Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[S.J.]

Stop being rude.

Shut up, asshole, I wasn't talking to you.

I don't care. Your demeanor is uncalled for.

I edited my comment. Go back and read it.

 

[edthecynic]

Not playing dumb, I just want to be clear on what you're saying. Now, do you believe that our spirit is what makes us who we are?

Again, I already answered this many many posts ago. Why do you play dumb? I told you you had it backwards then and you still have it backwards.
Spirit does not make us, we create our spirit by our deeds which define who we are.

Here's what I posted before:

But our spirit is the result of our physical existence, so you have it backwards. Without physical life, spirit cannot exist. Our spirit lives in everyone and everything we come in contact with during our physical life. Our spirit lives in our works long after our physical body is gone. I proved that fact with my example of the composer.

I don't think you know what the word means.

Definition of SPIRIT

1
: an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms
2
: a supernatural being or essence: as
a capitalized : holy spirit
b : soul 2a
c : an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible; specifically : ghost 2
d : a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being

Gee by that very limited definition there is no such thing as school spirit!

Definition of spirit in Oxford Dictionaries (US English) (US)

Definition of spirit
noun
1the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul:
we seek a harmony between body and spirit
the nonphysical part of a person regarded as a person’s true self and as capable of surviving physical death or separation:
a year after he left, his spirit is still present
the nonphysical part of a person manifested as an apparition after their death; a ghost.
a supernatural being:
shrines to nature spirits
(the Spirit)short for Holy Spirit.
archaic a highly refined substance or fluid thought to govern vital phenomena.

2 [in singular] those qualities regarded as forming the definitive or typical elements in the character of a person, nation, or group or in the thought and attitudes of a particular period:
the university is a symbol of the nation’s egalitarian spirit
[with adjective] a person identified with their most prominent mental or moral characteristics or with their role in a group or movement:
he was a leading spirit in the conference
a specified emotion or mood, especially one prevailing at a particular time:
I hope the team will build on this spirit of confidence
(spirits) a person’s mood:
the warm weather lifted everyone’s spirits after the winter
the quality of courage, energy, and determination or assertiveness:
his visitors admired his spirit and good temper
the attitude or intentions with which someone undertakes or regards something:
he confessed in a spirit of self-respect, not defiance
the real meaning or the intention behind something as opposed to its strict verbal interpretation:
the rule had been broken in spirit if not in letter

3 (usually spirits) strong distilled liquor such as brandy, whiskey, gin, or rum.
[with modifier] a volatile liquid, especially a fuel, prepared by distillation:
aviation spirit
archaic a solution of volatile components extracted from something, typically by distillation or by solution in alcohol:
spirits of turpentine

verb (spirits, spiriting, spirited)
[with object]
convey rapidly and secretly:
stolen cows were spirited away some distance to prevent detection

 

[S.J.]

Again, I already answered this many many posts ago. Why do you play dumb? I told you you had it backwards then and you still have it backwards.
Spirit does not make us, we create our spirit by our deeds which define who we are.

Here's what I posted before:

I don't think you know what the word means.

Definition of SPIRIT

1
: an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms
2
: a supernatural being or essence: as
a capitalized : holy spirit
b : soul 2a
c : an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible; specifically : ghost 2
d : a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being

Gee by that very limited definition there is no such thing as school spirit!

Definition of spirit in Oxford Dictionaries (US English) (US)

Definition of spirit
noun
1the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul:
we seek a harmony between body and spirit
the nonphysical part of a person regarded as a person’s true self and as capable of surviving physical death or separation:
a year after he left, his spirit is still present
the nonphysical part of a person manifested as an apparition after their death; a ghost.
a supernatural being:
shrines to nature spirits
(the Spirit)short for Holy Spirit.
archaic a highly refined substance or fluid thought to govern vital phenomena.

2 [in singular] those qualities regarded as forming the definitive or typical elements in the character of a person, nation, or group or in the thought and attitudes of a particular period:
the university is a symbol of the nation’s egalitarian spirit
[with adjective] a person identified with their most prominent mental or moral characteristics or with their role in a group or movement:
he was a leading spirit in the conference
a specified emotion or mood, especially one prevailing at a particular time:
I hope the team will build on this spirit of confidence
(spirits) a person’s mood:
the warm weather lifted everyone’s spirits after the winter
the quality of courage, energy, and determination or assertiveness:
his visitors admired his spirit and good temper
the attitude or intentions with which someone undertakes or regards something:
he confessed in a spirit of self-respect, not defiance
the real meaning or the intention behind something as opposed to its strict verbal interpretation:
the rule had been broken in spirit if not in letter

3 (usually spirits) strong distilled liquor such as brandy, whiskey, gin, or rum.
[with modifier] a volatile liquid, especially a fuel, prepared by distillation:
aviation spirit
archaic a solution of volatile components extracted from something, typically by distillation or by solution in alcohol:
spirits of turpentine

verb (spirits, spiriting, spirited)
[with object]
convey rapidly and secretly:
stolen cows were spirited away some distance to prevent detection

If you want to discuss "school spirit", you should be posting in another forum. Maybe you should just admit you're in over your head on this subject and get out before you further embarrass yourself.

 

[newpolitics]

Shut up, asshole, I wasn't talking to you.

I don't care. Your demeanor is uncalled for.

I edited my comment. Go back and read it.

Spoken like a true gentlemen. Nice work.

 

[edthecynic]

I don't think you know what the word means.

Definition of SPIRIT

1
: an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms
2
: a supernatural being or essence: as
a capitalized : holy spirit
b : soul 2a
c : an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible; specifically : ghost 2
d : a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being

Gee by that very limited definition there is no such thing as school spirit!

Definition of spirit in Oxford Dictionaries (US English) (US)

Definition of spirit
noun
1the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul:
we seek a harmony between body and spirit
the nonphysical part of a person regarded as a person’s true self and as capable of surviving physical death or separation:
a year after he left, his spirit is still present
the nonphysical part of a person manifested as an apparition after their death; a ghost.
a supernatural being:
shrines to nature spirits
(the Spirit)short for Holy Spirit.
archaic a highly refined substance or fluid thought to govern vital phenomena.

2 [in singular] those qualities regarded as forming the definitive or typical elements in the character of a person, nation, or group or in the thought and attitudes of a particular period:
the university is a symbol of the nation’s egalitarian spirit
[with adjective] a person identified with their most prominent mental or moral characteristics or with their role in a group or movement:
he was a leading spirit in the conference
a specified emotion or mood, especially one prevailing at a particular time:
I hope the team will build on this spirit of confidence
(spirits) a person’s mood:
the warm weather lifted everyone’s spirits after the winter
the quality of courage, energy, and determination or assertiveness:
his visitors admired his spirit and good temper
the attitude or intentions with which someone undertakes or regards something:
he confessed in a spirit of self-respect, not defiance
the real meaning or the intention behind something as opposed to its strict verbal interpretation:
the rule had been broken in spirit if not in letter

3 (usually spirits) strong distilled liquor such as brandy, whiskey, gin, or rum.
[with modifier] a volatile liquid, especially a fuel, prepared by distillation:
aviation spirit
archaic a solution of volatile components extracted from something, typically by distillation or by solution in alcohol:
spirits of turpentine

verb (spirits, spiriting, spirited)
[with object]
convey rapidly and secretly:
stolen cows were spirited away some distance to prevent detection

If you want to discuss "school spirit", you should be posting in another forum. Maybe you should just admit you're in over your head on this subject and get out before you further embarrass yourself.

I haven't embarrassed myself in the least!

Which came first, the physical school or the school spirit?

 

[S.J.]

Gee by that very limited definition there is no such thing as school spirit!

Definition of spirit in Oxford Dictionaries (US English) (US)

Definition of spirit
noun
1the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul:
we seek a harmony between body and spirit
the nonphysical part of a person regarded as a person’s true self and as capable of surviving physical death or separation:
a year after he left, his spirit is still present
the nonphysical part of a person manifested as an apparition after their death; a ghost.
a supernatural being:
shrines to nature spirits
(the Spirit)short for Holy Spirit.
archaic a highly refined substance or fluid thought to govern vital phenomena.

2 [in singular] those qualities regarded as forming the definitive or typical elements in the character of a person, nation, or group or in the thought and attitudes of a particular period:
the university is a symbol of the nation’s egalitarian spirit
[with adjective] a person identified with their most prominent mental or moral characteristics or with their role in a group or movement:
he was a leading spirit in the conference
a specified emotion or mood, especially one prevailing at a particular time:
I hope the team will build on this spirit of confidence
(spirits) a person’s mood:
the warm weather lifted everyone’s spirits after the winter
the quality of courage, energy, and determination or assertiveness:
his visitors admired his spirit and good temper
the attitude or intentions with which someone undertakes or regards something:
he confessed in a spirit of self-respect, not defiance
the real meaning or the intention behind something as opposed to its strict verbal interpretation:
the rule had been broken in spirit if not in letter

3 (usually spirits) strong distilled liquor such as brandy, whiskey, gin, or rum.
[with modifier] a volatile liquid, especially a fuel, prepared by distillation:
aviation spirit
archaic a solution of volatile components extracted from something, typically by distillation or by solution in alcohol:
spirits of turpentine

verb (spirits, spiriting, spirited)
[with object]
convey rapidly and secretly:
stolen cows were spirited away some distance to prevent detection

If you want to discuss "school spirit", you should be posting in another forum. Maybe you should just admit you're in over your head on this subject and get out before you further embarrass yourself.

I haven't embarrassed myself in the least!

Which came first, the physical school or the school spirit?

Tell ya what, when you get out of high school, let me know. Maybe we'll give this debate thing another shot.

 

[edthecynic]

If you want to discuss "school spirit", you should be posting in another forum. Maybe you should just admit you're in over your head on this subject and get out before you further embarrass yourself.

I haven't embarrassed myself in the least!

Which came first, the physical school or the school spirit?

Tell ya what, when you get out of high school, let me know. Maybe we'll give this debate thing another shot.

All you have left is arrogant condescension. You would say, that is the spirit that makes you what you are!
Thank you.

 

[S.J.]

I haven't embarrassed myself in the least!

Which came first, the physical school or the school spirit?

Tell ya what, when you get out of high school, let me know. Maybe we'll give this debate thing another shot.

All you have left is arrogant condescension. You would say, that is the spirit that makes you what you are!
Thank you.

I'll look forward to your graduation and hopefully you will have grown up a bit by then.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Does it really matter? This is a purely personal, if not subjective matter. There is no PROOF god exists one way or the other, and we all know it. And there isn’t any reason to debate it either. Egotism maybe.

Well, according to theists, there is proof, and as long as these people are running for president with access to the nuclear codes, I'm going to debate it.

Weapons of mass destruction no politician should have access to them.

 

[Boss]

Why have you not even attempted to refute my allegation that "spiritual evidence" is begging the question? Is it because you simply can not, and don't want to be seen as being unable to?

Because I don't comprehend you gibberish. Begging WHAT question? You haven't said!

Apparently, you know nothing about logical fallacies. It is then no wonder that you make so many of them. "Begging the question" is a logical fallacy that employs circular logic, where the conclusion is contained in the premise. It is circular because you are assuming that which you are trying to prove. In this case, you are assuming the spiritual when you start with "spiritual evidence," and conclude with a spiritual realm. Hence, your argument fails. You can't have a valid and sound argument when it contains a logical fallacy.

There is no logical fallacy here, except for your own. You expect physical evidence to support spiritual entities. The circular logic is, god must not exist because spiritual entities have no physical evidence. Or.. I don't need to prove god doesn't exist because no physical evidence can prove god exists.

I am not assuming there is spirituality, it's a proven fact there is. People have been spiritual since they've been human. The results of humans being spiritual, connecting with something spiritual, and practicing spirituality, provides overwhelming spiritual evidence. You don't recognize it, you refuse to accept it, you will not acknowledge it. That simply does not mean it's not there, no matter how much you reject it, hate it, or attack it.

What is amazing to me is, how you totally abandon scientific method. You arrogantly assume, since physical science can't currently measure spiritual existence, it won't ever be able to do so. You simply can't know this, and to assume it, is contradicting scientific method. It defeats the whole purpose of science to do what you are doing, drawing a conclusion as to the existence of a spiritual entity. Science has not concluded this, YOU have. Where you have drawn conclusions, science continues to ask questions.

We can observe other living things, and we see NO example of anything that is duped into a behavior to "explain the unknown" or whatever. We see NO examples of animal behavior which persists simply because of social pressure from the other animals. In EVERY case, we find that animal behavior has a purpose fundamental to the species. Everything you have suggested to explain away human spirituality, contradicts what we've observed in other animals.

What we can be relatively certain about is this, whether a spiritual "god" or "entity" exists, humans have a fundamental reason and purpose for needing to be spiritually connected to something. It's how we're built, it defines us, it is our most distinctly unique characteristic.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Weve been lucky so far. Atomic bombs have only existed for the past 70 years, not to mention that in this highly christian country, only a christian can become president (de facto) so this isn't saying much. There is something called "degrees of belief." Not all Christians are waiting for the end, although some are, and with every new Christian president we might have might be one who has no qualms about using those launch codes to "bring about the reign of Jesus on Earth!" These people exist.

Again, you beg the question using spiritual evidence. No dice. You are trying to prove the spiritual. You cant start there. Basic stuff.

I don't need to prove spirituality exists, it has existed for 70,000 years, we have evidence.

First of all, Neanderthals had spiritual belief, and this trend didn't start 70,000 years ago in humans. More like 200,000 years, since we've been human. So, we are not the only species to have this behavioral trait.

Again, time is irrelevant. If it had been 30,000 years, would that still count as evidence? 20? 10? 5? How many thousands of years do you need before belief means something is actually true? What is the cutoff and how have you determines that 70,000 constitutes evidence? Why can't humans simply be wrong?

Very little is known concerning the past it's merely opinion and speculation except for recorded history.

 

[Youwerecreated]

This thread is getting tiresome. There is no god. There are things..forces...senses..paths the brain can access that are not listed in a traditional science book. "Boss" calls "spiritualism" God. He is wrong. They are not the same thing. He can try to muddy the waters and re-invent something according to his own needs but his attempt to convince everyone else that his interpretation is equivelant to what faith is..is fraud.

Well that's good enough for me.

SJ. Boss isn't even arguing whatever god you believe in, so I don't understand why you even think your on the same side. It is simply your virulent hatred of atheists that drives you to his side.

God and the angels are spirits why would we not be on the side of BOSS ?

 

[Boss]

Which came first, the physical school or the school spirit?

Now you are playing semantics games. Like the word "physical," the word "spirit" can have different meanings. In the dictionary, this is usually indicated by numbers, some words have literally dozens of meanings. The word "set" has over 400 possible meanings.

This discussion has nothing to do with "school spirit" and is about human spirituality. Now, you have made the point that human spirituality doesn't exist without humans, but you have not proven that a spiritual existence doesn't exist without humans. To make such a conclusion is the same as claiming physical existence doesn't exist without humans. Of course, humans can't realize physical existence if humans don't exist. But this is extremely retarded logic.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Right on. That's what I thought: you had no response. Just the usual sideline cheer leading for your team because you can't actually debate for yourself.

You're not debating. You have offered no opposing view for the evidence for spirituality.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Not ignored exactly. Just dismissed as irrelevant. There is just nothing logical about appeals to supernaturalism.

You have brought up arguments that are long known to be flawed, and therefore they are categorized as arguments that are basically pointless. Whenever I see deliberately self-destructing arguments, I point out that the fallaciousness of them is so overwhelming, one has to consciously and deliberately blind oneself to the flaws.

First, let me make an assumption that we are in agreement that god(s) have no attributes other than those that most Theists apply to him after acknowledging that he/her is beyond human comprehension. So how does a mere mortal apply these various attributes to the incomprehensible? Like most religionists, you drench your gods with human attributes while at the same time claiming “he” is beyond our power to understand.

Perhaps what you assert as divine can be divined (in which case it would belong to the natural world). But theists insist the supernatural does not belong in the natural realm and to that the materialist says, “Okay, then by definition it is not rational and if it is not rational, knowable, extant, etc. then it is indistinguishable from nothingness. Hence, why believe it is true?"

It's not irrelevant You just have no answer for it nor do you like it that my argument trumps your your belief system.

another classic false declarative from wyc.
none of you arguments trump anything, even the smallest bit of analytical logic is enough to dismantle them...

Well so far this is the only post worth a response by you. By all means dismantle the argument or go to sleep.

 

[Youwerecreated]

There is no physical evidence, but spiritual nature and spiritual entities aren't physical. As the OP states, unless you accept spiritual evidence, it's not possible to prove spiritual existence. Page after page, you and others continue to reaffirm this point, and I thank you.

Why have you not even attempted to refute my allegation that "spiritual evidence" is begging the question? Is it because you simply can not, and don't want to be seen as being unable to?

does boss kinda smell like ywc?

Anything you say Hollie.

 

[Hollie]

Why have you not even attempted to refute my allegation that "spiritual evidence" is begging the question? Is it because you simply can not, and don't want to be seen as being unable to?

does boss kinda smell like ywc?

Anything you say Hollie.

It's the fixed stare and dilated pupils of those in a deep stupor.

 

[edthecynic]

Which came first, the physical school or the school spirit?

Now you are playing semantics games. Like the word "physical," the word "spirit" can have different meanings. In the dictionary, this is usually indicated by numbers, some words have literally dozens of meanings. The word "set" has over 400 possible meanings.

This discussion has nothing to do with "school spirit" and is about human spirituality. Now, you have made the point that human spirituality doesn't exist without humans, but you have not proven that a spiritual existence doesn't exist without humans. To make such a conclusion is the same as claiming physical existence doesn't exist without humans. Of course, humans can't realize physical existence if humans don't exist. But this is extremely retarded logic.

There you go again demanding that I must disprove your claims rather than YOU prove them. The burden is on YOU to prove that the spiritual exists without humans. I proved that the spiritual comes after the existence of humans and gave an unassailable example of such. You claim that the spiritual can also precede the existence of humans and therefore it is up yo YOU to prove it and give at least one unassailable example. You have done neither. Whenever someone debunks your claims you simply dismiss them as not believing in the spiritual, including ME of all people!!!

I have made it very clear that I believe in existential spirituality but question metaphysical spirituality and so far you have not answered any of my questions. All you have done is pontificate the same debunked examples and mindlessly condemn any who do not accept them as someone not accepting the spiritual realm because it is not physical. Saying that humans have been spiritual for 70k years does not prove that that spirituality was metaphysical rather than existential no matter how many times you repeat it without proof. You have to prove that putting ocher in a grave was metaphysical spirituality and not existential spirituality, something you have not done yet.
Get it?

 

[Hollie]

Right on. That's what I thought: you had no response. Just the usual sideline cheer leading for your team because you can't actually debate for yourself.

You're not debating. You have offered no opposing view for the evidence for spirituality.

What evidence for "spirituality". You confuse "spirituality" with human personality.

 

[Hollie]

Well that's good enough for me.

SJ. Boss isn't even arguing whatever god you believe in, so I don't understand why you even think your on the same side. It is simply your virulent hatred of atheists that drives you to his side.

God and the angels are spirits why would we not be on the side of BOSS ?

Gods, angels, jinn, Bigfoot, etc., are of myth and legend.