Cruz: Abolish The IRS...

[rightwinger]

'With great power comes great responsibility'

CA has 10% of the electoral college, they should fund 10% of the federal government

I think they do

 

[The Rabbi]

There is no "Cruz proposal" other than eliminating the IRS. There is no plan he proposed in detail. How did you miss that?

There's a tad more to Cruz's proposal, which reading the OP rather than just the thread title would clue you into:

“We need to pass fundamental tax reform making our tax code simpler, flatter, fairer,” he said Monday at Heritage Action’s 2015 conservative policy summit. ”And I’ll tell you, the single most important tax reform, we should abolish the IRS.”

Post 1
Cruz Abolish The IRS... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Notice that 'flatter, simpler, fairer' part? If you want to watch it, its right here at around the 26 or 27 minute mark:

Senator Ted Cruz R-TX Remarks Conservative Video C-SPAN.org

Oh, and if you want details, here's the tax bill that Cruz co-sponsored on exactly this issue:

S.122 - 113th Congress 2013-2014 Fair Tax Act of 2013 Congress.gov Library of Congress

Any tax reform will prbably benefit high income earners because they pay over 100% of income taxes. Who else is going to benefit?

100% tax rates, huh? Who are these people?

Of course it is not "100% tax rates." You are too stupid to figure out what I actually wrote.
I've posted this many times and of course you ignore it.
CBO Top 40 Paid 106.2 of Income Taxes Bottom 40 Paid -9.1 Got Average of 18 950 in Transfers CNS News

 

[Stephanie]

Every citizen in the country should get behind this, I don't care if you're left, right, sideways or upside down.

We need to start CUTTING this over bloated Government down to size, they are becoming so big they now believe they are, OUR MASTERS.

and when they are done with the IRS, they can go after the EPA, NEA, etc etc or at least start putting a LEASH on them

So what is your solution for collecting taxes if you abolish the IRS?

How about a simple sales tax with no tax on food. That way you have your fast-food employee making $8/hr who can go to the grocery store and pay his taxes in proportion to his income and when Larry Ellison gets the itch for his next America's Cup yacht racer, he will pay more in taxes than the fast food worker can make in a lifetime at McDonald's.
Make sense?

Problem is Larry Ellison may get bored and stop buying yachts. There's only so many Masserati's and haircuts Larry Ellison can buy.

The Fair Tax Act is the ticket. No one pays taxes on what they make up to the poverty line, so no one is taxed on survival. 23% tax on all new goods and services. And yes, that includes food. Everyone receives a refund of 23% of whatever the poverty line is.

So we'd have to report *every* fucking purchase to the government throughout the year in order to get our refund?

holy smokes.

 

[Contumacious]

Do you think that abolishing the Internal Robbery Squad is a good idea?

No, not even when I was being audited. They have a job to do, an important one.

Yes, yes, yes, of course.

We need someone to collect the funds we need to:

1- feed you
2- insure you
3- clothe you
4- quench your thirst
4- pay for your education up to and including Community College
5- Defend and support the Jewish State
6- invade every country on the face of mother earth


.

 

[WinterBorn]

Every citizen in the country should get behind this, I don't care if you're left, right, sideways or upside down.

We need to start CUTTING this over bloated Government down to size, they are becoming so big they now believe they are, OUR MASTERS.

and when they are done with the IRS, they can go after the EPA, NEA, etc etc or at least start putting a LEASH on them

So what is your solution for collecting taxes if you abolish the IRS?

How about a simple sales tax with no tax on food. That way you have your fast-food employee making $8/hr who can go to the grocery store and pay his taxes in proportion to his income and when Larry Ellison gets the itch for his next America's Cup yacht racer, he will pay more in taxes than the fast food worker can make in a lifetime at McDonald's.
Make sense?

Problem is Larry Ellison may get bored and stop buying yachts. There's only so many Masserati's and haircuts Larry Ellison can buy.

The Fair Tax Act is the ticket. No one pays taxes on what they make up to the poverty line, so no one is taxed on survival. 23% tax on all new goods and services. And yes, that includes food. Everyone receives a refund of 23% of whatever the poverty line is.

So we'd have to report *every* fucking purchase to the government throughout the year in order to get our refund?

No, the businesses would be responsible for that. And each adult would get a refund that amounts to 23% of whatever the poverty line is determined to be.

And there would be no more withholding of taxes from payrolls. If someone makes $10 an hour and works 40 hours, they get a $400 paycheck. No more loaning the federal gov't money and hoping for a refund.

 

[peach174]

This is the Hertage Foundations flat tax.
Which might be the one Ted Cruz would support
THE NEW FLAT TAX Encourages Growth and Job Creation
One Tax System with One Rate for All: In addition to the income tax, the federal government imposes payroll tax, death tax, and a slew of excises. The New Flat Tax replaces them all for individuals, families, and businesses with one tax system with one tax rate of roughly 28 percent.

• Two Tax Credits: The New Flat Tax retains the Earned Income Credit to preserve the level of income support for low-wage workers. And low- and middle-income families also receive a tax credit of $3,000 ($2,500 for singles) toward the purchase of health insurance.

• Three Deductions: The only remaining deductions are for higher education, gifts and charitable contributions, and an optional home mortgage interest deduction.

Straightforward Transition: Transition to the New Flat Tax would be straightforward: Current arrangements would be grandfathered, subject to current law, and the New Flat Tax would apply to new income and new decisions.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Do you think that abolishing the Internal Robbery Squad is a good idea?

No, not even when I was being audited. They have a job to do, an important one.

Yes, yes, yes, of course.

We need someone to collect the funds we need to:

1- feed you
2- insure you
3- clothe you
4- quench your thirst
4- pay for your education up to and including Community College
5- Defend and support the Jewish State
6- invade every country on the face of mother earth


.

Still be a child I see? Carry on...

 

[Jarhead]

There is no "Cruz proposal" other than eliminating the IRS. There is no plan he proposed in detail. How did you miss that?

There's a tad more to Cruz's proposal, which reading the OP rather than just the thread title would clue you into:

“We need to pass fundamental tax reform making our tax code simpler, flatter, fairer,” he said Monday at Heritage Action’s 2015 conservative policy summit. ”And I’ll tell you, the single most important tax reform, we should abolish the IRS.”

Post 1
Cruz Abolish The IRS... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Notice that 'flatter, simpler, fairer' part? If you want to watch it, its right here at around the 26 or 27 minute mark:

Senator Ted Cruz R-TX Remarks Conservative Video C-SPAN.org

Oh, and if you want details, here's the tax bill that Cruz co-sponsored on exactly this issue:

S.122 - 113th Congress 2013-2014 Fair Tax Act of 2013 Congress.gov Library of Congress

Any tax reform will prbably benefit high income earners because they pay over 100% of income taxes. Who else is going to benefit?

100% tax rates, huh? Who are these people?

Uh....do you not read my posts?
I said that all he did was suggest we abolish the IRS and institute a flatter and fairer tax code.
But he did not say what the flat tax should be...
So without knowing what the flat tax is, you can not simply assume it will favor the rich.

Now, as we heard during the 2012 campaign, the Obamas paid about 19% federal tax on their gross income (not adjusted....gross). We can assume that they were more conservative with their return than most seeing as they are in the public eye, so it is safe to assume that the "greedy rich" pay even less...say 15% on the gross income.

So if the flat tax is 25%....how in the hell does that favor the rich? They are paying 75% more in taxes over their 15%..

So as I said....you made a comment that is impossible to make without knowing the rate.

And the OP had nothing about Cruz's actual plan......it had a link to a fox news article.......so I don't know how I am supposed to know that you were referring to the details of his plan.

Grow up. Debate like an adult.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

'With great power comes great responsibility'

CA has 10% of the electoral college, they should fund 10% of the federal government

I think they do

not the state

 

[Skylar]

There is no "Cruz proposal" other than eliminating the IRS. There is no plan he proposed in detail. How did you miss that?

There's a tad more to Cruz's proposal, which reading the OP rather than just the thread title would clue you into:

“We need to pass fundamental tax reform making our tax code simpler, flatter, fairer,” he said Monday at Heritage Action’s 2015 conservative policy summit. ”And I’ll tell you, the single most important tax reform, we should abolish the IRS.”

Post 1
Cruz Abolish The IRS... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Notice that 'flatter, simpler, fairer' part? If you want to watch it, its right here at around the 26 or 27 minute mark:

Senator Ted Cruz R-TX Remarks Conservative Video C-SPAN.org

Oh, and if you want details, here's the tax bill that Cruz co-sponsored on exactly this issue:

S.122 - 113th Congress 2013-2014 Fair Tax Act of 2013 Congress.gov Library of Congress

Any tax reform will prbably benefit high income earners because they pay over 100% of income taxes. Who else is going to benefit?

100% tax rates, huh? Who are these people?

Of course it is not "100% tax rates." You are too stupid to figure out what I actually wrote.
I've posted this many times and of course you ignore it.
CBO Top 40 Paid 106.2 of Income Taxes Bottom 40 Paid -9.1 Got Average of 18 950 in Transfers CNS News

Can I take it then that you recognize Cruz's proposal included a flat tax? A flat tax he's cosponsored legislation in support of?

 

[g5000]

So we'd have to report *every* fucking purchase to the government throughout the year in order to get our refund?

Nope. The Fair Tax gives you a set rebate every month, dependent only on the number of people in your household. It has nothing to do with how much you spent.

And everyone gets the same amount. It is not dependent on income. So a poor person gets the same rebate as a rich person.

 

[g5000]

Can I take it then that you recognize Cruz's proposal included a flat tax? A flat tax he's cosponsored legislation in support of?

He co-sponsored a Fair Tax, not a flat tax.

Big difference.

 

[Jarhead]

This is the Hertage Foundations flat tax.
Which might be the one Ted Cruz would support
THE NEW FLAT TAX Encourages Growth and Job Creation
One Tax System with One Rate for All: In addition to the income tax, the federal government imposes payroll tax, death tax, and a slew of excises. The New Flat Tax replaces them all for individuals, families, and businesses with one tax system with one tax rate of roughly 28 percent.

• Two Tax Credits: The New Flat Tax retains the Earned Income Credit to preserve the level of income support for low-wage workers. And low- and middle-income families also receive a tax credit of $3,000 ($2,500 for singles) toward the purchase of health insurance.

• Three Deductions: The only remaining deductions are for higher education, gifts and charitable contributions, and an optional home mortgage interest deduction.

Straightforward Transition: Transition to the New Flat Tax would be straightforward: Current arrangements would be grandfathered, subject to current law, and the New Flat Tax would apply to new income and new decisions.

The only ones to suffer will be tax accountants.
I would support it in a heartbeat.

 

[WinterBorn]

So we'd have to report *every* fucking purchase to the government throughout the year in order to get our refund?

Nope. The Fair Tax gives you a set rebate every month, dependent only on the number of people in your household. It has nothing to do with how much you spent.

And everyone gets the same amount. It is not dependent on income. So a poor person gets the same rebate as a rich person.

And everyone pays their taxes. Drug dealers, prostitutes, illegals, cash workers all pay taxes.

 

[Jarhead]

There is no "Cruz proposal" other than eliminating the IRS. There is no plan he proposed in detail. How did you miss that?

There's a tad more to Cruz's proposal, which reading the OP rather than just the thread title would clue you into:

“We need to pass fundamental tax reform making our tax code simpler, flatter, fairer,” he said Monday at Heritage Action’s 2015 conservative policy summit. ”And I’ll tell you, the single most important tax reform, we should abolish the IRS.”

Post 1
Cruz Abolish The IRS... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Notice that 'flatter, simpler, fairer' part? If you want to watch it, its right here at around the 26 or 27 minute mark:

Senator Ted Cruz R-TX Remarks Conservative Video C-SPAN.org

Oh, and if you want details, here's the tax bill that Cruz co-sponsored on exactly this issue:

S.122 - 113th Congress 2013-2014 Fair Tax Act of 2013 Congress.gov Library of Congress

Any tax reform will prbably benefit high income earners because they pay over 100% of income taxes. Who else is going to benefit?

100% tax rates, huh? Who are these people?

Of course it is not "100% tax rates." You are too stupid to figure out what I actually wrote.
I've posted this many times and of course you ignore it.
CBO Top 40 Paid 106.2 of Income Taxes Bottom 40 Paid -9.1 Got Average of 18 950 in Transfers CNS News

Can I take it then that you recognize Cruz's proposal included a flat tax? A flat tax he's cosponsored legislation in support of?

Uh...it is a consumption tax....not a flat tax. Did you read it?

A national sales tax of 23%....that is a VAT tax....not a flat tax on income.

 

[g5000]

So we'd have to report *every* fucking purchase to the government throughout the year in order to get our refund?

Nope. The Fair Tax gives you a set rebate every month, dependent only on the number of people in your household. It has nothing to do with how much you spent.

And everyone gets the same amount. It is not dependent on income. So a poor person gets the same rebate as a rich person.

And everyone pays their taxes. Drug dealers, prostitutes, illegals, cash workers all pay taxes.

Kind of.

You won't be paying a sales tax on the services you get from the hooker.

And the hooker won't be paying a sales tax on the crack she buys.

Which is why Libertarians say both crack and prostitution should be legal. Another topic....

But she will pay taxes on the legal purchases she makes, whereas right now her illegal income is undeclared and thus not federally taxed at all.

 

[Siete]

So we'd have to report *every* fucking purchase to the government throughout the year in order to get our refund?

Nope. The Fair Tax gives you a set rebate every month, dependent only on the number of people in your household. It has nothing to do with how much you spent.

And everyone gets the same amount. It is not dependent on income. So a poor person gets the same rebate as a rich person.

The prebate – or “annual consumption allowance” – is designed in part to relieve poverty-level Americans by providing a monthly check that would essentially offset all of their sales tax expenditures. The amount of the allowance would be based on poverty-level guidelines and would increase for larger families.

Though the prebate is geared toward poorer families, everyone would receive monthly checks, regardless of income. The prebate brings up yet another point of contention between critics and supporters. It is the most expensive element of the entire plan, would be the largest entitlement program in American history, and would constitute a welfare payment, even for those without a need. In other words, a two-parent billionaire household with two kids would receive the same monthly prebate as a two-parent, two-child household struggling to get by on $20,000 per year.

 

[Jarhead]

So we'd have to report *every* fucking purchase to the government throughout the year in order to get our refund?

Nope. The Fair Tax gives you a set rebate every month, dependent only on the number of people in your household. It has nothing to do with how much you spent.

And everyone gets the same amount. It is not dependent on income. So a poor person gets the same rebate as a rich person.

And everyone pays their taxes. Drug dealers, prostitutes, illegals, cash workers all pay taxes.

actually, a consumption tax would make exactly that happen...unless they bought on the black market......but there is no hiding of income. Does not matter if you declare income or not. You buy something? You pay 23% tax on it.
Yes, it will increase the issues with black markets.......but that is something that can be tackled with the money we save by eliminating the IRS.

 

[hortysir]

There is no "Cruz proposal" other than eliminating the IRS. There is no plan he proposed in detail. How did you miss that?

There's a tad more to Cruz's proposal, which reading the OP rather than just the thread title would clue you into:

“We need to pass fundamental tax reform making our tax code simpler, flatter, fairer,” he said Monday at Heritage Action’s 2015 conservative policy summit. ”And I’ll tell you, the single most important tax reform, we should abolish the IRS.”

Post 1
Cruz Abolish The IRS... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Notice that 'flatter, simpler, fairer' part? If you want to watch it, its right here at around the 26 or 27 minute mark:

Senator Ted Cruz R-TX Remarks Conservative Video C-SPAN.org

Oh, and if you want details, here's the tax bill that Cruz co-sponsored on exactly this issue:

S.122 - 113th Congress 2013-2014 Fair Tax Act of 2013 Congress.gov Library of Congress

Any tax reform will prbably benefit high income earners because they pay over 100% of income taxes. Who else is going to benefit?

100% tax rates, huh? Who are these people?

Still struggling with reading comprehension, I see.
It doesn't say 100% rate.
They pay the taxes. Others get refunds greater than what they paid.
Need a chart?

 

[g5000]

I just want to say this is an awesome topic. One of the better ones we've had on this forum. It could easily have gone off the rails like so many other topics just because Ted Cruz is in the mix.

I am really enjoying this thread.