Do We Need Religion?

[YWN666]

Here, let me help you out! Have your glasses on?

Anne Marie

You gonna answer the question?

Hi, I guess I missed this.

Yes, I have every reason to believe that Satan exists. Forget the notoriously infamous Tyrants who did well to indiscriminately torture and kill billions of people throughout the history of mankind. While that in itself could easily be viewed as evil, it's still a matter of idle supposition. Power can be evil as well. But why bother with that review. Why bother with the endless evidence of the result of the deliberate genocide of mankind. You could easily look that up yourself and make your own assessment. That doesn't convince me of anything. I have to actually be in the presence of such a person, if that is possible, to truly know it. And even then, it's not that easy unless you have an affinity to Jesus Christ or at the very least, well connected to your spiritual sensibility. You would have to understand pure love, to recognize pure evil.

Thus, my response comes from a more personal perspective. I have personally witnessed people in my life who have fallen to depths that were unimaginable. Have lost everything to drugs and eventual crime in getting drugs and being "saved" once they entered into the spiritual realm and began to understand Jesus Christ. I've seen depression that is almost unexplanable in people I grew up with after they have practiced forms of Satanic Worship. Like a dark cloud suddenly draped them and you get a sense of doom and negative energy when you are around them. You can tell when someone's just evil. You can see this in young adults as well, and even some children. There's just something they permeate that is not positive, almost scary. You can see the face of evil in their eyes, in their expression.

When you are in touch with your soul, you can see evil in people. You can even sense it in certain places. It could be anywhere. You just get those goose bumps and you almost can't understand what you're feeling unless you've had some time to figure it out. And they could be the nicest, most congenial individual in the crowd. But if you get close enough, good grief. You want to be as far away from them as possible.

Anne Marie

So to you, Satan is not a "being"?

 

[sidneyworld]

I have personally witnessed people in my life who have fallen to depths that were unimaginable. Have lost everything to drugs and eventual crime in getting drugs and being "saved" once they entered into the spiritual realm and began to understand Jesus Christ. I've seen depression that is almost unexplanable in people I grew up with after they have practiced forms of Satanic Worship.
Anne Marie

You bring up an interesting point. My theory is that people who believe in a god are in two categories - those that were born into it; those that use it as a crutch after having something terrible happens to them in their lives - whether it being a drug addict or having lost someone close early.
It's very rare to find a non-religious, balanced person with little or no drama in their lives suddenly turning to religion.

Yes, by why would they use God as a crutch when everything else they attempted, rehab, other drugs, drying out, intervention, did not work? Was God actually a crutch or a truly life changing experience? I know one guy in particular who was completely shunned from just about everyone in his life. He was stealing from everyone after losing his job, his children, his life to drugs. One night he was standing in front of his toilet, completely shit faced and did another line, and was getting sick, threw up and was wondering where he was getting more once his stomach had settled, looked at himself in the mirror and saw this cross on a chain hanging up on the wall behind him over the cabinet. It was reflecting the vanity light. At first he thought it might have been gold, something to sell to get more blow. He hadn't remembered that that cross was a gift from his aunt and that he had hung it up after he took it off a day after she gave it to him because he didn't like chains and was taking a shower. It was blocked by towels for over a year so he didn't remember about it. He pretty much stumbled over to it and touched the cross and had an immediate reaction, I guess like a vision. He said it was like others describe just before they believe their dying. His life flashed before him and he became extremely sick. He threw up for several minutes, was sweating profusely and suddenly he envisioned himself outside his current life. He remembers holding on to that cross and asking Jesus to help him. He wanted out. He felt humiliated and disgusted not only with himself but suddenly he was completely ashamed of himself. For the first time in many years he felt hopeless yet focused and suddenly he was okay.

He went to sleep, with no desire to do any drugs and that morning he was a completely changed man. He had gone back to people in his life little by little whom he apologized to, and called his aunt about what happened. She introduced him to a nondenominational congregation that he agreed to go and now he is one of the most cherished, inspiring, motivational leaders of that congregation, years in the making. When you meet this guy, which for me is just about a year now, you immediately feel a presence about him. He is completely normal, unevasive and can talk about anything with complete sincerity. He does not push God on anyone but if you should ask, what comes out of him is pure love and adoration. This man knows who Jesus is. And there is nothing that anyone could possibly do or say or attempt to prove to change that reality for him. And for me, he and I and countless other people for their own personal yet genuine reasons through their respective experiences are on the same page. We understand. We don't know everythingabout it. But we know full well that we were blessed for whatever reason by God's grace. There is nothing in this world that can get you through anything except for God and for Jesus Christ.

Now that is my reality, that is my joy. I don't condem those who don't believe, but if you need the kind of help where there is nothing else working, just sit down somewhere comfortable. Shut off noise if you can. Think of nothing except your desire for peace. Think nothing of yourself except your disgust, and I guarantee you, you will have this feeling that will take you on that road. And there is no compromise of your positive life, only the negative things that has destroyed it thus far. There is no demand for immediate sanction to abstinence or piety or formality in worship or prayer. Just talk to the sky and imagine that there is someone, something out there who actually knows all about you. That they have this ability to guide you. That they can take your pain away, your confusion and above all your fear of change and familiarity. If you think you simply can't cope and your life is useless and hopeless, if you really believe that, think it to God, think it to Jesus Christ. Feel it. And just when you think it's over and your a complete waste of a human being, a complete failure, you will have the surprise of your life.

You will find happiness beyond your imagination.

Anne Marie

 

[Diuretic]

A past good friend of mine was a bit of a dirtbag, on the turps a lot, a bit dissolute but also through his work, suffering quite a bit of stress and I mean churning in your guts stress.

One day he was out for a run (sobering up from a night on the tiles) and toddling across the footy field when - this is what he told me last time I heard from him - he saw a flash of light and didn't hear anything but swears he felt the presence of God in him.

He is now and has been for some years a pastor in a Christian church (not mainstream but not out there in holy la-la land either). It was a bit weird to hear my old, rakish mate sign off with "God bless you" and he wasn't kidding, he was serious.

He was frankly heading down the toilet at a rate of knots. Not much I could do to helpl him, he wasn't the listening type. But it seems he found God and far be it from me to criticise him, he's a better person (last time I heard from him) than he was, he wasn't a morally bad person, he was just dissolute (okay you can see where my values lie - don't flog me for it ).

Anyway, he's fulfilled. And no-one was hurt. And if I bump into him again (haven't had contact for a few years) I'll be happy to buy him a beer (or an orange juice).

Religion has no place in my life and as long as it doesn't infest secular public life where I am then I'm quite happy to go along as is, with people believing what they will and practising according their faith (for the bigots that means all religions).

 

[sidneyworld]

So to you, Satan is not a "being"?[/QUOTE]

Not a physical being, but certainly a real spiritual being. There is a communion of evil beings on this earth that have the ability to take over those who have shunned humanity, and wallow in hate, despair, massive self-destruction, and the manipulation and destruction of other likely suspects, not by any unfortunate circumstances, necessarily, but by having endulged in the worst possible temptations which affords them a very unstable miserable life.

You ever notice that the greediest, most arrogant and self-righteous people are the most miserable? The farther you reach away from compassion and love and away from any sense of humanity, the closer you reach to evil.

In any case, there are fallen angels who walk with Satan. Scripture explains that Earth is Satan's paradise. That Earth is actually hell. And that the challenge of humanity is to rise above that evil through our free will. If you look around, it's nearly impossible to dismiss that perspective, even if you don't believe.

Anne Marie

 

[Diuretic]

For me evil is a metaphor for the workings of the reptilian part of our brains, you know the bit that handles all the really unsophisticated stuff like, "Danger Will Robinson - is it time to fight or shoot through in a hurry?" and the stuff that does the raw appetite stuff like lust (well it has to have some positive aspects). If we let that reptilian brain control us then all kinds of bad things happen to us and those within striking distance. Here we have a perfectly nice cortex that controls cognition as well as other stuff like voluntary movement, vision, hearing, speech and the rest of it, but sometimes even that great grey ravelled knot can't keep control over that reptile inside us.

Or it could just be that Id we have, always lurking, flanked by Ego and Superego but waiting for its chance to express itself in socially unacceptable ways.

"Psychoanalytic theories suggest that man is essentially a battlefield, he is a dark cellar in which a maiden aunt and a sex-crazed monkey are locked in mortal combat, the affair being refereed by a rather nervous bank clerk. ......"
-- from the Bulletin of the British Psychological Society

 

[JBeukema]

Hi, I guess I missed this.

Yes, I have every reason to believe that Satan exists. Forget the notoriously infamous Tyrants who did well to indiscriminately torture and kill billions of people throughout the history of mankind.

yes, do forget them,seeing as they in no way support your assertion

Thus, my response comes from a more personal perspective.

Personal anecdotes mean nothing

You can see the face of evil in their eyes, in their expression.

A lot of words for not presented an iota of evidence that 'satan' exists

 

[sidneyworld]

Hi, I guess I missed this.

Yes, I have every reason to believe that Satan exists. Forget the notoriously infamous Tyrants who did well to indiscriminately torture and kill billions of people throughout the history of mankind.

yes, do forget them,seeing as they in no way support your assertion

Thus, my response comes from a more personal perspective.

Personal anecdotes mean nothing

You can see the face of evil in their eyes, in their expression.

A lot of words for not presented an iota of evidence that 'satan' exists

I was talking about you!



Anne Marie

 

[JBeukema]

Looking into my eyes, you will see a deep love for humanity and an indescribable desire to see that which is best for all Mankind.

 

[sidneyworld]

Looking into my eyes, you will see a deep love for humanity and an indescribable desire to see that which is best for all Mankind.

Oh baby, I'll jump into your "fire" anytime. Just don't tell Echo! I'll have to defend myself at that point.



Anne Marie

 

[Diuretic]

I'm always a bit worried when I read stuff like "a deep love for humanity" and so on. I admit to being somewhat indifferent about humanity save for those closest to me. I also have known in the past people who professed a concern for humanity but couldn't give a flying fuck about people. At least I admit my indifference

 

[mightypeon]

So, beeing an Agnostic a very small step away from an atheist, here is my take:

Some facts:
-It is totally possible to be a productive, happy and social person without beeing in any way religious
-It is totally possible to be a productive, happy and social person while beeing religious

I strongly believe that a choice should be made available to everyone. Since a vast number of (powerfull and influential) religions say that they have the only truth and everyone else goes to hell for eternity, one may argue that the choice of the religion could, if religions are true, be the most important choice made during a lifetime.
However, your own religion will usually be defined by where you grew up, by the religion of your parents, by the religion of your teachers, and by the time in which you grew up.
None of that would be in any way your personal choice.
So, why would any "just" god judge us upon a choice we did not really made?
If he wouldnt do that, than for what reason did god "invent" churches, inquisitions, crusades, Jihads and the Holocaust?

Personally, I do not think that anyone should be in hell for all eternity. After all, there is no such thing as an infinite crime (for a crime to be infinite, the criminal must have had absolute power, and absolute power does not exist). However, beeing christian, muslim or Jew would mean to believe in the fact that everyone who does not believe what I do goes to hell. I am not going to be a part of such a group, since that would break the semi religious tenet that I follow,
"act upon others like you wish to be acted upon".

I also believe that this simple sentence already suffices to get the "good" that may come from religions without most of the "evil" sideeffects.

 

[sidneyworld]

I'm always a bit worried when I read stuff like "a deep love for humanity" and so on. I admit to being somewhat indifferent about humanity save for those closest to me. I also have known in the past people who professed a concern for humanity but couldn't give a flying fuck about people. At least I admit my indifference

lol. I know what you mean. JB is just joking. He's love for humanity equates to one person, himself.

Anne Marie

 

[JBeukema]

Sidney is a liar.

Peon, gnosticism and theism address two different questions.

 

[sidneyworld]

Sidney is a liar.

Peon, gnosticism and theism address two different questions.

More "isms" from JB. You should work with Webster's Dictionary.



Anne Marie

 

[JBeukema]

Anne, why don't you just stop posting until you have something intelligent to say?

 

[sidneyworld]

Anne, why don't you just stop posting until you have something intelligent to say?

Ahhhhh Sheddup.

am

 

[JBeukema]

Ahhhhh Sheddup.

am

Thank you for demonstrating the brilliant and intriguing commentary you have to add to the discussion. This thread has been greatly enriched and your input really cuts to the heart of the issue at hand

 

[sidneyworld]

Ahhhhh Sheddup.

am

Thank you for demonstrating the brilliant and intriguing commentary you have to add to the discussion. This thread has been greatly enriched and your input really cuts to the heart of the issue at hand

It's about time you realized that! Thank you, JB!

Hugs and kisses.....

Anne Marie

 

[JBeukema]

The sad part is that Anne takers herself seriously

 

[sidneyworld]

The sad part is that Anne takers herself seriously

Hey, I feel your pain, Man! With an ego like yours, it must be torture.

Lighten up, dude. Or just light up. Whatever it takes.

God speed!

Anne Marie