Creationists

[UltimateReality]

the toe is science.

You can't accept that because it conflicts with the bible and a 6000 year old earth.

the toe is pseudo science based on your materialist secular humanist religion. You spend all your time cutting and pasting from iheu websites and never stop long enough to actually do any critical thinking.

You cut and paste false quotes from your religious leaders like dawkins and lawrence krauss. If your good with "may haves" and "might haves", and nice little stories about how giraffe necks are longer because they could only eat high fruit, supporting your supposed fact, then by all means continue to support your myth. But don't pretend that the outrageous claims of the toe are backed by any real science. News flash for you: Darwin's tree of life has been dis-proven by modern genetics and the embryo drawings were fakes. However, since darwinism is religion for you, none of this should matter. Continue to go ahead and cling to your religion even no there is no proof.

false ......

True.

 

[Hollie]

I think you are a secret follower of Huran Yahan. How do you reconcile your faith in Islam with your evolutionary views?

You're uncomfortable with the truth. You should be. The creationist agenda is drenched in lies and deceit.

You won't address the above because you can't. To expect you to understand such terms as truth, integrity and honesty is contrary to the Christian creationist agenda

But not contrary to your Islamic faith?

You're babbling incoherently.

 

[UltimateReality]

toe is a science, based on the same concepts and laws that govern all other areas of scientific inquiry, such as chemistry, biology, physics, astronomy, etc... In fact, it is an inter-discplinary field, which makes it quite unique. That you think evolution receives special treatment or exists by suspending the laws of physics or logic (i can infer this when you claim evolution is based on pseudo-science), means that you only wish it to be so, because this claim is not based in fact.

The tree of life, as i have already said, has not become invalid because of horizontal gene transfer, which only happened during the earliest stages of unicellular life on earth, billions of years ago. Instead, there are simply a few "cobweb" additions to link the possible places where genes may have been horizontally transferred. By and large, the tree of life still stands as a valid pictorial model for evolutionary descent. So, nothing has changed. You are now being dishonest in claiming this, which means, you don't want to have an honest debate.


Maybe you've heard of this guy: Theodosius dobzhanzky was an evolutionary biologist and a russian orthodox christian, who is famous for saying,

"nothing in biology makes sense except in light of evolution."

nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"he criticizes creationists for implying that god is deceitful and asserts that this is blasphemous.

Dobzhansky then goes on to describe the diversity of life on earth, and that the diversity of species cannot be best explained by a creation myth because of the ecological interactions between them. He uses examples of evidence for evolution: The genetic sequence of cytochrome c to show evidence for common descent (citing the work of emanuel margoliash & walter m. Fitch); embryology; and his own work on fruit flies in hawaii. Dobzhansky concludes that scripture and science are two different things: "it is a blunder to mistake the holy scriptures for elementary textbooks of astronomy, geology, biology, and anthropology"."

-wikipedia.org

evolutionists can't even agree on a method to test fitness or even a common definition for it. If natural selection is based on an organism's fitness, how can we do experiments to determine if natural selection has occurred if we can't even test for it???

how can we do tests for god when there is no evidence at all?

Are you saying religion should be held to the same standard as science? MMMBah ha haha.

 

[UltimateReality]

That makes no sense. You obviously despise science and have made every effort to denigrate science. I certainly wouldn't expect a fundie zealot to be able to form rational opinions on science matters.

No, I despise pseudoscience which is what many theories you believe are based on.

And yet after repeated requests, you cannot identify what theories are based pseudoscience.

I'm sure you do not even know what that term means.

And after years of wasted time in school, you still can't read. This has been done so many times for you on here I lost track after 10. You are an IGNOREamus.

 

[UltimateReality]

You're uncomfortable with the truth. You should be. The creationist agenda is drenched in lies and deceit.

You won't address the above because you can't. To expect you to understand such terms as truth, integrity and honesty is contrary to the Christian creationist agenda

But not contrary to your Islamic faith?

You're babbling incoherently.

It is your faith in Haran Yahan and his Islamist Darwin narrative that is incoherent.

 

[Hollie]

more cutting and pasting from your fundie evo priest will provine's website.

so? Can you prove it false?

Prove what? You would be under the mistaken impression I was actually reading any of Holly's gargantuan cut and pastes. What's the point? She can't carry on a logical argument anyway. Just keeps repeating ICR and Huran Yahan over and over.

The ICR and Harun Yahya is where you and the other fundie quote-mine so much of your non-sensical creationist babble from. Are you embarassed that so much of your anti-science cutting and pasting comes from those sites and similar charlatan creation ministries?

 

[Hollie]

But not contrary to your Islamic faith?

You're babbling incoherently.

It is your faith in Haran Yahan and his Islamist Darwin narrative that is incoherent.

You're still babbling incoherently.

 

[UltimateReality]

so? Can you prove it false?

Prove what? You would be under the mistaken impression I was actually reading any of Holly's gargantuan cut and pastes. What's the point? She can't carry on a logical argument anyway. Just keeps repeating ICR and Huran Yahan over and over.

The ICR and Harun Yahya is where you and the other fundie quote-mine so much of your non-sensical creationist babble from. Are you embarassed that so much of your anti-science cutting and pasting comes from those sites and similar charlatan creation ministries?

Na uh. It's where you get all your faith and your sad devotion to an ancient religion. Haran is your priest, not mine. I'd never even heard his name until you started posting up your favorite teachings of his.

 

[Hollie]

Prove what? You would be under the mistaken impression I was actually reading any of Holly's gargantuan cut and pastes. What's the point? She can't carry on a logical argument anyway. Just keeps repeating ICR and Huran Yahan over and over.

The ICR and Harun Yahya is where you and the other fundie quote-mine so much of your non-sensical creationist babble from. Are you embarassed that so much of your anti-science cutting and pasting comes from those sites and similar charlatan creation ministries?

Na uh. It's where you get all your faith and your sad devotion to an ancient religion. Haran is your priest, not mine.

Why is so much of your cutting and pasting from Harun Yahya?

 

[UltimateReality]

You're babbling incoherently.

It is your faith in Haran Yahan and his Islamist Darwin narrative that is incoherent.

You're still babbling incoherently.

And you still don't have a metanarrative. You cling to the mad ravings of Maslow for your salvation.

 

[UltimateReality]

The ICR and Harun Yahya is where you and the other fundie quote-mine so much of your non-sensical creationist babble from. Are you embarassed that so much of your anti-science cutting and pasting comes from those sites and similar charlatan creation ministries?

Na uh. It's where you get all your faith and your sad devotion to an ancient religion. Haran is your priest, not mine.

Why is so much of your cutting and pasting from Harun Yahya?

You mean like all your cutting and pasting from your priest, Haran Youwhat?

 

[Hollie]

Na uh. It's where you get all your faith and your sad devotion to an ancient religion. Haran is your priest, not mine.

Why is so much of your cutting and pasting from Harun Yahya?

You mean like all your cutting and pasting from your priest, Haran Youwhat?

What cutting and pasting would that be?

 

[UltimateReality]

Or all your cut and pastes from the IHEU...

" About IHEU



Founded in Amsterdam in 1952, International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) is the sole world umbrella organisation embracing Humanist, atheist, rationalist, secularist, skeptic, laique, ethical cultural, freethought and similar organisations world-wide.

Our vision is a Humanist world; a world in which human rights are respected and everyone is able to live a life of dignity. The mission of IHEU is to build and represent the global Humanist movement that defends human rights and promotes Humanist values world-wide. IHEU sponsors the triennial World Humanist Congress.

Based in London, IHEU is an international NGO with Special Consultative Status with the UN (New York, Geneva, Vienna), General Consultative Status at UNICEF (New York) and the Council of Europe (Strasbourg), and maintains operational relations with UNESCO (Paris). IHEU has observer status at the African Commission on Human and People's Rights."

 

[Hollie]

It is your faith in Haran Yahan and his Islamist Darwin narrative that is incoherent.

You're still babbling incoherently.

And you still don't have a metanarrative. You cling to the mad ravings of Maslow for your salvation.

Have you been gobsmacked or just had too much to drink?

 

[Hollie]

Or all your cut and pastes from the IHEU...

" About IHEU



Founded in Amsterdam in 1952, International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) is the sole world umbrella organisation embracing Humanist, atheist, rationalist, secularist, skeptic, laique, ethical cultural, freethought and similar organisations world-wide.

Our vision is a Humanist world; a world in which human rights are respected and everyone is able to live a life of dignity. The mission of IHEU is to build and represent the global Humanist movement that defends human rights and promotes Humanist values world-wide. IHEU sponsors the triennial World Humanist Congress.

Based in London, IHEU is an international NGO with Special Consultative Status with the UN (New York, Geneva, Vienna), General Consultative Status at UNICEF (New York) and the Council of Europe (Strasbourg), and maintains operational relations with UNESCO (Paris). IHEU has observer status at the African Commission on Human and People's Rights."

Oh my gawd, they aren't divisive and don't promote ignorance and superstition like the fundie creationists.

 

[UltimateReality]

Or all your cut and pastes from the IHEU...

" About IHEU



Founded in Amsterdam in 1952, International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) is the sole world umbrella organisation embracing Humanist, atheist, rationalist, secularist, skeptic, laique, ethical cultural, freethought and similar organisations world-wide.

Our vision is a Humanist world; a world in which human rights are respected and everyone is able to live a life of dignity. The mission of IHEU is to build and represent the global Humanist movement that defends human rights and promotes Humanist values world-wide. IHEU sponsors the triennial World Humanist Congress.

Based in London, IHEU is an international NGO with Special Consultative Status with the UN (New York, Geneva, Vienna), General Consultative Status at UNICEF (New York) and the Council of Europe (Strasbourg), and maintains operational relations with UNESCO (Paris). IHEU has observer status at the African Commission on Human and People's Rights."

they aren't divisive and don't promote ignorance and superstition

REEEAAAALLY???

This is where Holly gets her maddening hate for Muslims...

"Here is one of those generalizations one loves to hate: we moderns, for all of our civility, are often the victims of latent primitivity owing to the vestigial trappings of a religious institution that we have talked ourselves into believing to be at one with our highest ideals and aspirations. Islam, however much developed out of a perfectly natural desire to escape a condition of cultural barbarity (Muhammad was quite sensitive to this apparently) nevertheless served in most ways as a glove to the hand of its culture(s). It was perfect for groups stressing individual honesty, honor and respectability—what we usually call these days “honor-based” societies.

Honor-based cultures, and most especially so the Mediterranean ones, are characterized today, as they have been for thousands of years, by a saying known to every Arab and doubtless to most Muslims: Brother against brother and both against family; family against family and both against community, and etc. The culture is one in which recrimination and vengeance are, if not the order of the day, at least a culturally disposed latency. Islam has done nothing to alter that reality. In fact, Islam has served if anything to positively enhance precisely that disposition."

http://www.iheu.org/node/2480

 

[Hollie]

What Scientists Do and Creationists Don’t

What Scientists Do and Creationists Don't - The Panda's Thumb

A favorite creationist mantra these days, and one you especially hear from young earthers, is that creationists and scientists both have the same facts, they just look at them differently. To laypeople that may sound reasonable. The handful of guys at Answers in Genesis look at the Grand Canyon and say it was formed by a flood about 4400 years ago when God got all pissed off at humans. The 24,000 members of the Geological Society of America (and virtually every member of the literally dozens of geological organizations listed at their web site (Geology Professional Societies and Organizations - GEOLOGY.COM) look at the Grand Canyon and say it was formed over millions of years by natural processes that continue today.

Same facts; different conclusions. Some of us laypeople often hear these two positions and see them as equally valid positions on either side of a debate. But some of us scratch the surface, and it doesn’t take a very deep scratch to see a significant difference. Scientists do science and creationists don’t.

 

[Hollie]

Or all your cut and pastes from the IHEU...

" About IHEU



Founded in Amsterdam in 1952, International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) is the sole world umbrella organisation embracing Humanist, atheist, rationalist, secularist, skeptic, laique, ethical cultural, freethought and similar organisations world-wide.

Our vision is a Humanist world; a world in which human rights are respected and everyone is able to live a life of dignity. The mission of IHEU is to build and represent the global Humanist movement that defends human rights and promotes Humanist values world-wide. IHEU sponsors the triennial World Humanist Congress.

Based in London, IHEU is an international NGO with Special Consultative Status with the UN (New York, Geneva, Vienna), General Consultative Status at UNICEF (New York) and the Council of Europe (Strasbourg), and maintains operational relations with UNESCO (Paris). IHEU has observer status at the African Commission on Human and People's Rights."

they aren't divisive and don't promote ignorance and superstition

This is where Holly gets her maddening hate for Muslims...

"Here is one of those generalizations one loves to hate: we moderns, for all of our civility, are often the victims of latent primitivity owing to the vestigial trappings of a religious institution that we have talked ourselves into believing to be at one with our highest ideals and aspirations. Islam, however much developed out of a perfectly natural desire to escape a condition of cultural barbarity (Muhammad was quite sensitive to this apparently) nevertheless served in most ways as a glove to the hand of its culture(s). It was perfect for groups stressing individual honesty, honor and respectability—what we usually call these days “honor-based” societies.

Honor-based cultures, and most especially so the Mediterranean ones, are characterized today, as they have been for thousands of years, by a saying known to every Arab and doubtless to most Muslims: Brother against brother and both against family; family against family and both against community, and etc. The culture is one in which recrimination and vengeance are, if not the order of the day, at least a culturally disposed latency. Islam has done nothing to alter that reality. In fact, Islam has served if anything to positively enhance precisely that disposition."

http://www.iheu.org/node/2480

Oh my, are you still cutting and pasting from Harun Yahya?

 

[Hollie]

The Big Difference Between Creationism and Intelligent Design

The Big Difference Between Creationism and Intelligent Design - The Panda's Thumb

Denyse O’Leary notes some of the differences (<Post-Darwinist>) between creationists and Intelligent Design proponents:

Then the creationists in turn help the ID theorists by making clear what creationism is and what it is not. Creationism is about the BIBLE, see? It’s not about intelligent design theories like Behe’s* Edge of Evolution or Dembski’s design inference.

It’s extremely uncommon for me to find myself in agreement with Denyse on anything (and it’s not a comfortable feeling), but in this case I do think she’s got a good point. Creationism is certainly explicitly based on the Bible, and Intelligent Design certainly is not. In fact, that’s probably the Achilles’ Heel of the entire Intelligent Design movement.

Say what you will about the Young-Earth creationists, about Ken Ham and Kent “Prisoner #06452-017” (http://www.creationtoday.org/questions-and-answers-seminar-part-7a/Hovind), they are steadfast in their belief in the literal truth of the Bible, and steadfast in their refusal to lie about that belief. They believe that they are right, and they are not willing to publicly deny their faith. In that, they stand in stark contrast to Intelligent Design.

Read more (at The Questionable Authority, where comments can be left): The Big Difference Between Creationism and Intelligent Design &#8211; The Questionable Authority

 

[Hollie]

Can we send them to Mars?

Can we send them to Mars? &#8211; Pharyngula

As we all know, now that the trivial and relatively uninteresting business of mere engineering has cleared a hurdle, Mars Curiosity can get to work on the important stuff: finding evidence of biology on Mars. This is where it’s also going to get peculiarly controversial, because some creationists are feeling a bit threatened: there is a subset of creationists (definitely not all of them!) who are convinced that there can be no other life elsewhere in the universe. There’s also a weird subset that believes there may be intelligent life elsewhere, but it must believe in the Christian god, and these alien worlds must have been visited by an incarnation of Jesus…but let’s not get that deep in the bizarre yet.

Because this is bizarre enough. Faye Flam got an angry letter from a creationist (Images from Mars, Letter from a Parallel Universe) who is upset at all the money wasted on Mars Curiosity, because it’s absurd to consider the idea that life may have arisen somewhere where a god didn’t put it.

Her answer is excellent, you should go read it. Although, sad to say, it’s not true that her correspondent is from some strange dimension…he’s pretty typically from our tiny corner of this galaxy.