Do those on the left really want to discuss the whole racism issue?

[Ray From Cleveland]

The last serious dem to question "Free Trade" was Dukakis, and he was crushed like a bug a long time ago, in the dem primaries.

Oh, dude, why would anyone take you seriously?

Because the words I say make a valid point that can only rarely be refuted.

I note that you did not try to refute my statement.


Dukakis WAS the last serious dem to question "Free Trade" and he was crushed in the dem primaries.


Do you have something to say about that, or are you just a brainless partisan sheep?

Yes, Dukakis really tanked.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So from what we were told, the whole not standing for the national anthem was suppose to generate meaningful discussions about the ills of society?

If so, let's get it on!

First off, there is racism and there will always be racism. Nothing will change this fact.

Secondly, there are things we can do to reduce racism, but it's not a one way road.

What we have in the US today is a black culture steeped in gang violence, drugs, and poverty. It is a self perpetuating fact. Here we have a small number of blacks that are responsible for the majority of violent crimes in the US.

Now put yourself in the shoes of a police officer in that violent community. You will always be on your guard. If you lower your guard, you die, but if you "snap" and make the wrong move you get sued. How would you fair at that job?

It is also true that blacks are profiled. Of course, middle eastern men are also profiled on board planes. Why? Is it because of racism? No, it's because most acts of international terrorism are carried out by such people.

Last year, about 250 black men were killed by police officers, and guess what, those police officers were not all white. Now let's consider the violence in Chicago every year. Black on black violence accounts for more than double the number of blacks killed by police officers. Where are the protests about that? There are none to be heard. How is it that police are not suppose to kill blacks when they are killing themselves in such numbers? It is insane.

What we are witnessing is America paying for the sins of the past, but to continually try to blame others for the problem instead of taking accountability for our own short comings is poison.

What say you?

There is no place for racism in this country. There is no place for racist cops in this country. And there is no place for racist, pieces of shit like you, in this country.

Generally you call people racists that say racist things. What did I say that was racist?

Screaming racist has actually watered down it's meaning until it means virtually nothing.

No where did I claim that darky was inferior to whitey in any way. What I'm trying to address is the incident that sparked this conversation to begin with, which is, what exactly is wrong with the country and how to fix it.

I would love it if you would participate instead of simply calling me names.

You inferred all the problems are with the African-American community, not racism within law enforcement. Your post try's to sweep racial inequality under the rug. You're basically saying, "It is what it is". If screaming "racist" has been watered down, it is because its falling on deaf ears and not due to the people making the accusation.

No where in your post do you deal with having cops be held accountable for their actions.

Every single one is held accountable for their actions. The problem is you people on the left don't understand (or just don't like) the laws in this country.

 

[Billo_Really]

Every single one is held accountable for their actions. The problem is you people on the left don't understand (or just don't like) the laws in this country.

Name one you fucking racist!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Every single one is held accountable for their actions. The problem is you people on the left don't understand (or just don't like) the laws in this country.

Name one you fucking racist!

Name one what? Every police shooting is investigated thoroughly. The officer(s) involved are on paid leave while this takes place. If anything looks the least bit suspicious, the case is forwarded to the prosecutor. If the prosecutor thinks something may be amiss, he hands the case over to a grand jury--the citizens of that area. In most all cases, the citizens of that city or town cannot find a law that the officer(s) broke.

Liberals think that we can prosecute or incarcerate police officers because they did something the public doesn't like. But we don't live in the heart of Africa or the middle-east. We live in a civilized society. In a civilized society, we adhere to the laws we created for all. We don't lock people up because we don't like something they did even if it was within the constraints of the law. We got rid of witch burning many years ago.

So let's go over a few things that confuse liberals such as yourself and big dumb football players.

There is no law that states the only time a police officer can use deadly force is when he or she is threatened by a deadly weapon. A police officer (or armed citizen such as myself) has the legal right to use deadly force if we believe we (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death. In other words, if another motorist gets pissed off at something I did, approaches my car, kicks out the car window to get at me, I have the legal right to kill that attacker even if he is not armed. The cops can't even write me a ticket.

Next of course is we are a nation of laws. You can't prosecute a person that didn't break any laws. Now you show me one case where an officer in a police shooting broke any laws that the prosecutor and/or grand jury didn't uphold.

 

[Billo_Really]

Name one what?

Give me a specific example of a cop being held responsible for his actions.

Every police shooting is investigated thoroughly.

You're so full of shit.

Police shootings: Trials, convictions are rare for officers​

The officer(s) involved are on paid leave while this takes place. If anything looks the least bit suspicious, the case is forwarded to the prosecutor. If the prosecutor thinks something may be amiss, he hands the case over to a grand jury--the citizens of that area. In most all cases, the citizens of that city or town cannot find a law that the officer(s) broke.

They must be white citizens.

Terence Crutcher
The 40-year-old man was shot by Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby after Crutcher's SUV was found stalled in the middle of the street. Shelby testified that she opened fire because she feared for her life. Videos of the shooting showed Crutcher walking on the road with his arms in the air before being shot.

Outcome: Jury found Shelby not guilty of felony manslaughter in May 2017.
​

The video showed his arms in the air at the time he was shot.

Eric Garner
The 43-year-old man died after being tackled to the ground and being held in a chokehold by New York City police officers for allegedly selling cigarettes illegally. Garner, who has asthma, said, "I can't breathe," as the incident was captured on cellphone video and died later that day on July 17, 2014.

Outcome: Grand jury decided not to indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo. The city settled with Garner's estate for $5.9 million.
​

What happened to your precious grand fucking jury there, white boy?

Michael Brown
The unarmed 18-year-old is fatally shot after a struggle with a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, on August 9, 2014. Documents show that Officer Darren Wilson fired his gun 12 times.

Outcome: Grand jury decided not to indict Wilson. Protests erupt.​

Cop shoots an un-armed black man and your all-white grand jury saw no reason to indict him. Fuck you!

Liberals think that we can prosecute or incarcerate police officers because they did something the public doesn't like. But we don't live in the heart of Africa or the middle-east. We live in a civilized society. In a civilized society, we adhere to the laws we created for all. We don't lock people up because we don't like something they did even if it was within the constraints of the law. We got rid of witch burning many years ago.

Is that why 70% of the people in prison are there for victimless crimes?

So let's go over a few things that confuse liberals such as yourself and big dumb football players.

There is no law that states the only time a police officer can use deadly force is when he or she is threatened by a deadly weapon. A police officer (or armed citizen such as myself) has the legal right to use deadly force if we believe we (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death. In other words, if another motorist gets pissed off at something I did, approaches my car, kicks out the car window to get at me, I have the legal right to kill that attacker even if he is not armed. The cops can't even write me a ticket.

What if someone kicks out your car window and you're the one who gets shot by the cops?

Next of course is we are a nation of laws. You can't prosecute a person that didn't break any laws. Now you show me one case where an officer in a police shooting broke any laws that the prosecutor and/or grand jury didn't uphold.

That's the problem. The system is rigged and the judicial branch has been politicized.

 

[Mac1958]

Both "sides" of this discussion have plenty of house-cleaning to do.

Until they're willing to do so, there will be no honest discussion of race.

Sorry, that's not true.

It is false accusations of racism that prevents ANY real discussion on race and many other issues.


And that game is played almost solely by the dems.

You really think that there is no racism coming the Right, that it has no improvements to make?
.

 

[Aletheia4u]

 

[Correll]

Both "sides" of this discussion have plenty of house-cleaning to do.

Until they're willing to do so, there will be no honest discussion of race.

Sorry, that's not true.

It is false accusations of racism that prevents ANY real discussion on race and many other issues.


And that game is played almost solely by the dems.

You really think that there is no racism coming the Right, that it has no improvements to make?
.

In another thread, Alabama being supposedly very racist came up.

I linked to voting records.

Alabama voted against Obama LESS than it voted against Kerry or HIllary.


Now, that is likely driven by increased turnout by blacks.

BUT, not that the much larger white population had no, or a very tiny (1%) anti Obama surge.


That's the power of racism in the deep south, on the right. ONe percent increased voting. Maybe.


No, the vast majority of what gets called racism from the Right, (not the Far Fringe "Right") is just something that some lefty mistakenly assumes is racism, or even purposefully lies for partisan reasons.


Do you want the link I used on Alabama voting?

 

[Mac1958]

Both "sides" of this discussion have plenty of house-cleaning to do.

Until they're willing to do so, there will be no honest discussion of race.

Sorry, that's not true.

It is false accusations of racism that prevents ANY real discussion on race and many other issues.


And that game is played almost solely by the dems.

You really think that there is no racism coming the Right, that it has no improvements to make?
.

In another thread, Alabama being supposedly very racist came up.

I linked to voting records.

Alabama voted against Obama LESS than it voted against Kerry or HIllary.


Now, that is likely driven by increased turnout by blacks.

BUT, not that the much larger white population had no, or a very tiny (1%) anti Obama surge.


That's the power of racism in the deep south, on the right. ONe percent increased voting. Maybe.


No, the vast majority of what gets called racism from the Right, (not the Far Fringe "Right") is just something that some lefty mistakenly assumes is racism, or even purposefully lies for partisan reasons.


Do you want the link I used on Alabama voting?

No, there's nothing I can say that would matter. But thanks, your response is instructional.
.

 

[Votto]

Every single one is held accountable for their actions. The problem is you people on the left don't understand (or just don't like) the laws in this country.

Name one you fucking racist!

In your little "whitey/darkey" world, when a black police officer shoots a black man, is he just an uncle tom?

 

[sartre play]

When some one starts talking about race not personal attacks or party line propaganda, will be happy to join the discussion.

 

[Mac1958]

When some one starts talking about race not personal attacks or party line propaganda, will be happy to join the discussion.

Amen. But don't hold your breath, we're light years from that right now.
.

 

[G.T.]

When some one starts talking about race not personal attacks or party line propaganda, will be happy to join the discussion.

Amen. But don't hold your breath, we're light years from that right now.
.

Thats completely untrue.

These discussions happen all the time, and on tv alot as well.

Heres how they go.


"its hard to have an honest discussion about race"

"lets have one"

"blacks commit crime at a disproportionate rate"

"ok, lets look into why that might be"


"opinions, opinions, opinions, etc etc ad nauseum."



"so, what can we do about it???"



"i dunno."



"i dunno, either."



"hmmf!"


"hmmf!!"




Two weeks later, mac on the internet:

"people can never have an honest discussion about race!"

 

[Billo_Really]

In your little "whitey/darkey" world, when a black police officer shoots a black man, is he just an uncle tom?

No. It depends on the cop and the specific case you are referring to. There are white and black cops who simply do their job. But that is not what this discussion is about. It's about the cops who commit crimes under the color of authority and are allowed to get away with it by the rigged judicial system and certain particular citizens who constantly make excuses for their behavior.

 

[Correll]

Both "sides" of this discussion have plenty of house-cleaning to do.

Until they're willing to do so, there will be no honest discussion of race.

Sorry, that's not true.

It is false accusations of racism that prevents ANY real discussion on race and many other issues.


And that game is played almost solely by the dems.

You really think that there is no racism coming the Right, that it has no improvements to make?
.

In another thread, Alabama being supposedly very racist came up.

I linked to voting records.

Alabama voted against Obama LESS than it voted against Kerry or HIllary.


Now, that is likely driven by increased turnout by blacks.

BUT, not that the much larger white population had no, or a very tiny (1%) anti Obama surge.


That's the power of racism in the deep south, on the right. ONe percent increased voting. Maybe.


No, the vast majority of what gets called racism from the Right, (not the Far Fringe "Right") is just something that some lefty mistakenly assumes is racism, or even purposefully lies for partisan reasons.


Do you want the link I used on Alabama voting?

No, there's nothing I can say that would matter. But thanks, your response is instructional.
.

Did anything I say matter to you?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Give me a specific example of a cop being held responsible for his actions.

They all are. Show me one police shooting that was never investigated.

You're so full of shit.

Police shootings: Trials, convictions are rare for officers

They must be white citizens.

Terence Crutcher
The 40-year-old man was shot by Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby after Crutcher's SUV was found stalled in the middle of the street. Shelby testified that she opened fire because she feared for her life. Videos of the shooting showed Crutcher walking on the road with his arms in the air before being shot.

Outcome: Jury found Shelby not guilty of felony manslaughter in May 2017.
The video showed his arms in the air at the time he was shot.

No, the video didn't show that. The helicopter circled around his vehicle and nobody could see where his hands were at the exact time the shots were fired. Her testimony is he reached into his SUV and that's when she opened fire.

He refused to listen to any of her (or her partners) orders. He was higher than a kite. He had plenty of run-ins with the law in the past. So what was a jury to do, convict her of something that likely didn't happen and no evidence of?

We don't send people to prison based on speculation. The jury made the right decision.

Eric Garner
The 43-year-old man died after being tackled to the ground and being held in a chokehold by New York City police officers for allegedly selling cigarettes illegally. Garner, who has asthma, said, "I can't breathe," as the incident was captured on cellphone video and died later that day on July 17, 2014.

Outcome: Grand jury decided not to indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo. The city settled with Garner's estate for $5.9 million.
What happened to your precious grand fucking jury there, white boy?

The jury couldn't find any law that the officer broke black boy. His death was caused by not complying with the officer and his health conditions--not what the officer did. No law was broken.

Michael Brown
The unarmed 18-year-old is fatally shot after a struggle with a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, on August 9, 2014. Documents show that Officer Darren Wilson fired his gun 12 times.

Outcome: Grand jury decided not to indict Wilson. Protests erupt.
Cop shoots an un-armed black man and your all-white grand jury saw no reason to indict him. Fuck you!

Except for the fact that forensic evidence showed that Brown did not have his hands in the air. Testimony by BLACK witnesses stated that Brown was running towards the officer when he shot. Not hard to believe given the fact that the officer already shot him once in his hand when he tried to take the officers weapon away from him in his own police car.

There is no evidence to suggest the officer did not shoot in self defense. Brown attacked the officer once already, when he tried for a second time, that's when the officer shot.

Is that why 70% of the people in prison are there for victimless crimes?

There are in there for drug sales. And BTW, over 50,000 Americans die every year from opioid narcotics, one of them being my cousins son a year and a half ago. She lost him at the age of 28. How is that victimless?

What if someone kicks out your car window and you're the one who gets shot by the cops?

Only if I threatened the police with serious bodily harm or death.

That's the problem. The system is rigged and the judicial branch has been politicized.

No, the problem is you don't know or understand our laws. That's the problem. In any of your posted stories, please tell me one officer that broke the law and what that law was. And if you do that, show me the indisputable evidence of such law(s) being broke, because when you convict somebody, you have to do so on empirical evidence in this country.

 

[Billo_Really]

They all are. Show me one police shooting that was never investigated.


No, the video didn't show that. The helicopter circled around his vehicle and nobody could see where his hands were at the exact time the shots were fired. Her testimony is he reached into his SUV and that's when she opened fire.

He refused to listen to any of her (or her partners) orders. He was higher than a kite. He had plenty of run-ins with the law in the past. So what was a jury to do, convict her of something that likely didn't happen and no evidence of?

We don't send people to prison based on speculation. The jury made the right decision.



The jury couldn't find any law that the officer broke black boy. His death was caused by not complying with the officer and his health conditions--not what the officer did. No law was broken.



Except for the fact that forensic evidence showed that Brown did not have his hands in the air. Testimony by BLACK witnesses stated that Brown was running towards the officer when he shot. Not hard to believe given the fact that the officer already shot him once in his hand when he tried to take the officers weapon away from him in his own police car.

There is no evidence to suggest the officer did not shoot in self defense. Brown attacked the officer once already, when he tried for a second time, that's when the officer shot.



There are in there for drug sales. And BTW, over 50,000 Americans die every year from opioid narcotics, one of them being my cousins son a year and a half ago. She lost him at the age of 28. How is that victimless?



Only if I threatened the police with serious bodily harm or death.



No, the problem is you don't know or understand our laws. That's the problem. In any of your posted stories, please tell me one officer that broke the law and what that law was. And if you do that, show me the indisputable evidence of such law(s) being broke, because when you convict somebody, you have to do so on empirical evidence in this country.

You are just like average Germans in full Holocaust denial.

 

[GWV5903]

Nobody has any problem with them

Put the pipe down, they will steal from you as well...

Oh wait, you send all of them money

 

[Mac1958]

Both "sides" of this discussion have plenty of house-cleaning to do.

Until they're willing to do so, there will be no honest discussion of race.

Sorry, that's not true.

It is false accusations of racism that prevents ANY real discussion on race and many other issues.


And that game is played almost solely by the dems.

You really think that there is no racism coming the Right, that it has no improvements to make?
.

In another thread, Alabama being supposedly very racist came up.

I linked to voting records.

Alabama voted against Obama LESS than it voted against Kerry or HIllary.


Now, that is likely driven by increased turnout by blacks.

BUT, not that the much larger white population had no, or a very tiny (1%) anti Obama surge.


That's the power of racism in the deep south, on the right. ONe percent increased voting. Maybe.


No, the vast majority of what gets called racism from the Right, (not the Far Fringe "Right") is just something that some lefty mistakenly assumes is racism, or even purposefully lies for partisan reasons.


Do you want the link I used on Alabama voting?

No, there's nothing I can say that would matter. But thanks, your response is instructional.
.

Did anything I say matter to you?

Yes, definitely, which is why I thanked you. I was quite serious.

Having a conservative tell me that the Right has no improvements to make on race is like having a "progressive" tell me the same thing (and they do): That we're light years away from having a serious, constructive conversation on this difficult topic.

It's not good news for me, obviously, but it does confirm my opinion.
.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Having a conservative tell me that the Right has no improvements to make on race is like having a "progressive" tell me the same thing (and they do):

Improvements such as what?

What the right believes is that we live in a country of equal opportunity. If a person or group of people do not wish to participate in that opportunity, what are we supposed to do about that? How are we to improve on that? You can lead a horse to water............