Do you believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?

[sky dancer]

"Opposition to slavery in the United States predates the nation's independence. As early as 1688, congregations of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) actively protested slavery. The Quaker Testimony of Equality would have an influence on slavery in Pennsylvania.

The rise of abolitionism in nineteenth century politics was mirrored in religious debate; slavery among Christians was generally dependent on the attitudes of the community the lived in. This was true in Protestant and Catholic churches. Religious integrity affected the white slave-holding Christian population. The Bible was used and manipulated to support the institution of slavery and inhumane practices. Crimes such as murder were justifiable if it was inflicted upon African-Americans. Christianity was used to suppress and conform a people. Slaveholders, priests, and those tied to the Church undermined the beliefs of the millions of African-American converts.

As abolitionism gained popularity in the northern states, it strained relations between northern and southern churches.
Northern preachers increasingly preached against slavery in the 1830s. In the 1840s, slavery began to divide denominations. This, in turn, weakened social ties between the North and South, allowing the nation to become even more divided in the 1850s.

The issue of slavery in the United States came to a conclusion with the American Civil War."

Christianity and slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Agnapostate]

Or "He is without sin shall cast the first stone."

I'm not misquoting the bible though. Especially when I'm posting full parts.

Incidentally, the story of Jesus forgiving the woman caught in adultery found in John 7:53-8:11, the passage in which that quote is found, is also likely to be a later addition to the Bible. It is not found in Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus, or the other oldest and most reliable manuscripts.

 

[sky dancer]

"Many liberal theologians suggest that the belief in the virgin birth was:

Unknown to Paul.

Imported into Christianity from many of the Pagan religions of the Mediterranean area circa 70 CE.

Was largely based on a Hebrew to Greek mistranslation in the Hebrew Scriptures. (Isaiah 7:14).

Was promoted by the author of the gospel of Matthew. (Matthew 1:23).

Was promoted by an anonymous author in a brief text that was later grafted onto the beginning of the Gospel of Luke. (Luke 1:26-35)

Was denied by the author(s) of the gospel of John.

They believe that the virgin birth and immaculate conception are myths. Jesus was actually conceived in the normal way, as a result of sexual activity with a man. However, there is a major gap between the liberal beliefs of liberal and mainline theologians and the much more traditional beliefs of the laity in the these denominations."Christian views of the paternity and conception of Jesus

 

[Care4all]

Was she pregnant then? Sorry for any confusion on my part.

But if the sixth months means June then it's wrong. Evidence today points to Jesus being born in July.

And if she was pregnant? How far along was she? Because if she was, then unless she was 3 months pregnant then giving birth in December would be impossible.

ROBERT!

the calendar WAS NOT the same as today's gregorian calendar, a Hebrew calendar was used back then....I believe it begins in October as it's first month if memory serves me, but i would have to check.

And I had heard that it was September as the actual month of His Birth....September 11th....i kid not.

NONE of that matters...

You really are a "Doubting Thomas" aren't you? I guess that's ok, Jesus understood Thomas and accepted his doubt by showing him truth.

Care

 

[sky dancer]

My problem with the virgin birth has to do with feminism. I tend to view the Bible as wisdom teaching--not to be understood literally.

This book looks interesting. I may see if I can order it from the library.
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Putting-Away-Childish-Things-Believe/dp/0060668601[/ame]

 

[Care4all]

well, we have a gnostic book of the Bible found among the Dead sea scrolls estimated to be from the 2nd century called the Book of James that speaks of Mary's mother and Father being OLD and Barren and praying and fasting to God for a child, and a miraculous conception of Mary taking place in her mom.... thus the label of Immaculate Conception for Mary, who was later to carry Jesus in her pure vessel....

So it goes beyond Mary being a virgin when she conceived, but her Mother also conceived through God, Mary.....as the story from James says....

It's amazing what has been discovered the last 100 years!

 

[Agnapostate]

"Many liberal theologians suggest that the belief in the virgin birth was:

Unknown to Paul.

Imported into Christianity from many of the Pagan religions of the Mediterranean area circa 70 CE.

Was largely based on a Hebrew to Greek mistranslation in the Hebrew Scriptures. (Isaiah 7:14).

Was promoted by the author of the gospel of Matthew. (Matthew 1:23).

Was promoted by an anonymous author in a brief text that was later grafted onto the beginning of the Gospel of Luke. (Luke 1:26-35)

Was denied by the author(s) of the gospel of John.

They believe that the virgin birth and immaculate conception are myths. Jesus was actually conceived in the normal way, as a result of sexual activity with a man. However, there is a major gap between the liberal beliefs of liberal and mainline theologians and the much more traditional beliefs of the laity in the these denominations."Christian views of the paternity and conception of Jesus

Too true. Scribes have intentionally altered manuscripts in the past in order to emphasize the alleged virgin birth of Jesus. For instance, the original version of Like 2:33 says of Jesus "And His father and mother marveled at those things which were spoken of Him." Later scribes were displeased with the statement that Joseph was his father, and thus altered the text so that it read "And Joseph and His mother marveled at those things which were spoken of Him."

A similar alteration occurs a few verses later when the tale of Jesus's stay in Jerusalem without his parents' knowledge is being related. The original text read "When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And His parents did not know it." But scribes later altered it to say, "When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother did not know it." They were displeased with the mention of Joseph and Mary as Jesus's parents, obviously.

In the next few verses, Mary then says, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously." Unsurprisingly, this is occasionally altered to read, "We have sought you anxiously."

 

[Agnapostate]

You really are a "Doubting Thomas" aren't you? I guess that's ok, Jesus understood Thomas and accepted his doubt by showing him truth.

Care

I don't suppose you would happen to be referring to the Gospel of Thomas.

 

[sky dancer]

I read Elaine Pagels books a long time ago. She is a great resource on the Gnostic Gospels.

 

[Agnapostate]

I'd say I've learned everything I know from Bart Ehrman.

 

[Modbert]

ROBERT!

the calendar WAS NOT the same as today's gregorian calendar, a Hebrew calendar was used back then....I believe it begins in October as it's first month if memory serves me, but i would have to check.

And I had heard that it was September as the actual month of His Birth....September 11th....i kid not.

NONE of that matters...

You really are a "Doubting Thomas" aren't you? I guess that's ok, Jesus understood Thomas and accepted his doubt by showing him truth.

Care

Not a doubting thomas, rather one who just wants the fact.

I understand the calendar back then wasn't the same as today. Though if your calendar is true then the sixth month would be around april.

None of it really does matter whether he was born or not, but it'd be nice to know.

Though it does call into question whether the bible is "perfect" as some would want it to be.

 

[Agnapostate]

It certainly does, and it's not surprising that people such as AllieBabble try to ignore that.

 

[sky dancer]

The inerrancy of the Bible is a basic Christian tenet. In other words, the Bible is always right, even when it's wrong.

 

[XVZ]

That's the thing that has always bothered me about the Bible. Neither God or Jesus who were suppose to be perfect spoke out against slavery.

They said treat your masters with kindness in double so you could try to convert them so they may see the light but never came out and condemned it.

Why? You would think the ownership of one person over another goes against the whole everybody is equal idea.

That is because the concept that everyone should be treated equally is a modern world view. The Bible is barbaric because it was written by a barbaric tribe of humans. The New Testament is an improvement from the Old Testament but that is just a testament to the civilization of Roman times compared to the times of the Old Testament writers. Make no mistake... the Bible is no different of a world view dreamed up by mere men like any other mythology dreamed up by other cultures. For one to think otherwise takes quite a lot of mental derangement!

Jesus, or Joshua as his name would translate properly into English, was probably just a Jewish rabbi with non-traditional preachings that were a lot more loving and less barbaric (it is really hard to be more barbaric than the Old Testament). Such preachers pop up throughout history and create a cult following. Some are more successful than others. Even today we have numerous cults with followers that believe their leader is some kind of deity or communicates with a deity. There is no evidence any such thing is true. Christianity is no different from such cults, though it is one of the more successful ones along with Islam and their cult following of Mohammad.

Was Jesus born of a virgin? No. It is just a part of the mythology that the dopey followers made up.

 

[sky dancer]

There's a difference between myth and wisdom teachings IMO. I think the Bible is wisdom teachings--which means it is NOT meant to be understood literally, but to be contemplated, reflected on deeply, and put into practice as wisdom.

I think it takes study and devotion to bring out the enlightened teachings in the Bible. The evidence is in whether the Christians using the Bible are able to bring forth Christ-like qualities by their practice of prayer, study, contemplation and meditation on the Bible teachings.

 

[garyd]

Okay let's make it simple either Jesus is God incarnate or we are all wasting our time.

 

[Shadow]

Let him continue to be a hypocrite sky. He really has offered nothing to this conversation except insults, mistruths, bullshit, and just agreeing with others work which has been refuted.

You are funny (stupid not ha ha). You refuted nothing,infact when you were shown that slaves indeed had rights per the bible,which blew your whole argument. You convieniently ignored that part and then started another argument...and ran off on a tangent calling people names and bringing up the shell fish crap (which you were wrong about also btw). Way to deflect..yet again..

Get off your high horse Mr. Jr Achievement.

 

[Modbert]

You are funny (stupid not ha ha). You refuted nothing,infact when you were shown that slaves indeed had rights per the bible,which blew your whole argument. You convieniently ignored that part and then started another argument...and ran off on a tangent calling people names and bringing up the shell fish crap (which you were wrong about also btw). Way to deflect..yet again..

Get off your high horse Mr. Jr Achievement.

I never showed that slaves indeed had rights. I have already proven slaves had NO rights in bibical times. Perhaps you're mistaking my arguments for Allie's.

 

[jeffrockit]

LOL ... in WHICH version of the christian bible? Then also EVERY bible for almost all religions says the EXACT same thing. Which is it? If one book can be 'divinely inspired' then why not other books? There are many christs (it's not a name), so are all those religions christian to just because they follow a christ, just ones with different names. So ... you spoke directly to your god and he actually told you in person all this to? Hmm ... perhaps you should have him show up to everyone else because it seems silly to expect others to believe just one persons words. "The question is never whether someone IS lying, but why."

Nope only 1 Christ though he is called by many names.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Okay.....I'm gonna piss off a whole lot of people now........

Jesus DID have a virgin birth.

Joseph and Mary were heavy petting when premature ejaculation occurred. Scared them so bad they didn't have sex until after Jesus was born.

You may now throw stones............