Do gays choose to be gay? How can we refuse equal rights?

[Redfish]

Gay people are unable to marry a person of the same sex. That's what they're unable to do, and that's what they're fighting to achieve.

I can care less what other people do with their lives so long as it doesn't hurt others; not sure why others are so concerned.

We should live in a society with less rules and regulations vs. more.

Small gov't is the most noble way to run things because it empowers the individual.


.

Gays should accept that marriage is not a institution applicable to their situation. Accept civil unions with equal rights that marriage provides. You get your rights ...we get to keep the sanctity of marriage.

They don't want that because we are not forced to except their lifestyle

exactly, that is what this is all about, but the gays will never admit that.

 

[KevinWestern]

First off I have never seen a law or statute that prevents gay people from marrying people of the same sex. There isn't one.

Interesting...

Second, many states have voted in constitutional provisions defining marriage as one man, one woman. That is small government in action.

...Because your first and second points seem to contradict one another, lol.

Third, you want to take that power away from voting individuals and allow the central gov't to dictate what should and shouldn't be the law.
That makes you a big ole hypocrite.

When did I say that I want the central gov't to dictate what should and shouldn't be state law? Don't appreciate being called a hypocrite on a completely unsubstantiated claim.

I'm fine with States voting on the issue, and what I'm arguing is my own personal opinion on what the states (or whatever voting body) should elect.

"Big Gov't" not only refers to the actual size (and location - federal vs local) of the gov't but also the style of governing. If a local gov't assigns curfews, restricts speech, controls eating habits, and prohibits dancing, it's fair to say that's Big Gov't - right?



.

 

[Seawytch]

Thats is the biggest lie yet? You gays want more than being treated equal, you want to be trated as special. Go ahead and try to deny it.

So...to be allowed to marry as straight people already do is.....special. How so? Please explain how to be allowed to do what other law-abiding, tax-paying citizens are allowed to do is somehow "special".

You were already allowed to "marry as straight people do"

Just like blacks and whites could marry their own race, hence it was argued by bigots that there was no discrimination.

You will also be able to marry someone of the same sex, therefore no "special right".

 

[The Rabbi]

First off I have never seen a law or statute that prevents gay people from marrying people of the same sex. There isn't one.

Interesting...

Second, many states have voted in constitutional provisions defining marriage as one man, one woman. That is small government in action.

...Because your first and second points seem to contradict one another, lol.

Third, you want to take that power away from voting individuals and allow the central gov't to dictate what should and shouldn't be the law.
That makes you a big ole hypocrite.

When did I say that I want the central gov't to dictate what should and shouldn't be state law? Don't appreciate being called a hypocrite on a completely unsubstantiated claim.

I'm fine with States voting on the issue, and what I'm arguing is my own personal opinion on what the states (or whatever voting body) should elect.

"Big Gov't" not only refers to the actual size (and location - federal vs local) of the gov't but also the style of governing. If a local gov't assigns curfews, restricts speech, controls eating habits, and prohibits dancing, I'll consider that an example of Big Gov't.

The first and second points are not contradictory. Please show me one state that bans gay marriage. There isn't one.
So basically any gov't that imposes things you don't like is "big government"? Really?

 

[Redfish]

So...to be allowed to marry as straight people already do is.....special. How so? Please explain how to be allowed to do what other law-abiding, tax-paying citizens are allowed to do is somehow "special".

You were already allowed to "marry as straight people do"

Just like blacks and whites could marry their own race, hence it was argued by bigots that there was no discrimination.

You will also be able to marry someone of the same sex, therefore no "special right".

you better stay out there in the land of fruits and nuts because the majority of americans do not see gay hook-ups as marriage.

 

[The Rabbi]

So...to be allowed to marry as straight people already do is.....special. How so? Please explain how to be allowed to do what other law-abiding, tax-paying citizens are allowed to do is somehow "special".

You were already allowed to "marry as straight people do"

Just like blacks and whites could marry their own race, hence it was argued by bigots that there was no discrimination.

You will also be able to marry someone of the same sex, therefore no "special right".

Gays and straights are not different races.

Now it's time for you to chime in with "We've been winning court battles so it's only a matter of time." Those seem to be your only two points in any debate on this.

 

[P@triot]

I agree! But Dumbocrats are demanding MORE government and demanding that government jump into bed with them....

Well, I agree a lot of Dems do argue for more gov't in many respects (but so do the Repubs, don't forget - ie Patriot Act, NDAA 2013)...

But when it comes to marriage, it's the Republicans who want to restrict our options as adult citizens.

More options:
Adult can choose to marry either a same sex or opposite sex partner.

Less options:
Adult can only choose to marry an opposite sex partner.

.

Well that's a nice twist my friend, but here is the reality:

Less government:
Marriage is between a man and a woman - period

More government:
Take millions and millions of tax payers dollars to run DOMA all the way through the Supreme Court. Then have the government create regulations in accordance with Supreme Court ruling. Then spend millions to enforce. Then have private industry spend millions complying with government enforcement.

You're "choice" scenario is completely nonsensical. They ALWAYS had the "choice" to join who ever they wanted in union. But (like everything else in life), they want government to join in their bedroom so they can bilk the government gravy train for every drop....

 

[P@triot]

So...to be allowed to marry as straight people already do is.....special. How so? Please explain how to be allowed to do what other law-abiding, tax-paying citizens are allowed to do is somehow "special".

You were already allowed to "marry as straight people do"

Just like blacks and whites could marry their own race, hence it was argued by bigots that there was no discrimination.

You will also be able to marry someone of the same sex, therefore no "special right".

We ALREADY had marriage. You wanted SPECIAL rights for YOU. Sorry, but telling me I can now marry same sex is weak since I am already married and was already complying with the laws as they existed. It was YOU who wanted SPECIAL rights.

Furthermore, your blacks & whites is just as nonsensical. Blacks & whites can create offspring genius. YOU can't (no matter how much bullshit you come back with about how you "had children"). The fact is, you and your S.O. did NOT "have" children because neither one of you are capable of producing the sperm necessary in the equation. One of you and someone else (a male) had children together.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Anyone see Stephen Colbert last night? They went to Vicco, Kentucky. Smallest town in KY. They have a gay mayor, and just passed a "fairness ordinance" regarding gays. The townsfolk were what you'd expect. Rural, country, deep drawl accents. But surprisingly- or not- they were mostly all in favor of it, and supportive of their mayor. One guy....who was a bit slow speaking and country, nothing wrong with that- put it so clearly and simple: "If God made 'em that way, how can the Bible say its wrong? Why'd he make 'em that way?" It was the best argument I've heard.

So, let me ask, did God make them that way? If so, how can He, or we, judge them?

Now, lets say you are gonna argue God did NOT make them that way. That they CHOSE. That would mean the rest of use CHOSE to be attracted to women, right? Wouldn't that suggest that gays and straights- like all you right wingers who oppose gay rights- have a 50/50 attraction to men/women, and you too just chose the opposite sex?

And as for God...does he make us or not? If our rights cannot be granted by the government, but instead, are "God given"....................like the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms..........and God makes us, then why is it that God made some humans to be born in a country where His rights are granted, but condemns other humans he makes to be born in places like N Korea that deny the rights that are God given by Him?

Unless you want to argue God created the world, but, then stepped away and let nature and humanity run it's course, and therefore, doesn't interfere with genetic deformities, mental illness, birth defects, OR things like a human being born with a sexual attraction to the same sex.

It doesn't really matter if they choose it or not.

 

[g5000]

Tell me again what rights gay people are denied?

Is it something Obabble thought up to get your vote?

Gay people are unable to marry a person of the same sex. That's what they're unable to do, and that's what they're fighting to achieve.

I can care less what other people do with their lives so long as it doesn't hurt others; not sure why others are so concerned.

We should live in a society with less rules and regulations vs. more.

Small gov't is the most noble way to run things because it empowers the individual.


.

Gays should accept that marriage is not a institution applicable to their situation. Accept civil unions with equal rights that marriage provides. You get your rights ...we get to keep the sanctity of marriage.

"Separate but equal". You guys just keep regressing further and further.

Gay unions still do not receive the same cash and prizes straight unions do. When will that ever sink into your head and the heads of your fellow klansmen?

 

[KevinWestern]

Well that's a nice twist my friend, but here is the reality:

Less government:
Marriage is between a man and a woman - period

More government:
Take millions and millions of tax payers dollars to run DOMA all the way through the Supreme Court. Then have the government create regulations in accordance with Supreme Court ruling. Then spend millions to enforce. Then have private industry spend millions complying with government enforcement.

You're "choice" scenario is completely nonsensical. They ALWAYS had the "choice" to join who ever they wanted in union. But (like everything else in life), they want government to join in their bedroom so they can bilk the government gravy train for every drop....

Rott- I don't agree with you here. Let's break it down to the simplest level.

Which adult has more freedoms and options?

Adult A who lives in a society where he/she can marry either an opposite OR same sex partner under law.

or

Adult B who lives in a society where he/she can marry only an opposite sex partner under law.

Obviously, (at it's most basic level) Adult B has less options when it comes to marriage - right?

 

[Seawytch]

You were already allowed to "marry as straight people do"

Just like blacks and whites could marry their own race, hence it was argued by bigots that there was no discrimination.

You will also be able to marry someone of the same sex, therefore no "special right".

you better stay out there in the land of fruits and nuts because the majority of americans do not see gay hook-ups as marriage.

You might want to check the polls again. 53% approve of same-sex marriage.

 

[Seawytch]

Gay people are unable to marry a person of the same sex. That's what they're unable to do, and that's what they're fighting to achieve.

I can care less what other people do with their lives so long as it doesn't hurt others; not sure why others are so concerned.

We should live in a society with less rules and regulations vs. more.

Small gov't is the most noble way to run things because it empowers the individual.


.

Gays should accept that marriage is not a institution applicable to their situation. Accept civil unions with equal rights that marriage provides. You get your rights ...we get to keep the sanctity of marriage.

"Separate but equal". You guys just keep regressing further and further.

Gay unions still do not receive the same cash and prizes straight unions do. When will that ever sink into your head and the heads of your fellow klansmen?

Yup...change the name if you want to...for everyone.

 

[Seawytch]

You were already allowed to "marry as straight people do"

Just like blacks and whites could marry their own race, hence it was argued by bigots that there was no discrimination.

You will also be able to marry someone of the same sex, therefore no "special right".

We ALREADY had marriage. You wanted SPECIAL rights for YOU. Sorry, but telling me I can now marry same sex is weak since I am already married and was already complying with the laws as they existed. It was YOU who wanted SPECIAL rights.

Furthermore, your blacks & whites is just as nonsensical. Blacks & whites can create offspring genius. YOU can't (no matter how much bullshit you come back with about how you "had children"). The fact is, you and your S.O. did NOT "have" children because neither one of you are capable of producing the sperm necessary in the equation. One of you and someone else (a male) had children together.

No Rotty, I want it for you too. See the difference? Children are not a prerequisite for civil marriage.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well that's a nice twist my friend, but here is the reality:

Less government:
Marriage is between a man and a woman - period

More government:
Take millions and millions of tax payers dollars to run DOMA all the way through the Supreme Court. Then have the government create regulations in accordance with Supreme Court ruling. Then spend millions to enforce. Then have private industry spend millions complying with government enforcement.

You're "choice" scenario is completely nonsensical. They ALWAYS had the "choice" to join who ever they wanted in union. But (like everything else in life), they want government to join in their bedroom so they can bilk the government gravy train for every drop....

Rott- I don't agree with you here. Let's break it down to the simplest level.

Which adult has more freedoms and options?

Adult A who lives in a society where he/she can marry either an opposite OR same sex partner under law.

or

Adult B who lives in a society where he/she can marry only an opposite sex partner under law.

Obviously, (at it's most basic level) Adult B has less options when it comes to marriage - right?

Why stop there?
Who has more freedom? Adult A who can murder anyone who wants, or Adult B who can't?

 

[deltex1]

"Separate but equal". You guys just keep regressing further and further.



No...separate because different.

 

[The Rabbi]

Just like blacks and whites could marry their own race, hence it was argued by bigots that there was no discrimination.

You will also be able to marry someone of the same sex, therefore no "special right".

you better stay out there in the land of fruits and nuts because the majority of americans do not see gay hook-ups as marriage.

You might want to check the polls again. 53% approve of same-sex marriage.

Darn did I call it or what?
Yes, you have two arguments:
Gays are really black people
We're winning the public relations war.

Neither of those is true. You have no arguments.

 

[P@triot]

Gay people are unable to marry a person of the same sex. That's what they're unable to do, and that's what they're fighting to achieve.

I can care less what other people do with their lives so long as it doesn't hurt others; not sure why others are so concerned.

We should live in a society with less rules and regulations vs. more.

Small gov't is the most noble way to run things because it empowers the individual.


.

Gays should accept that marriage is not a institution applicable to their situation. Accept civil unions with equal rights that marriage provides. You get your rights ...we get to keep the sanctity of marriage.

"Separate but equal". You guys just keep regressing further and further.

Gay unions still do not receive the same cash and prizes straight unions do. When will that ever sink into your head and the heads of your fellow klansmen?

To quote the Hokey-Pokey... "that's what it's all about"

They are NOT the same as us, but they want the same results as us...???

Trying to make that argument is like me saying "I'm not the same as Lawrence Taylor, but I should get paid the same as Lawrence Taylor, I should get EQUAL playing time as Lawrence Taylor, and I should go into the Hall of Fame like Lawrence Taylor".

 

[bodecea]

Tell me again what rights gay people are denied?

Is it something Obabble thought up to get your vote?

The 1000 + rights, privileges and benefits that are afforded straight people by just one civil marriage license. Denied based on gender discrimination.

 

[KevinWestern]

Why stop there?
Who has more freedom? Adult A who can murder anyone who wants, or Adult B who can't?

Obviously, we are not going to allow freedoms that result in substantial personal harm to other individuals within the society. This is why things like stealing, rape, etc are illegal (and why we're not considering those).

Are you being intentionally ignorant? Thought you were brighter than that Rabbi - really..