Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[S.J.]

Exactly, for a group that can't have babies, they can only come from God.

For a minute there I thought you might have finally graduated high school but I can see from this comment that you're still a juvenile. My mistake.

Some assholes have no sense of humor!

I might have found that funny when I was in Jr. High.

 

[Boss]

Well, well, well !! The Creationist vampire is finally revealed behind the cloak of the disinterested philosophic observer !!

Moreover, the crudity of your scientific knowledge is make clear.

No one who has carefully examined the progression from dinosaurs to birds, or has seen the clear evolution from Australopithecines to Homo erectus, then to Homo Heidelbergensis, then to both Neanderthals and Homo sapiens sapiens, would make such foolish statements.
.

Well, I guess my problem is, I haven't observed this happen. I see you telling me we've examined this, carefully, but I am not seeing the proof it happened. I see we have found some really neat dinosaur bones, and some really interesting bird bones, but it's the "progression" part I don't see. There is no evidence to support cross-genus speciation. All evolution that we've ever examined, is within a genus. If we are to believe that every form of life emerged from a single cell, there had to be a time when cross-genus speciation was happening all the time, because we have billions of life forms now, and 95% of the various species are extinct. We see no sign whatsoever, in nature, of this happening now. We can't replicate this in a controlled lab environment, but in order for all life to emerge from a single cell, this had to happen and happen a lot. Now, I am not saying it didn't happen, but what do you suppose made it stop? Did Mother Nature get tired of creating new life forms?

Let me set you straight again, I am not a Creationist, I have not argued a case for Creationism. But I do believe there is a valid argument for Intelligent Design, in fact, I think it's mighty illogical to "conclude" this isn't at least a possibility. You see, what you seem to be failing to comprehend here, is that I am keeping an open mind, and you have closed your mind. Where you have convinced yourself that evolution explains origin, I have not. I can accept Darwin's theories, and see where there is evidence to support them, but I don't believe his theories explain cross-genus speciation, and I don't believe you have explained it.

I guess I don't have as much FAITH as you do, huh?

As you well know the changes take place very slowly over many generations. And as you already admitted 95% of the various species are extinct, but there are a few of the in between species still around. Like plants that eat meat and animals that perform photosynthesis. And then there is the Platypus, a mammal that lays eggs like a reptile and has a snout and webbed feet of a duck. If that is not enough of a crossover species for you, nothing will ever do.

All you're showing is examples of species who share attributes with other species.

The Earth is approximately 4 billion years old, according to science, with the first billion or so, spent cooling down enough to become habitable by life as we know it. So this leaves about a 3 billion year window in which every living thing that exists now or ever has existed, had to emerge. There are billions of life forms, and billions more that are no longer around, so we would need to be averaging at least a creature or two per year, popping into existence from something else. But you say this takes many generations... so the math simply doesn't add up. Especially considering, in all of modern times with science diligently observing, we've never seen this happen across genuses, even through many generations.

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

 

[edthecynic]

Well, I guess my problem is, I haven't observed this happen. I see you telling me we've examined this, carefully, but I am not seeing the proof it happened. I see we have found some really neat dinosaur bones, and some really interesting bird bones, but it's the "progression" part I don't see. There is no evidence to support cross-genus speciation. All evolution that we've ever examined, is within a genus. If we are to believe that every form of life emerged from a single cell, there had to be a time when cross-genus speciation was happening all the time, because we have billions of life forms now, and 95% of the various species are extinct. We see no sign whatsoever, in nature, of this happening now. We can't replicate this in a controlled lab environment, but in order for all life to emerge from a single cell, this had to happen and happen a lot. Now, I am not saying it didn't happen, but what do you suppose made it stop? Did Mother Nature get tired of creating new life forms?

Let me set you straight again, I am not a Creationist, I have not argued a case for Creationism. But I do believe there is a valid argument for Intelligent Design, in fact, I think it's mighty illogical to "conclude" this isn't at least a possibility. You see, what you seem to be failing to comprehend here, is that I am keeping an open mind, and you have closed your mind. Where you have convinced yourself that evolution explains origin, I have not. I can accept Darwin's theories, and see where there is evidence to support them, but I don't believe his theories explain cross-genus speciation, and I don't believe you have explained it.

I guess I don't have as much FAITH as you do, huh?

As you well know the changes take place very slowly over many generations. And as you already admitted 95% of the various species are extinct, but there are a few of the in between species still around. Like plants that eat meat and animals that perform photosynthesis. And then there is the Platypus, a mammal that lays eggs like a reptile and has a snout and webbed feet of a duck. If that is not enough of a crossover species for you, nothing will ever do.

All you're showing is examples of species who share attributes with other species.

The Earth is approximately 4 billion years old, according to science, with the first billion or so, spent cooling down enough to become habitable by life as we know it. So this leaves about a 3 billion year window in which every living thing that exists now or ever has existed, had to emerge. There are billions of life forms, and billions more that are no longer around, so we would need to be averaging at least a creature or two per year, popping into existence from something else. But you say this takes many generations... so the math simply doesn't add up. Especially considering, in all of modern times with science diligently observing, we've never seen this happen across genuses, even through many generations.

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

YOUR "math" doesn't add up. There is nothing that says evolution takes place on a regular schedule, except in your non-existent metaphysical spiritual imagination.

P.S. You forgot the mammal's DNA in the Platypus!

 

[Boss]

As you well know the changes take place very slowly over many generations. And as you already admitted 95% of the various species are extinct, but there are a few of the in between species still around. Like plants that eat meat and animals that perform photosynthesis. And then there is the Platypus, a mammal that lays eggs like a reptile and has a snout and webbed feet of a duck. If that is not enough of a crossover species for you, nothing will ever do.

All you're showing is examples of species who share attributes with other species.

The Earth is approximately 4 billion years old, according to science, with the first billion or so, spent cooling down enough to become habitable by life as we know it. So this leaves about a 3 billion year window in which every living thing that exists now or ever has existed, had to emerge. There are billions of life forms, and billions more that are no longer around, so we would need to be averaging at least a creature or two per year, popping into existence from something else. But you say this takes many generations... so the math simply doesn't add up. Especially considering, in all of modern times with science diligently observing, we've never seen this happen across genuses, even through many generations.

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

YOUR "math" doesn't add up. There is nothing that says evolution takes place on a regular schedule, except in your non-existent metaphysical spiritual imagination.

P.S. You forgot the mammal's DNA in the Platypus!

No, YOUR math doesn't add up, buddy. Billions of life forms, billions more who are no longer with us... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab... (so much for falsifiable evidence.) You explain that it takes "many generations" for even the slightest changes, but we don't have that much time to work with, unless you think the Earth is like 100 trillion years old, or something. Even if that is the case, you've not explained what happened, why we no longer see this miraculous cross-genus speciation happening? Did nature get bored?

You see, if what you theorize (with no basis) were true, I would expect to see a new species to emerge from an existing species on a regular basis, or at least within the past 200-300 years, since we've been scientifically observing animals. But nadda! No trace, does not happen in nature, can't make it happen in a controlled lab environment, it doesn't work.

Doesn't matter about the DNA of a platypus, they aren't a reptile that turned into a duck, and they never will be.

 

[Derideo_Te]

All you're showing is examples of species who share attributes with other species.

The Earth is approximately 4 billion years old, according to science, with the first billion or so, spent cooling down enough to become habitable by life as we know it. So this leaves about a 3 billion year window in which every living thing that exists now or ever has existed, had to emerge. There are billions of life forms, and billions more that are no longer around, so we would need to be averaging at least a creature or two per year, popping into existence from something else. But you say this takes many generations... so the math simply doesn't add up. Especially considering, in all of modern times with science diligently observing, we've never seen this happen across genuses, even through many generations.

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

YOUR "math" doesn't add up. There is nothing that says evolution takes place on a regular schedule, except in your non-existent metaphysical spiritual imagination.

P.S. You forgot the mammal's DNA in the Platypus!

No, YOUR math doesn't add up, buddy. Billions of life forms, billions more who are no longer with us... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab... (so much for falsifiable evidence.) You explain that it takes "many generations" for even the slightest changes, but we don't have that much time to work with, unless you think the Earth is like 100 trillion years old, or something. Even if that is the case, you've not explained what happened, why we no longer see this miraculous cross-genus speciation happening? Did nature get bored?

You see, if what you theorize (with no basis) were true, I would expect to see a new species to emerge from an existing species on a regular basis, or at least within the past 200-300 years, since we've been scientifically observing animals. But nadda! No trace, does not happen in nature, can't make it happen in a controlled lab environment, it doesn't work.

Doesn't matter about the DNA of a platypus, they aren't a reptile that turned into a duck, and they never will be.

More of your profound ignorance on display? Evolution is the means by which species ADAPT to changing environments. So in order to witness evolution you need to look at environments that changed during that period. One example were moths during the early industrial revolution. Everything became covered with soot from coal burning plants which meant that light colored moths were now easily visible to their prey against the dark background. These moths died out while darker colored moths survived. If there was an environmental change that made moth wings a liability they would adapt to no longer have them. Then if another change meant that it was advantageous for them to be able to swim and breathe underwater those that adapted would survive while the originals died out. Eventually you would have small swimming insects that you would consider to be a completely different species to the original moths. It is doubtful that you will accept any of these established facts because you have proven that you lack the necessary fundamental comprehension abilities. Have a nice day.

 

[editec]

Many people certainly DO have definitive proof that god exists, that's why they believe in god. You may not be willing to accept their proof, because it is spiritual and not physical, but that's your problem.

Not, actually it's religions problem AND its saving grace.

You truly do not understand your own religion, lad.

Perhaps this phase might help you to remember what your FAITH really is..

And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

 

[Youwerecreated]

No, I gave you the translation that was INSPIRED by God, you gave a translation that was inspired by televangelists.

I thought you were an atheist, Ed.

God made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?
- Unknown

God didn't make you an atheist you chose to be an atheist. Gays are gay because they made that choice there is nothing biological that produces a gay person. God does not hate the person he hates the sin. God gave us the ability to reproduce he is not directly creating each individual if he was you would be like Adam or Eve.

 

[Youwerecreated]

As you well know the changes take place very slowly over many generations. And as you already admitted 95% of the various species are extinct, but there are a few of the in between species still around. Like plants that eat meat and animals that perform photosynthesis. And then there is the Platypus, a mammal that lays eggs like a reptile and has a snout and webbed feet of a duck. If that is not enough of a crossover species for you, nothing will ever do.

How the hell is that proof of cross-genus speciation?

Those examples cross more than just genus and species, they cross KINGDOMS.
Get it?

Fairytale! organisms only possess the genetic data to reproduce what they are. You might point to small changes within a family that is how you get so many different breeds within a family but it never goes beyond that point. Cat is a Cat and Dog is a Dog a Human is a Human. Cross breeding and selective breeding are the most effective way's to produce a new breed.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Exactly, for a group that can't have babies, they can only come from God.

For a minute there I thought you might have finally graduated high school but I can see from this comment that you're still a juvenile. My mistake.

Some assholes have no sense of humor!

Some assholes shouldn't share their jokes.

 

[Youwerecreated]

YOUR "math" doesn't add up. There is nothing that says evolution takes place on a regular schedule, except in your non-existent metaphysical spiritual imagination.

P.S. You forgot the mammal's DNA in the Platypus!

No, YOUR math doesn't add up, buddy. Billions of life forms, billions more who are no longer with us... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab... (so much for falsifiable evidence.) You explain that it takes "many generations" for even the slightest changes, but we don't have that much time to work with, unless you think the Earth is like 100 trillion years old, or something. Even if that is the case, you've not explained what happened, why we no longer see this miraculous cross-genus speciation happening? Did nature get bored?

You see, if what you theorize (with no basis) were true, I would expect to see a new species to emerge from an existing species on a regular basis, or at least within the past 200-300 years, since we've been scientifically observing animals. But nadda! No trace, does not happen in nature, can't make it happen in a controlled lab environment, it doesn't work.

Doesn't matter about the DNA of a platypus, they aren't a reptile that turned into a duck, and they never will be.

More of your profound ignorance on display? Evolution is the means by which species ADAPT to changing environments. So in order to witness evolution you need to look at environments that changed during that period. One example were moths during the early industrial revolution. Everything became covered with soot from coal burning plants which meant that light colored moths were now easily visible to their prey against the dark background. These moths died out while darker colored moths survived. If there was an environmental change that made moth wings a liability they would adapt to no longer have them. Then if another change meant that it was advantageous for them to be able to swim and breathe underwater those that adapted would survive while the originals died out. Eventually you would have small swimming insects that you would consider to be a completely different species to the original moths. It is doubtful that you will accept any of these established facts because you have proven that you lack the necessary fundamental comprehension abilities. Have a nice day.

Whew 4 billion years for every species that ever existed that is a lot of adapting

 

[dblack]

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

It's these sorts of mis-statements that make it hard to take the creationists' arguments seriously at all. You need at least a cursory understanding of what you're critiquing, assuming your intent here is to make a serious critique of evolution. If so, you need to so some reading.

... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab.

Really? None at all? Is your google broken? Let me google that for you

 

[Youwerecreated]

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

It's these sorts of mis-statements that make it hard to take the creationists' arguments seriously at all. You need at least a cursory understanding of what you're critiquing, assuming your intent here is to make a serious critique of evolution. If so, you need to so some reading.

... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab.

Really? None at all? Is your google broken? Let me google that for you

Well since there is no viable mechanism cross breeding is all that is left.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

It's these sorts of mis-statements that make it hard to take the creationists' arguments seriously at all. You need at least a cursory understanding of what you're critiquing, assuming your intent here is to make a serious critique of evolution. If so, you need to so some reading.

... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab.

Really? None at all? Is your google broken? Let me google that for you

If your side didn't think creationists arguments are not legitimate and should not be taken serious your side would not see them (creationists) as a threat.

 

[edthecynic]

All you're showing is examples of species who share attributes with other species.

The Earth is approximately 4 billion years old, according to science, with the first billion or so, spent cooling down enough to become habitable by life as we know it. So this leaves about a 3 billion year window in which every living thing that exists now or ever has existed, had to emerge. There are billions of life forms, and billions more that are no longer around, so we would need to be averaging at least a creature or two per year, popping into existence from something else. But you say this takes many generations... so the math simply doesn't add up. Especially considering, in all of modern times with science diligently observing, we've never seen this happen across genuses, even through many generations.

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

YOUR "math" doesn't add up. There is nothing that says evolution takes place on a regular schedule, except in your non-existent metaphysical spiritual imagination.

P.S. You forgot the mammal's DNA in the Platypus!

No, YOUR math doesn't add up, buddy. Billions of life forms, billions more who are no longer with us... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab... (so much for falsifiable evidence.) You explain that it takes "many generations" for even the slightest changes, but we don't have that much time to work with, unless you think the Earth is like 100 trillion years old, or something. Even if that is the case, you've not explained what happened, why we no longer see this miraculous cross-genus speciation happening? Did nature get bored?

You see, if what you theorize (with no basis) were true, I would expect to see a new species to emerge from an existing species on a regular basis, or at least within the past 200-300 years, since we've been scientifically observing animals. But nadda! No trace, does not happen in nature, can't make it happen in a controlled lab environment, it doesn't work.

Doesn't matter about the DNA of a platypus, they aren't a reptile that turned into a duck, and they never will be.

You would be stupid enough to expect the moon to be made of green cheese too. Just because you expect something does not mean it is a reality, and in your case it probably isn't.

They actually are finding new species all the time, whose to say they just appeared or have been around forever and just now are discovered.

new species discovered - Google Search

new genus discovered - Google Search

 

[Youwerecreated]

YOUR "math" doesn't add up. There is nothing that says evolution takes place on a regular schedule, except in your non-existent metaphysical spiritual imagination.

P.S. You forgot the mammal's DNA in the Platypus!

No, YOUR math doesn't add up, buddy. Billions of life forms, billions more who are no longer with us... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab... (so much for falsifiable evidence.) You explain that it takes "many generations" for even the slightest changes, but we don't have that much time to work with, unless you think the Earth is like 100 trillion years old, or something. Even if that is the case, you've not explained what happened, why we no longer see this miraculous cross-genus speciation happening? Did nature get bored?

You see, if what you theorize (with no basis) were true, I would expect to see a new species to emerge from an existing species on a regular basis, or at least within the past 200-300 years, since we've been scientifically observing animals. But nadda! No trace, does not happen in nature, can't make it happen in a controlled lab environment, it doesn't work.

Doesn't matter about the DNA of a platypus, they aren't a reptile that turned into a duck, and they never will be.

You would be stupid enough to expect the moon to be made of green cheese too. Just because you expect something does not mean it is a reality, and in your case it probably isn't.

They actually are finding new species all the time, whose to say they just appeared or have been around forever and just now are discovered.

new species discovered - Google Search

new genus discovered - Google Search

How do you know these so called new species did not exist all along ?

14 Extinct Animals That Were Rediscovered

 

[amrchaos]

Why are we talking about science in a thread about spiritual existance?

 

[numan]

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

If anyone thinks a platypus is a combination of a reptile and a duck, they are mindless, uneducated gibbering idiots.
.

 

[Boss]

YOUR "math" doesn't add up. There is nothing that says evolution takes place on a regular schedule, except in your non-existent metaphysical spiritual imagination.

P.S. You forgot the mammal's DNA in the Platypus!

No, YOUR math doesn't add up, buddy. Billions of life forms, billions more who are no longer with us... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab... (so much for falsifiable evidence.) You explain that it takes "many generations" for even the slightest changes, but we don't have that much time to work with, unless you think the Earth is like 100 trillion years old, or something. Even if that is the case, you've not explained what happened, why we no longer see this miraculous cross-genus speciation happening? Did nature get bored?

You see, if what you theorize (with no basis) were true, I would expect to see a new species to emerge from an existing species on a regular basis, or at least within the past 200-300 years, since we've been scientifically observing animals. But nadda! No trace, does not happen in nature, can't make it happen in a controlled lab environment, it doesn't work.

Doesn't matter about the DNA of a platypus, they aren't a reptile that turned into a duck, and they never will be.

More of your profound ignorance on display? Evolution is the means by which species ADAPT to changing environments. So in order to witness evolution you need to look at environments that changed during that period. One example were moths during the early industrial revolution. Everything became covered with soot from coal burning plants which meant that light colored moths were now easily visible to their prey against the dark background. These moths died out while darker colored moths survived. If there was an environmental change that made moth wings a liability they would adapt to no longer have them. Then if another change meant that it was advantageous for them to be able to swim and breathe underwater those that adapted would survive while the originals died out. Eventually you would have small swimming insects that you would consider to be a completely different species to the original moths. It is doubtful that you will accept any of these established facts because you have proven that you lack the necessary fundamental comprehension abilities. Have a nice day.

My ignorance? I beg to differ. Here, you apparently think that moths changing colors is an example of cross-genus speciation! Let's be clear, you have presented an example of ONE genus, adapting and changing, but remaining ONE genus. Then, you make up some unsupportable nonsense about their wings and ability to swim, and claim this makes them a different species, but they still belong to the same genus, even IF you're correct. And how does ONE genus, changing and adapting, but remaining the same genus, give us billions of new unique genuses?

I don't accept what you are saying as "established fact" until you've proven it, and you certainly haven't done that. Animals do adapt and change over time, but they do not change genuses. New species may emerge within a genus, but this does not demonstrate or prove what you need to prove.

 

[Boss]

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

It's these sorts of mis-statements that make it hard to take the creationists' arguments seriously at all. You need at least a cursory understanding of what you're critiquing, assuming your intent here is to make a serious critique of evolution. If so, you need to so some reading.

... no signs of any kind of cross-genus speciation happening today, or in recent history. No real evidence to show it ever happened. We can't even duplicate your theory in a lab.

Really? None at all? Is your google broken? Let me google that for you

NOTHING... NADDA! You presented a google search which basically confirms what I said. ALL evolution takes place within a genus. A new "species" may emerge, but it is not of a different genus or biological classification, and this is what needs to be proven, in order to prove evolution has anything to do with origin. Not only does that need to be clearly established, but you also need to explain why this doesn't happen anymore, and we can't reproduce it in a lab. All I am seeing, all I continue to see, is you hurling "CREATIONIST" at me like an insult, and pretending you've answered my questions.

 

[Boss]

Now if we could go into a lab and take a reptile's DNA and a duck's DNA, and make a Platypus from it, I might be willing to accept that something like this was possible in nature, but the fact is, we can't.

If anyone thinks a platypus is a combination of a reptile and a duck, they are mindless, uneducated gibbering idiots.
.

Hey, that was YOUR buddy, not mine! Talk to him! I was merely ridiculing an absurd example presented of supposed cross-genus speciation. I couldn't agree with you more.