Do You Believe In God?

[peach174]

Here's what happened. I grew up in the Lutheran church which I hated and could not wait to be old enough to STOP going. Joined a Bible group in College, got involved some but was derailed when I fell in love. Didn't think much about Christianity until my kids were ages 12 and 5 and I felt they were in need of some "moral teaching" so started getting them involved in Church. I believe God revealed himself to me during Church during a sermon.

I'm not dying or afraid
I'm not sure about B. I never thought of myself that way, but, opinions vary.
Definitely not C.
D Have I "visually" seen the person of God in bodily form? No, but I do believe I have seen and heard Him in other ways.........

Thanks for having the conversation. I'm not attacking you. I think you are great. Wish more were like you. But I think you're suffering from cognitive dissonance. That's where you just brush off the things that might not make sense to you. Makes you feel better. Better to be safe. Even if its a lie its a good lie.

I just don't think ignorance is good even if it is blissful.

Believing in God is not ignorance.

When you understand the history of man and science it sure seems to be

Why are you so certain that Man's theories (educated guess)is so correct?
Especially when it has to be corrected so many times. Man has some things right but not all.
You put your faith in Man's laws and theories.
I put mine in Gods.

There are only man's laws.

No there isn't and you profess that you follow science?
Laws of Nature (God's laws) are the "principles" which govern the natural phenomena of the world.
The natural world "obeys" the Laws of Nature.

 

[Pogo]

Do you realize it's impossible for a non believer to believe? I just tried and you can't convince yourself of something you know isn't true.

If there is a Christian God he is cruel to make me this way then burn me forever for it.

And no I can't choose to believe. You have to really believe, don't you?

Yes. But you have to be of an open mind and heart, and in a submissive state. God has a way of breaking people (that need it) in order to come to Him. You can't just make yourself believe, no. It has to be SHOWN to you (how, where, when.... I don't know....) Sometime our lives it will happen, and if you reject Him, that's on the person that rejected Him.

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

 

[sealybobo]

Do you realize it's impossible for a non believer to believe? I just tried and you can't convince yourself of something you know isn't true.

If there is a Christian God he is cruel to make me this way then burn me forever for it.

And no I can't choose to believe. You have to really believe, don't you?

Yes. But you have to be of an open mind and heart, and in a submissive state. God has a way of breaking people (that need it) in order to come to Him. You can't just make yourself believe, no. It has to be SHOWN to you (how, where, when.... I don't know....) Sometime our lives it will happen, and if you reject Him, that's on the person that rejected Him.

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

 

[Pogo]

Do you realize it's impossible for a non believer to believe? I just tried and you can't convince yourself of something you know isn't true.

If there is a Christian God he is cruel to make me this way then burn me forever for it.

And no I can't choose to believe. You have to really believe, don't you?

Yes. But you have to be of an open mind and heart, and in a submissive state. God has a way of breaking people (that need it) in order to come to Him. You can't just make yourself believe, no. It has to be SHOWN to you (how, where, when.... I don't know....) Sometime our lives it will happen, and if you reject Him, that's on the person that rejected Him.

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

 

[sealybobo]

Do you realize it's impossible for a non believer to believe? I just tried and you can't convince yourself of something you know isn't true.

If there is a Christian God he is cruel to make me this way then burn me forever for it.

And no I can't choose to believe. You have to really believe, don't you?

Yes. But you have to be of an open mind and heart, and in a submissive state. God has a way of breaking people (that need it) in order to come to Him. You can't just make yourself believe, no. It has to be SHOWN to you (how, where, when.... I don't know....) Sometime our lives it will happen, and if you reject Him, that's on the person that rejected Him.

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

 

[Pogo]

Do you realize it's impossible for a non believer to believe? I just tried and you can't convince yourself of something you know isn't true.

If there is a Christian God he is cruel to make me this way then burn me forever for it.

And no I can't choose to believe. You have to really believe, don't you?

Yes. But you have to be of an open mind and heart, and in a submissive state. God has a way of breaking people (that need it) in order to come to Him. You can't just make yourself believe, no. It has to be SHOWN to you (how, where, when.... I don't know....) Sometime our lives it will happen, and if you reject Him, that's on the person that rejected Him.

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

uuhhhh............. yyyyeah OK...... I guess....

I'm simply saying, I don't "reject" entities that never asked for recognition. I reject entities who point at the sky at nothing.

There is in fact a rejection; the distinction is about who is being rejected.

As for your offer, sending "tens" through the mails is probably problematic. Just send me the cash (in large bills) and we'll call it even.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes. But you have to be of an open mind and heart, and in a submissive state. God has a way of breaking people (that need it) in order to come to Him. You can't just make yourself believe, no. It has to be SHOWN to you (how, where, when.... I don't know....) Sometime our lives it will happen, and if you reject Him, that's on the person that rejected Him.

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

uuhhhh............. yyyyeah OK...... I guess....

I'm simply saying, I don't "reject" entities that never asked for recognition. I reject entities who point at the sky at nothing.

There is in fact a rejection; the distinction is about who is being rejected.

As for your offer, sending "tens" through the mails is probably problematic. Just send me the cash (in large bills) and we'll call it even.

I think I should have initially replied to the person you were talking to. I was trying to help you. I was explaining how you aren't rejecting God. You simply don't believe he exists.

 

[emilynghiem]

Do you realize it's impossible for a non believer to believe? I just tried and you can't convince yourself of something you know isn't true.

If there is a Christian God he is cruel to make me this way then burn me forever for it.

And no I can't choose to believe. You have to really believe, don't you?

Yes. But you have to be of an open mind and heart, and in a submissive state. God has a way of breaking people (that need it) in order to come to Him. You can't just make yourself believe, no. It has to be SHOWN to you (how, where, when.... I don't know....) Sometime our lives it will happen, and if you reject Him, that's on the person that rejected Him.

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

Dear sealybobo
I agree with part of your point, that it is unfair to judge Secular Gentiles for rejecting that which isn't proven,
given that this is the nature of Secular Gentiles to seek understanding first.

So yes there is a difference between rejecting the religious approach, vs. rejecting whatever is the truth
about God. if it isn't being effectively communicated or proven/established, then that is a separate issue.

However, there is also the factor of not wanting to hear, see or accept proof.
If people do not forgive each other, that ill will or negative mutual mistrust can block the process, too.

Even if it isn't fair to judge either side, for not trusting each other to seek or speak the truth,
that mutual problem can still block the process so it does become impossible to clarify anything.

Whose fault is that? It tends to be mutual.
Both sides would eventually need to agree to drop the biases and barriers,
and they might be able to resolve their perceptual differences
in order to discuss the common truth underneath.

 

[Bonzi]

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

uuhhhh............. yyyyeah OK...... I guess....

I'm simply saying, I don't "reject" entities that never asked for recognition. I reject entities who point at the sky at nothing.

There is in fact a rejection; the distinction is about who is being rejected.

As for your offer, sending "tens" through the mails is probably problematic. Just send me the cash (in large bills) and we'll call it even.

I think I should have initially replied to the person you were talking to. I was trying to help you. I was explaining how you aren't rejecting God. You simply don't believe he exists.

You can't ultimately "reject" God, but you can refuse his free gift of salvation.
You can rebel, and choose to live by own rules, but ultimately, he's God.
If you believe in God, there is no other way to think... not as a Christian anyway.

 

[emilynghiem]

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

uuhhhh............. yyyyeah OK...... I guess....

I'm simply saying, I don't "reject" entities that never asked for recognition. I reject entities who point at the sky at nothing.

There is in fact a rejection; the distinction is about who is being rejected.

As for your offer, sending "tens" through the mails is probably problematic. Just send me the cash (in large bills) and we'll call it even.

I think I should have initially replied to the person you were talking to. I was trying to help you. I was explaining how you aren't rejecting God. You simply don't believe he exists.

You can't ultimately "reject" God, but you can refuse his free gift of salvation.
You can rebel, and choose to live by own rules, but ultimately, he's God.
If you believe in God, there is no other way to think... not as a Christian anyway.

Dear Bonzi I agree with most of what you say.
For the last part, I believe the nontheists who believe in nature and wisdom,
and impersonal approaches to God can be equally "neighbors in Christ"
as believers who relate to a personified God. There are both the
secular gentiles under natural laws AND the believers under scriptural laws and authority.
Both paths find fulfillment as one in Christ or by conscience uniting us all.

I find there are two different approaches that all other ways branch off from:
* the secular approach that is impersonal using science and other natural laws
* the spiritual church based approach that relates to a personified God and Jesus

This doesn't make someone Christian or Unchristian if they are one path or the other;
what makes someone "reject or accept" the full spirit of saving Grace in Christ Jesus
is how much we FORGIVE and accept truth and healing from conflict and division.

It's not a matter of label or grouping, by believer or by nontheist,
but by whether we have consciously committed to forgive and receive all things, or we are still rejecting
and dividing from each other based on fear, ill will or unforgiveness.

I find the forgiving people can reconcile "in Christ" or "by conscience"
regardless of theist or nontheist views, as long as we fully receive healing and forgiveness
so our hearts and minds are clear, which enables us to make peace despite our differences.

As long as we live by the spirit of Restorative Justice (whether nontheist or believer)
that's the same as the spirit of Christ Jesus. So even atheists can believe in
"universal peace and justice for all," and that's the same as faith in "Jesus" to save all humanity.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes. But you have to be of an open mind and heart, and in a submissive state. God has a way of breaking people (that need it) in order to come to Him. You can't just make yourself believe, no. It has to be SHOWN to you (how, where, when.... I don't know....) Sometime our lives it will happen, and if you reject Him, that's on the person that rejected Him.

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

Dear sealybobo
I agree with part of your point, that it is unfair to judge Secular Gentiles for rejecting that which isn't proven,
given that this is the nature of Secular Gentiles to seek understanding first.

So yes there is a difference between rejecting the religious approach, vs. rejecting whatever is the truth
about God. if it isn't being effectively communicated or proven/established, then that is a separate issue.

However, there is also the factor of not wanting to hear, see or accept proof.
If people do not forgive each other, that ill will or negative mutual mistrust can block the process, too.

Even if it isn't fair to judge either side, for not trusting each other to seek or speak the truth,
that mutual problem can still block the process so it does become impossible to clarify anything.

Whose fault is that? It tends to be mutual.
Both sides would eventually need to agree to drop the biases and barriers,
and they might be able to resolve their perceptual differences
in order to discuss the common truth underneath.

I fault people who see things that aren't there and people who are so open minded they are conned because of wishful thinking.

 

[sealybobo]

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

uuhhhh............. yyyyeah OK...... I guess....

I'm simply saying, I don't "reject" entities that never asked for recognition. I reject entities who point at the sky at nothing.

There is in fact a rejection; the distinction is about who is being rejected.

As for your offer, sending "tens" through the mails is probably problematic. Just send me the cash (in large bills) and we'll call it even.

I think I should have initially replied to the person you were talking to. I was trying to help you. I was explaining how you aren't rejecting God. You simply don't believe he exists.

You can't ultimately "reject" God, but you can refuse his free gift of salvation.
You can rebel, and choose to live by own rules, but ultimately, he's God.
If you believe in God, there is no other way to think... not as a Christian anyway.

Again you are assuming the dude is real. Wrong.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

uuhhhh............. yyyyeah OK...... I guess....

I'm simply saying, I don't "reject" entities that never asked for recognition. I reject entities who point at the sky at nothing.

There is in fact a rejection; the distinction is about who is being rejected.

As for your offer, sending "tens" through the mails is probably problematic. Just send me the cash (in large bills) and we'll call it even.

I think I should have initially replied to the person you were talking to. I was trying to help you. I was explaining how you aren't rejecting God. You simply don't believe he exists.

You can't ultimately "reject" God, but you can refuse his free gift of salvation.
You can rebel, and choose to live by own rules, but ultimately, he's God.
If you believe in God, there is no other way to think... not as a Christian anyway.

Dear Bonzi I agree with most of what you say.
For the last part, I believe the nontheists who believe in nature and wisdom,
and impersonal approaches to God can be equally "neighbors in Christ"
as believers who relate to a personified God. There are both the
secular gentiles under natural laws AND the believers under scriptural laws and authority.
Both paths find fulfillment as one in Christ or by conscience uniting us all.

I find there are two different approaches that all other ways branch off from:
* the secular approach that is impersonal using science and other natural laws
* the spiritual church based approach that relates to a personified God and Jesus

This doesn't make someone Christian or Unchristian if they are one path or the other;
what makes someone "reject or accept" the full spirit of saving Grace in Christ Jesus
is how much we FORGIVE and accept truth and healing from conflict and division.

It's not a matter of label or grouping, by believer or by nontheist,
but by whether we have consciously committed to forgive and receive all things, or we are still rejecting
and dividing from each other based on fear, ill will or unforgiveness.

I find the forgiving people can reconcile "in Christ" or "by conscience"
regardless of theist or nontheist views, as long as we fully receive healing and forgiveness
so our hearts and minds are clear, which enables us to make peace despite our differences.

As long as we live by the spirit of Restorative Justice (whether nontheist or believer)
that's the same as the spirit of Christ Jesus. So even atheists can believe in
"universal peace and justice for all," and that's the same as faith in "Jesus" to save all humanity.

No approach to God personal or impersonal. Sorry.

 

[Bonzi]

I fault people who see things that aren't there and people who are so open minded they are conned because of wishful thinking.

Why do you fault them in your mind?
If someone believes in or worships Satan does that bother you too?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

 

[emilynghiem]

There's a big difference between "rejecting Him"...
... and rejecting the agenda of the people who made "Him" up.

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

Dear sealybobo
I agree with part of your point, that it is unfair to judge Secular Gentiles for rejecting that which isn't proven,
given that this is the nature of Secular Gentiles to seek understanding first.

So yes there is a difference between rejecting the religious approach, vs. rejecting whatever is the truth
about God. if it isn't being effectively communicated or proven/established, then that is a separate issue.

However, there is also the factor of not wanting to hear, see or accept proof.
If people do not forgive each other, that ill will or negative mutual mistrust can block the process, too.

Even if it isn't fair to judge either side, for not trusting each other to seek or speak the truth,
that mutual problem can still block the process so it does become impossible to clarify anything.

Whose fault is that? It tends to be mutual.
Both sides would eventually need to agree to drop the biases and barriers,
and they might be able to resolve their perceptual differences
in order to discuss the common truth underneath.

I fault people who see things that aren't there and people who are so open minded they are conned because of wishful thinking.

We can fault whoever we find fault with, but the real issue is forgiving faults so we can correct them.
If we don't forgive, it causes fights and barriers making it harder to fix the problems.
So why judge people for things in ways that obstructs resolution?

by experience, it will eventually become clear that forgiveness may be the first step toward corrections.
Forgiveness is more important than whether we make mistakes in judgment because that's going to happen.
We just can't let those faults stand in the way of reconciling relations and using those to establish truth.

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

Dear Skull Pilot
Do you believe in Justice?
if so where does this concept come from?
Do you believe we will achieve Justice by Peace
or Justice by war?

 

[Bonzi]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

Do you believe in any kind of God?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

Dear Skull Pilot
Do you believe in Justice?
if so where does this concept come from?
Do you believe we will achieve Justice by Peace
or Justice by war?

Justice is a human concept.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

Do you believe in any kind of God?

I describe myself as an agnostic with atheistic leanings.

If there is a supreme being then it is my thought that it would be so far beyond our understanding that we would never truly be able to understand or know it in any meaningful way.