Zone1 Do you get a lot of misogyny when you ditch MARY in your religion?

[hadit]

We read Christ constantly saying, "Sins are forgiven." People heard, "Your sins are forgiven." This is one of Jesus' practices that the Apostles continued. People could hear, "Your sins are forgiven." The other part of confession is that all will be brought to light before Christ. Sins, while kept confidential within the confessional room, are brought forth into light and spoken aloud. We still hear the words Christ spoke: "Your sins are forgiven."

Then why is the first thing said, "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned"? Is that addressed to the priest or to God Himself? Do the penitents and the priests both understand that the priest cannot forgive sin, that only God can?

 

[hadit]

speaking truth is arrogant now.

outa here

Wait, aren't you going to show me in Scripture where Christ founded the CC and no other denomination is valid?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Then why is the first thing said, "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned"? Is that addressed to the priest or to God Himself? Do the penitents and the priests both understand that the priest cannot forgive sin, that only God can?

maybe you ought to tellthat to Jesus who instituted the Sacrament of Penance

and said

"Which is easier, to say: 'pick up your mat and walk' or 'I forgive you of your sins'?"

You belligerent protestants would tell Jesus himself, if he appeared before you but didn't quite look like you think Jesus should look,

"Go away! Only God can forgive sins"

 

[notmyfault2020]

Wait, aren't you going to show me in Scripture where Christ founded the CC and no other denomination is valid?

you are the ones who go by scripture alone. Unfortunately, not all of God and all His Truth can be shoved into a relatively small, FINITE book

 

[Meriweather]

"Forgive me Father, for I have sinned"?

"Bless me, Father for I have sinned."

 

[notmyfault2020]

You belligerent protestants would argue with Jesus himself if he appeared before you but didn't quite look like you think Jesus should look,

That's it, right there.. You don't like Jesus's Church because it doesn't look like you think it should. But that means that you always trust your own and never anyone else's perceptions/ideas, knowledge.. etc.

In other words, you have created God in your own image and.. well, who knows what all nefarious stuff that entails..

 

[hadit]

Founded=foundation. The foundation of the Catholic Church is Christ. The seven sacraments of the Catholic Church are founded upon the actions in the life of Jesus. What Jesus did, we continue to celebrate. His teachings we read, study, and live. Everything the Church is can be traced back to Christ. He is our foundation, therefore our founder. Without Jesus Christ, there would be no Catholic Church.

Good, good. Other denominations to that as well. Due to the frailties of man, however, none follow Christ completely, and all find parts of Scripture that echo culture and they fixate on how past generations applied Christ's teachings without making them relevant for today. Take my upbringing for just one example. I was raised Conservative Conference Mennonite. That would make us one step away from being Amish. In fact, my grandfather left the Amish, so I know a little about past things being done first for a good reason, then held onto without being made relevant for today. One example, our church services were held without musical instruments. That's certainly not Biblical, but was done by Menno Simons, the Catholic priest the denomination was named after, as a revolt against the lavish orchestral concerts in the CC of his day. He wanted to peel away musical ornamentation to get to real worship. Also, when he met with fellow believers, the CC didn't like it very much so they had to keep their services quiet to prevent being arrested. Why was that important to the 20th century American church I grew up in? It wasn't a spiritual commandment, but it was a tradition that some found valuable. Plus, where else can you find hundreds of farmers able to sing in 4-part harmony, some who couldn't read music at all?

All true Christians follow the same Gospel, that of Christ, and he gave us a very, very simple formula to follow:

1. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.".
2. “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.”
3. “The second is equally important: Love your neighbor as yourself. No other commandment is greater than these”

Nothing about catechisms, infant baptism, priests, nothing. You get those right, you're in relationship with the living God and He will reveal Himself to you. The name on the door of the church building where you meet with fellow Christians becomes irrelevant. That is my problem with claims that this or that denomination is the real one and all the others are false. The true Church of Christ extends far beyond artificial denominational barriers.

 

[hadit]

"Bless me, Father for I have sinned."

Thank you, now, do the penitent and the priest think that the priest has the power and authority to forgive sin, given that Christ stated only God has that authority?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Thank you, now, do the penitent and the priest think that the priest has the power and authority to forgive sin, given that Christ stated only God has that authority?

NOT true

Read my posts

Jesus DID give the power to forgive sins to MAN

Maybe you should go by that Bible all Protestants claim to know and revere.. assuming you have read it

 

[hadit]

You belligerent protestants would argue with Jesus himself if he appeared before you but didn't quite look like you think Jesus should look,

I'm not Protestant, I'm Anabaptist, since you seem to be hung up on labels. How should Jesus look? Like a 1st century Jew, of course. Not terribly tall by today's standards, swarthy skinned, fairly long hair, bearded, etc.

That's it, right there.. You don't like Jesus's Church because it doesn't look like you think it should. But that means that you always trust your own and never anyone else's perceptions/ideas, knowledge.. etc.

How about trusting in the Scriptures, then? We know that anyone speaking for God will not contradict the Scriptures, yes? That means the prosperity gospel is out before it gets started, for just one example. Infant baptism is out, as people were baptized as a public announcement that they were deciding to follow Christ and infants can't do that. If you contradict the Scriptures, you cannot be trusted as speaking for God, and there are a lot of charlatans out there.

In other words, you have created God in your own image and.. well, who knows what all nefarious stuff that entails..

I thought I remembered you saying this:

"Catholics don't go by sola scriptura, Bible alone."

How do you then escape from creating God in your own image, when you admit that you add to the Scriptures? Do you not give them equal authority as the Scriptures themselves? That just means you're at the mercy of whoever you place in positions of power over you and you can't hold them accountable to anything greater than themselves. A pope can be as corrupt as he wants as long as he makes pronouncements that clear him of guilt.

 

[hadit]

NOT true

Read my posts

Jesus DID give the power to forgive sins to MAN

Maybe you should go by that Bible all Protestants claim to know and revere.. assuming you have read it

Please quote the Scripture where He did that, and if you refer to John 20:23, look up the Greek used to understand the verb tenses.

 

[JustAGuy1]

NOT true

Read my posts

Jesus DID give the power to forgive sins to MAN

Maybe you should go by that Bible all Protestants claim to know and revere.. assuming you have read it

You're quite full of yourself kid.

 

[ReinyDays]

I don't know if that is necessary or not, but what if it were ceremonial only done benignly? I mean, up until recently, or maybe still, marriage rituals asked if the woman would love, honor and OBEY her husband! Looking at nature, things work best when there is an order with rules, like only one CEO or president of a company--- that doesn't mean it has to be hostile, punitive and cannot be done with love and care. Is the state equal to the fed? Do you have the same rights and powers as the government? Do you know any business where everyone working there has equal power and authority? So why did anyone ever think it would work in a marriage much less a society? History suggests that it HASN'T. WE may just be fooling ourselves with more PC.


Again, you quote an extreme example as if that were the only way it can be done. But likewise, also note that the Saudis have little or none of the social chaos and disorder WE have . . . .so. . . .

Males and females have profoundly different roles in the reproductive process ... to evaluate equality, we must first set a value on the woman's role in society ... [smile] ... and that's not for men to decide IMEIO ...

It's for God to dictate to Woman what her roll is ... I'm busy trying to understand what God's roll for me is ... exactly ... and generally, men need to worry about man-stuff and leave the women to their own devices ...

And remember ... one of the dangers of marriage is babies ... you've been warned ...

 

[The Irish Ram]

People who talk to theirSavior outside of the Churchsaid Savior gave us.. could be talking to the devil half the time

Why would Jesus give us a Church (as per Mt 1618) and then not give a rip if anyone is a member or adheres to its teachings?

But that's protestant "logic" for ya. They will answer that the true "church" came along when Martin Luther or some other heretic came along and fixed the old church.

Gee... I thought God never changes?

I thought the Church Christ himself founded would.. ditto: never change, seeing as how God never does?

But we Catholics are so silly, aren't we?

Wrong. That's Catholic "logic". Replace it with truth:
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice. Sheep follow their shepherd because they know him. If you know the Word, then you will know who you are talking to.
Pray for discernment if you are worried that you aren't familiar enough with Christ's voice to be able to tell the difference between Christ and Satan. Listen to what He taught the disciples. It's in the Book.

God said to 1. take all things to him in prayer and 2. to pray without ceasing. That means in the kitchen, in the car, on a walk, in the shower, in bed at night, in bed in the morning, in a church, in a foxhole...
If you only talk to your Father when you stop by a particular building, then you won't know him well enough to discern who you are talking to half the time.

Same thing with Communion. It works just as well with a cup of coffee and a piece of toast. Pomp has nothing to do with it. The point is to do it often in remembrance.
1Cor. 11: 25 This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
You don't need a priest and a chalice once in a while to remember Him. Use what is available to you daily and do it often. It will be counted a righteousness on your part. A sacrifice to the Lord.

Again, you won't find Christ in the Vatican when He returns. HIS CHURCH IS A JEWISH TEMPLE. He is a Jewish Rabbi. He never changes.
And lastly, He gives a rip about everybody, enough to die for them, regardless of dogma...

 

[hadit]

Wrong. That's Catholic "logic". Replace it with truth:
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice. Sheep follow their shepherd because they know him. If you know the Word, then you will know who you are talking to.
Pray for discernment if you are worried that you aren't familiar enough with Christ's voice to be able to tell the difference between Christ and Satan. Listen to what He taught the disciples. It's in the Book.

And a word from God will NEVER contradict Scripture. If the voice says to do anything that will harm the little children, for example. it's not from God.

God said to 1. take all things to him in prayer and 2. to pray without ceasing. That means in the kitchen, in the car, on a walk, in the shower, in bed at night, in bed in the morning, in a church, in a foxhole...
If you only talk to your Father when you stop by a particular building, then you won't know him well enough to discern who you are talking to half the time.

I agree. Have a relaxed conversation with God over coffee. How many of us parents want our children to only speak to us when they want something?

Same thing with Communion. It works just as well with a cup of coffee and a piece of toast. Pomp has nothing to do with it. The point is to do it often in remembrance.
1Cor. 11: 25 This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
You don't need a priest and a chalice once in a while to remember Him. Use what is available to you daily and do it often. It will be counted a righteousness on your part. A sacrifice to the Lord.

And do it with other Christians, that we remember together.

Again, you won't find Christ in the Vatican when He returns. HIS CHURCH IS A JEWISH TEMPLE. He is a Jewish Rabbi. He never changes.
And lastly, He gives a rip about everybody, enough to die for them, regardless of dogma...

Both of those are so true. There will be animal sacrifice again, and the temple won't be open every day.

 

[toobfreak]

Males and females have profoundly different roles in the reproductive process ... to evaluate equality, we must first set a value on the woman's role in society ... [smile] ... and that's not for men to decide

You just said it was. A woman's role can only be measured in response to men and vise versa. No part decides its own role only relative to itself. That is like leaving it up to the motor cam to be SQUARE, just because the cam prefers four sides to being round, makes no sense.

... and generally, men need to worry about man-stuff and leave the women to their own devices ...

No, we are right back to one company having forty CEOs again. Can't work that way. If every part in an engine gets to decide its own role for itself independent of all other considerations, all you'd end up with is a non-functioning pile of junk, exactly what the Left have given us as a society with all of their prog philosophies.

 

[BreezeWood]

You're quite full of yourself kid.

2020 hasn't the least idea how the heavenly exemplar, mary was the catalyst for the eventual final scene of the 1st century events by here refutation of moses.

 

[Meriweather]

Thank you, now, do the penitent and the priest think that the priest has the power and authority to forgive sin, given that Christ stated only God has that authority?

Let's go back to what Jesus taught. He taught repentance for the forgiveness of sins. No sacrifice needed. He announced Sins are forgiven. The religious leaders of the time said that Jesus had no authority to make this pronouncement. Jesus said it was a New Covenant (Testament) of God. The rulers of the time pointed out that all other Covenants (Testaments) were put into effect with a blood sacrifice. They demanded a sign that Jesus had God's authority to pronounce to all that Sins are forgiven.

Jesus became our blood sacrifice, our sign, that God's statement is indeed true. Sins are forgiven. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

The priest carries on with Christ's cry Sins are forgiven. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why non-Catholics are so against this announcement being repeated down through the ages. Yes, a priest can identify if there has been no repentance and give direction so that the penitent can continue to make amends and restitution.

I get that non-Catholic Christians can say, "Well, everyone knows that now, so we don't need to continue being told." As for me, I believe it is a lovely tradition and it reminds me daily of all Christ gave so that all might know Sins are forgiven; repentance (turning away from the sin) for the forgiveness of that sin).

 

[Here and there]

It seems this is so. The Protestants overall seem more misogynistic than Catholics, although I normally don't like to overly-generalize. I am basing this view on my own experiences.

I've had issues with both Protestant and Catholic people, both "faith communities" so don't think for a moment that I am always in the Catholics' "camp" because I am not. If anyone has reason to leave the CC, it is yours truly. But I don't ditch the whole thing like tossing out the baby w/ the bathwater..

In any case, I read a book written by an exorcist and he says that while they are praying the rosary over thedemon possessed.. Mary eventually appears and that is when the demon goes back to Hell

so that's interesting. I have also found Mary to be helpful in .. lesser situations, shall we say.

she is our loving Mother (given to us through Jesus who gave her to St John right before He died on the Cross)

Mary appears??
How convenient for an exorcist to say that. I’ll bet he has some other outrageous stories too.

 

[Here and there]

It's not sinful, and I didn't intend to say it was. I've heard the idea that Mary was a virgin her entire life and didn't actually have sex with Joseph, so was getting it out of the way.

Mary has 6 children and your Jesus was apparently the third. I don’t know the father of any of them but it wasn’t the Holy Spirit. Just a bit of slap and tickle behind the camel shed.
Just thought I would get that out of the way.

Heck, married sex should be the hottest on the planet. There should be no barriers between a husband and wife.