Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

[JoeB131]

[
Looks like I was right: There is little in government right now that you can point to and claim is efficient, responsive, and beneficial to the citizens of the United States.

You didn't even try.

I didn't realize that I was being asked what in governmetn I thought worked well.

Social Security works fine. So does Medicare, the Park Service, Department of Transportation, the Post office. They do what they are designed to do.

Medicare Scores higher in customer satisfaction than private insurance companies, for instance.

Again, always amused when someone who grabs them government dollars with both hands whines about government being too big. It's like someone complaining about "Morality" on his way to the whorehouse.

 

[Andylusion]

[

Maybe they aren't so stupid, maybe they shopped around for the best deal they could by reading what was and wasn't offered. Obummercare's one size fits all is just stupid....

The best deal for who?

You see, you might have blundered into the best argument against Employer provided health care. It really works best for the employer, not the employee.

Now, a point I've hit on when it comes to agreements, is that when I was at this company, they changed their "plan" three times and the provider once. One of them even tried to talk us into using THEIR dentists rather than the dentists we had developed relationships with. After I had the first of my two surgeries (the more expensive one), they got rid of the Point of Service Plan that I and others had used.

but overall- only 75% are adequately covered, you are one layoff from being not covered at all. (COBRA is a bad joke) we spend twice per capita what the "Socialist" countries, but have lower life expectencies and a higher infant mortality rate.

Now, you probably think this is a good thing, and no doubt you will blurt out some horseshit about "Freedom" and "Founding Fathers" or some such shit I have no patience for.

First, life expectancy and infant mortality, do not reflect on the quality of health care. Infant mortality is different between countries because they use different standards. In the US, every single birth is counted, no matter how early they are born. In England, babies born too early, are simply left to die, and are not counted as a birth at all.

Obviously, if you don't count babies that are too early, which are the most likely to die, then yeah your numbers will be better.

Life expectancy has dozens of factors that are not related to health care at all. Homocide, Auto Fatalities, Life Style, even genetic differences. None of which can be affected by the health care system. Switching to a single payer system wouldn't change any of these differences.

As far as employer health insurance benefiting the employer and not the employee...

You do realize that the employer has to pay the same premiums, and is under the same exclusions and premiums that the employee pays, right? But then the employer has to fork out the employer portion of the plan.

The employer doesn't get a special deal, better than the employees.

That said, I am against health insurance being tied to employment. It should be like auto insurance, or life insurance.

Ironically, it was government that created this system. This is how it normally goes. Government causes a problem, and then leftist claim the solution is more government to fix the problem caused by government.

Now, are companies are looking to cut cost? Yeah. You would too if you were the one paying the full cost. If employer paid health care is ever eliminated, and you have to pay the full cost of insurance, you'll be hunting for cheaper plans yourself.

The problem right now is that the employer is doing what you would do, for you, and you believe in mythology that the employer could pay for anything, and they are just cutting cost to be mean or something.

 

[JoeB131]

[

First, life expectancy and infant mortality, do not reflect on the quality of health care. Infant mortality is different between countries because they use different standards. In the US, every single birth is counted, no matter how early they are born. In England, babies born too early, are simply left to die, and are not counted as a birth at all.

Obviously, if you don't count babies that are too early, which are the most likely to die, then yeah your numbers will be better.

Yes, yes, those mean old socialists hate babies. It has nothing to do with the fact that 1 out of four pregnant women have no access to pre-natal care. The US has more dead Premies because we have more premature births than other countries.

[
Life expectancy has dozens of factors that are not related to health care at all. Homocide, Auto Fatalities, Life Style, even genetic differences. None of which can be affected by the health care system. Switching to a single payer system wouldn't change any of these differences.

Most of those countries have just as many car accidents as we do, and while our homicide rate is much too high (thanks NRA) it's really not high enough to fudge the Life Expectency numbers. (Only 16,000 homicides a year out of 308 million people).

As far as employer health insurance benefiting the employer and not the employee...

You do realize that the employer has to pay the same premiums, and is under the same exclusions and premiums that the employee pays, right? But then the employer has to fork out the employer portion of the plan.

The employer doesn't get a special deal, better than the employees.

Well, this simply isn't true. Employers get a group rate, therefore pay less per person than the employee would have to pay if let's say, he's a 52 year old man with high blood pressure and a family history of cancer.

That said, I am against health insurance being tied to employment. It should be like auto insurance, or life insurance.

And if that happened, private insurance would collapse in five years. The old wouldn't be able to afford it, and the young would just as soon do without. It would also drastically reduce tax revenues as if individuals paid for their policies, it would reduce their income drastically.

Ironically, it was government that created this system. This is how it normally goes. Government causes a problem, and then leftist claim the solution is more government to fix the problem caused by government.

Um, no. The thing was that progressives have been proposing single payer health care since Teddy Roosevelt. And while every other industrialized country was developing health coverage, we were putting together the mess we have now. It's what happens when the people who make money dictate the policy.

Now, are companies are looking to cut cost? Yeah. You would too if you were the one paying the full cost. If employer paid health care is ever eliminated, and you have to pay the full cost of insurance, you'll be hunting for cheaper plans yourself.

How come these companies never look to cut costs by reducing executive salaries?

The problem right now is that the employer is doing what you would do, for you, and you believe in mythology that the employer could pay for anything, and they are just cutting cost to be mean or something.

I would never engage in the kind of douchebaggery my last employer engaged in, thanks. Besides constantly trying to find the worst health care program they could possibly find, they had a lovely habit of firing employees if they got sick, injured or pregnant.

Here's the thing. Their job is to find the most profitable way to do things. I get that. I do that all day, finding the best and cheapest services and parts (while still minding quality and service levels.) Health Care should not be a widget in a companies budget.

The rest of the world gets this. We don't.

 

[Uncensored2008]

And somehow, we're assholes for telling you that, but it's dandy when you say it to veterans?

At least you're no longer pretending to care about veterans.

NO, guy, I wouldn't say that, that's the point.

I think the VA has issues that need to be addressed, but unfortunately, first we have to get through the din of the "OH MY GOD THERE'S A NEGRO IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND ITS HIS FAULT" screaming your side does.

I'm going to stop reading your posts when you say something stupid.

Then you are going to stop reading his posts altogether.

 

[Lakhota]

GOP blocked the bill from debate. No surprise.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Joe, I have no idea who you're trying to fool with your drivel.
You go to your own Doctor....he either refers you to a specialist or he himself will order up an MRI. His or the specialist's office will set up the appointment for the MRI. They call and let you know when and where to go for the MRI.
That's how it works in the real world....I've had several MRI's and never once had an issue.

I've had PT and cortisone shots on occasions before I had an MRI. But never once did I have an issue with what YOU would call "substandard insurance coverage". Go figure, now run along

My wife's doctor told her that she could go wherever she wanted...but yeah, no issue.

Not me. We have to do everything "in network." Even so, my son had an MRI when he broke his leg - I didn't even know they used them for broken bones, but I guess it shows things that an x-ray doesn't. No hassle, we just had to drive a few blocks to another facility.

Yeah, probably true...when he said "go wherever you want", I figure he just meant that HE didn't care where, as long as she got the MRI.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Guy, if you work for the government and you think government is worthless, doesn't that make you worthless? I find it amusing the guys who bitch about the government the loudest are the ones grabbing that government money with both hands.

Incidentally, I think ObamaCare is a mess because instead of going to Single Payer, it built on top of the corrupt private insurance system that even the insurance industry admits can't go on as it is.

Um... I'd take government money right now, if you are stupid enough to let me. Absolutely!

If you told me today, that you are going to hand out your hard earned money to anyone who says they need it, I'll send you certified mail, with my "need it" note before the end of the day. I'll take your money, and think you are a moron, the entire time.

You morons on the left, don't seem to grasp this. You can take advantage of a system, that you don't agree with. The two are not mutually exclusive.

You drive up the cost of health insurance, and then are shocked people drop the health care coverage they did have, to get free insurance from the government. Many of those people might even oppose government run health insurance, but because you idiots made private insurance too expensive, we take what we have to. I, myself, am an example of this.

Mr too, the only problem is how shitty they are at approving meds. I have fucking cancer, the chemo makes me nauseous, and Obamacare thinks I only need 10 pills for the entire fucking month, which wouldn't get me through a week.

And Joe thinks he can persuade me how wonderful it is that the government is in charge of my health insurance now.

Serious question: have you tried pot?

 

[Jarlaxle]

The government sure as hell wouldn't if we had single-payer.

I'd point you towards the VA, but you're willfully blind to the way they've been not treating veterans.

He won't admit that, he's got this lie that he's a veteran. He can't admit he doesn't know what he's talking about with the VA because he'd have to admit his lie.

I have no problem accepting his veteran status...with the caveat that he turned in his balls to the quartermaster when me mustered out.

He claims to have BEEN a supply sergeant...but this is the same twerp who actually claimed that rail transportation was not critical to the USSR in WW2!

I truly wonder if he is having hallucinations.

 

[daveman]

[
Looks like I was right: There is little in government right now that you can point to and claim is efficient, responsive, and beneficial to the citizens of the United States.

You didn't even try.

I didn't realize that I was being asked what in governmetn I thought worked well.

Social Security works fine. So does Medicare, the Park Service, Department of Transportation, the Post office. They do what they are designed to do.

Medicare Scores higher in customer satisfaction than private insurance companies, for instance.

Again, always amused when someone who grabs them government dollars with both hands whines about government being too big. It's like someone complaining about "Morality" on his way to the whorehouse.

I know this concept is alien to you, but I earn my government dollars.

Try earning your pay for once.

 

[daveman]

Democrats fail in attempt to reverse Hobby Lobby contraceptive ruling | WJLA.com

WASHINGTON (AP) - Senate Republicans have blocked a bill aimed at restoring free contraception for women who get their health insurance from companies that object on religious grounds.

The vote on Wednesday was 56-43 to move ahead on the measure, short of the 60 votes necessary to proceed.

Democrats sponsored the election-year bill to reverse last month's Supreme Court ruling that closely held businesses with religious objections could deny coverage under President Barack Obama's health care law.

Republicans called the bill a political stunt aimed at helping vulnerable Democratic incumbents in the midterm elections.

Democrats appealed to female voters, critical to their hopes of holding onto their Senate majority, in arguing for the measure.​

Ooops.

 

[Lakhota]

Women, Hobby Lobby and the GOP: Hell to Pay in November?

Two weeks after the Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision allowing corporations to refuse some kinds of birth control coverage for female employees, the brouhaha has not died down. In fact, anger is building among women -- and at precisely the time the Democrats are counting on single females to push them to victory in November.

Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader, promised action to undo the decision, which not only elevates the rights of corporations over those of women, but legitimizes a form of sex discrimination in employment.

One option would be repeal of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the law on which the decision was based (impossible with a slim Democratic majority and no chance at all in the Republican-controlled House). Instead, a vote was held on Wednesday on whether to consider a measure dubbed the "Not My Boss' Business Act," introduced by Senators Patty Murray (D-WA) and Mark Udall (D-CO). The bill mandates that employers cannot disrupt coverage for contraception or other health services that are guaranteed under federal law. No big surprise -- the GOP blocked the bill from even going forward for debate.

MORE: Women, Hobby Lobby and the GOP: Hell to Pay in November?*|*Martha Burk

Senate Republicans Block Bill To Reverse Hobby Lobby Decision

Yes, the GOP blocked the bill from debate, but women and Democrats may still get some mileage out of the effort.

 

[Meister]

Women, Hobby Lobby and the GOP: Hell to Pay in November?

Two weeks after the Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision allowing corporations to refuse some kinds of birth control coverage for female employees, the brouhaha has not died down. In fact, anger is building among women -- and at precisely the time the Democrats are counting on single females to push them to victory in November.

Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader, promised action to undo the decision, which not only elevates the rights of corporations over those of women, but legitimizes a form of sex discrimination in employment.

One option would be repeal of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the law on which the decision was based (impossible with a slim Democratic majority and no chance at all in the Republican-controlled House). Instead, a vote was held on Wednesday on whether to consider a measure dubbed the "Not My Boss' Business Act," introduced by Senators Patty Murray (D-WA) and Mark Udall (D-CO). The bill mandates that employers cannot disrupt coverage for contraception or other health services that are guaranteed under federal law. No big surprise -- the GOP blocked the bill from even going forward for debate.

MORE: Women, Hobby Lobby and the GOP: Hell to Pay in November?*|*Martha Burk

Senate Republicans Block Bill To Reverse Hobby Lobby Decision

Yes, the GOP blocked the bill from debate, but women and Democrats may still get some mileage out of the effort.

Not buying your agenda driven source, Lacky.
The hoopla is just politics.....in an election year and the dems are scrambling.
HL, GOP is not changing the minds of the independents and the repubs in this matter because they know it's BS.

 

[JoeB131]

I know this concept is alien to you, but I earn my government dollars.

Try earning your pay for once.

Really? Aren't you getting paid because of work you did years ago? How are you "Earning" those, exactly?

 

[JoeB131]

Democrats fail in attempt to reverse Hobby Lobby contraceptive ruling | WJLA.com

WASHINGTON (AP) - Senate Republicans have blocked a bill aimed at restoring free contraception for women who get their health insurance from companies that object on religious grounds.

The vote on Wednesday was 56-43 to move ahead on the measure, short of the 60 votes necessary to proceed.

Democrats sponsored the election-year bill to reverse last month's Supreme Court ruling that closely held businesses with religious objections could deny coverage under President Barack Obama's health care law.

Republicans called the bill a political stunt aimed at helping vulnerable Democratic incumbents in the midterm elections.

Democrats appealed to female voters, critical to their hopes of holding onto their Senate majority, in arguing for the measure.​

Ooops.

Yup, you guys are so enslaved to the religious crazies you are playing right into their hands...

Nice going, guys.

 

[daveman]

I know this concept is alien to you, but I earn my government dollars.

Try earning your pay for once.

Really? Aren't you getting paid because of work you did years ago? How are you "Earning" those, exactly?

Because I had a contract with the government. I give them 20 years of my life, and in exchange they give me money for what's left of it.

You don't like it? Tough shit, douchebag. Nothing you can do about it except whine like a little bitch on the internet.

Funny how you don't have the exact same objection to, say, union pensions.

 

[daveman]

Democrats fail in attempt to reverse Hobby Lobby contraceptive ruling | WJLA.com

WASHINGTON (AP) - Senate Republicans have blocked a bill aimed at restoring free contraception for women who get their health insurance from companies that object on religious grounds.

The vote on Wednesday was 56-43 to move ahead on the measure, short of the 60 votes necessary to proceed.

Democrats sponsored the election-year bill to reverse last month's Supreme Court ruling that closely held businesses with religious objections could deny coverage under President Barack Obama's health care law.

Republicans called the bill a political stunt aimed at helping vulnerable Democratic incumbents in the midterm elections.

Democrats appealed to female voters, critical to their hopes of holding onto their Senate majority, in arguing for the measure.​

Ooops.

Yup, you guys are so enslaved to the religious crazies you are playing right into their hands...

Nice going, guys.

Oh, eat shit. You don't get to take away people's right to freedom of religion, no matter how badly you want to.

Move to North Korea. It's EXACTLY what you want.

 

[JoeB131]

I know this concept is alien to you, but I earn my government dollars.

Try earning your pay for once.

Really? Aren't you getting paid because of work you did years ago? How are you "Earning" those, exactly?

Because I had a contract with the government. I give them 20 years of my life, and in exchange they give me money for what's left of it.

You don't like it? Tough shit, douchebag. Nothing you can do about it except whine like a little bitch on the internet.

Funny how you don't have the exact same objection to, say, union pensions.

Funny, I had a contract with my employer. It's the one where they said that I work for them, they pay for my medical care.

Incidentally, I don't have a problem with pensions. I have a problem with someone who gets a pension whines about how government spends too much... on the other guy.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Oh, eat shit. You don't get to take away people's right to freedom of religion, no matter how badly you want to.

Move to North Korea. It's EXACTLY what you want.

So by your logic, if someone is a Satanist who performs human sacrifice, you don't want the government taking way their right to "Freedom of religion"? How about Rastafarians to smoke pot?

I mean, shit, if you want to make it okay to break the law if it offends your religion, I'm all cool with that.

I don't think you'd want to live in that world.

 

[Meister]

[
Oh, eat shit. You don't get to take away people's right to freedom of religion, no matter how badly you want to.

Move to North Korea. It's EXACTLY what you want.

So by your logic, if someone is a Satanist who performs human sacrifice, you don't want the government taking way their right to "Freedom of religion"? How about Rastafarians to smoke pot?

I mean, shit, if you want to make it okay to break the law if it offends your religion, I'm all cool with that.

I don't think you'd want to live in that world.

Seriously, Joe, you have literally gone off the cliff with this post.
No one was suggesting what your outlier mind concocted.
Sheesh

 

[JoeB131]

[
Oh, eat shit. You don't get to take away people's right to freedom of religion, no matter how badly you want to.

Move to North Korea. It's EXACTLY what you want.

So by your logic, if someone is a Satanist who performs human sacrifice, you don't want the government taking way their right to "Freedom of religion"? How about Rastafarians to smoke pot?

I mean, shit, if you want to make it okay to break the law if it offends your religion, I'm all cool with that.

I don't think you'd want to live in that world.

Seriously, Joe, you have literally gone off the cliff with this post.
No one was suggesting what your outlier mind concocted.
Sheesh

Why not?

Honestly, I can see a case for the Rastafarians, they aren't hurting anyone but themselves.

(Let's not forget, the RFRA was enacted because Native Americans kept getting fired for Peyote).

I mean, why not exclude Satanists from murder laws when they perform human sacrifices. If the "Sacrificee" agreed to it, what's the problem?

Just like if you agree to work for Hobby Lobby, you've totally agreed to live by the Religious principles of the Green about what to put in your hoo-ha.