Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

[sealybobo]

Italians had a choice

They were the ones driving the nails in

You must not have read the Gospels

Due to the Gospels' portrayal of Pilate as reluctant to execute Jesus.....

In texts from the Eastern Roman Empire, Pilate was portrayed as a positive figure. He and his wife are portrayed as Christian converts and sometimes martyrs. In Western Christian texts, he was instead portrayed as a negative figure and villain

Positive traditions about Pilate are frequent in Eastern Christianity, particularly in Egypt and Ethiopia, whereas negative traditions predominate in Western and Byzantine Christianity.[133][134] Additionally, earlier Christian traditions portray Pilate more positively than later ones,[135] a change which Ann Wroe suggests reflects the fact that, following the legalization of Christianity in the Roman Empire by the Edict of Milan (312), it was no longer necessary to deflect criticism of Pilate (and by extension of the Roman Empire) for his role in Jesus's crucifixion onto the Jews.[136] Bart Ehrman, on the other hand, argues that the tendency in the Early Church to exonerate Pilate and blame the Jews prior to this time reflects an increasing "anti-Judaism" among Early Christians.[137] The earliest attestation of a positive tradition about Pilate comes from the late first-, early second-century Christian author Tertullian, who, claiming to have seen Pilate's report to Tiberius, states Pilate had "become already a Christian in his conscience."

 

[sealybobo]

I watched "The Passion of Christ," and I do not believe that "The Jews" are responsible for the crucifixion.

Some Jews called for the crucifixion. They did not represent all Jews for all time, All Jews at the time, and even all Jews in Jerusalem at the time. They did not even represent most Jews in Jerusalem at the time.

For reasons I have difficulty understanding, hostility to Jews is increasing in the United States. Because the vast majority of Jews are good people those who hate then need to invent excuses.

Positive traditions about Pilate are frequent in Eastern Christianity, particularly in Egypt and Ethiopia, whereas negative traditions predominate in Western and Byzantine Christianity. Additionally, earlier Christian traditions portray Pilate more positively than later ones, a change which reflects the fact that, following the legalization of Christianity in the Roman Empire by the Edict of Milan, it was no longer necessary to deflect criticism of Pilate (and by extension of the Roman Empire) for his role in Jesus's crucifixion onto the Jews.

....on the other hand, argues that the tendency in the Early Church to exonerate Pilate and blame the Jews prior to this time reflects an increasing "anti-Judaism" among Early Christians. The earliest attestation of a positive tradition about Pilate comes from the late first-, early second-century Christian author Tertullian, who, claiming to have seen Pilate's report to Tiberius, states Pilate had "become already a Christian in his conscience."

Pontius Pilate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This has been debated from the minute Christianity was being invented.

 

[buttercup]

At the time-----the only reason a person got crucified was for SEDITION AGAINST ROME.
If a jew murdered a jew----that would not be an
issue for the Romans---nor would a jew robbing
another jew. You got the name of the roman
that Barabas "murdered" As to "murder"---the
jellybean story line is that THE JEWS MURDERED
JESUS BY FORCING THE ROMANS TO CRUCIFY JESUS-------that story is even sillier. What crime
did Jesus commit against Rome (this is a quiz--there is an answer)

You didn't answer my question. I'm still wondering why you used the word "murder" when speaking about the death penalty in Barabbas' case.

As for Jesus, He laid down His own life willingly. (John 10:18) This topic has been discussed many times before. Christians don't blame any one group. Anyone who has ever sinned is why Jesus died, which includes you, me, and people from every nation and people group in the world.

 

[irosie91]

You didn't answer my question. I'm still wondering why you used the word "murder" when speaking about the death penalty in Barabbas' case.

As for Jesus, He laid down His own life willingly. (John 10:18) This topic has been discussed many times before. Christians don't blame any one group. Anyone who has ever sinned is why Jesus died, which includes you, me, and people from every nation and people group in the world.

I used the word murder correctly. The Romans
MURDERED tens of thousands of Jews by crucifixion for rebelling against Roman rule----<< that is
documented history. For Constantine---rebellion
against ROMAN RULE was the BIG TIME SIN

 

[irosie91]

the logical answer is NO.

Surada laughed even though she IMAGINES
that she knows all about Judaism. For the record--
crucifixion is absolutely prohibited in Jewish law.
Somehow --the "PHARISEES" got blamed in Surada's imagined history----the Pharisees were
absolutely dead set AGAINST crucifixion and
almost all execution

 

[buttercup]

I used the word murder correctly. The Romans
MURDERED tens of thousands of Jews by crucifixion for rebelling against Roman rule----<< that is
documented history. For Constantine---rebellion
against ROMAN RULE was the BIG TIME SIN

So a known murderer and seditionist who receives the death penalty was "murdered"? (I was speaking about a specific person, so don't change the topic into other cases, thanks.)

It sure sounds like you have your own definition for the word murder, and it sounds like you equate the death penalty with murder.

 

[irosie91]

So a known murderer and seditionist who receives the death penalty was "murdered"? (I was speaking about a specific person, so don't change the topic into other cases, thanks.)

It sure sounds like you have your own definition for the word murder, and it sounds like you equate the death penalty with murder.

You are describing Roman perception of crime. According to ROMAN LAW----Jesus committed a
CAPITAL CRIME---you accept that too? Even the
NT clearly states that the SANHEDRIN could not
convict Jesus of ANYTHING (that is according to
Jewish law) Do you have any notion as to what the crime Jesus committed WAS? It's actually right there in the NT---his ONE CAPITAL CRIME

 

[Lisa558]

I used the word murder correctly. The Romans
MURDERED tens of thousands of Jews by crucifixion for rebelling against Roman rule----<< that is
documented history. For Constantine---rebellion
against ROMAN RULE was the BIG TIME SIN

This is true. Jesus was one of many, and most Jews living at the time never even heard of him.

 

[buttercup]

You are describing Roman perception of crime. According to ROMAN LAW----Jesus committed a
CAPITAL CRIME---you accept that too? Even the
NT clearly states that the SANHEDRIN could not
convict Jesus of ANYTHING (that is according to
Jewish law) Do you have any notion as to what the crime Jesus committed WAS? It's actually right there in the NT---his ONE CAPITAL CRIME

You are and I are talking about two different things. I was talking about Barabbas.

If you don't want to answer the question, that's fine. But the word murder has a definition, and unless you think Barabbas was innocent of all charges (which would make the Bible a lie) then your use of the word murder in reference to the death penalty in his case, was simply wrong.

 

[irosie91]

You are and I are talking about two different things. I was talking about Barabbas.

If you don't want to answer the question, that's fine. But the word murder has a definition, and unless you think Barabbas was innocent of all charges (which would make the Bible a lie) then your use of the word murder in reference to the death penalty in his case, was simply wrong.

the answer>> According to ROMAN LAW---Barabas was a criminal --he was a KNOWN REBEL
AGAINST ROME. ACCORDING TO ROMAN LAW
Jesus was a criminal---he had REBELLED AGAINST
ROME. Even Rome had LAWS. The only Law that resulted in crucifixion was rebellion against
Rome. According to Jewish law--neither Barabas or Jesus were criminals. <<< the facts are clearly
revealed in the NT.

 

[USAF 2023]

Yea but they did it for the Jews. The Jews had a choice. Free Jesus or Barabus, a murderer. They freed the murderer.

I don't even believe these stories. I'm just finding it funny today's Christians who side with Israel for political reasons are the same ones who were butt sore as kids because their parents told them Jews killed Jesus.

For those who blame the Jews I say; YOU’RE WELCOME. !

 

[Foxfyre]

What I'm saying is do most Jews agree with the Jesus being crucified? In the religion itself and amongst the jewish population. What do they truly believe?

I probably have some Jewish heritage but do not consider myself to be a Jew--I was not born of a Jewish mother--so I have no insight into how most Jews feel or regard Jesus of Nazareth.

I will say that it is my informed suspicion that that vast majority of present day living Jews give pretty much no thought whatsoever to Jesus of Nazareth, don't have a great deal of interest in New Testament theology, and have no opinion on whether Jesus should have been crucified. At any rate it was not the Jews who arrested, tried and crucified Jesus of Nazareth. That would be the Romans.

I doubt any living Jew now directly descended from or knows much of anything about the Jewish minority who encouraged that to happen more than 2000 years ago.

 

[Lisa558]

I probably have some Jewish heritage but do not consider myself to be a Jew--I was not born of a Jewish mother--so I have no insight into how most Jews feel or regard Jesus of Nazareth.

I will say that it is my informed suspicion that that vast majority of present day living Jews give pretty much no thought whatsoever to Jesus of Nazareth, don't have a great deal of interest in New Testament theology, and have no opinion on whether Jesus should have been crucified. At any rate it was not the Jews who arrested, tried and crucified Jesus of Nazareth. That would be the Romans.

I doubt any living Jew now directly descended from or knows much of anything about the Jewish minority who encouraged that to happen more than 2000 years ago.

I’ve attended Jewish services for more than 60 years, have been listening to Shabbos sermons for almost as long, have taken years of religious school as a child and young teen, and now, in my retirement years, am enrolled in numerous classes that delve deep into history. Never once in all that time has Jesus ever been mentioned.

 

[buttercup]

the answer>> According to ROMAN LAW---Barabas was a criminal --he was a KNOWN REBEL
AGAINST ROME. ACCORDING TO ROMAN LAW
Jesus was a criminal---he had REBELLED AGAINST
ROME. Even Rome had LAWS. The only Law that resulted in crucifixion was rebellion against
Rome. According to Jewish law--neither Barabas or Jesus were criminals. <<< the facts are clearly
revealed in the NT.

I wasn't asking you for the Roman perspective or the Jewish perspective. I was asking you what YOU believe, based on what YOU posted about him.

Maybe I need to be much more clear and direct with you. Please answer this question with a yes or no.

Do YOU believe that Barabbas was an innocent man? Do YOU believe that he was not guilty of murdering anyone?

 

[Foxfyre]

I’ve attended Jewish services for more than 60 years, have been listening to Shabbos sermons for almost as long, have taken years of religious school as a child and young teen, and now, in my retirement years, am enrolled in numerous classes that delve deep into history. Never once in all that time has Jesus ever been mentioned.

Just as millions of Christians have likely never heard anything of modern Jewish beliefs in any Christian sermon. (I'm the exception in that I find both fascinating. )

 

[Meriweather]

That's not what Christians taught their kids in the 1970's.

I was a kid in the 60s. We were taught Jesus was crucified by the Romans. It was noted that some Temple authorities who collaborated with Roman authorities were definitely at odds with Jesus, but others (Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimathea, etc.) were friends of Jesus. Multitudes of Jews came out to listen to him and there were also an incredible number who followed him closely.

I never heard that 70s parents took a u-turn from what Catholic children were being taught in the 60s.

 

[sealybobo]

I was a kid in the 60s. We were taught Jesus was crucified by the Romans. It was noted that some Temple authorities who collaborated with Roman authorities were definitely at odds with Jesus, but others (Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimathea, etc.) were friends of Jesus. Multitudes of Jews came out to listen to him and there were also an incredible number who followed him closely.

I never heard that 70s parents took a u-turn from what Catholic children were being taught in the 60s.

These kids weren't Catholics. They were white. Like, born agains, presbytarians, lutherans, baptists. Real whites. Not Catholics. I'm talking about the Christians who tell Catholics they aren't real Christians. You know who I'm talking about.

I remember my buddies mom had the biggest tits and she told us even thinking about another mans wife was committing adultry. LOL. She must have known what we were all thinking.

 

[sealybobo]

I’ve attended Jewish services for more than 60 years, have been listening to Shabbos sermons for almost as long, have taken years of religious school as a child and young teen, and now, in my retirement years, am enrolled in numerous classes that delve deep into history. Never once in all that time has Jesus ever been mentioned.

And when you look at what evidence we have from back then, very little is even written about Pontious Pilot and Jesus. It certainly wasn't a big deal when it supposedly happened. Later the stories got embellished.

 

[irosie91]

I wasn't asking you for the Roman perspective or the Jewish perspective. I was asking you what YOU believe, based on what YOU posted about him.

Maybe I need to be much more clear and direct with you. Please answer this question with a yes or no.

Do YOU believe that Barabbas was an innocent man? Do YOU believe that he was not guilty of murdering anyone?

I have no information at all indicating that Barabbas did or did not commit murder. I suspect that he did not. There is information that he rebelled against Rome which is why he was being crucified <<< that is the only reason that the Romans crucified jews. Jesus was being crucified for the same reason, to wit, rebellion against Rome.

 

[sealybobo]

I have no information at all indicating that Barabbas did or did not commit murder. I suspect that he did not. There is information that he rebelled against Rome which is why he was being crucified <<< that is the only reason that the Romans crucified jews. Jesus was being crucified for the same reason, to wit, rebellion against Rome.

Sounds like the story is made up and has evolved over time. Sound better if they say the Jews were given a choice, save Jesus or a murderer.

It's all made up you know that right?