Covid isn't killing me. The governments reaction to it is.

[zaangalewa]

...

The common cold has about the same chance of killing you as covid is.

The only what I can say to such a totally absurde nonsense: Learn to use your ears, learn to use your eyes and overcome your egocentralism. Or what else could be an understandable reason why you say such an unbelievable nonsense? What - for heavens sake - is your intention?

I have, about 6% of the deaths are from just covid. Open your eyes the real death toll is a weak flu season.

You have hundreds of thousands of dead people because of the Sars-CoV-2 virus which causes a dangerous epedemy worldwide (=a pandemic). You have not many victims of an influenza, because the fight against Sars-CoV-2 fights also influenza-virusses and other diseases, which have to do with bacteriums and virusses. And influenca is on its own damned dangerous and anything else than a "common cold", which is also seldom this year because of the fight on Corona.

You say practically "Because the fight against Corona is partially successful, everyone is an idiot who fights this fight and everyone is a super-intelligent hero, who surrenders", what's not very plausible, isn't it? It makesnot any snens to guive up in caseof an attack by a virus. There's only one alternative: to win - the other alternative means to die or to let die.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I did say it and that exactly what they do.

Your admitting it in no way alters the reality that epidemiologists and public health professionals, reflecting up-to-date scientific acumen, are to be trusted over failed casino operators and faded reality-tv performers in such medical matters.

And when public health officials have opinions that differ with each other?

Protip: Don't "trust" any of them. TDS is not an excuse to be gullible

 

[LordBrownTrout]

There is no empirical evidence to support that claim.

It doesn't matter. The Branch Covidians care nothing for facts. What they proclaim is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, and anything else is HERESY!

That is awesome!! Branch covidians. Lol.

 

[schmidlap]

And when public health officials have opinions that differ with each other?

Within the discipline of science, accrued empirical data will produce a consensus as well as the ongoing certitude that that consensus will always be subject to revision and refinement based upon additional data.

Ideologues will cling to their dogma, and cherry-pick whatever discarded, disproven, and discredited remnants of the scientific process they imagine support their ideological agenda.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

And when public health officials have opinions that differ with each other?

Within the discipline of science, accrued empirical data will produce a consensus as well as the ongoing certitude that that consensus will always be subject to revision and refinement based upon additional data.

Ideologues will cling to their dogma, and cherry-pick whatever discarded, disproven, and discredited remnants of the scientific process they imagine support their ideological agenda.

You're like a broken record lol

 

[DukeU]

"Masks help" say some million doctors and nurses worldwide.

Some say they do and some say they don't.

 

[Seawytch]

So where are these statements you "have"? An expert in what field?

Respiratory protection, which you would know had you actually read and understood what you quoted. FOCUS! The statement being: a cloth mask is as effective at stopping viruses as a picket fence is in stopping mosquitoes.

I asked for the statements you have from this alleged expert. You did not provide them. And, no, cloth masks are not ineffective.

Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2

Effectiveness of Cloth Masks Against SARS-CoV-2

wwwnc.cdc.gov

 

[Jarlaxle]

What are you talking about?

He has no idea.

 

[Jarlaxle]

That kind of information would personally identify me. I have an MD. What do you have?

Translation: you have-exactly-zero expertise in respiratory protection. Therefore, nothing you say matters.

I have statements from someone who absolutely is an expert in the field (including but not limited to teaching it for more than ten years, and certified to testify in Federal courts), author Mike Williamson.

Ah, here I thought you knew something but instead it’s just an appeal to authority.

And you believe this dude because?

He actually knows what he is talking about.

 

[colfax_m]

That kind of information would personally identify me. I have an MD. What do you have?

Translation: you have-exactly-zero expertise in respiratory protection. Therefore, nothing you say matters.

I have statements from someone who absolutely is an expert in the field (including but not limited to teaching it for more than ten years, and certified to testify in Federal courts), author Mike Williamson.

Ah, here I thought you knew something but instead it’s just an appeal to authority.

And you believe this dude because?

He actually knows what he is talking about.

How do you know he knows what he’s talking about?

You don’t know what you’re talking about so you just believe whoever says what you want to hear.

 

[Jarlaxle]

How do you know he knows what he’s talking about?

You don’t know what you’re talking about so you just believe whoever says what you want to hear.

I forgot...you're not too bright, so I guess I have to lead you by the nose. For the slow kid: he knows what he is talking about because respiratory protection was his field of expertise for almost twenty years. He taught it for more than a decade, and has credentials to testify in Federal court as an expert witness about it.

 

[colfax_m]

How do you know he knows what he’s talking about?

You don’t know what you’re talking about so you just believe whoever says what you want to hear.

I forgot...you're not too bright, so I guess I have to lead you by the nose. For the slow kid: he knows what he is talking about because respiratory protection was his field of expertise for almost twenty years. He taught it for more than a decade, and has credentials to testify in Federal court as an expert witness about it.

Yes. I’m sure he’s great about knowing how to protect people from sawdust and industrial waste.

But since we aren’t talking about OSHA regulations and instead talking about infections diseases, I’ll stick with my training in virology, infectious diseases, immunology, and epidemiology.

This is the problem with appeals to authority. It’s a weak argument. You just pick the expert you like and ignore the experts you don’t.

 

[Rigby5]

...

The common cold has about the same chance of killing you as covid is.

The only what I can say to such a totally absurde nonsense: Learn to use your ears, learn to use your eyes and overcome your egocentralism. Or what else could be an understandable reason why you say such an unbelievable nonsense? What - for heavens sake - is your intention?

You are not referencing any facts.
For example, the 280,000 deaths out of a totally population over 330,000,000 is only 0.06%, so the death rate from covid-19 is TINY.

Second is that covid-19 should only have lasted a month or so, and the spike should then have wiped it out through herd immunity.
That would have resulted in fewer than 50,000 deaths, so then would have had a death toll no more than any seasonal flu.
The only thing that increased the death toll beyond that of any seasonal flu, was stretching out its duration by "flattening the curve".
Flattening the curve of any illness will prevent herd immunity and cause any illness to stay forever.

 

[Rigby5]

I know many are having a terrible time, some lost loved ones. I do my part and I dont wanna be killing others or loved ones...I'm enjoying and loving this as I've slowed down, enjoying my family and nature.

But it has bankrupt half the nation.
Few social services, like restaurants, gyms, hair care, tourism, etc., will have any businesses or homes after all this destruction.

 

[Rigby5]

Medical professionals with a wealth of experience in epidemiology have arrived at one conclusion based upon empirical data derived from extensive controlled studies.

One????? Really?

Europe's Top Health Officials Say Masks Aren't Helpful in ...


U.S. health officials say Americans shouldn’t wear face ...

Masks Don’t Work: A Review of Science Relevant to COVID-19 ...

"Masks help" say some million doctors and nurses worldwide.

Masks can reduce transmission, but only slightly.
When it only traps the larger 95% of particles, it then traps 0% of viruses, which are the smallest of particles. By trapping saliva droplets, that only slows it down, until the saliva dries up on the cloth.

And what those millions of doctors and nurses do NOT know or understand, is that herd immunity depends upon local burn out of potential hosts.
If you DO slow an infection rate, that conserves hosts, so than prevents herd immunity, which prevents any epidemic from ever ending.
Flattening the curve takes a normal seasonal epidemic that might last a month or 2 normally, and forces it to become perpetual. And then clearly the perpetual death total will be much higher after flattening the curve, than it normally would have been if over in a month or 2.

 

[Rigby5]

People die. Such is the thing we call life. ...

Why do you fight for this damned virus? Life is life - life is wonderful. Death is bullshit.

I guess the six people I know who have checked out after being totally ruined by the shutdown are "less dead" than the people Cuomo murdered with biological warfare in the nursing homes of New York?

What for heavens sake do you say here? Did you notice that hundreds of thousands died in the USA because of covid-19? This means millions of people lost a beloved family member. And why were this six people "ruined" - whatever this means concrete? Because of what exactly? Which help do they need? And it is a joke to create a picture like "economy is not possible because of a fight against a pandemic". Some people earn a lot now - Amazon for example wan an unbelievable amount of money worldwide because of Corona. Corona-19 is a natural catastrophe. It is normal that people who win, because of a natural catastrophe, help others, who lose, because of a natural catastrophe. Human beings are social beings. Not to help people, who need help, is not any solution for anything. And to fight for a deadly virus is an absolutelly wrong way.

Amazon is not going to help anyone.
And flattening the curve does not help end covid-19 in any way, and instead perpetuates it forever.
The only ways that can end any epidemic are totally quarantine, or herd immunity.
And since it is likely too late for total quarantine, then we should be working on herd immunity instead.

 

[Rigby5]

How do you know he knows what he’s talking about?

You don’t know what you’re talking about so you just believe whoever says what you want to hear.

I forgot...you're not too bright, so I guess I have to lead you by the nose. For the slow kid: he knows what he is talking about because respiratory protection was his field of expertise for almost twenty years. He taught it for more than a decade, and has credentials to testify in Federal court as an expert witness about it.

Yes. I’m sure he’s great about knowing how to protect people from sawdust and industrial waste.

But since we aren’t talking about OSHA regulations and instead talking about infections diseases, I’ll stick with my training in virology, infectious diseases, immunology, and epidemiology.

This is the problem with appeals to authority. It’s a weak argument. You just pick the expert you like and ignore the experts you don’t.

But EVERY actual virologist, immunologist, epidemiologist, etc., says that herd immunity is what ends all established epidemics.
There has NEVER been one ended by "flattening the curve", and "flattening the curve" clearly results in a much larger death toll because it makes the epidemic last essentially forever, and allows a much wider spread over time.

Look at any epidemic, like Polio, Ebola, Avian flu, etc.
They all ended through herd immunity, where they spike so fact, they use up the local hosts available too quickly, and then die off from a lack of local hosts.
Go look it up.
Flattening the curve never works.
It was only tried once, in 1918, and was a disaster, stretching out a minor seasonal flu for over 2 years, killing over 20 times what it should have normally.

 

[Rigby5]

These are all highly respected doctors and researchers in biochemistry and microbiology.

That is no substitute for being a multiple casino bankrupt and faded reality-tv performer when it comes to matters of medical science and public health.

I don't wear one nor will I start to wear one. There is proof beyond doubt when you look at the virus and contrast it with pore spaces in the fabric of masks. All the rest is just the liberal media, politics, agenda, and propaganda.

The virus isn't just floating around in a vapor cloud. It is in droplets. The masks stop the droplets. You aren't risking yourself by not wearing the mask, you are selfishly risking others.

Im not sick and I'm not putting anyone else at risk. If I were sick, I'd stay at home.

We have been dealing with this for a year. How is ignorance stll so prevalent?

https://www.uchealth.org/today/the-truth-about-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19/

There is no empirical evidence to support that claim.

It's scientific evidence. Proven beyond a doubt.

Quantifying Asymptomatic Infection and Transmission of COVID-19 in New York City using Observed Cases, Serology and Testing Capacity

The contributions of asymptomatic infections to herd immunity and community transmission are key to the resurgence and control of COVID-19, but are difficult to estimate using current models that ignore changes in testing capacity. Using a model that incorporates daily testing information fit to...

www.medrxiv.org

No, there is no asymptomatic spread of any virus.
You can't be producing enough virus spores to be infectious without being or soon becoming symptomatic.

There can be some spread by pre-symptomatic, but not by asymptomatic.
Asymptomatic essentially are immune and kill it off too quickly for it to reproduce sufficiently.

 

[zaangalewa]

"Masks help" say some million doctors and nurses worldwide.

Some say they do and some say they don't.

Everyone says "masks help" and some say nonsense in this context on totally other reasons than to be interested in real solutions. Even in case someone is convinced masks don't help a normal man would use masks to show the own solidarity with the victims of covid-19 and as a symbol to be ready to fight. Masks help first of all not to infect others and they help also not to be infected. But this protection is not absolute - like for example the protection of a safety belt is is not absolute. A strange crash or a very powerful crash are a problem too. Same with covid. It is also with a mask important to keep distance and to have short contacts. Fresh air is good. Hygiene in general is good. ... All this helps and is easily able to be done. So why not to do it just simple? Why to discuss? About what? Injustice against a virus?

 

[Rigby5]

"Masks help" say some million doctors and nurses worldwide.

Some say they do and some say they don't.

Everyone says "masks help" and some say nonsense in this context on totally other reasons than to be interested in real solutions. Even in case someone is convinced masks don't help a normal man would use masks to show the own solidarity with the victims of covid-19 and as a symbol to be ready to fight. Masks help first of all not to infect others and they help also not to be infected. But this protection is not absolute - like for example the protection of a safety belt is is not absolute. A strange crash or a very powerful crash are a problem too. Same with covid. It is also with a mask important to keep distance and to have short contacts. Fresh air is good. Hygiene in general is good. ... All this helps and is easily able to be done. So why not to do it just simple? Why to discuss? About what? Injustice against a virus?

I realize you are trying to be logical, but you are still wrong.
The reason is that the normal quick end of any epidemic is dependent upon rapid burn out of potential victims, thus implementing herd immunity.
Ebola is a good example, in that although it is very infectious and deadly, it always is quickly stopped by herd immunity.
That is because it is too greedy.
It infect local contacts so quickly, they don't get a chance to spread it very much.
And once all the easy local contact have been infected, there no longer are any local viable hosts left, so the virus has to die out.
So then "flattening the curve" prevents herd immunity by essentially conserving local hosts, and ensuring there is always one available to infect, in order to keep the virus alive, indefinitely.
So then the problem with "flattening the curve" is that is killed an infinitely greater number of victims by stretching out the duration of the epidemic infinitely.

This is not like seatbelts.
There is no accumulative harm done by wearing seatbelts.
There is accumulative harm done by flattening the curve.
You want and need the quickest spike possible, in order to quickly end any epidemic rapidly.