Could Trump Actually Deport 11 Million People?

[daws101]

correll's manic posting style is indicative of mental instability .

 

[georgephillip]

You cannot make sense with people who are anti-immigrants. They think we can survive with just white American workers.

These numbers are not encouraging for those folks:

"If we could shrink the earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people, with all the existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look something like the following.

"There would be:

• 57 Asians
• 21 Europeans
• 14 from the Western Hemisphere, both north and south
• 8 Africans
  
  52 would be female
• 48 would be male
  
  70 would be non-white
• 30 would be white"

Earth'' Population as a Village of 100 People

And this means what exactly?

If you believe such a thing as the white race exists, it's numbers appear to be in decline.

 

[Correll]

Because really diverse societies with a lot of mixing have no race or ethnic issues?

I didn't choose the best caption the first time I posted this image:

One Race.
The human race.

America, as it becomes more diverse is being torn apart, and all indicators are that it will get worse and worse for as long as the eye can see.

You are living in a fantasy land, and making policy accordingly that is causing great harm to our nation.

 

[Correll]

correll's manic posting style is indicative of mental instability .

"Manic"?

I do other stuff, I come back and try reply to everyone who has responded to me, quickly because I have other stuff to do.

I find it telling though that you are looking for reasons (excuses?) to attack me personally so as to marginalize myself and my points.

That's a common tactic with leftists when they find someone who will call them on their bullshit and who is not silenced by the Race Card or whatever dishonest tactics the lefties in question use.

Lord knows that you lefties do ALL you can to avoid discussing the issues seriously and honestly.

 

[Correll]

You cannot make sense with people who are anti-immigrants. They think we can survive with just white American workers.

These numbers are not encouraging for those folks:

"If we could shrink the earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people, with all the existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look something like the following.

"There would be:

• 57 Asians
• 21 Europeans
• 14 from the Western Hemisphere, both north and south
• 8 Africans
  
  52 would be female
• 48 would be male
  
  70 would be non-white
• 30 would be white"

Earth'' Population as a Village of 100 People

And this means what exactly?

If you believe such a thing as the white race exists, it's numbers appear to be in decline.

That's true.

But so what?

This is a link to the wiki article on the nation of Nauru.

Nauru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The majority ethnic group there is Nauruan.

There are 6,000 of them.


They are a tiny, tiny ethnic group.


SO what? Does that mean they aren't allowed to have their own culture? And govern themselves as they see fit? And pursue their interests as best they can?

Should they be ashamed because they are a small group?


IMO, no.

I wish them well. I hope their little island is happy and prosperous and that their culture has a golden age that lasts a thousand years, and I don't see why that can't be, even if there are just 6,000 of them.

 

[Correll]

The fact is that there are plenty of unskilled workers in America who are losing out on jobs to illegals because employers can skirt the laws by employing them. People gave good examples of this in this thread . . . those who mentioned hiring illegals to do their landscaping or housecleaning because it is "cheaper." Ta da!!! There's the proof in front of your eyes.

How do you justify denying labor the same right to migration as capital currently possesses?

I agree there are many urban jobs lost to domestic labor because immigrants work cheaper and harder. Farm labor is an entirely separate beast, imho.

Neither capital or labor has any "right" to cross borders.

Such a "right" would violate the Right of Self Determination.

 

[Correll]

As for illegals on farms, that's where you're OK with illegals taking the jobs of Americans and driving wages so low that legals don't want to do it since you offer them more money to do nothing. Nice job. I thought you were against exporting jobs

I don't believe enough US citizens will work in farm labor because of the long hours in often brutal heat or cold. I also doubt enough US citizens will move their families multiple times every year in order to follow the crops. In general, I believe if capital is free to cross national borders in pursuit of greater profits, then labor should enjoy the same rights.

You can believe whatever you want, but there is no evidence of that. The only evidence is that they won't do it for the wages illegals will. There is no evidence you can't hire people to do any job as long as the market sets wages. You keep them artificially low by importing illegals to do it costing Americans jobs.

Wages are depressed by imported farm labor, even so, the work itself will likely go undone if left to the domestic market without a drastic rise in wage rate:

"In 1960, half of all the native-born men in the U.S. labor force were high school dropouts eager to take unskilled outdoor jobs in agriculture and construction.

"Today, fewer than 10 percent of the native-born men in the work force lack high school diplomas.

"But the economy still generates plenty of unskilled jobs, and most unskilled immigrants don't displace American workers. They fill niches — not just farmhand, but also chambermaid, busboy and others — that would otherwise go empty. And they support more skilled, more desirable jobs — foremen, accountants, waiters, chefs and more — at the businesses where they work and others in the surrounding community.

"Just raise the wage, you say, and an American would take the job?

"Not necessarily, and very unlikely if it's a farm job.

"Farmers have been trying that — for decades.

"They raise the wage.

"They recruit in inner cities.

"They offer housing and transport and countless other benefits.

"Still, no one shows — or stays on the job, which is outdoors and grueling and must get done, no matter how hot or cold or otherwise unpleasant the weather. And of course, at some point, there are limits to how high a wage a grower or dairy farmer can pay before he is forced out of business by a farmer who produces the same commodity in another country, where the labor actually is cheap."
Without Immigrant Labor, the Economy Would Crumble - NYTimes.com
IMHO, based on the five or six years I spent working in California citrus orchards, domestic labor will never put up with all the negatives of farm labor unless the government subsidizes their pay in some way.

We can't pick fruit in this country without illegals to do it without minimum wages, taxes, unemployment, FICA, medical or other benefits. Got it. What a load of crap

"Seth Holmes, a doctor and anthropologist at the University of California, Berkeley, spent more than a year and half with migrant farmworkers from Mexico — many of them are from the same isolated town in the southern state of Oaxaca — for his book 'Fresh Fruit, Broken Bodies: Migrant Farmworkers in the United States.'”
What's it like to be a migrant farmworker? One anthropologist lived and worked alongside them.
I doubt there's ever been a time in the last century when US farmers did not rely on migrant labor to harvest their crops.

Maybe you know better?

So a decreased labor pool led to increased wages?

MMMM, YOU DON'T SAY?!

 

[bripat9643]

Attempting to deport 11M people is stupid and unnecessary.

Enforce laws, cut off their access to welfare and deny public service (such as schools) to them and they will self deport.

Most of that is illegal and inhumane .
On second thought maybe you should live for a year under those conditions .

I don't have to live like that, I'm a native born US citizen.

That's the point. They are NOT US citizens and shouldn't just be able to come over here illegally and enjoy the benefits of such.

But then again, you are a dumb fuck, so no one expects you to understand that .

Hey slapdick my point is if you did live like that .
Your citizenship is no guarantee of benefits.
Should is irrelevant .
Attempt to stay in reality.

Actually dumb shit, my citizenship IS a guarantee of rights. That's the entire fucking point of the 13th,14th,and 15th fucking Amendments.

Come on, you morons make this too fucking easy.

Actually slapdick it's a promise and depending on the situation it's not always kept.
There's that pesky reality again.

Actually, moron, it's not a "promise." The Constitution is the law of the land. It's not some Dim political platform.

 

[bripat9643]

The fact is that there are plenty of unskilled workers in America who are losing out on jobs to illegals because employers can skirt the laws by employing them. People gave good examples of this in this thread . . . those who mentioned hiring illegals to do their landscaping or housecleaning because it is "cheaper." Ta da!!! There's the proof in front of your eyes.

How do you justify denying labor the same right to migration as capital currently possesses?

I agree there are many urban jobs lost to domestic labor because immigrants work cheaper and harder. Farm labor is an entirely separate beast, imho.

Neither capital or labor has any "right" to cross borders.

Such a "right" would violate the Right of Self Determination.

I disagree. If you want to move your money overseas, the government has no authority to stop you. You have the right to dispose of your property as you see fit.

 

[charwin95]

You cannot make sense with people who are anti-immigrants. They think we can survive with just white American workers.

Your post has no connection with reality, or anything that anyone not complete fringe has said, and certainly NOTHING to do with Trumps proposed policies.

Soooooo, That's really all there is to be said about that.

Well let's see...... You have your friends and your students here that clearly states that they hate immigrants and illegals that you supported and embrace. Where do you think you stand?
Your friends keep insisting we have enough unskilled white American workers to fill in....... From a real live experience that is not true Correll.,

 

[charwin95]

Did you read it or you just look at the picture?

I dare you to cut and paste from the article the part where it describes what America would be like without immigrants.


It is not there. Just like I said.

Empty partisan blather.

Designed to fool only those who are willing dupes.

What an excuse......... Here's the cut and paste. I'm not fooling you......... Because you are already fooooolish as it is.


Like most of the founding generation, Cr?vecoeur believed the sheer size of the new nation meant for a prosperous future. But he was also celebrating an attitude of openness, a willingness to embrace new citizens from around the world into what he called the "melting pot" of American society.
The embrace of openness has survived, in spite of occasional outbreaks of anti-immigrant sentiment, for the intervening two and a half centuries. The United States remains an immigrant nation, in spirit as well as in fact. (A fact for which, as an immigrant from the Old Country, I am grateful). My wife is American, and my high schoolers have had U.S. passports since being born in London. Right now I’m applying for U.S. citizenship. I want America to be my home, not just my residence. My story is of course very different to most immigrants – but the point is, all of our stories are different. What unites us is our desire to be American.

But this spirit may be waning. Thanks only in part to Donald Trump, immigration is near the top of the political agenda - and not in a good way.

Trump has brilliantly exploited the imagery of The Wall to tap into the frustrations of white middle America. But America needs immigration. At the most banal level, this is a question of math. We need more young workers to fund the old age of the Baby Boomers. Overall, immigrants are good for the economy, as a recent summary of research from Brookings' Hamilton Project shows.

Of course, while immigration might be good for the economy as a whole, that does not mean it is good for everyone. Competition for wages and jobs will impact negatively on some existing residents, who may be more economically vulnerable in the first place. Policymakers keen to promote the benefits of immigration should also be attentive to its costs.

But the value of immigration cannot be reduced to an actuarial table or spreadsheet. Immigrants do not simply make America better off. They make America better. Immigrants provide a shot in the nation's arm.

Immigrants are now twice as likely to start a new business as native-born Americans. While rates of entrepreneurialism are declining among natives, they are rising among immigrants. Immigrant children typically show extraordinary upward mobility, in terms of income, occupation and education. Among children born in Los Angeles to poorly-educated Chinese immigrants, for example, an astonishing 70% omplete a four-year-college degree.
As the work of my Brookings colleague William Frey shows, immigrants are migrants within the U. S., too, moving on from traditional immigrant cities -- New York and Los Angeles -- to other towns and cities in search of a better future.

New Americans are true Americans. We need more of them. But Trump is tapping directly and dangerously into white fears of an America growing steadily browner. According to a 2011 Pew Research Center survey, more than four in ten white seniors say that a growing population of immigrants is a “change for the worse;” half of white boomers believe immigration is “a threat to traditional American customs and values.”

Immigration gets at a deep question of American identity in the 21st century. Just like people, societies age. They might also settle down, lose some dynamism. They might trade a little less openness for a little more security. In other words, they get a bit stuck in their ways. Immigrants generate dynamism and aspiration, but they are also unsettling and challenging.

Where this debate ends will therefore tell us a great deal about the trajectory of the nation. An America that closes its doors will be an America that has chosen to settle down rather than grow, allowing security to eclipse dynamism.

Disruption is not costless. But America has always weighed the benefits of dynamism and diversity more heavily. Immigration is an important way in which America hits the refresh button and renews herself. Without immigration, the nation would not only be worse off, but would cease, in some elemental sense, to be America at all.

So the article title claims to talk about what America would be like without immigrants.

Nothing in there tells that.

There are a lot unsupported assertions, such as "The United States remains an immigrant nation, in spirit as well as in fact."

or "New Americans are true Americans".


But there are no descriptions of what this immigrant-less America would look like.

Would there be a smaller population? Would we have never taken California from Mexico, or not bought Alaska from Russia?

Would Fish and CHips be our national dish?



That you could read an article claiming to tell what America would look like without immigrants, and not notice that the article tells NOTHING about what America would look like without immigrants,

demonstrates that you accept what your Authority Figures ie the Media tells you WITHOUT QUESTION.

Blind partisanship.

Scared? Better adopt.

NOthing in your post addressed anything in my post.

My point stands, the article was nothing but partisan blather, and that you thought it was impressive does nothing but remove the last vestiges of your credibility.

Cry me river....... I've known you as a racist and your hatred against all minorities. What that tells you about your credibility?

 

[charwin95]

Glad for you to step in Bripat.......... Where's my link about 250 illegals?

 

[ChrisL]

Why don't ONE of you explain why you want to have illegal immigrants in this country, if not for the cheap slave labor?

You keep saying Americans don't work hard . . . that is untrue. Your personal experiences don't count. We are amongst the top when it comes to work hours. We don't get a "nappy time" like they do in other countries either. Lol.

 

[JakeStarkey]

georgephillip: I don't believe enough US citizens will work in farm labor because of the long hours in often brutal heat or cold.

Correll: Labor moving across borders against peoples wishes is a violation of their Right to Self Determination.

You are both right, and that problem in the first sentence conflicts with Correll's statement.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Did you read it or you just look at the picture?

I dare you to cut and paste from the article the part where it describes what America would be like without immigrants.


It is not there. Just like I said.

Empty partisan blather.

Designed to fool only those who are willing dupes.

What an excuse......... Here's the cut and paste. I'm not fooling you......... Because you are already fooooolish as it is.


Like most of the founding generation, Cr?vecoeur believed the sheer size of the new nation meant for a prosperous future. But he was also celebrating an attitude of openness, a willingness to embrace new citizens from around the world into what he called the "melting pot" of American society.
The embrace of openness has survived, in spite of occasional outbreaks of anti-immigrant sentiment, for the intervening two and a half centuries. The United States remains an immigrant nation, in spirit as well as in fact. (A fact for which, as an immigrant from the Old Country, I am grateful). My wife is American, and my high schoolers have had U.S. passports since being born in London. Right now I’m applying for U.S. citizenship. I want America to be my home, not just my residence. My story is of course very different to most immigrants – but the point is, all of our stories are different. What unites us is our desire to be American.

But this spirit may be waning. Thanks only in part to Donald Trump, immigration is near the top of the political agenda - and not in a good way.

Trump has brilliantly exploited the imagery of The Wall to tap into the frustrations of white middle America. But America needs immigration. At the most banal level, this is a question of math. We need more young workers to fund the old age of the Baby Boomers. Overall, immigrants are good for the economy, as a recent summary of research from Brookings' Hamilton Project shows.

Of course, while immigration might be good for the economy as a whole, that does not mean it is good for everyone. Competition for wages and jobs will impact negatively on some existing residents, who may be more economically vulnerable in the first place. Policymakers keen to promote the benefits of immigration should also be attentive to its costs.

But the value of immigration cannot be reduced to an actuarial table or spreadsheet. Immigrants do not simply make America better off. They make America better. Immigrants provide a shot in the nation's arm.

Immigrants are now twice as likely to start a new business as native-born Americans. While rates of entrepreneurialism are declining among natives, they are rising among immigrants. Immigrant children typically show extraordinary upward mobility, in terms of income, occupation and education. Among children born in Los Angeles to poorly-educated Chinese immigrants, for example, an astonishing 70% omplete a four-year-college degree.
As the work of my Brookings colleague William Frey shows, immigrants are migrants within the U. S., too, moving on from traditional immigrant cities -- New York and Los Angeles -- to other towns and cities in search of a better future.

New Americans are true Americans. We need more of them. But Trump is tapping directly and dangerously into white fears of an America growing steadily browner. According to a 2011 Pew Research Center survey, more than four in ten white seniors say that a growing population of immigrants is a “change for the worse;” half of white boomers believe immigration is “a threat to traditional American customs and values.”

Immigration gets at a deep question of American identity in the 21st century. Just like people, societies age. They might also settle down, lose some dynamism. They might trade a little less openness for a little more security. In other words, they get a bit stuck in their ways. Immigrants generate dynamism and aspiration, but they are also unsettling and challenging.

Where this debate ends will therefore tell us a great deal about the trajectory of the nation. An America that closes its doors will be an America that has chosen to settle down rather than grow, allowing security to eclipse dynamism.

Disruption is not costless. But America has always weighed the benefits of dynamism and diversity more heavily. Immigration is an important way in which America hits the refresh button and renews herself. Without immigration, the nation would not only be worse off, but would cease, in some elemental sense, to be America at all.

So the article title claims to talk about what America would be like without immigrants.

Nothing in there tells that.

There are a lot unsupported assertions, such as "The United States remains an immigrant nation, in spirit as well as in fact."

or "New Americans are true Americans".


But there are no descriptions of what this immigrant-less America would look like.

Would there be a smaller population? Would we have never taken California from Mexico, or not bought Alaska from Russia?

Would Fish and CHips be our national dish?



That you could read an article claiming to tell what America would look like without immigrants, and not notice that the article tells NOTHING about what America would look like without immigrants,

demonstrates that you accept what your Authority Figures ie the Media tells you WITHOUT QUESTION.

Blind partisanship.

Scared? Better adopt.

NOthing in your post addressed anything in my post.

My point stands, the article was nothing but partisan blather, and that you thought it was impressive does nothing but remove the last vestiges of your credibility.

Blind partisanship defines Correll's positions on race and immigration.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Remember that correll and bripat are here for grins and chuckles.

If the immigrants were forced to leave, the agricombines and food processing plants would have to increase their wages dramatically.

 

[Correll]

The fact is that there are plenty of unskilled workers in America who are losing out on jobs to illegals because employers can skirt the laws by employing them. People gave good examples of this in this thread . . . those who mentioned hiring illegals to do their landscaping or housecleaning because it is "cheaper." Ta da!!! There's the proof in front of your eyes.

How do you justify denying labor the same right to migration as capital currently possesses?

I agree there are many urban jobs lost to domestic labor because immigrants work cheaper and harder. Farm labor is an entirely separate beast, imho.

Neither capital or labor has any "right" to cross borders.

Such a "right" would violate the Right of Self Determination.

I disagree. If you want to move your money overseas, the government has no authority to stop you. You have the right to dispose of your property as you see fit.

I was thinking more of the people in the land where you want to invest.

Maybe the People of Buttfukastan don't trust Americans and don't want Americans doing ANYTHING IN THEIR country.

IMO, they have that right.

 

[ChrisL]

georgephillip: I don't believe enough US citizens will work in farm labor because of the long hours in often brutal heat or cold.

Correll: Labor moving across borders against peoples wishes is a violation of their Right to Self Determination.

You are both right, and that problem in the first sentence conflicts with Correll's statement.

US citizens already do this, considering the work force is majority US citizens.

 

[Correll]

You cannot make sense with people who are anti-immigrants. They think we can survive with just white American workers.

Your post has no connection with reality, or anything that anyone not complete fringe has said, and certainly NOTHING to do with Trumps proposed policies.

Soooooo, That's really all there is to be said about that.

Well let's see...... You have your friends and your students here that clearly states that they hate immigrants and illegals that you supported and embrace. Where do you think you stand?
Your friends keep insisting we have enough unskilled white American workers to fill in....... From a real live experience that is not true Correll.,

1. I have said nothing about hating immigrants, legal or otherwise. I don't recall anyone else saying that either. That you can't understand that a Conflict of Interest and a desire to pursue MY interests is not about "hate" is just you being unable/unwilling to understand people different than you.

. You are welcome to post an example of me stating that I "hate" immigrants. Hint: Do'nt waste a lot of time looking.

2. I've disagreed with your racist belief system that there are jobs that whites can't do.

3. I want American jobs to go to Americans.

 

[Ame®icano]

Why don't ONE of you explain why you want to have illegal immigrants in this country, if not for the cheap slave labor?

You keep saying Americans don't work hard . . . that is untrue. Your personal experiences don't count. We are amongst the top when it comes to work hours. We don't get a "nappy time" like they do in other countries either. Lol.

Don't bet on getting an answer. They always demand answers, but never provide any.