Dems Big Push for 2014: Minimum Wage

[tinydancer]

Gee, you guys didn't care one way or another if unemployment benefits expired when you passed that budget deal. Your concern is disingenuous. And if you haven't noticed, Obamacare is the 800 lb gorilla in the room, not minimum wage.

As far as the elections go, the term "turkey shoot" comes to mind.

Are you really trying to claim that Democrats are responsible for the fact that unemployment benefit extensions were ended?

And....why are you trying to derail the thread by including those comments on Obamacare? Have you no respect for BDBoops's thread?

Yes. The democrats demand too much. They want an indefinite period where people can stay on unemployment. The problem is the states carry most of the burden.
Most states cannot afford the additional expense and cannot wait for the federal government to send reimbursement payments.
Many states have by legislation gone ahead and shortened the length of time a person can collect or have set lower limits on weekly benefits. Or both.

If you're running for office is it legal for me and my husband to send you cash?

And I'll work for free.

Why is it on boards we can talk and work things out and chow down on issues all for free but we send people to Washington or Ottawa or London and the list can go on.

I'm tired of these peoples games.

 

[Kosh]

This whole "raise the minimum wage" is just another talking point and propaganda.

How about "let's create more jobs"?

Raising the MW will do nothing put more people into the government welfare rolls. And that is exactly what the far left wants, so that is why they are for this.

 

[tinydancer]

Now just for fun I just figured it out. They don't have Connery and Angels and Demons as MODS

 

[tinydancer]

This whole "raise the minimum wage" is just another talking point and propaganda.

How about "let's create more jobs"?

Raising the MW will do nothing put more people into the government welfare rolls. And that is exactly what the far left wants, so that is why they are for this.

You have to address the issue of wages. But how can Washington determine this.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/30/u...rn-to-minimum-wage-as-2014-strategy.html?_r=0

The effort to take advantage of growing populism among voters in both parties is being coordinated by officials from the White House, labor unions and liberal advocacy groups.

In a series of strategy meetings and conference calls among them in recent weeks, they have focused on two levels: an effort to raise the federal minimum wage, which will be pushed by President Obama and congressional leaders, and a campaign to place state-level minimum wage proposals on the ballot in states with hotly contested congressional races.

With polls showing widespread support for an increase in the $7.25-per-hour federal minimum wage among both Republican and Democratic voters, top Democrats see not only a wedge issue that they hope will place Republican candidates in a difficult position, but also a tool with which to enlarge the electorate in a nonpresidential election, when turnout among minorities and youths typically drops off.

“It puts Republicans on the wrong side of an important value issue when it comes to fairness,” said Dan Pfeiffer, the president’s senior adviser. “You can make a very strong case that this will be a helpful issue for Democrats in 2014. But the goal here is to actually get it done. That’s why the president put it on the agenda.”

That's certainly going to make the 2014 elections interesting.

Dems want everyone who is not a Party insider working for minimum wage

 

[Kosh]

This whole "raise the minimum wage" is just another talking point and propaganda.

How about "let's create more jobs"?

Raising the MW will do nothing put more people into the government welfare rolls. And that is exactly what the far left wants, so that is why they are for this.

You have to address the issue of wages. But how can Washington determine this.

Bingo! North Dakota is paying some of the highest wages, is that because of any government mandate?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Raising the minimum wage is a job killer. Simple as that.

So, naturally, you can show where jobs were "killed" when the minimum wage has been raised in the past?

Here's a perfect example.
I own a hardware store. My profit margin is 10% over the course of a year.
I have two full time employees. Two of which have been with me for over ten years. They are my highest paid. Without them, I would have to spend much more time in the store. At that point I may as well have just three workers, all part time.
I also have 4 high school kids who work part time in the afternoons and on Saturdays.
The kids are paid $7.50 per hour.
Now, each of these kids works 24 hours per week.
Their wages and mandatory payments to state and federal government cost me about $12 per hour per employee.
So that's $1152 per week.
Now..Let's say the geniuses inside the Beltway mandate an increase to $10 per hour...
Now each of those workers will now cost me about $15 per hour. Now I am being forced to pay almost $300 more per week for those 4 workers.
Plus, since the wages of higher paid people are indexed to the min wage, I am compelled to boost the wages of the full time people. These are my key workers so I must keep them happy.
That additional cost will add another $100 to $200 per week...
So let's say my additional labor expense is $500 per week. Mind you, I have not paid myself yet. Ass it is, I take a small salary of $500 per week when I can. If business us slow, I make sure my workers are paid.
My store does $5,000 in gross sales per week on a yearly average. Not bad. Keeps the lights on and gives 5 people a place to earn a living and learn management skills. Yes, even the kids are required to learn billing, buying, and inventory.
Anyway, the $500 in additional labor costs represents a 20% increase.
It's also 10% of my gross sales.
So what am I to do? I need to find $500.
I will get it one way or another because I must maintain my 10% profit margin.
The easiest thing to do would be to raise my prices 10% across the board. Well, I could, but that may chase away some business. I would rather not cut hours of the part timers. I don't want to have these kids go elsewhere for work. I like them and need them.
So you tell me, " I demand a higher minimum wage" person.....as an expert in small business, what's your solution?

 

[Spoonman]

As long as democrats continue to try to infringe on our rights, i'll never vote for one. I always swore I would never be a party line voter. But the current democrats have pushed me to that

Yep. I won't be voting republican or democrat ever again. Neither represents my views so why waste a vote on them. Just gives them the false understanding I agree to them representing me. I like James Trafficant. He was a democrat.

You have a real problem down there now, the parties are ruled from insiders.

So even if you like and elect for example a really good blue dog democrat as soon as that soul gets inside the beltway you might as well mail your elected official years of vaseline.

Because he or she is going to get completely get fucked over.

the democratic party especially. its tow the line or else. at least in the republican party you have factions. you have multiple points of view and groups challenging each other. funny how the liberals continue to point to that a sign of weakness and make comment like if the republicans don't get their ac together and stop fighting each other they will never win an election. well it shows you where their heads are at. goose steppers to the end. and you see the attitude reflected in the party and its leadership. Get in line or we're doing this without you. we will not compromise. democratic leadership today is dictatorship. they have 0 interest in looking at alternatives. its 100% agenda, right or wrong

 

[Spoonman]

Raising the minimum wage is a job killer. Simple as that.

So, naturally, you can show where jobs were "killed" when the minimum wage has been raised in the past?

I can help you out there. its a little thing called outsourcing. when labor becomes to high to remain competitive, cheaper labor is sought, and available.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Raising the minimum wage is a job killer. Simple as that.

The minimum wage adjusted for inflation has been falling for 45 years.

Well if one uses the math, you'd be correct. The question one must ask is "so what?"
Less than 2% of American workers are paid minimum wage.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yup, my wonderful, all-inclusive insurance remains intact.

This does not preclude me wanting to see all americans with health insurance, especially those with pre-existing conditions.

And we wouldn't have to be addressing the minimum wage issue if Americans had gotten a cost-of-living increase every time Congress gave themselves one.

Congress is mainly a bunch of scum bags! Insurance for all Americans is not affordable; it is a ideologue's fantasy. Millions of Americans don't deserve anything - they can eat shit, and, die. Insuring pre-existing conditions without monetary conditions or the ability to flat out refuse, is not insurance at all! It is more entitlements. When a person thinks they are entitled to what others have - that is the impetus for theft, and robbery! Obama is both a thief, and a bandit!

Must be more of that "compassionate conservatism" we heard about.

Compassion is taking the time and effort to teach a person a valuable skill or trade.
Stick that in your sandwich and munch.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So, naturally, you can show where jobs were "killed" when the minimum wage has been raised in the past?

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Facts have a conservative bias.

No, actually they don't.

Raising the minimum wage had no discernible effect on employment or unemployment.

As for teenage employment or unemployment, I'd fully support a graduated minimum wage like they do in Australia.

Yes, they do. That is an undeniable truth.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So, naturally, you can show where jobs were "killed" when the minimum wage has been raised in the past?

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Facts have a conservative bias.

No, actually they don't.

Raising the minimum wage had no discernible effect on employment or unemployment.

As for teenage employment or unemployment, I'd fully support a graduated minimum wage like they do in Australia.

24 of those listed states had less than 1% annualized growth in jobs.
As for the Australian method....Here's an idea. Start you own business and pay the Australian wages. You'll find yourself in a non competitive situation.
And the message in business is 'compete or die'..

 

[thereisnospoon]

You must have an amusing idea of what 'fair' is.

Fair Market Value! Please enlighten me - what is your definition of fair?

Fair is what is good for the people.

Fair, for example, is having an educational system where every child gets an opportunity to go to school,

even if his parents cannot afford to pay 'fair market value'.

You would call that unfair. Fair to you would be, if you want your kids to go to school, you pay the 'fair market value' for an education, out of your own pocket,

and if you can't afford it, too bad. Your inability to afford it is part of what you would call the fairness of a market based system.

Wow...
All children are entitled a seat at their local public school.
If you are referring to higher education, the cost lies squarely at the feet of government.
With interference the federal government has removed all incentives for colleges and universities to control tuition prices.
States that permit illegals in state tuition drive up the cost of paying students. Again, the money HAS to come from somewhere.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Pretty smart move if the DEMS are willing to play the long game with it. The nation is ready for a higher FMW. The basic lie about it is that it will raise prices. Prices are rising anyway without the added benefit of additional pay for the workers so, at least, this will include that benefit.

Again, when you have a consumer based economy and wages for the consumers remain flat, you're going to have some economic problems since your engine isn't getting any fuel. At the very least, this will be fuel for the engine. I doubt the engine will go very far at the outset because a lot of the new monies will go toward debt reduction but after that, you'll see some real growth.

This is the dumbest post yet.

Let me paraphrase you, prices are already rising so let's help make them rise faster and higher.

Policymakers need to find ways to reduce the barriers to job creation instead of adding to them.

Raising the FMW will keep younger workers that primarily need these jobs from getting these jobs. Businesses will either eliminate positions or hire more experienced workers at the higher mandated wage.

What would you expect from a person who is hanging her hat on a 15 minute blip on the political radar from 5 years ago.
She's just stupid.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A recent recent study [pdf] by economists at the University of California examined every state and federal minimum wage increase over the past two decades and found that they did not lead to declines in teen employment. Their analysis included an in-depth examination of minimum wage increases during times of high unemployment—including the Great Recession of 2007-2009— and found that even in these difficult economic periods, increases in the minimum wage did not cause job loss or slow rehiring.

Do Minimum Wages Really Reduce Teen Employment? Accounting for Heterogeneity and Selectivity in State Panel Data

Bullshit....The chart you posted showed less than 1% growth in 24 states.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Fair is what is good for the people.

Fair, for example, is having an educational system where every child gets an opportunity to go to school,

even if his parents cannot afford to pay 'fair market value'.

You would call that unfair. Fair to you would be, if you want your kids to go to school, you pay the 'fair market value' for an education, out of your own pocket,

and if you can't afford it, too bad. Your inability to afford it is part of what you would call the fairness of a market based system.

Who the hell is unable to go to school?

Who the hell can't afford a free education?

No one, but that's only because we don't let the market decide who can or cannot afford school.

Government intervention in the so-called free market lets the poor get an education.

Is that unfair?

We've had public schools since before the Revolution!

 

[thereisnospoon]

Who the hell is unable to go to school?

Who the hell can't afford a free education?

No one, but that's only because we don't let the market decide who can or cannot afford school.

Government intervention in the so-called free market lets the poor get an education.

Is that unfair?

It's not fair that people that don't pay any taxes get protected by the same military us taxpayers get protected by.

I thought you liberals claim to tend to be more highly educated.
With an idiotic statement like that, I have my doubts.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Fair is what is good for the people.

Fair, for example, is having an educational system where every child gets an opportunity to go to school,

even if his parents cannot afford to pay 'fair market value'.

You would call that unfair. Fair to you would be, if you want your kids to go to school, you pay the 'fair market value' for an education, out of your own pocket,

and if you can't afford it, too bad. Your inability to afford it is part of what you would call the fairness of a market based system.

Who the hell is unable to go to school?

Who the hell can't afford a free education?

No one, but that's only because we don't let the market decide who can or cannot afford school.

Government intervention in the so-called free market lets the poor get an education.

Is that unfair?

The marketplace absolutely determines the path of public education as most systems are funded with property taxes, So theoretically affluent areas have better systems because there is more tax revenue to invest in education.
Of course that is in a perfect world. Wash DC spends $22k per year per student and cannot graduate more than 60% of it's high school students.
The City of Camden, NJ had THREE students pass the SAT's last year. That is in a system serving over 10,000 students. Camden's per student spending....$33,000 per student per year. There are 1,400 teachers in the Camden School system. One third of them are paid in excess of $100,000 per year. Over half make $75k....No accountability.
Horse to water. Purify water and flavor it with sugar cubes. Still can't make them drink.
Next.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why not a $1,000,000 minimum wage?