Do those on the left really want to discuss the whole racism issue?

[tycho1572]

That's actually a good question.

Blacks are known to commit a disproportionate # of crimes.

Hmmm. That's compelling.

And true.

Yep. Per capita black Americans are convicted of more violent crimes than white Americans.

Now what? Gonna tell us why? Or is it obvious?

Because they aren't as smart as white criminals?

Is this where I'm supposed to guess at why blacks are caught committing crimes more than whites?

Guess? I've not asked you to guess.

I didn't say you did.

 

[Votto]

Bigotry? There are many blacks in the South that don't behave this way. Why is Chicago so different it seems?

There is no bigotry, just trying to understand the root causes in order to save more black lives, or do black lives not really matter?

You have yet to tell us your take on why black people in Chicago commit violent crimes at what is perceived as a higher rate.

Why not?

I've already told you what I think the main cause is. Much of the black culture has given up their faith

Naturally, many blame the gang/drug violence, but then, what caused that?

Again, a violent culture cannot prosper. They have condemned themselves to squalor. I think we can both agree on that. So how do we stop the violence?

Faith? You are going with a lack of faith?

Their faith in God. MLK led the way back in the day. Who does the black community have now to lead them?

Wow. You really think that the black community has lost faith in God.

I love people.

Those that join gangs and kill people have.

Is that not the issue?

 

[LoneLaugher]

You have yet to tell us your take on why black people in Chicago commit violent crimes at what is perceived as a higher rate.

Why not?

I've already told you what I think the main cause is. Much of the black culture has given up their faith

Naturally, many blame the gang/drug violence, but then, what caused that?

Again, a violent culture cannot prosper. They have condemned themselves to squalor. I think we can both agree on that. So how do we stop the violence?

Faith? You are going with a lack of faith?

Their faith in God. MLK led the way back in the day. Who does the black community have now to lead them?

Wow. You really think that the black community has lost faith in God.

I love people.

Those that join gangs and kill people have.

Is that not the issue?

Can you even come close to supporting that contention?

 

[GWV5903]

What political party does dave duke call home?

What party does Jesse Jackson call home?

What party does Al Sharpton call home?

What party does Jeremiah Wright call home?

What party does Maxine Waters call home?

What party does Shelia Jackson Lee call home?

I can keep going if you need more....

 

[Two Thumbs]

Yes, let's discuss RACISM and the Dems' role in propagating it.


Here are a few unassailable facts to consider:

--While the secession debate was between the North and the South, the slavery debate was between a pro-slavery Democratic Party and an anti-slavery Republican Party.

--Two of the three Democrats that Lincoln identified as the champions of slavery—Stephen Douglas and James Buchanan—were Northerners. Only one, Roger Taney, was a Southerner.

--Even after Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, the Democratic platform in 1864 sought a treaty with the Confederacy that would most likely involve a restoration of slavery.

--After the Civil War, the Democrats overwhelmingly opposed the Thirteenth Amendment freeing the slaves, the Fourteenth Amendment granting equal rights under law, and the Fifteenth Amendment giving blacks the right to vote.

--Jim Crow is entirely a legacy of the Democratic Party. Every segregation law enacted in the South was passed by a Democratic legislature, signed by a Democratic governor, and enforced by Democratic officials.

--After Republicans shut it down in the late nineteenth century, the Ku Klux Klan was revived in the early twentieth century by a progressive Democratic president, Woodrow Wilson, who screened a pro-KKK movie in the White House.

--For decades the Klan served, in the words of progressive historian Eric Foner, as “the domestic terrorist arm of the Democratic Party.” David Duke is an anomaly; virtually every KKK leader for the past 150 years has been a Democrat.

--As historian Ira Katznelson shows, in order to get the New Deal passed, progressive icon Franklin Delano Roosevelt made deals with racist Democrats to block anti-lynching legislation and to exclude African Americans from most New Deal programs.

--More Republicans than Democrats proportionately voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Bill of 1968. The main opposition to the civil rights movement came not from the GOP but from racist Democrats....

Dinesh D'Souza: Colin Kaepernick's big lie

Question, what is a Dixiecrat?

And where did they settle in 2017 politics?

how old are you that you don't know what a dixiecrat is?

 

[Votto]

 

[HappyJoy]

The last serious dem to question "Free Trade" was Dukakis, and he was crushed like a bug a long time ago, in the dem primaries.

Oh, dude, why would anyone take you seriously?

 

[otto105]

Yes, let's discuss RACISM and the Dems' role in propagating it.


Here are a few unassailable facts to consider:

--While the secession debate was between the North and the South, the slavery debate was between a pro-slavery Democratic Party and an anti-slavery Republican Party.

--Two of the three Democrats that Lincoln identified as the champions of slavery—Stephen Douglas and James Buchanan—were Northerners. Only one, Roger Taney, was a Southerner.

--Even after Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, the Democratic platform in 1864 sought a treaty with the Confederacy that would most likely involve a restoration of slavery.

--After the Civil War, the Democrats overwhelmingly opposed the Thirteenth Amendment freeing the slaves, the Fourteenth Amendment granting equal rights under law, and the Fifteenth Amendment giving blacks the right to vote.

--Jim Crow is entirely a legacy of the Democratic Party. Every segregation law enacted in the South was passed by a Democratic legislature, signed by a Democratic governor, and enforced by Democratic officials.

--After Republicans shut it down in the late nineteenth century, the Ku Klux Klan was revived in the early twentieth century by a progressive Democratic president, Woodrow Wilson, who screened a pro-KKK movie in the White House.

--For decades the Klan served, in the words of progressive historian Eric Foner, as “the domestic terrorist arm of the Democratic Party.” David Duke is an anomaly; virtually every KKK leader for the past 150 years has been a Democrat.

--As historian Ira Katznelson shows, in order to get the New Deal passed, progressive icon Franklin Delano Roosevelt made deals with racist Democrats to block anti-lynching legislation and to exclude African Americans from most New Deal programs.

--More Republicans than Democrats proportionately voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Bill of 1968. The main opposition to the civil rights movement came not from the GOP but from racist Democrats....

Dinesh D'Souza: Colin Kaepernick's big lie

Question, what is a Dixiecrat?

And where did they settle in 2017 politics?

Pathetic diversion.

Is what I would expect from a conservative in denial.

So what happened in the republic party to their members that voted for the 1964 Civil Rights bill?

Which party shed its racist southern influence and which one embraced it as a "southern strategy?

Which party advocated for a poll tax and for voter ID in current day?


And finally which party includes Dave duke?

"The Civil Rights Act -- which is best known for barring discrimination in public accommodations -- passed the House on Feb. 10, 1964 by a margin of 290-130. When broken down by party, 61 percent of Democratic lawmakers voted for the bill (152 yeas and 96 nays), and a full 80 percent of the Republican caucus supported it (138 yeas and 34 nays).

When the Senate passed the measure on June 19, 1964, -- nine days after supporters mustered enough votes to end the longest filibuster in Senate history -- the margin was 73-27. Better than two-thirds of Senate Democrats supported the measure on final passage (46 yeas, 21 nays), but an even stronger 82 percent of Republicans supported it (27 yeas, 6 nays).

When the Voting Rights Act hit the floor in 1965, the vote results mirrored those of the Civil Rights Act. In the House, the measure passed by a 333-85 margin, with 78 percent of Democrats backing it (221 yeas and 61 nays) and 82 percent of Republicans backing it (112 yeas to 24 nays).

In the Senate, the measure passed by a 77-19 vote, with 73 percent of Democrats and 94 percent of Republicans supporting the bill."

Steele says GOP fought hard for civil rights bills in 1960s

Yes, let's discuss RACISM and the Dems' role in propagating it.


Here are a few unassailable facts to consider:

--While the secession debate was between the North and the South, the slavery debate was between a pro-slavery Democratic Party and an anti-slavery Republican Party.

--Two of the three Democrats that Lincoln identified as the champions of slavery—Stephen Douglas and James Buchanan—were Northerners. Only one, Roger Taney, was a Southerner.

--Even after Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, the Democratic platform in 1864 sought a treaty with the Confederacy that would most likely involve a restoration of slavery.

--After the Civil War, the Democrats overwhelmingly opposed the Thirteenth Amendment freeing the slaves, the Fourteenth Amendment granting equal rights under law, and the Fifteenth Amendment giving blacks the right to vote.

--Jim Crow is entirely a legacy of the Democratic Party. Every segregation law enacted in the South was passed by a Democratic legislature, signed by a Democratic governor, and enforced by Democratic officials.

--After Republicans shut it down in the late nineteenth century, the Ku Klux Klan was revived in the early twentieth century by a progressive Democratic president, Woodrow Wilson, who screened a pro-KKK movie in the White House.

--For decades the Klan served, in the words of progressive historian Eric Foner, as “the domestic terrorist arm of the Democratic Party.” David Duke is an anomaly; virtually every KKK leader for the past 150 years has been a Democrat.

--As historian Ira Katznelson shows, in order to get the New Deal passed, progressive icon Franklin Delano Roosevelt made deals with racist Democrats to block anti-lynching legislation and to exclude African Americans from most New Deal programs.

--More Republicans than Democrats proportionately voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Bill of 1968. The main opposition to the civil rights movement came not from the GOP but from racist Democrats....

Dinesh D'Souza: Colin Kaepernick's big lie

Question, what is a Dixiecrat?

And where did they settle in 2017 politics?

Pathetic diversion.

Is what I would expect from a conservative in denial.

So what happened in the republic party to their members that voted for the 1964 Civil Rights bill?

Which party shed its racist southern influence and which one embraced it as a "southern strategy?

Which party advocated for a poll tax and for voter ID in current day?


And finally which party includes Dave duke?

"The Civil Rights Act -- which is best known for barring discrimination in public accommodations -- passed the House on Feb. 10, 1964 by a margin of 290-130. When broken down by party, 61 percent of Democratic lawmakers voted for the bill (152 yeas and 96 nays), and a full 80 percent of the Republican caucus supported it (138 yeas and 34 nays).

When the Senate passed the measure on June 19, 1964, -- nine days after supporters mustered enough votes to end the longest filibuster in Senate history -- the margin was 73-27. Better than two-thirds of Senate Democrats supported the measure on final passage (46 yeas, 21 nays), but an even stronger 82 percent of Republicans supported it (27 yeas, 6 nays).

When the Voting Rights Act hit the floor in 1965, the vote results mirrored those of the Civil Rights Act. In the House, the measure passed by a 333-85 margin, with 78 percent of Democrats backing it (221 yeas and 61 nays) and 82 percent of Republicans backing it (112 yeas to 24 nays).

In the Senate, the measure passed by a 77-19 vote, with 73 percent of Democrats and 94 percent of Republicans supporting the bill."

Steele says GOP fought hard for civil rights bills in 1960s

Ok, what's bill did any republic pol offer during the Civil Rights era to help the movement dienesh?​

 

[otto105]

To paragraph 5 I say, why? Answer with some intelligence and we can proceed.

So why is the black culture steeped in poverty and violence?

I asked you. Why can't you answer?

So what are the causes of violence and poverty?

Well the roots of poverty can be traced to the slave era and the violence just helps perpetuate it.

Do poor folk trend exponencially toward violence? During the Great Depression this does not seem to be the case. I realize from a left winged perspective poverty = violence, at least, according to Marx, but I disagree.

Would the culture change much if we threw trillions of dollars at them?

What say you? Would the violence go away?

You didn't answer the question.

I was looking back at some pictures from the 1960's Civil Rights march.

Something struck me odd. Blacks were respectful and they seemed to be well dressed. Why, especially before getting their Civil Rights later on? They were also carrying Bibles and holding hands.

It is a vast difference from what we saw in Ferguson with burning buildings and rioting as they looked like animals.

One accomplished something, the other is accomplishing nothing but the tearing apart of society.

Why is this? I think it is because they have lost their faith.

It's because whiteMerica limited job opportunities and social movement.

Just ask your Dad about sunset laws. Religious jobs offered some sanctuary from the discrimination.

 

[otto105]

View attachment 151695

Get off your high horse. I created this thread for conversation, not for chest thumping.

This is not a term paper, it's just a casual discussion.

How many people do you reckon researches such issues? All we hear in the media is racial baiting and meaningless drivel. Embrace some casual conversation about the facts for a change instead of being such a pompous SOB.

So are you familiar with any of these programs or did you just randomly google a bunch of programs you have no familiarity with?

embrace casual conversation about the facts..

you say...


that you didnt bother to even look into


you say.


sorry, sane minds gotta wonder.

Sane minds want answers.

Sane minds don't want to throw money at problems and not have their problems any better than before incurring all that debt for nothing.

How has the black plight improved since the Civil Rights movement?

Quick question...and then we will get back to it.


Which precinct are you down at ..in Chicago..to get your ideas about its black on black crime.....if its not reported?

I don't live in Chicago but all I hear is the black on black homicide numbers coming out of Chicago.

Are you saying it is all fake news?

Do you hear that the murder rate in Chicago used to be higher in the 90's?

I thought the angry orange was going to stop all crime.

 

[otto105]

What political party does dave duke call home?

What party does Jesse Jackson call home?

What party does Al Sharpton call home?

What party does Jeremiah Wright call home?

What party does Maxine Waters call home?

What party does Shelia Jackson Lee call home?

I can keep going if you need more....

Nobody has any problem with them, but dave duke they do.

What party is he part of?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, let's discuss RACISM and the Dems' role in propagating it.


Here are a few unassailable facts to consider:

--While the secession debate was between the North and the South, the slavery debate was between a pro-slavery Democratic Party and an anti-slavery Republican Party.

--Two of the three Democrats that Lincoln identified as the champions of slavery—Stephen Douglas and James Buchanan—were Northerners. Only one, Roger Taney, was a Southerner.

--Even after Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, the Democratic platform in 1864 sought a treaty with the Confederacy that would most likely involve a restoration of slavery.

--After the Civil War, the Democrats overwhelmingly opposed the Thirteenth Amendment freeing the slaves, the Fourteenth Amendment granting equal rights under law, and the Fifteenth Amendment giving blacks the right to vote.

--Jim Crow is entirely a legacy of the Democratic Party. Every segregation law enacted in the South was passed by a Democratic legislature, signed by a Democratic governor, and enforced by Democratic officials.

--After Republicans shut it down in the late nineteenth century, the Ku Klux Klan was revived in the early twentieth century by a progressive Democratic president, Woodrow Wilson, who screened a pro-KKK movie in the White House.

--For decades the Klan served, in the words of progressive historian Eric Foner, as “the domestic terrorist arm of the Democratic Party.” David Duke is an anomaly; virtually every KKK leader for the past 150 years has been a Democrat.

--As historian Ira Katznelson shows, in order to get the New Deal passed, progressive icon Franklin Delano Roosevelt made deals with racist Democrats to block anti-lynching legislation and to exclude African Americans from most New Deal programs.

--More Republicans than Democrats proportionately voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Bill of 1968. The main opposition to the civil rights movement came not from the GOP but from racist Democrats....

Dinesh D'Souza: Colin Kaepernick's big lie

Question, what is a Dixiecrat?

And where did they settle in 2017 politics?

Pathetic diversion.

Is what I would expect from a conservative in denial.

So what happened in the republic party to their members that voted for the 1964 Civil Rights bill?

Which party shed its racist southern influence and which one embraced it as a "southern strategy?

Which party advocated for a poll tax and for voter ID in current day?


And finally which party includes Dave duke?

"The Civil Rights Act -- which is best known for barring discrimination in public accommodations -- passed the House on Feb. 10, 1964 by a margin of 290-130. When broken down by party, 61 percent of Democratic lawmakers voted for the bill (152 yeas and 96 nays), and a full 80 percent of the Republican caucus supported it (138 yeas and 34 nays).

When the Senate passed the measure on June 19, 1964, -- nine days after supporters mustered enough votes to end the longest filibuster in Senate history -- the margin was 73-27. Better than two-thirds of Senate Democrats supported the measure on final passage (46 yeas, 21 nays), but an even stronger 82 percent of Republicans supported it (27 yeas, 6 nays).

When the Voting Rights Act hit the floor in 1965, the vote results mirrored those of the Civil Rights Act. In the House, the measure passed by a 333-85 margin, with 78 percent of Democrats backing it (221 yeas and 61 nays) and 82 percent of Republicans backing it (112 yeas to 24 nays).

In the Senate, the measure passed by a 77-19 vote, with 73 percent of Democrats and 94 percent of Republicans supporting the bill."

Steele says GOP fought hard for civil rights bills in 1960s

Yes, let's discuss RACISM and the Dems' role in propagating it.


Here are a few unassailable facts to consider:

--While the secession debate was between the North and the South, the slavery debate was between a pro-slavery Democratic Party and an anti-slavery Republican Party.

--Two of the three Democrats that Lincoln identified as the champions of slavery—Stephen Douglas and James Buchanan—were Northerners. Only one, Roger Taney, was a Southerner.

--Even after Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, the Democratic platform in 1864 sought a treaty with the Confederacy that would most likely involve a restoration of slavery.

--After the Civil War, the Democrats overwhelmingly opposed the Thirteenth Amendment freeing the slaves, the Fourteenth Amendment granting equal rights under law, and the Fifteenth Amendment giving blacks the right to vote.

--Jim Crow is entirely a legacy of the Democratic Party. Every segregation law enacted in the South was passed by a Democratic legislature, signed by a Democratic governor, and enforced by Democratic officials.

--After Republicans shut it down in the late nineteenth century, the Ku Klux Klan was revived in the early twentieth century by a progressive Democratic president, Woodrow Wilson, who screened a pro-KKK movie in the White House.

--For decades the Klan served, in the words of progressive historian Eric Foner, as “the domestic terrorist arm of the Democratic Party.” David Duke is an anomaly; virtually every KKK leader for the past 150 years has been a Democrat.

--As historian Ira Katznelson shows, in order to get the New Deal passed, progressive icon Franklin Delano Roosevelt made deals with racist Democrats to block anti-lynching legislation and to exclude African Americans from most New Deal programs.

--More Republicans than Democrats proportionately voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Bill of 1968. The main opposition to the civil rights movement came not from the GOP but from racist Democrats....

Dinesh D'Souza: Colin Kaepernick's big lie

Question, what is a Dixiecrat?

And where did they settle in 2017 politics?

Pathetic diversion.

Is what I would expect from a conservative in denial.

So what happened in the republic party to their members that voted for the 1964 Civil Rights bill?

Which party shed its racist southern influence and which one embraced it as a "southern strategy?

Which party advocated for a poll tax and for voter ID in current day?


And finally which party includes Dave duke?

"The Civil Rights Act -- which is best known for barring discrimination in public accommodations -- passed the House on Feb. 10, 1964 by a margin of 290-130. When broken down by party, 61 percent of Democratic lawmakers voted for the bill (152 yeas and 96 nays), and a full 80 percent of the Republican caucus supported it (138 yeas and 34 nays).

When the Senate passed the measure on June 19, 1964, -- nine days after supporters mustered enough votes to end the longest filibuster in Senate history -- the margin was 73-27. Better than two-thirds of Senate Democrats supported the measure on final passage (46 yeas, 21 nays), but an even stronger 82 percent of Republicans supported it (27 yeas, 6 nays).

When the Voting Rights Act hit the floor in 1965, the vote results mirrored those of the Civil Rights Act. In the House, the measure passed by a 333-85 margin, with 78 percent of Democrats backing it (221 yeas and 61 nays) and 82 percent of Republicans backing it (112 yeas to 24 nays).

In the Senate, the measure passed by a 77-19 vote, with 73 percent of Democrats and 94 percent of Republicans supporting the bill."

Steele says GOP fought hard for civil rights bills in 1960s

Ok, what's bill did any republic pol offer during the Civil Rights era to help the movement dienesh?​

Oh, so move the goalposts again since you lost that debate.

 

[Billo_Really]

So from what we were told, the whole not standing for the national anthem was suppose to generate meaningful discussions about the ills of society?

If so, let's get it on!

First off, there is racism and there will always be racism. Nothing will change this fact.

Secondly, there are things we can do to reduce racism, but it's not a one way road.

What we have in the US today is a black culture steeped in gang violence, drugs, and poverty. It is a self perpetuating fact. Here we have a small number of blacks that are responsible for the majority of violent crimes in the US.

Now put yourself in the shoes of a police officer in that violent community. You will always be on your guard. If you lower your guard, you die, but if you "snap" and make the wrong move you get sued. How would you fair at that job?

It is also true that blacks are profiled. Of course, middle eastern men are also profiled on board planes. Why? Is it because of racism? No, it's because most acts of international terrorism are carried out by such people.

Last year, about 250 black men were killed by police officers, and guess what, those police officers were not all white. Now let's consider the violence in Chicago every year. Black on black violence accounts for more than double the number of blacks killed by police officers. Where are the protests about that? There are none to be heard. How is it that police are not suppose to kill blacks when they are killing themselves in such numbers? It is insane.

What we are witnessing is America paying for the sins of the past, but to continually try to blame others for the problem instead of taking accountability for our own short comings is poison.

What say you?

There is no place for racism in this country. There is no place for racist cops in this country. And there is no place for racist, pieces of shit like you, in this country.

Generally you call people racists that say racist things. What did I say that was racist?

Screaming racist has actually watered down it's meaning until it means virtually nothing.

No where did I claim that darky was inferior to whitey in any way. What I'm trying to address is the incident that sparked this conversation to begin with, which is, what exactly is wrong with the country and how to fix it.

I would love it if you would participate instead of simply calling me names.

You inferred all the problems are with the African-American community, not racism within law enforcement. Your post try's to sweep racial inequality under the rug. You're basically saying, "It is what it is". If screaming "racist" has been watered down, it is because its falling on deaf ears and not due to the people making the accusation.

No where in your post do you deal with having cops be held accountable for their actions.

 

[sealybobo]

The left has no desire to seriously discuss issues surrounding race and racial relations.

They merely want to milk for everything they can for elections.

Just look at their track record.

I thought trump being the blunt speaker he is would confront the black community. Maybe via tweet.

Interestingly after the 60s riots president Johnson sent a bunch of white men to Detroit to find out what caused it. They found blacks were angry because of police violence and lack of opportunity.

So we already had the discussion and found out you're wrong. It's whites fault.

That said I think blacks in 2017 need to stop raising worthless humans they can't afford. It's them causing the violence against the black community

 

[Mac1958]

Both "sides" of this discussion have plenty of house-cleaning to do.

Until they're willing to do so, there will be no honest discussion of race.

 

[Correll]

The last serious dem to question "Free Trade" was Dukakis, and he was crushed like a bug a long time ago, in the dem primaries.

Oh, dude, why would anyone take you seriously?

Because the words I say make a valid point that can only rarely be refuted.

I note that you did not try to refute my statement.


Dukakis WAS the last serious dem to question "Free Trade" and he was crushed in the dem primaries.


Do you have something to say about that, or are you just a brainless partisan sheep?

 

[Correll]

Both "sides" of this discussion have plenty of house-cleaning to do.

Until they're willing to do so, there will be no honest discussion of race.

Sorry, that's not true.

It is false accusations of racism that prevents ANY real discussion on race and many other issues.


And that game is played almost solely by the dems.

 

[HappyJoy]

The last serious dem to question "Free Trade" was Dukakis, and he was crushed like a bug a long time ago, in the dem primaries.

Oh, dude, why would anyone take you seriously?

Because the words I say make a valid point that can only rarely be refuted.

I note that you did not try to refute my statement.


Dukakis WAS the last serious dem to question "Free Trade" and he was crushed in the dem primaries.


Do you have something to say about that, or are you just a brainless partisan sheep?

Who ran against Bush in 88?

 

[Correll]

What political party does dave duke call home?

What party does Jesse Jackson call home?

What party does Al Sharpton call home?

What party does Jeremiah Wright call home?

What party does Maxine Waters call home?

What party does Shelia Jackson Lee call home?

I can keep going if you need more....

Nobody has any problem with them, but dave duke they do.

What party is he part of?

Anyone with a brain has a problem with that list of people.


And David Duke? HOw would we know?

 

[Correll]

The last serious dem to question "Free Trade" was Dukakis, and he was crushed like a bug a long time ago, in the dem primaries.

Oh, dude, why would anyone take you seriously?

Because the words I say make a valid point that can only rarely be refuted.

I note that you did not try to refute my statement.


Dukakis WAS the last serious dem to question "Free Trade" and he was crushed in the dem primaries.


Do you have something to say about that, or are you just a brainless partisan sheep?

Who ran against Bush in 88?

Damn it.


I got Dukakis and Gephardt mixed up.


Gephardt was the last serious dem to question Free Trade and he was crushed like a bug in the primaries.


Sorry about that.



THey say the memory is the first thing to go. At least I think they said that. How the hell would I know?