Deal Emerging: Where Does the GOP Go From Here?

[Wolfsister77]

The Tea Party is not growing, it is getting smaller and those that remain have to be more radical to get the same level of attention.

The GOP should purge them if they want to continue to be a viable political party.

And I do believe we need an opposition party that has actual opposing ideas that may actually work in this country because a dialogue about what is best for this country is desperately needed.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I thought I would never once do this... but I have a new found respect for the Tea Party. In fact I may just rejoin them. I remain a libertarian, but I will resume my support for them, for this display of defiance to an overly corrupt and inept government.

 

[KGB]

Boehner's last-ditched efforts to give House Republicans some influence on the resolution of this default/shutdown fiasco flamed out spectacularly - just like last time. That leave McConnell and Reid to forge ahead on a kick-the-can-down-the-road deal that the House will almost certainly pass.

So yet again - a GOP power play has shown the lack of power the GOP wields. And about 74% of Americans (up 11 points) are laying the blame on Republicans who now have dropped to a 24% approval rating.

It appears this desperate attempt to defund ObamaCare is not just a castastrophe for Boehner - it's apparent that it has damaged the entire GOP. And given the failure of previous GOP debt ceiling showdowns and the fact that it must be obvious to the Republican leadership that they cannot get the votes to pass anything in the House (even within their own majority party), this damage was foreseeable. Not just foreseeable - it was inevitable.

That indicates that Republican "leadership" is ineffective. It appears the party is so fractured and confused that it may be impossible to lead.

So what is the solution?

IMO: It is time to jettison the Tea Party. This group - with it's roots so firmly embedded in neo-confederacy and the John Birch Society and whitewashed with a veneer of utopian libertarianism - is just too radical to represent a majority of Americans. And they have proven to be too obstinate to participate in real negotiations. ("Capitulate or we'll tear everything down around us all" is not negotiating.)

The Tea Party reminds me of the Arabs in the 1940s who refuse to negotiate at all about the creation of the State of Israel. The result is that the State of Israel was created without any input from the Arabs. The moral of the story is that if you refuse to compromise at all - you lose your seat at the table. The writing is on the wall for the Tea Party.

The biggest question remaining is "Will the Republican Party allow itself to be destroyed along with the Tea Party?"

Very well said. Technically well written as well.

I think you're absolutely right. What i would add about the tea party is how far removed they are from reality and factual information. I wouldn't say all teabaggers are dumb, but I would say on average people who identify with the tea party are of average intelligence or below. They think with emotion rather than with logic and critical thinking.

I don't necessarily think tea party republicans in congress are dumb, I just think they know how to sell their brand to simple minded folk with no understanding of economics or our governmental system.

They are harming this country with their extremism. It's insane.

Tea Party Movement Platform

These ideas are now extreme??!! Abiding by the Constitution, Belief in the People & Eliminating Deficit Spending....wow....

 

[bendog]

Where do you guys get the fact that the TPM is growing?

from the Democratic Strategist.....

Why The Tea Party's Power Keeps Growing | Democratic Strategist

That link does not support the assertion that the TPM is growing. It supports the assertion that the GOP is getting smaller, and the TPM and evangelicals are having more influence w/n the gop.

 

[nodoginnafight]

In the great GOP Temper Tantrum of 2013.....What did Republicans gain?

Did they affect Obamacare? No
Did they enhance the power and reputation of their party? No
Did they help their country in any way? No

So one can only ask...

Why Republicans? Why?

Because it's the right thing to do.

You lefties won't understand this but people, good people, do what is right without concern about wether it makes them popular or unpopular. Sometimes, they believe, doing what is right, even if it means you will be assaulted, flamed, arrested, whatever. Even if it is a lost cause in the end.

Fighting raising the debt ceiling and obamacare is the right thing to do. The Tea Party is right, Ted Cruise is a hero.

Is Ted "Cruise" related to Tom?

I can respect that. Fight for what you believe in. But I don't approve of torching my country in an effort to re-fight battles you've already lost - repeatedly. And the polls show the majority of Americans agree with me on that one.

So you are losing the battle of public opinion - which is where political battles are fought.

A sane person would re-think their strategy.

 

[Dutch]

The tea party congress represent the people who voted for them. They're doing what they were elected to do. And their movement is growing, not the other way around. The more you middle of the road republicans and far left extermists continue to lie to their voters and not deliver on promises, the more of these "radicals" (I never thought i'd see the day when fiscal responsibility and constitutional beliefs would be radical..in america) will get elected.

So you're wrong and the media is deliberately smearing the republicans in this theater.

And tea partiers did not lie when they told their voters they were going to defund the ACA when any one with a brain knew it would be impossible? Their movement is not growing, maybe in the fantasy world you live in but in the real world they have about the same approval rating as Sarah Palin.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The Tea Party is not growing, it is getting smaller and those that remain have to be more radical to get the same level of attention.

The GOP should purge them if they want to continue to be a viable political party.

And I do believe we need an opposition party that has actual opposing ideas that may actually work in this country because a dialogue about what is best for this country is desperately needed.

You speak out of fear. You are afraid of what you don't understand. If our Founding Fathers were still alive today, no doubt you would deem them as "radicals" too.

 

[g5000]

The Tea Party peaked in the 2010 elections. Their success was based on anger at runaway spending.

Since then, the Tea Party has not adopted a platform of real spending cuts. They have made themselves the anti-ObamaCare caucus and nothing more. It is all they know how to do. They don't have a fucking clue how to reform runaway health care costs. They only know how to oppose anyone who puts an idea on the table to fix the problem who has a D after their name. They don't offer any solutions, which makes them part of the problem. If all you do is obstruct and do not do anything to fix a problem, you ARE the problem.

I don't believe the GOP is the slightest bit interested in shrinking government spending any more than the Democratic Party is. The only difference between the GOP and the Democratic Party when it comes to government spending and federal expansion of power is that the GOP wants to increase spending while decreasing taxation.

Both parties love to spend. They both make promises to increase spending in order to keep their 535 jobs in Congress.

Both parties are also proceeding full bore at expanding the power and reach of the federal government. This is an undeniable fact. Department of Homeland Security? A REPUBLICAN creation. Warrantless wiretaps, opening your mail, reading your internet traffic, monitoring your phone calls? All started under Bush and a Republican Congress.

So don't sit there and pretend the GOP is about cutting spending or states rights or shrinking government. Name the last Republican President who left office with a smaller government. Hell, keep on cheering on the psychos in the Tea Party, and your children will have a hard time naming the last Republican President, period!

Just open up legislation written by Democrats and Republicans. Stop drinking the piss from some dick who tells you what you want to hear is in those bills. Read them for your fucking self!

In those bills you will find provisions declaring state laws null and void with respect to the particular powers the act you are reading deals with. If you read this shit for yourself, your self-imposed delusions about the GOP and states rights and cutting spending will be shattered. There are just as many Republicans attaching spending amendments and appropriations onto the debt every day as there are Democrats. There are just as many Republicans seeking to expand federal power every day as there are Democrats.

Wake the fuck UP!

 

[Wolfsister77]

The Tea Party is not growing, it is getting smaller and those that remain have to be more radical to get the same level of attention.

The GOP should purge them if they want to continue to be a viable political party.

And I do believe we need an opposition party that has actual opposing ideas that may actually work in this country because a dialogue about what is best for this country is desperately needed.

You speak out of fear. You are afraid of what you don't understand. If our Founding Fathers were still alive today, no doubt you would deem them as "radicals" too.

I'm not afraid. I'm discouraged. I do not believe the Tea Party holds the view of the majority of the American people. If they did, Obama would not of been re-elected on a platform of not allowing the ACA to be defunded.

Going against the American people to satisfy a minority of the population is not the way to get your message out and shutting down the Govt. and threatening a default on our debt is not the way to Govern.

They don't know how to compromise and do not deserve a place in Congress.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Funny how all of you keep saying the Tea Party is dying or dead... yet here we still are. Powerful enough to bring the establishment Republicans to their knees. Are you that scared of us?

 

[nodoginnafight]

You're saying that the GOP "ratings" are terrible, yet completely neglect the FACT that democrats are in the same boat

The Democrats have a higher favorability rating. And the margin between the Democrats favorability rating and the GOP's is growing.

Only an insane person would be satisfied with that. It's like saying "I'm dying fast but the other guy is starting to look weaker"

How many fights you gonna win with that approach?

 

[Dutch]

The Tea Party is not growing, it is getting smaller and those that remain have to be more radical to get the same level of attention.

The GOP should purge them if they want to continue to be a viable political party.

And I do believe we need an opposition party that has actual opposing ideas that may actually work in this country because a dialogue about what is best for this country is desperately needed.

You speak out of fear. You are afraid of what you don't understand. If our Founding Fathers were still alive today, no doubt you would deem them as "radicals" too.

Stop with all of the "If the Founding Fathers were alive Today" crap. Neither me, you or anyone else would know what they would say about todays political climate. They had their arguements about policy and interpretation of the constitution just like we have today.

 

[rightwinger]

In the great GOP Temper Tantrum of 2013.....What did Republicans gain?

Did they affect Obamacare? No
Did they enhance the power and reputation of their party? No
Did they help their country in any way? No

So one can only ask...

Why Republicans? Why?

Because it's the right thing to do.

You lefties won't understand this but people, good people, do what is right without concern about wether it makes them popular or unpopular. Sometimes, they believe, doing what is right, even if it means you will be assaulted, flamed, arrested, whatever. Even if it is a lost cause in the end.

Fighting raising the debt ceiling and obamacare is the right thing to do. The Tea Party is right, Ted Cruise is a hero.

What is right about it?

What possible gain did Republicans hope for that would justify the damage they have done?
Some minor tweaks to Obamacare?

 

[Contumacious]

The biggest question remaining is "Will the Republican Party allow itself to be destroyed along with the Tea Party?"

The Republicans who are members of the "surrender caucus" will happily merge with the democrats .

The remaining ought to come home where they belong The Libertarian Party.

.

So if the goal is to grow the Libertarian Party, why drive moderates to the Democratic Party? Why not let them stay in the Republican Party.

.

To end a fraud.

Prior to 1935 , Republicans tended to Support Capitalism , individual rights and individual freedom.

That is no longer the case. Politicians call themselves Republicans yet support fascistic and socialistic policies.

Breaking up the Republican party will force those cockroaches - the surrender caucus - to seek refuge where they belong.

.

 

[Billy000]

Boehner's last-ditched efforts to give House Republicans some influence on the resolution of this default/shutdown fiasco flamed out spectacularly - just like last time. That leave McConnell and Reid to forge ahead on a kick-the-can-down-the-road deal that the House will almost certainly pass.

So yet again - a GOP power play has shown the lack of power the GOP wields. And about 74% of Americans (up 11 points) are laying the blame on Republicans who now have dropped to a 24% approval rating.

It appears this desperate attempt to defund ObamaCare is not just a castastrophe for Boehner - it's apparent that it has damaged the entire GOP. And given the failure of previous GOP debt ceiling showdowns and the fact that it must be obvious to the Republican leadership that they cannot get the votes to pass anything in the House (even within their own majority party), this damage was foreseeable. Not just foreseeable - it was inevitable.

That indicates that Republican "leadership" is ineffective. It appears the party is so fractured and confused that it may be impossible to lead.

So what is the solution?

IMO: It is time to jettison the Tea Party. This group - with it's roots so firmly embedded in neo-confederacy and the John Birch Society and whitewashed with a veneer of utopian libertarianism - is just too radical to represent a majority of Americans. And they have proven to be too obstinate to participate in real negotiations. ("Capitulate or we'll tear everything down around us all" is not negotiating.)

The Tea Party reminds me of the Arabs in the 1940s who refuse to negotiate at all about the creation of the State of Israel. The result is that the State of Israel was created without any input from the Arabs. The moral of the story is that if you refuse to compromise at all - you lose your seat at the table. The writing is on the wall for the Tea Party.

The biggest question remaining is "Will the Republican Party allow itself to be destroyed along with the Tea Party?"

Very well said. Technically well written as well.

I think you're absolutely right. What i would add about the tea party is how far removed they are from reality and factual information. I wouldn't say all teabaggers are dumb, but I would say on average people who identify with the tea party are of average intelligence or below. They think with emotion rather than with logic and critical thinking.

I don't necessarily think tea party republicans in congress are dumb, I just think they know how to sell their brand to simple minded folk with no understanding of economics or our governmental system.

They are harming this country with their extremism. It's insane.

Tea Party Movement Platform

These ideas are now extreme??!! Abiding by the Constitution, Belief in the People & Eliminating Deficit Spending....wow....

Well see on the surface they are traditionalists, sure, but in reality they are crazy radicals.

 

[Stephanie]

not sure where the gop is going but I hope the Democrat party and Obama go to hell

that's the only place that deserves their way of governing...hostile, ugly, hateful and Vengeful...

the most disgusting party I have lived under with Obama as their leader

 

[bendog]

The biggest question remaining is "Will the Republican Party allow itself to be destroyed along with the Tea Party?"

The Republicans who are members of the "surrender caucus" will happily merge with the democrats .

The remaining ought to come home where they belong The Libertarian Party.

.

So if the goal is to grow the Libertarian Party, why drive moderates to the Democratic Party? Why not let them stay in the Republican Party.

The far right has been losing even with the moderate Republicans they've been able to hold onto. It seems jetisoning the moderate Republicans will only spell bigger loses.

It doesn't make any sense.

The answer to your question is simple. Before 2010 is was not against conservative dogma to raise tax revenue (which is different from raising everyone's taxes) to fund health insurance pools for high risk folks and tax credits for working poor, and to use govt to manage state markets where insurors offer products. Now that is "socialism."

It also became against conservative dogma sometime around 2005 to have a path to citizenship in an immigration policy.

At some pt it became against conservative dogma to regulate weapons sales and ownership.

In short, conservative dogma becomes less about pragmatic governance and more about a political ideiology that above all .... distructs goverment.

 

[KGB]

Where do you guys get the fact that the TPM is growing?

from the Democratic Strategist.....

Why The Tea Party's Power Keeps Growing | Democratic Strategist

That link does not support the assertion that the TPM is growing. It supports the assertion that the GOP is getting smaller, and the TPM and evangelicals are having more influence w/n the gop.

it suggests a needed thinning of the herd. The Republican Party has lost because it abandoned its core principals. The Tea Party represents those core beliefs. What the Tea Party types need to go further is a charismatic spokesman (a Reagan type) who embraces these ideals & can effectively communicate with people. There are too many RINOs in the party now who have undercut the conservative message & are no different than the Democrats.

 

[g5000]

The Tea Party is not growing, it is getting smaller and those that remain have to be more radical to get the same level of attention.

The GOP should purge them if they want to continue to be a viable political party.

And I do believe we need an opposition party that has actual opposing ideas that may actually work in this country because a dialogue about what is best for this country is desperately needed.

You speak out of fear. You are afraid of what you don't understand. If our Founding Fathers were still alive today, no doubt you would deem them as "radicals" too.

Almost.

I laughed so hard at your post one of my lungs almost shot out of my mouth.

Comparing the Tea Party to our Founders.

Geeeeeeezus, that shit is FUNNY!!!

 

[TemplarKormac]

The Tea Party is not growing, it is getting smaller and those that remain have to be more radical to get the same level of attention.

The GOP should purge them if they want to continue to be a viable political party.

And I do believe we need an opposition party that has actual opposing ideas that may actually work in this country because a dialogue about what is best for this country is desperately needed.

You speak out of fear. You are afraid of what you don't understand. If our Founding Fathers were still alive today, no doubt you would deem them as "radicals" too.

I'm not afraid. I'm discouraged. I do not believe the Tea Party holds the view of the majority of the American people. If they did, Obama would not of been re-elected on a platform of not allowing the ACA to be defunded.

Going against the American people to satisfy a minority of the population is not the way to get your message out and shutting down the Govt. and threatening a default on our debt is not the way to Govern.

They don't know how to compromise and do not deserve a place in Congress.

Who says everyone has to hold the views of the majority? Does freedom of expression mean anything? Are they not Americans? Stop treating them as some sort of alien species. You Liberals are all about conformity. Not everyone chooses to conform to liberal ideals. The people in congress now are elected officials, saying that they "do not deserve a place in congress" is akin to saying the people who elected them had no right to put them in office. Your words are careless. They have as much right to be there representing their constituents as your congressman has representing yours.

And answer me this: Is it proper governance to continue raising the debt ceiling and further continue reckless spending? Which is more dangerous? Just how many straws will it take to break the camel's back? It discourages me that people are willing to ignore the ramifications of their actions.