otherwise it's the political philosophy version of the Wiccan Rede: "An' ye harm none, do what ye will".

Ah. That definition works too.

Tell me how Commie = Liberal.

Tell me how massive illiberal crackdowns on individual freedoms is liberal.

This should be REALLY fun to watch.

I can't stand your strawmen up for you. That's what makes them strawmen.

 

[Pogo]

Raleigh is a liberal democrat dominated city

of course the libs in charge are going to push their weight around

Funny how the word has come to mean anything BUT liberal.

"Funny" because the Cult of Ignance can't be bothered to learn what it actually means.

Okay, genius. Tell me what "liberal" means?

Thought you'd never ask.

Liberalism is the belief that power derives from the consent of the governed and NOT from a hierarchy of clergy and aristocracy --- or in other words authoritarianism. The Liberal government acts like a referee, it stands out of the way unless that body of the governed is ITSELF threatened. Otherwise it's the political philosophy version of the Wiccan Rede: "An' ye harm none, do what ye will".

I guess Wiccans can define themselves however they please

sort of like boys calling themselves girls

but the rest of us do not have to agree

Whether you frickin' "agree" is irrelevant to anything. The poster asked me for a definition and I gave him one.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I can't stand your strawmen up for you. That's what makes them strawmen.

What the fuck kind of copout response is that shit?

You're wrong and you can't admit it.

This shit is NOT liberalism and you fucking know it.

.

 

[Pogo]

Latin: Liber = Free

Encyclopedia Britannica - Liberalism

Liberalism, political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics. Liberals typically believe that government is necessary to protect individuals from being harmed by others, but they also recognize that government itself can pose a threat to liberty. As the revolutionary American pamphleteer Thomas Paine expressed it in Common Sense (1776), government is at best “a necessary evil.” Laws, judges, and police are needed to secure the individual’s life and liberty, but their coercive power may also be turned against him. The problem, then, is to devise a system that gives government the power necessary to protect individual liberty but also prevents those who govern from abusing that power.

Pogo?

Where is your dumb ass?

You got some 'splainin' to do.

What's to splain? That I defined it in my own words and you used a cut-n-paste? There's no conflict here.

 

[MisterBeale]

Is anyone getting tired of this rightwing whine fest about "shut downs" and "constitutional rights"?

The shut down sucks, but the whining (and I'm not talking about job loss, a valid complaint) but the whining about not being able to get together in large groups is pretty shallow.

Quarantine is nothing new. Restricting large gatherings is during an epidemic is nothing new. But this level of whining is.

Anyone over 70 probably remembers quarantine during the polio outbreaks...

“But absolutely, when coronavirus hit, the first thing I thought of were those summers in the 1940s, how you couldn’t go to pools, you couldn’t go to the movies, you just stayed home,” says Gray, who as a child lived in Kansas City. “When I was in high school, a wonderful young man got polio. It was just so terrifying for us.”

maybe. maybe people are pretty shallow. but if people have legitimate questions about what we're being told vs. seeing, calling them shallow for asking is simply another form of shaming. you don't believe it, i will call you names.

and while a quarantine may be nothing new, i certainly have never seen an entire city do it; much less most of the world. to think people will sit and behave for an indefinite undefined period of time and not question why is simply unreasonable.

"Never seen it" of course is not the same as "never heard of it".

I alluded to this upthread but just in case anybody's too drowning in "Agenda 2030" and/or avoiding at all costs dabbling in what the word "peaceably" means, to know about this:

>> In an effort to boost morale for the war and also to sell bonds, the city of Philadelphia threw a parade that drew 200,000 people, despite warnings that the Spanish flu was spreading among the soldiers who were about to head off to World War I and would be in the parade.​

​

That didn’t turn out to be a good idea. Days later, hospitals in the area were filled with patients suffering or dying from the Spanish flu. Weeks later, more than 4,500 people in the Philadelphia area died from the virus.​

​

On the other side of the ledger, things were way different in St. Louis.​

​

After detecting its first cases of the Spanish flu in the community, St. Louis closed buildings such as schools, churches, courtrooms and libraries.​

​

Gatherings of more than 20 people were banned, work shifts were staggered and ridership on streetcars was limited.​

​

The social distancing precautions had a positive effect, as excess deaths in St. Louis were 347 per 100,000 people -- less than half the rate of Philadelphia.​

​

The "Spanish" flu was nothing to mess around with, since ultimately, an estimated 20 to 50 million people died after contracting the virus.​

​

With all the social distance efforts going on around the country, St. Louis -- even more than 100 years ago -- is proof why it can be so vital in saving lives. << --- 2 Cities Handled This Health Crisis Differently -- the Results Couldn't Have Been More Opposite​

Those are just the comparative affects of two cities. After which, they can fall back on the support of the surrounding nation.

I am not sure that it can be extended to the whole nation at large, without calculating for collateral affects, since the nation's support structures will be destroyed if this goes on much longer.

Could the Covid19 Response be More Deadly than the Virus? The economic, social and public health consequences of these measures could claim millions of victims

Could the Covid19 Response be More Deadly than the Virus?

Kevin Ryan The initial, alarming estimates of deaths from the virus COVID-19 were that as many as 2.2 million people would die in the United States. This number is comparable to the annual US death…

off-guardian.org

"The initial, alarming estimates of deaths from the virus COVID-19 were that as many as 2.2 million people would die in the United States. This number is comparable to the annual US death rate of around 3 million. Fortunately, correction of some simple errors in overestimation has begun to dramatically reduce the virus mortality claims.

The most recent estimate from “the leading US authority on the COVID-19 pandemic” suggests that the US may see between 100,000 and 200,000 deaths from COVID-19, with the final tally likely to be somewhere in the middle.” This means that we are expecting around 150,000 US deaths caused by the virus, if the latest estimates hold up.

How does that compare to the effects of the measures taken in response? By all accounts, the impact of the response will be great, far-reaching, and long-lasting.

To better assess the difference we might ask, how many people will die as a result of the response to COVID-19? Although a comprehensive analysis is needed from those experienced with modeling mortality rates, we can begin to estimate by examining existing research and comparative statistics. Let’s start by looking at three critical areas of impact: suicide and drug abuse, lack of medical treatment or coverage, and poverty and food access.. . . . "

<snip>

". . . Conclusion

The total deaths attributable to the COVID-19 response, from just this limited examination, are estimated to be:

• Suicides 59,000
• Drug abuse 87,000
• Lack of medical coverage or treatment 1,350,000
• Poverty and food access 780,000

These estimates, totaling more than two million deaths above the estimated 150,000 expected from the virus itself, do not include other predictable issues with the COVID-19 response. An example is the lack of medical services as stated above. Other examples include the EPA’s suspension of environmental regulations. It has been estimated that the EPA’s Clean Air Act alone has saved 230,000 lives each year. (etc.. . . )"

 

[Pogo]

I can't stand your strawmen up for you. That's what makes them strawmen.

What the fuck kind of copout response is that shit?

You're wrong and you can't admit it.

This shit is NOT liberalism and you fucking know it.

What you named isn't Liberalism. NOR DID I SAY IT WAS. Those were YOUR strawmen, I identified them as such, and now you want to sell them to me??

 

[MisterBeale]

So tired of panicky germaphobe hypochondriacs making the rules for normal people. There are people out here who are not afraid of their own shadows

I was joking with my buddy on the phone the other day, that Howard Hughes is probably jealously looking down (or up) at Gates thinking. . . . "damn, why didn't I think of that."

 

[MisterBeale]

If only we could see the Covid-19 virus as well as we can see second hand smoke........ then we could just ban the people who expose others to it.

If only we could get Dr. Fauci to tell the truth and drive it home on National TEE VEE. . .

Is anyone getting tired of this rightwing whine fest about "shut downs" and "constitutional rights"?

The shut down sucks, but the whining (and I'm not talking about job loss, a valid complaint) but the whining about not being able to get together in large groups is pretty shallow.

Quarantine is nothing new. Restricting large gatherings is during an epidemic is nothing new. But this level of whining is.

Anyone over 70 probably remembers quarantine during the polio outbreaks...

“But absolutely, when coronavirus hit, the first thing I thought of were those summers in the 1940s, how you couldn’t go to pools, you couldn’t go to the movies, you just stayed home,” says Gray, who as a child lived in Kansas City. “When I was in high school, a wonderful young man got polio. It was just so terrifying for us.”

All I can think of is that these nutballs are honestly UNAWARE that there's an infectious pandemic going on, OR that they are aware but it's more important to "get muh name on the innerwebs". What a gaggle of sociopaths.

This isn't our first, it certainly won't be our last. We should be suspicious as to why it is being treated as such.

". . . .This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.2. . . "

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?fbclid=IwAR2dEJYOp3V-jFePwYLT7oJZZDSTzfFkT6blOkGEtMGHYHo6aWFrh3dIqoc

Nothing should be used to abrogate the civil rights and civil liberties of the people.

uh HUH. In other words given the comparison articulated above you would echo W.C. Fields' "On the whole I'd rather be in Philadelphia". Which was btw a proposed epitaph. You'd be free to watch a parade and then equally free to have your body picked up by a morgue wagon a few days later.

That's fine, if that's what you want. What isn't fine is infecting innocent people around you. Perhaps there's an obscure "right to infect" clause in the Constitution that has eluded us. And I'm afraid that brings us right back to what "assembling peaceably" means. There's just no way around it.

Um. . . yeah, there is.

You, like the government, and every other petty tyrant, are making assumptions.

 

[Crixus]

Govt flexes muscle to show citizens / Constitution / Founding Fathers who's 'Boss'....



One Arrested as Raleigh, NC Police Suspend First Amendment; Declare Coronavirus Lockdown Protest “Non-Essential Activity”

'Raleigh, North Carolina police suspended the First Amendment Tuesday, dispersing a protest against the COVID-19 Chinese coronavirus lockdown and arresting one protester for failing to disperse. The police issued a statement declaring “Protesting is a non-essential activity” that was in violation of an executive order by Governor Roy Cooper (D) prohibiting mass gatherings.'

What is considered 'non-essential activity' by the government is a right protected by the Constitution from a government who seeks to quell all peaceful assemblies...

Add this one to the list of Constitutional Rights - like exercise of religious freedom - being trampled in the name of 'preventing the spread of CPVID-19'.

One Arrested as Raleigh, NC Police Suspend First Amendment; Declare Coronavirus Lockdown Protest "Non-Essential Activity"

Raleigh, North Carolina police suspended the First Amendment Tuesday, dispersing a protest against the COVID-19 Chinese coronavirus lockdown and arresting one protester for failing to disperse. The police issued a statement declaring “Protesting is a non-essential activity” that was in violation...

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Where the hell is the ACLU ?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I can't stand your strawmen up for you. That's what makes them strawmen.

What the fuck kind of copout response is that shit?

You're wrong and you can't admit it.

This shit is NOT liberalism and you fucking know it.

What you named isn't Liberalism. NOR DID I SAY IT WAS. Those were YOUR strawmen, I identified them as such, and now you want to sell them to me??

It's amazing how you completely forget the shit you type.

Post#45: "Raleigh is a liberal democrat dominated city"

Post #47, I stated: "Funny how the word has come to mean anything BUT liberal."

Post #55:
More Franklin weasel-quoting out of its context. Franklin btw survived multiple smallpox epidemics and regretted for the rest of his life failing to have his son who died from it at the age of four, inoculated. Here's what he was talking about in this cherrypicked quote --- the State's right to tax an absentee landlord:

>> WITTES: He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

SIEGEL: So far from being a pro-privacy quotation, if anything, it's a pro-taxation and pro-defense spending quotation.

WITTES: It is a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security. It means, in context, not quite the opposite of what it's almost always quoted as saying but much closer to the opposite than to the thing that people think it means. << -- Franklin's "Liberty Safety" quote lost its context in the 21st century

WHICH IS FUCKING WRONG!!! Benjamin Franklin on Liberty and Safety

Post #59, you stated: ""Funny" because the Cult of Ignance (sic) can't be bothered to learn what it actually means."

Explain your way out of your own stupidity.

 

[WEATHER53]

Can’t arrest Mike Brown but can arrest constitutional participants
Lib 101

 

[WEATHER53]

I used to think the USA was about freedom and opportunity
I did not know it was really all about “safeguarding health” while removing freedom and destroying opportunity

 

[Dragonlady]

Govt flexes muscle to show citizens / Constitution / Founding Fathers who's 'Boss'....



One Arrested as Raleigh, NC Police Suspend First Amendment; Declare Coronavirus Lockdown Protest “Non-Essential Activity”

'Raleigh, North Carolina police suspended the First Amendment Tuesday, dispersing a protest against the COVID-19 Chinese coronavirus lockdown and arresting one protester for failing to disperse. The police issued a statement declaring “Protesting is a non-essential activity” that was in violation of an executive order by Governor Roy Cooper (D) prohibiting mass gatherings.'

What is considered 'non-essential activity' by the government is a right protected by the Constitution from a government who seeks to quell all peaceful assemblies...

Add this one to the list of Constitutional Rights - like exercise of religious freedom - being trampled in the name of 'preventing the spread of CPVID-19'.

One Arrested as Raleigh, NC Police Suspend First Amendment; Declare Coronavirus Lockdown Protest "Non-Essential Activity"

Raleigh, North Carolina police suspended the First Amendment Tuesday, dispersing a protest against the COVID-19 Chinese coronavirus lockdown and arresting one protester for failing to disperse. The police issued a statement declaring “Protesting is a non-essential activity” that was in violation...

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Here's what y'all infectophiles keep missing.

-- What's the adverb before the word "assemble"? "Peacefully".

Therefore an assembly of, say, a lynch mob would be an assembly but not a "peaceful" one, agreed?

Whelp, same for a congregation that huddles together despite a known contagious infection going around. One uses a rope, the other uses a virus.

Think about it.

I thought about it...and it's stupid.

I did not ignore the word 'peacefully' at all.

You are trying to compare a racist lynch mob with Americans being forced to stay at home, denied their rights to exercise their freedom of religion, and denied their right to peacefully assemble.

There is no danger to their freedom of religion. They can live stream any service they choose without endangering their lives.

To portray a public health crisis as an attack on personal freedom, shows that the religious right has collectively, lost their minds. Personally, if these fools want to get together and spread the virus amongst themselves, by all means. The fewer Trump voters the better.

But sadly, these deranged idiots will not only infect themselves, but their innocent offspring, and their neighbours, shopkeepers, and countless thousands of others. So as much as watching Trumps base disappear by virtue of their own hubris, is enjoyable, if each of these people takes down 3 innocent bystanders, it's never going to end.

Personally, I have found this to be a far more Christian, religious, and spiritual Easter than the usual consumer chocolate and bunny filled extravaganza that retail America has turn the holiday into. Rabbits, eggs, candy, are the symbols of the spring pagan fertility festivals our European ancestors retained when they converted to Christianity. Just as the Pagan Christmas tree has been adopted as the Christian symbol of his birth, rabbits carrying baskets of candy have become the symbol of his death.

I'm also noticing that TV ads don't scream buy, buy, buy, during this pandemic. Advertizers are now urging us to stay home and contain the virus. The model of consumer frenzie that the American economy encourages has left your workers sick and dying, and without health care. You need to stop, take a break and look and what you're doing to your fellow citizens, and just who is being forced back to work here.

Your economy only works if it is continually expanding, and growing larger. And the profits from all of that growth are only going to 20% of your population. The lower 40% is being asked to do more and more with less and less, and told to like it. No overtime, no health care, no child care, no vacations, no maternity leave. 9 increases to the minimum wage in 40 years.

That lower 40% are the people who are getting sick and dying. Until you fix that. Until those people have a living wage, and health care and sick leave. Your country will never fully re-open.

1. Cheap, quick and accurate testing for everyone;

2. PPE's for all workers who need them

3. Universal Health Care and sick leave

And Americans will never be allowed into other countries. You'll just be this outlaw country where the virus rages around and everyone is getting it. Trump wanted America alone. Well, you got it!!!

Are you tired of all of this winning yet?

 

[Mac-7]

Raleigh is a liberal democrat dominated city

of course the libs in charge are going to push their weight around

Funny how the word has come to mean anything BUT liberal.

"Funny" because the Cult of Ignance can't be bothered to learn what it actually means.

Okay, genius. Tell me what "liberal" means?

Thought you'd never ask.

Liberalism is the belief that power derives from the consent of the governed and NOT from a hierarchy of clergy and aristocracy --- or in other words authoritarianism. The Liberal government acts like a referee, it stands out of the way unless that body of the governed is ITSELF threatened. Otherwise it's the political philosophy version of the Wiccan Rede: "An' ye harm none, do what ye will".

I guess Wiccans can define themselves however they please

sort of like boys calling themselves girls

but the rest of us do not have to agree

Whether you frickin' "agree" is irrelevant to anything. The poster asked me for a definition and I gave him one.

Its not the one that most people accept