Did we really have to nuke Japan?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

How many times have you and I done this? You post the link to your source documents, I find the documents showing the Japanese cables intercepted by the U.S. showing them reaching out to the Soviet Union to end the conflict, thus making any invasion or nuclear bombing unnecessary, and you resort to quibbling over semantics.

No, Gunny's evidence says the Japs were not surrendering but rather offering the Soviets a ceasefire (which would have had no bearing on our prosecution of our conflict with Japan). I wonder why you must lie and distort the facts in order to make your case that America is "evil?" Could it be they just do not support your conclusion?

If you actually read the cables it shows that Japan was reaching out to the Soviet Union as an in-between for them to surrender to the United States conditionally. Conditions which were later met after the nuclear bombs, and which could have been agreed to beforehand so that there was no reason to vaporize those innocent civilians. Furthermore, the only one talking about America being evil is you. Was Truman evil? No doubt. Harry Truman was not America, however.

Really? In post #154 (about an hour ago) you stated "It's the reason that Eisenhower said that nuking them was unnecessary and evil" but Eisenhower never said that ... it was you attributing your "evil" to him.

Oh, I'm sorry, he used the word "awful." Regardless, you're still the only one talking about America being evil.

I see. So I point out at it was you who referred to America as "evil" (note the quotes in all my posts), you who attributed it to Eisenhower to give it weight, and now having been caught at your little game you simply claim you meant "awful" and try to dump your lie on me. My references to the term "evil" were all directly related to your bogus use of the term. Yours.

Again, Truman is not America, so provide a quote and link, which you failed to do, to me calling America evil for Truman's actions. That would be like me saying America is perverted because of Anthony Weiner. We can go so far as to say that other members of Truman's administration were evil, or that government in general is evil, but the idea that the entire country is evil, a large portion of which disagreed with Truman's nuking Japan, is incorrect.

I never claimed I meant awful. I attributed the word evil to him, but what he said was awful. So no, I didn't mean awful, I incorrectly said evil. That being said, this is about the most trivial of concerns.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The better question is, why didn't we nuke Stalin before the USSR had nukes themselves? He was 10x worse than Hitler.

Logistics and politics made that all but impossible. Patton wanted us to go to war with Stalin. He knew they were very vulnerable, and he knew they were no friend to the US. He knew much of our hardware was there, he knew we had mass production capabilities with all of our war factories in tact, and he knew the USSR army was very weakened.

However, they were still very capable, and unlike Japan they still had a very strong navy and they were very capable of defending Moscow. Which meant heavy American losses.

The bottom line is the moronic, American hating typical left wing piece of lying commie shit poster Kennedy thinks the country dropped the bombs on Japan for the hell of it. That is his pathetic disposition. The interesting thing (the pathetic thing) is how he actually thinks he is oh so smart with that type of thinking.

It is so fashionable and imperative for pieces of shit like him to belong to the little clubs they belong to, to blame America for everything. If he even attempted to compliment America and acted thankful in any away for all of the opportunities this country has given him, he would be shunned by his like minded commie losers. There are no bigger annoying sacks of shit than these pieces of commie propaganda pushers. They are nothing but pawns.

Hey Kennedy, you are a fucking moron. You are a fucking loser. You lost this debate a long time ago you unappreciative piece of lying shit.

In case I have not made myself clear enough......FUCK YOU.

You continue to embarrass yourself. The f-word isn't actually an argument, I'm afraid.

 

[Theowl32]

Some of those posters wouldn't even be alive because their grandfather died in a costly invasion and never met their grandmother. That's what happens when history is rewritten.

An invasion rendered unnecessary by the fact that Japan was attempting to surrender.

No they were not as evidenced by my already linked source documents all Japan offered was a ceasefire in place with a return to Japan of all land seized since the start of the war.

How many times have you and I done this? You post the link to your source documents, I find the documents showing the Japanese cables intercepted by the U.S. showing them reaching out to the Soviet Union to end the conflict, thus making any invasion or nuclear bombing unnecessary, and you resort to quibbling over semantics.

All that Japan offered was a ceasefire with a return to November 1941 start positions. You know it, I know it and anyone that reads the link knows it. That is not an offer to surrender.

Surrendering with conditions is still surrendering. Eisenhower and MacArthur understood that, why don't you?

You fucking ignorant commie gasbag.

 

[martybegan]

America is the greatest nation to ever exist. This is due to its foundation of limited government and maximum individual liberty.

However America has been poorly lead by a criminal gang known as politicians, for some time.

Truman was without a doubt a war criminal. Dropping those bombs on a defeated and defenseless nation, killing scores of women, children, and old people can only be considered a terrible crime against humanity.

And yet our bombing conventionally of Germany and Japan was OK somehow?

They were not defenseless, and they did not think they were defeated.

No...total war is ALWAYS wrong...and your jumping to conclusions based nothing, lacks intelligence.

1) English, try to type it.

2) your opinion on "total war" always being wrong is typical hippie utopianism. The fact is the atom bombs were no different than the incendiary attacks and the city bombing done in both theaters. The true different nature of atom bombs only came into being when the chance of complete societal destruction came into play, with the increase in yield and numbers.

 

[martybegan]

Some of those posters wouldn't even be alive because their grandfather died in a costly invasion and never met their grandmother. That's what happens when history is rewritten.

An invasion rendered unnecessary by the fact that Japan was attempting to surrender.

No they were not as evidenced by my already linked source documents all Japan offered was a ceasefire in place with a return to Japan of all land seized since the start of the war.

How many times have you and I done this? You post the link to your source documents, I find the documents showing the Japanese cables intercepted by the U.S. showing them reaching out to the Soviet Union to end the conflict, thus making any invasion or nuclear bombing unnecessary, and you resort to quibbling over semantics.

All that Japan offered was a ceasefire with a return to November 1941 start positions. You know it, I know it and anyone that reads the link knows it. That is not an offer to surrender.

Surrendering with conditions is still surrendering. Eisenhower and MacArthur understood that, why don't you?

That type of surrender is what got Europe WWII out of WWI. Their conditions of no occupation, no disarmament, war crimes to be tried by the Japanese themselves were no-go's.

 

[Theowl32]

The better question is, why didn't we nuke Stalin before the USSR had nukes themselves? He was 10x worse than Hitler.

Logistics and politics made that all but impossible. Patton wanted us to go to war with Stalin. He knew they were very vulnerable, and he knew they were no friend to the US. He knew much of our hardware was there, he knew we had mass production capabilities with all of our war factories in tact, and he knew the USSR army was very weakened.

However, they were still very capable, and unlike Japan they still had a very strong navy and they were very capable of defending Moscow. Which meant heavy American losses.

The bottom line is the moronic, American hating typical left wing piece of lying commie shit poster Kennedy thinks the country dropped the bombs on Japan for the hell of it. That is his pathetic disposition. The interesting thing (the pathetic thing) is how he actually thinks he is oh so smart with that type of thinking.

It is so fashionable and imperative for pieces of shit like him to belong to the little clubs they belong to, to blame America for everything. If he even attempted to compliment America and acted thankful in any away for all of the opportunities this country has given him, he would be shunned by his like minded commie losers. There are no bigger annoying sacks of shit than these pieces of commie propaganda pushers. They are nothing but pawns.

Hey Kennedy, you are a fucking moron. You are a fucking loser. You lost this debate a long time ago you unappreciative piece of lying shit.

In case I have not made myself clear enough......FUCK YOU.

You continue to embarrass yourself. The f-word isn't actually an argument, I'm afraid.

You are the one that thinks America and the USSR were allies in August of 1945. Which means you know nothing about the conference of yalta in February of 1945.
you are a liar. You are a fucking American hating scumbag who is ignorant as all fuck.

Keep on telling Truman dropped the bombs for no good reason other than for the fun of it

You lost a long time ago.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

An invasion rendered unnecessary by the fact that Japan was attempting to surrender.

Oh, is that what they were doing while we were dropping leaflets on them and begging them to avert disaster?

Yes, they were reaching out to the Soviet Union to surrender because they knew when the Soviets entered the Pacific theater they were done for. The U.S. had intercepted communications from the Japanese making this fact clear. It's the reason that Eisenhower said that nuking them was unnecessary and evil.

Some people have an irresistible need to make America seem "evil" by twisting history to satisfy that need.

Like future President Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of Allied forces?

Yes, just like Eisenhower. While the Supreme Commander didn't confront Truman with his "concerns" before the bomb was dropped, when election time came around they were on opposite sides of the fence. You're using campaign rhetoric to write history, just like Eisenhower used it against the opposite party.

Do you have evidence that Eisenhower knew about the bombing beforehand and that he said nothing? As for them being rivals on opposite sides of the fence, I think you may not know as much as you think. Truman was a big supporter of Eisenhower for President despite the fact that they disagreed on the use of the bombs, and tried to get him to run for the Democratic nomination. True they fell out later, but I can find no evidence to suggest that Ike was ever anything other than against nuking the Japanese.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

An invasion rendered unnecessary by the fact that Japan was attempting to surrender.

No they were not as evidenced by my already linked source documents all Japan offered was a ceasefire in place with a return to Japan of all land seized since the start of the war.

How many times have you and I done this? You post the link to your source documents, I find the documents showing the Japanese cables intercepted by the U.S. showing them reaching out to the Soviet Union to end the conflict, thus making any invasion or nuclear bombing unnecessary, and you resort to quibbling over semantics.

All that Japan offered was a ceasefire with a return to November 1941 start positions. You know it, I know it and anyone that reads the link knows it. That is not an offer to surrender.

Surrendering with conditions is still surrendering. Eisenhower and MacArthur understood that, why don't you?

That type of surrender is what got Europe WWII out of WWI. Their conditions of no occupation, no disarmament, war crimes to be tried by the Japanese themselves were no-go's.

That is literally the opposite of what happened in WWI. An unconditional surrender by Germany leading to the punishing Versailles Treaty whereby Germany takes full responsibility for the war, must pay the Allies, give up territory, etc.. etc... is what led to the rise of the National Socialists within Germany because they promised to return Germany to greatness.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The better question is, why didn't we nuke Stalin before the USSR had nukes themselves? He was 10x worse than Hitler.

Logistics and politics made that all but impossible. Patton wanted us to go to war with Stalin. He knew they were very vulnerable, and he knew they were no friend to the US. He knew much of our hardware was there, he knew we had mass production capabilities with all of our war factories in tact, and he knew the USSR army was very weakened.

However, they were still very capable, and unlike Japan they still had a very strong navy and they were very capable of defending Moscow. Which meant heavy American losses.

The bottom line is the moronic, American hating typical left wing piece of lying commie shit poster Kennedy thinks the country dropped the bombs on Japan for the hell of it. That is his pathetic disposition. The interesting thing (the pathetic thing) is how he actually thinks he is oh so smart with that type of thinking.

It is so fashionable and imperative for pieces of shit like him to belong to the little clubs they belong to, to blame America for everything. If he even attempted to compliment America and acted thankful in any away for all of the opportunities this country has given him, he would be shunned by his like minded commie losers. There are no bigger annoying sacks of shit than these pieces of commie propaganda pushers. They are nothing but pawns.

Hey Kennedy, you are a fucking moron. You are a fucking loser. You lost this debate a long time ago you unappreciative piece of lying shit.

In case I have not made myself clear enough......FUCK YOU.

You continue to embarrass yourself. The f-word isn't actually an argument, I'm afraid.

You are the one that thinks America and the USSR were allies in August of 1945. Which means you know nothing about the conference of yalta in February of 1945.
you are a liar. You are a fucking American hating scumbag who is ignorant as all fuck.

Keep on telling Truman dropped the bombs for no good reason other than for the fun of it

You lost a long time ago.

Did the USSR declare war on Japan?

Soviet Japanese War 1945 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Theowl32]

No they were not as evidenced by my already linked source documents all Japan offered was a ceasefire in place with a return to Japan of all land seized since the start of the war.

How many times have you and I done this? You post the link to your source documents, I find the documents showing the Japanese cables intercepted by the U.S. showing them reaching out to the Soviet Union to end the conflict, thus making any invasion or nuclear bombing unnecessary, and you resort to quibbling over semantics.

All that Japan offered was a ceasefire with a return to November 1941 start positions. You know it, I know it and anyone that reads the link knows it. That is not an offer to surrender.

Surrendering with conditions is still surrendering. Eisenhower and MacArthur understood that, why don't you?

That type of surrender is what got Europe WWII out of WWI. Their conditions of no occupation, no disarmament, war crimes to be tried by the Japanese themselves were no-go's.

That is literally the opposite of what happened in WWI. An unconditional surrender by Germany leading to the punishing Versailles Treaty whereby Germany takes full responsibility for the war, must pay the Allies, give up territory, etc.. etc... is what led to the rise of the National Socialists within Germany because they promised to return Germany to greatness.

True enough, but there was also no nation building after WWI which is what Woodrow Wilson was trying to get past in his 14 point proposal which the League of Nations did not honor.

You stupid ass.

Tell us all again how Truman dropped the bombs just for the hell of it. I want to laugh in your face again.

 

[gipper]

America is the greatest nation to ever exist. This is due to its foundation of limited government and maximum individual liberty.

However America has been poorly lead by a criminal gang known as politicians, for some time.

Truman was without a doubt a war criminal. Dropping those bombs on a defeated and defenseless nation, killing scores of women, children, and old people can only be considered a terrible crime against humanity.

Gipper, what you do not know is there was no real choice.

The USSR was starting to flex their muscles upon becoming a super power. The Cold War began with the USSR in February of 1945 at conference of yalta.

By August of 1945, it was clear Stalin wanted control of the trade routes in the Far East. The same routes Japan dominated for nearly half a century. Yes, oil was the product and it was the main reason Japan wanted to control all of those shipping lanes.

Stalin, by 1945 was clearly desiring to dominate the world. There was an obvious clandestine agreement happening between Japan and the USSR. Japan was being enticed to surrender to the USSR. At that time, the US and the USSR were no longer allies. History even writes it that way.

So, the choices for Truman and the US were dubious at best, and dropping the bombs was really the only sensible option to give you an idea of paradoxical options he had.

Either, get into a long drawn out war with the USSR over control of the region, allow the USSR to run roughshod over the US and allow Japan to surrender to Stalin after we wasted so many American lives, or drop the bombs and force Stalin to back off and thereby prevent a full scale hot war with the USSR which would have cost us another 50000 lives if not more.

Btw there was no way the American people could stomach another long drawn out war with what they thought at the time was our ally.

Those are your choices Gipper. What do you do? Do not give me a hippy peace love answer. This is Stalin we are talking about. A megalomaniac if there was ever one. What choice do you make? Allow the Japanese to surrender to the USSR after we fought them and she'd our blood? Just let that happen? You have any idea the political fall out? What do you do Gipper? There were only 3 choices. What do you do?

Wrong.

All Truman had to do was except the ONLY condition Japan requested for surrender, in July 1945. That condition was allowing the Emperor to stay on and not be prosecuted....which Truman did, but after he incinerated thousands of innocent Japanese with the two bombs.

Thinking that mass murder of innocents was justified in an effort to control Stalin, is abhorrent and immoral.

Stalin was certainly a dangerous and sick individual, but he could never have prevailed against the USA in 1945. He had no navy and little air force. He had a huge army, which he would gladly sacrifice for world dominion. However, he was smart enough to know he stood little chance against American firepower.

That said, he also had spies deeply embedded throughout the FDR/Truman administrations and had great success in duping FDR. He may have thought he could dupe Truman too, rather than war against the USA.

 

[Theowl32]

The better question is, why didn't we nuke Stalin before the USSR had nukes themselves? He was 10x worse than Hitler.

Logistics and politics made that all but impossible. Patton wanted us to go to war with Stalin. He knew they were very vulnerable, and he knew they were no friend to the US. He knew much of our hardware was there, he knew we had mass production capabilities with all of our war factories in tact, and he knew the USSR army was very weakened.

However, they were still very capable, and unlike Japan they still had a very strong navy and they were very capable of defending Moscow. Which meant heavy American losses.

The bottom line is the moronic, American hating typical left wing piece of lying commie shit poster Kennedy thinks the country dropped the bombs on Japan for the hell of it. That is his pathetic disposition. The interesting thing (the pathetic thing) is how he actually thinks he is oh so smart with that type of thinking.

It is so fashionable and imperative for pieces of shit like him to belong to the little clubs they belong to, to blame America for everything. If he even attempted to compliment America and acted thankful in any away for all of the opportunities this country has given him, he would be shunned by his like minded commie losers. There are no bigger annoying sacks of shit than these pieces of commie propaganda pushers. They are nothing but pawns.

Hey Kennedy, you are a fucking moron. You are a fucking loser. You lost this debate a long time ago you unappreciative piece of lying shit.

In case I have not made myself clear enough......FUCK YOU.

You continue to embarrass yourself. The f-word isn't actually an argument, I'm afraid.

You are the one that thinks America and the USSR were allies in August of 1945. Which means you know nothing about the conference of yalta in February of 1945.
you are a liar. You are a fucking American hating scumbag who is ignorant as all fuck.

Keep on telling Truman dropped the bombs for no good reason other than for the fun of it

You lost a long time ago.

Did the USSR declare war on Japan?

Soviet Japanese War 1945 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

August 8th 1945, USSR declares war on Japan. August 9th the second bomb is dropped.

USSR backs off of Japan and Japan surrenders UNCONDITIONALLY on August 15th.

Short time after, your heroes the rosenbergs betrayed the country, and the USSR became a nuclear power.

Fuck!!!!!

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

How many times have you and I done this? You post the link to your source documents, I find the documents showing the Japanese cables intercepted by the U.S. showing them reaching out to the Soviet Union to end the conflict, thus making any invasion or nuclear bombing unnecessary, and you resort to quibbling over semantics.

All that Japan offered was a ceasefire with a return to November 1941 start positions. You know it, I know it and anyone that reads the link knows it. That is not an offer to surrender.

Surrendering with conditions is still surrendering. Eisenhower and MacArthur understood that, why don't you?

That type of surrender is what got Europe WWII out of WWI. Their conditions of no occupation, no disarmament, war crimes to be tried by the Japanese themselves were no-go's.

That is literally the opposite of what happened in WWI. An unconditional surrender by Germany leading to the punishing Versailles Treaty whereby Germany takes full responsibility for the war, must pay the Allies, give up territory, etc.. etc... is what led to the rise of the National Socialists within Germany because they promised to return Germany to greatness.

True enough, but there was also no nation building after WWI which is what Woodrow Wilson was trying to get past in his 14 point proposal which the League of Nations did not honor.

You stupid ass.

Tell us all again how Truman dropped the bombs just for the hell of it. I want to laugh in your face again.

Which is irrelevant to the point. The point was that, completely opposite to what was claimed, the only conditions on Germany's surrender were actually punitive conditions against Germany.

As to the rest, you have yet to make a cogent point on the nuking of Japan, so until you do so my previous comments stand up just fine.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The better question is, why didn't we nuke Stalin before the USSR had nukes themselves? He was 10x worse than Hitler.

Logistics and politics made that all but impossible. Patton wanted us to go to war with Stalin. He knew they were very vulnerable, and he knew they were no friend to the US. He knew much of our hardware was there, he knew we had mass production capabilities with all of our war factories in tact, and he knew the USSR army was very weakened.

However, they were still very capable, and unlike Japan they still had a very strong navy and they were very capable of defending Moscow. Which meant heavy American losses.

The bottom line is the moronic, American hating typical left wing piece of lying commie shit poster Kennedy thinks the country dropped the bombs on Japan for the hell of it. That is his pathetic disposition. The interesting thing (the pathetic thing) is how he actually thinks he is oh so smart with that type of thinking.

It is so fashionable and imperative for pieces of shit like him to belong to the little clubs they belong to, to blame America for everything. If he even attempted to compliment America and acted thankful in any away for all of the opportunities this country has given him, he would be shunned by his like minded commie losers. There are no bigger annoying sacks of shit than these pieces of commie propaganda pushers. They are nothing but pawns.

Hey Kennedy, you are a fucking moron. You are a fucking loser. You lost this debate a long time ago you unappreciative piece of lying shit.

In case I have not made myself clear enough......FUCK YOU.

You continue to embarrass yourself. The f-word isn't actually an argument, I'm afraid.

You are the one that thinks America and the USSR were allies in August of 1945. Which means you know nothing about the conference of yalta in February of 1945.
you are a liar. You are a fucking American hating scumbag who is ignorant as all fuck.

Keep on telling Truman dropped the bombs for no good reason other than for the fun of it

You lost a long time ago.

Did the USSR declare war on Japan?

Soviet Japanese War 1945 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

August 8th 1945, USSR declares war on Japan. August 9th the second bomb is dropped.

USSR backs off of Japan and Japan surrenders UNCONDITIONALLY on August 15th.

Short time after, your heroes the rosenbergs betrayed the country, and the USSR became a nuclear power.

Fuck!!!!!

In other words, the Soviet Union entered the Pacific Theater against Japan on the side of the U.S.

 

[Theowl32]

America is the greatest nation to ever exist. This is due to its foundation of limited government and maximum individual liberty.

However America has been poorly lead by a criminal gang known as politicians, for some time.

Truman was without a doubt a war criminal. Dropping those bombs on a defeated and defenseless nation, killing scores of women, children, and old people can only be considered a terrible crime against humanity.

Gipper, what you do not know is there was no real choice.

The USSR was starting to flex their muscles upon becoming a super power. The Cold War began with the USSR in February of 1945 at conference of yalta.

By August of 1945, it was clear Stalin wanted control of the trade routes in the Far East. The same routes Japan dominated for nearly half a century. Yes, oil was the product and it was the main reason Japan wanted to control all of those shipping lanes.

Stalin, by 1945 was clearly desiring to dominate the world. There was an obvious clandestine agreement happening between Japan and the USSR. Japan was being enticed to surrender to the USSR. At that time, the US and the USSR were no longer allies. History even writes it that way.

So, the choices for Truman and the US were dubious at best, and dropping the bombs was really the only sensible option to give you an idea of paradoxical options he had.

Either, get into a long drawn out war with the USSR over control of the region, allow the USSR to run roughshod over the US and allow Japan to surrender to Stalin after we wasted so many American lives, or drop the bombs and force Stalin to back off and thereby prevent a full scale hot war with the USSR which would have cost us another 50000 lives if not more.

Btw there was no way the American people could stomach another long drawn out war with what they thought at the time was our ally.

Those are your choices Gipper. What do you do? Do not give me a hippy peace love answer. This is Stalin we are talking about. A megalomaniac if there was ever one. What choice do you make? Allow the Japanese to surrender to the USSR after we fought them and she'd our blood? Just let that happen? You have any idea the political fall out? What do you do Gipper? There were only 3 choices. What do you do?

Wrong.

All Truman had to do was except the ONLY condition Japan requested for surrender, in July 1945. That condition was allowing the Emperor to stay on and not be prosecuted....which Truman did, but after he incinerated thousands of innocent Japanese with the two bombs.

Thinking that mass murder of innocents was justified in an effort to control Stalin, is abhorrent and immoral.

Stalin was certainly a dangerous and sick individual, but he could never have prevailed against the USA in 1945. He had no navy and little air force. He had a huge army, which he would gladly sacrifice for world dominion. However, he was smart enough to know he stood little chance against American firepower.

That said, he also had spies deeply embedded throughout the FDR/Truman administrations and had great success in duping FDR. He may have thought he could dupe Truman too, rather than war against the USA.

America is the greatest nation to ever exist. This is due to its foundation of limited government and maximum individual liberty.

However America has been poorly lead by a criminal gang known as politicians, for some time.

Truman was without a doubt a war criminal. Dropping those bombs on a defeated and defenseless nation, killing scores of women, children, and old people can only be considered a terrible crime against humanity.

Gipper, what you do not know is there was no real choice.

The USSR was starting to flex their muscles upon becoming a super power. The Cold War began with the USSR in February of 1945 at conference of yalta.

By August of 1945, it was clear Stalin wanted control of the trade routes in the Far East. The same routes Japan dominated for nearly half a century. Yes, oil was the product and it was the main reason Japan wanted to control all of those shipping lanes.

Stalin, by 1945 was clearly desiring to dominate the world. There was an obvious clandestine agreement happening between Japan and the USSR. Japan was being enticed to surrender to the USSR. At that time, the US and the USSR were no longer allies. History even writes it that way.

So, the choices for Truman and the US were dubious at best, and dropping the bombs was really the only sensible option to give you an idea of paradoxical options he had.

Either, get into a long drawn out war with the USSR over control of the region, allow the USSR to run roughshod over the US and allow Japan to surrender to Stalin after we wasted so many American lives, or drop the bombs and force Stalin to back off and thereby prevent a full scale hot war with the USSR which would have cost us another 50000 lives if not more.

Btw there was no way the American people could stomach another long drawn out war with what they thought at the time was our ally.

Those are your choices Gipper. What do you do? Do not give me a hippy peace love answer. This is Stalin we are talking about. A megalomaniac if there was ever one. What choice do you make? Allow the Japanese to surrender to the USSR after we fought them and she'd our blood? Just let that happen? You have any idea the political fall out? What do you do Gipper? There were only 3 choices. What do you do?

Wrong.

All Truman had to do was except the ONLY condition Japan requested for surrender, in July 1945. That condition was allowing the Emperor to stay on and not be prosecuted....which Truman did, but after he incinerated thousands of innocent Japanese with the two bombs.

Thinking that mass murder of innocents was justified in an effort to control Stalin, is abhorrent and immoral.

Stalin was certainly a dangerous and sick individual, but he could never have prevailed against the USA in 1945. He had no navy and little air force. He had a huge army, which he would gladly sacrifice for world dominion. However, he was smart enough to know he stood little chance against American firepower.

That said, he also had spies deeply embedded throughout the FDR/Truman administrations and had great success in duping FDR. He may have thought he could dupe Truman too, rather than war against the USA.

The USSR had a navy. They also a a working Air Force. They were weakened greatly and that was the reason Patton (perhaps rightfully so) wanted to take the war to Stalin right then.

However, politically that would not have sold to the American people who had just celebrated the end of WWII.

You are saying you would have conducted a hot war with the USSR? Which Stalin was basically pushing.

Is that what you would have opted for?

 

[Theowl32]

All that Japan offered was a ceasefire with a return to November 1941 start positions. You know it, I know it and anyone that reads the link knows it. That is not an offer to surrender.

Surrendering with conditions is still surrendering. Eisenhower and MacArthur understood that, why don't you?

That type of surrender is what got Europe WWII out of WWI. Their conditions of no occupation, no disarmament, war crimes to be tried by the Japanese themselves were no-go's.

That is literally the opposite of what happened in WWI. An unconditional surrender by Germany leading to the punishing Versailles Treaty whereby Germany takes full responsibility for the war, must pay the Allies, give up territory, etc.. etc... is what led to the rise of the National Socialists within Germany because they promised to return Germany to greatness.

True enough, but there was also no nation building after WWI which is what Woodrow Wilson was trying to get past in his 14 point proposal which the League of Nations did not honor.

You stupid ass.

Tell us all again how Truman dropped the bombs just for the hell of it. I want to laugh in your face again.

Which is irrelevant to the point. The point was that, completely opposite to what was claimed, the only conditions on Germany's surrender were actually punitive conditions against Germany.

As to the rest, you have yet to make a cogent point on the nuking of Japan, so until you do so my previous comments stand up just fine.

The USSR was no longer our ally in August of 1945. They were bullying their way into taking over the area by getting Japan to surrender to them. The USSR was not our ally!

So it was either allow the USSR to take Japan with no resistance from us, risk an all out hot war with Stalin or drop the bombs. Thereby forcing Stalin to back off.


Fuck!!!

 

[DriftingSand]

I don't buy it.

They no longer had a navy or air force to project their armies.

A simple food and trade embargo would have sufficed (enforced by our unchallenged navy).

There was no reason to even attack the Japanese mainland.

I think it was a bunch of sick and demented fucks that wanted to demonstrate the power of their new toy to the communist USSR.

Admiral William Leahy – the highest ranking member of the U.S. military from 1942 until retiring in 1949, who was the first de facto Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and who was at the center of all major American military decisions in World War II – wrote (pg. 441):

It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

This country is being run by murderous sociopaths.

I voted "no." I think we should have targeted military targets.

 

[Theowl32]

Logistics and politics made that all but impossible. Patton wanted us to go to war with Stalin. He knew they were very vulnerable, and he knew they were no friend to the US. He knew much of our hardware was there, he knew we had mass production capabilities with all of our war factories in tact, and he knew the USSR army was very weakened.

However, they were still very capable, and unlike Japan they still had a very strong navy and they were very capable of defending Moscow. Which meant heavy American losses.

The bottom line is the moronic, American hating typical left wing piece of lying commie shit poster Kennedy thinks the country dropped the bombs on Japan for the hell of it. That is his pathetic disposition. The interesting thing (the pathetic thing) is how he actually thinks he is oh so smart with that type of thinking.

It is so fashionable and imperative for pieces of shit like him to belong to the little clubs they belong to, to blame America for everything. If he even attempted to compliment America and acted thankful in any away for all of the opportunities this country has given him, he would be shunned by his like minded commie losers. There are no bigger annoying sacks of shit than these pieces of commie propaganda pushers. They are nothing but pawns.

Hey Kennedy, you are a fucking moron. You are a fucking loser. You lost this debate a long time ago you unappreciative piece of lying shit.

In case I have not made myself clear enough......FUCK YOU.

You continue to embarrass yourself. The f-word isn't actually an argument, I'm afraid.

You are the one that thinks America and the USSR were allies in August of 1945. Which means you know nothing about the conference of yalta in February of 1945.
you are a liar. You are a fucking American hating scumbag who is ignorant as all fuck.

Keep on telling Truman dropped the bombs for no good reason other than for the fun of it

You lost a long time ago.

Did the USSR declare war on Japan?

Soviet Japanese War 1945 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

August 8th 1945, USSR declares war on Japan. August 9th the second bomb is dropped.

USSR backs off of Japan and Japan surrenders UNCONDITIONALLY on August 15th.

Short time after, your heroes the rosenbergs betrayed the country, and the USSR became a nuclear power.

Fuck!!!!!

In other words, the Soviet Union entered the Pacific Theater against Japan on the side of the U.S.

Btw, you have not come close to proving Truman dropped the bombs for the hell of it. You trying to sell that is just that fucking ignorant. You have not come close.

 

[rightwinger]

We had an atomic bomb....nobody else did

To demonstrate its power did we have to drop it over a populated area? We could have dropped one as a "demo" and then informed the Japanese that they had one week to accept an unconditional surrender or we would begin targeting their cities

Even if you can justify Hiroshima, how do you justify Nagasaki three days later? Why not enter intense negotiations after Hiroshima with the understanding we have an unlimited supply of additional bombs (even though we didn't)

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You continue to embarrass yourself. The f-word isn't actually an argument, I'm afraid.

You are the one that thinks America and the USSR were allies in August of 1945. Which means you know nothing about the conference of yalta in February of 1945.
you are a liar. You are a fucking American hating scumbag who is ignorant as all fuck.

Keep on telling Truman dropped the bombs for no good reason other than for the fun of it

You lost a long time ago.

Did the USSR declare war on Japan?

Soviet Japanese War 1945 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

August 8th 1945, USSR declares war on Japan. August 9th the second bomb is dropped.

USSR backs off of Japan and Japan surrenders UNCONDITIONALLY on August 15th.

Short time after, your heroes the rosenbergs betrayed the country, and the USSR became a nuclear power.

Fuck!!!!!

In other words, the Soviet Union entered the Pacific Theater against Japan on the side of the U.S.

Btw, you have not come close to proving Truman dropped the bombs for the hell of it. You trying to sell that is just that fucking ignorant. You have not come close.

I've made an effective case. You've responded with the same basic argument of a toddler sure that they're right. Your argument boils down to, "NUH UH!!!"