Cruz: Abolish The IRS...

[CrusaderFrank]

Every citizen in the country should get behind this, I don't care if you're left, right, sideways or upside down.

We need to start CUTTING this over bloated Government down to size, they are becoming so big they now believe they are, OUR MASTERS.

and when they are done with the IRS, they can go after the EPA, NEA, etc etc or at least start putting a LEASH on them

So what is your solution for collecting taxes if you abolish the IRS?

How about a simple sales tax with no tax on food. That way you have your fast-food employee making $8/hr who can go to the grocery store and pay his taxes in proportion to his income and when Larry Ellison gets the itch for his next America's Cup yacht racer, he will pay more in taxes than the fast food worker can make in a lifetime at McDonald's.
Make sense?

Problem is Larry Ellison may get bored and stop buying yachts. There's only so many Masserati's and haircuts Larry Ellison can buy.

Let the states pay in proportion to their electoral college votes. CA gets 55 votes so it has to fund 10.2% of the federal government

 

[Jarhead]

A flat tax will have basic deductions for employee's and businesses.

Not necessarily. It is based on the system.
I have absolutely no issue with eliminating ALL write offs and implementing a flat tax.
But then again...I am retired....sooooooo.................

 

[g5000]

The Fair Tax takes into account the amount of money you have to spend on necessities. Rent/mortgage, food, utilities, clothing, etc.

If the Fair Tax was, say, 23 percent, and you have to spend $1500 a month on necessities, then you have an additional $345 in taxes piled on top of that. So that $345 is automatically rebated to you every month.

Your rebate would depend on the number of people in your household.

 

[Stephanie]

There should be no tax on income, the tax should be on consumption. A poor person would pay less and a rich person would pay more but it would take the power to punish or favor anyone out of the hands of the politicians, which is where most of the country's problems lie (with the politicians).

I can live with that. but then who will employ all them special people working in the guberments IRS.

 

[g5000]

A flat tax will have basic deductions for employee's and businesses.

Not necessarily. It is based on the system.
I have absolutely no issue with eliminating ALL write offs and implementing a flat tax.
But then again...I am retired....sooooooo.................

The one downside of the Fair Tax is that, as a retiree, you have already been taxed on the money you have saved up. Then, if you go out and spend that money after a Fair Tax is implemented, you get hit again by the Fair Tax.

There would have to be some kind of compensation for that.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Eliminate totally any individual income tax

 

[Judicial review]

A flat tax will have basic deductions for employee's and businesses.

Typicallu there is some minimum that gets exempted and everything above that is taxed.
Frankly almost any fix would be better than what we have now.

Agreed.

 

[g5000]

There should be no tax on income, the tax should be on consumption.

THIS!!!

This, this, this.

Exactly.

The more you tax something, the less of it you get. No tax on production, a tax on consumption.

 

[Skylar]

I did. My guess is you missed the post.....see post # 49.

Where you cite nothing from Cruz's proposals. So clearly the 'using Cruz's flat tax proposal' part of my post completely slipped by you.

See, you claim I'm wrong. But by your own admission, you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Try again. This time reading for comprehension.

See? You are wrong.

Then it will be remarkably easy for you to demonstrate I'm wrong with Cruz's proposal. Or admit that you can't. Or you can just keep pulling numbers out of your ass sideways as you did last time I asked.

So that being said, how do you know it will favor the rich?

Because every tax cut proposal offered by the GOP over the last generation reduced taxes on the rich. Including every flat tax proposal. With the GOP consistently advocating tax cuts for the wealthy. And enacting multiple cuts, every one of which disproportionately benefits the wealthy. But this time its different, huh?

The rich are behind flat taxes not because it will cost them more. But because it will cost them less.

If I pay 33% on my gross adjusted income....the taxes on my gross income is likely somewhere around 23%....but if the flat rate is 25% then I will be paying MORE with a flat tax....putting more burden on me and less on the poor and middle class.

Likely according to who? Your 'refutation' is just you pulling numbers from whatever troubled orifice you claim to favor. Backed by nothing but your capacity to type them. You're offering me a series of nested assumptions backed by neither hard numbers nor any particular historic precedent.

And then laughably trying to argue that Cruz is going to suggest a tax scheme that INCREASES taxes on the rich, the very group that Cruz and his fellow republicans insist needs tax relief. Factually, your claims are a hapless void. Historically, your claims have no precedent. Logically, they're laughable.

So what else have you got?

 

[The Rabbi]

There should be no tax on income, the tax should be on consumption.

THIS!!!

This, this, this.

Exactly.

The more you tax something, the less of it you get. No tax on production, a tax on consumption.

In theory it sounds good. IN practice "consumption" taxes end up getting the same carve outs and work arounds that income taxes get, with companies trying to get theoir products classed as non end user products to avoid the tax. Happened in Britain with the VAT.

 

[g5000]

Eliminate totally any individual income tax

From the summary of the Fair Tax bill which Ted Cruz co-sponsored:

Fair Tax Act of 2013 - Repeals the income tax, employment tax, and estate and gift tax. Redesignates the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 as the Internal Revenue Code of 2013.

Imposes a national sales tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services. Sets the sales tax rate at 23% in 2015, with adjustments to the rate in subsequent years. Allows exemptions from the tax for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes, and for state government functions.

I disagree with the last sentence.

 

[Jarhead]

“We need to pass fundamental tax reform making our tax code simpler, flatter, fairer,” he said Monday at Heritage Action’s 2015 conservative policy summit. ”And I’ll tell you, the single most important tax reform, we should abolish the IRS.”

Gee, a conservative arguing for a flat tax that favors the rich. How did know that was coming?

How does it favor the rich?

The reduce the tax burden on the rich and shift it to the poor and middle class. There's a reason why the Koch brothers and Forbes are advocating a flat tax.

And its not because it costs them more money.

you did not answer my question.
How does it favor the rich? How does it take the burden off of the rich?
Are you aware of what a flat tax is?

Here's your answer:

Flat Tax Will Benefit Only the Rich - US News

An opinion piece by Steve Wamhoff? Really?

 

[The Rabbi]

I did. My guess is you missed the post.....see post # 49.

Where you cite nothing from Cruz's proposals. So clearly the 'using Cruz's flat tax proposal' part of my post completely slipped by you.

See, you claim I'm wrong. But by your own admission, you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Try again. This time reading for comprehension.

See? You are wrong.

Then it will be remarkably easy for you to demonstrate I'm wrong with Cruz's proposal. Or admit that you can't. Or you can just keep pulling numbers out of your ass sideways as you did last time I asked.

So that being said, how do you know it will favor the rich?

Because every tax cut proposal offered by the GOP over the last generation reduced taxes on the rich. Including every flat tax proposal. With the GOP consistently advocating tax cuts for the wealthy. And enacting multiple cuts, every one of which disproportionately benefits the wealthy. But this time its different, huh?

The rich are behind flat taxes not because it will cost them more. But because it will cost them less.

If I pay 33% on my gross adjusted income....the taxes on my gross income is likely somewhere around 23%....but if the flat rate is 25% then I will be paying MORE with a flat tax....putting more burden on me and less on the poor and middle class.

Likely according to who? Your 'refutation' is just you pulling numbers from whatever troubled orifice you claim to favor. Backed by nothing but your capacity to type them. You're offering me a series of nested assumptions backed by neither hard numbers nor any particular historic precedent.

And then laughably trying to argue that Cruz is going to suggest a tax scheme that INCREASES taxes on the rich, the very group that Cruz and his fellow republicans insist needs tax relief. Factually, your claims are a hapless void. Historically, your claims have no precedent. Logically, they're laughable.

So what else have you got?

There is no "Cruz proposal" other than eliminating the IRS. There is no plan he proposed in detail. How did you miss that?
Any tax reform will prbably benefit high income earners because they pay over 100% of income taxes. Who else is going to benefit?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Eliminate totally any individual income tax

From the summary of the Fair Tax bill which Ted Cruz co-sponsored:

Fair Tax Act of 2013 - Repeals the income tax, employment tax, and estate and gift tax. Redesignates the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 as the Internal Revenue Code of 2013.

Imposes a national sales tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services. Sets the sales tax rate at 23% in 2015, with adjustments to the rate in subsequent years. Allows exemptions from the tax for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes, and for state government functions.

I disagree with the last sentence.

I disagree with the entire concept of making individuals fund the federal government, let the states do it. This way when someone proposes to pay for snail darter research in Iowa, 49 other states will say "NFW!"

we don't have that with individuals funding the operation

 

[S.J.]

There should be no tax on income, the tax should be on consumption. A poor person would pay less and a rich person would pay more but it would take the power to punish or favor anyone out of the hands of the politicians, which is where most of the country's problems lie (with the politicians).

I can live with that. but then who will employ all them special people working in the guberments IRS.

That's THEIR problem. Putting 100,000 IRS employees out of work would be a popular move.

 

[hortysir]

People tend to discount Cruz. They shouldn't. He is very powerful.

He's a nutjob, who can't get elected nationally, especially after they find out about the extreme racism of his father. He is Canadian toast.

Bullshit.
We elected Obama

 

[Siete]

Fair Tax, poorer people spend most of their income, richer people need to spend less of their income.

ex

I made1$ million this year. I'm good, I don't need to spend a dime.

I made 25$ K this year, I need to spend it all.

 

[The Rabbi]

Fair Tax, poorer people spend most of their income, richer people need to spend less of their income.

ex

I made1$ million this year. I'm good, I don't need to spend a dime.

I made 25$ K this year, I need to spend it all.

I never met a single person who went an entire year without spending any money. Unless he was in prison.

 

[Jarhead]

I did. My guess is you missed the post.....see post # 49.

Where you cite nothing from Cruz's proposals. So clearly the 'using Cruz's flat tax proposal' part of my post completely slipped by you.

See, you claim I'm wrong. But by your own admission, you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Try again. This time reading for comprehension.

See? You are wrong.

Then it will be remarkably easy for you to demonstrate I'm wrong with Cruz's proposal. Or admit that you can't. Or you can just keep pulling numbers out of your ass sideways as you did last time I asked.

So that being said, how do you know it will favor the rich?

Because every tax cut proposal offered by the GOP over the last generation reduced taxes on the rich. Including every flat tax proposal. With the GOP consistently advocating tax cuts for the wealthy. And enacting multiple cuts, every one of which disproportionately benefits the wealthy. But this time its different, huh?

The rich are behind flat taxes not because it will cost them more. But because it will cost them less.

If I pay 33% on my gross adjusted income....the taxes on my gross income is likely somewhere around 23%....but if the flat rate is 25% then I will be paying MORE with a flat tax....putting more burden on me and less on the poor and middle class.

Likely according to who? Your 'refutation' is just you pulling numbers from whatever troubled orifice you claim to favor. Backed by nothing but your capacity to type them. You're offering me a series of nested assumptions backed by neither hard numbers nor any particular historic precedent.

And then laughably trying to argue that Cruz is going to suggest a tax scheme that INCREASES taxes on the rich, the very group that Cruz and his fellow republicans insist needs tax relief. Factually, your claims are a hapless void. Historically, your claims have no precedent. Logically, they're laughable.

So what else have you got?

Skylar....the only thing Cruz proposed was to abolish the IRS and implement a flatter and fairer tax code....no specifics. So I don't know what the hell you are talking about.
I simply asked
How does it favor the rich?

And you said...

The reduce the tax burden on the rich and shift it to the poor and middle class. There's a reason why the Koch brothers and Forbes are advocating a flat tax.

And its not because it costs them more money.

And that is when I explained to you that you can not make that assumption without knowing what the flat tax RATE was.

As for your bullshit about "Cruz's tax plan was what you were referring to....

That is simply you not being able to admit it when you have erred....a childish trait I find in many on this board.

Got play with someone else. No interest in playing with children.

 

[S.J.]

Fair Tax, poorer people spend most of their income, richer people need to spend less of their income.

ex

I made1$ million this year. I'm good, I don't need to spend a dime.

I made 25$ K this year, I need to spend it all.

What a stupid comment.