Do you want the AMNESTY bill for illegal aliens to pass?

[Flopper]

Such as, candycorn?

Alternatives?

Well, if we're okay with putting many if not most of the illegals here on a path to citizenship--call it Amnesty or whatever--just deem them citizens. It's not as if they're not getting any public assistance right now.

But before I did that, I would put a physical barrier between us and the southern border first and the northern border second. Comparatively few are crossing the border into North Dakota, Minnesota or New York. When I say physical barrier, I'm talking a network of fences, patrolled by army troops. Trenches. Razor Wire. Air patrol. We've got to secure our border. In this day and age, it's crazy not to.

Anyway, once it's secure, then whoever is north of it are given citizenship right then and there. Anyone south of the border trying to get across, good luck.

To think that someone getting paid cash $90-$150 a day will drop all of that to pay taxes on the $90-$150 a day they may make simply to be able to call themselves "citizens" is silly; to think they'll happily take 11 years (one of the figures I heard) to get there is bizarrely stupid.

Yes, I know, there are men and women doing it the right way...they came here, declared, have done the necessary stuff to become citizens, tried to become part of our culture, etc... To give the illegals instant status (those doing it the "right way" will get the status too by the way) cheapens the commodity. Well, tough.

Very few people will be able to use the path to citizenship in the bill. It will take more than a decade, cost thousands of dollars, and require applicants half of whom live in poverty and don't speak English to meet some rather stiff regulations.

I think you are under the impression that most illegals sneak into the country which is just not so. Most illegals in this country entered the country legally and never returned home. Most of those that did enter illegally entered by motor vehicles. There are some places on the boarder that should be fenced but not 2,000 on the southern boarder and certainly not 4,000 miles on the northern boarder.

 

[Flopper]

The immigration deform bill is expected to be up to 1,500 pages by the time it's said and done. This is why it needs to fail.

Immigration proposal could be delayed - The Washington Post

Having a long and complex bill is not necessary a bad thing. Either Congress makes the decisions when they write the law or they put very general language in the law which leaves more decisions to be made by government agencies.

Might not, but it can sure muddy the water to confuse and complicate matters.
Just like that 2800 page bill signed in 2010.

I have seen a lot of legislation some state and some federal that are very general. It's simple and easy to read but lacks detail. The problem comes when agencies try to implement it. In general, the simpler the law the more room for interpretation and regulations by the administration.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Before calling your Senator, I suggest you take the time to at least skim through the major parts of the bill or at least read a non-partisan analysis.
Text of S. 744: Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act (Introduced version) - GovTrack.us

I really think immigration reform is going to pass this year because there is a growing bi-partisan support. Although the far right and left will focus on the path to citizenship, it is not the most important part of the bill because very few people will take this path. Earning citizenship will take more than a decade, cost thousands of dollars, and require applicants - half of whom live in poverty and many of whom don't speak English - to comply with a daunting list of regulations.

The most important parts of the bill are:

• Increase in boarder security which will entail adding 3500 officers, increasing staff to double the number of daily prosecution for illegal entry, and added video monitoring both fixed and mobile
• Establishing the provisional immigrant status which will document illegal aliens
• Increasing the number of vistas and work permits
• Replace the employee verification system
• Provisions to attack and keep highly trained workers in the country.

Basically, the legislation will make it harder to enter the country illegally and at same time reduce the reasons to do so while modifying the system to attract the kind of workers we need.

It’s likely just partisan where republicans see the Hispanic vote permanently slipping away.

But there are a significant number of republicans who don’t care about that, their animus toward Hispanic persons and ‘illegals’ in conjunction with their fear of ‘change’ will be a powerful motivating factor to scuttle the legislation.

We see evidence of that in this very thread.

 

[Flopper]

Before calling your Senator, I suggest you take the time to at least skim through the major parts of the bill or at least read a non-partisan analysis.
Text of S. 744: Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act (Introduced version) - GovTrack.us

I really think immigration reform is going to pass this year because there is a growing bi-partisan support. Although the far right and left will focus on the path to citizenship, it is not the most important part of the bill because very few people will take this path. Earning citizenship will take more than a decade, cost thousands of dollars, and require applicants - half of whom live in poverty and many of whom don't speak English - to comply with a daunting list of regulations.

The most important parts of the bill are:

• Increase in boarder security which will entail adding 3500 officers, increasing staff to double the number of daily prosecution for illegal entry, and added video monitoring both fixed and mobile
• Establishing the provisional immigrant status which will document illegal aliens
• Increasing the number of vistas and work permits
• Replace the employee verification system
• Provisions to attack and keep highly trained workers in the country.

Basically, the legislation will make it harder to enter the country illegally and at same time reduce the reasons to do so while modifying the system to attract the kind of workers we need.

It’s likely just partisan where republicans see the Hispanic vote permanently slipping away.

But there are a significant number of republicans who don’t care about that, their animus toward Hispanic persons and ‘illegals’ in conjunction with their fear of ‘change’ will be a powerful motivating factor to scuttle the legislation.

We see evidence of that in this very thread.

There is a financial angle that is becoming more and more important to business. The lack of cheap migrant labor is hurting the food industry. We have seen this year crops that have gone to waste because of the lack of labor. Tighter boarder security, E-verify, improving economy at home and more deportations is keeping more workers at home. The result is higher prices and stiffer competition from abroad. The Immigration bill addresses this problem by increasing the number of visas and making it easier to get work permits. In areas that are having shortages of workers, the bill provides the flexibility to increase the number of permits in those areas.

 

[candycorn]

Such as, candycorn?

Alternatives?

Well, if we're okay with putting many if not most of the illegals here on a path to citizenship--call it Amnesty or whatever--just deem them citizens. It's not as if they're not getting any public assistance right now.

But before I did that, I would put a physical barrier between us and the southern border first and the northern border second. Comparatively few are crossing the border into North Dakota, Minnesota or New York. When I say physical barrier, I'm talking a network of fences, patrolled by army troops. Trenches. Razor Wire. Air patrol. We've got to secure our border. In this day and age, it's crazy not to.

Anyway, once it's secure, then whoever is north of it are given citizenship right then and there. Anyone south of the border trying to get across, good luck.

To think that someone getting paid cash $90-$150 a day will drop all of that to pay taxes on the $90-$150 a day they may make simply to be able to call themselves "citizens" is silly; to think they'll happily take 11 years (one of the figures I heard) to get there is bizarrely stupid.

Yes, I know, there are men and women doing it the right way...they came here, declared, have done the necessary stuff to become citizens, tried to become part of our culture, etc... To give the illegals instant status (those doing it the "right way" will get the status too by the way) cheapens the commodity. Well, tough.

Very few people will be able to use the path to citizenship in the bill. It will take more than a decade, cost thousands of dollars, and require applicants half of whom live in poverty and don't speak English to meet some rather stiff regulations.

Which is the reason they're not going to do it. I don't know you or where you live or what business you're in but I can guarantee you this; when you walk down a crowded boulevard, you don't bump into many Astronauts, Nobel Prize winners, Astrophysicists, or persons who have scaled Mount Everest. Why? Because it's hard to do that stuff.

What is the end game? We want to have people here who aren't citizens or are not going to be able to become citizens? We want to go through the time and expense of rounding up guys who are just here to make a buck and send them back to Central America, Mexico, or elsewhere?

Seriously, tell me why this is better than the status quo.

I think you are under the impression that most illegals sneak into the country which is just not so. Most illegals in this country entered the country legally and never returned home.

I'm under the impression that we don't know who is here and in this age of super empowered individuals (read The Lexus and the Olive Tree for a description) that is a problem. I'm also correct in saying that if you are here under false pretenses, you're here illegally and yes, you're not sneaking across the border but you're in the shadows.

Most of those that did enter illegally entered by motor vehicles.

I was remiss in stating that there would be ports of entry still. You could still drive across the border; sure. At least at that point we're putting eyes on you or at least in theory we are.

There are some places on the boarder that should be fenced but not 2,000 on the southern boarder and certainly not 4,000 miles on the northern boarder.

Really? Why?

Dangerous TB Patient Traveled Far - WSJ.com

 

[Flopper]

Alternatives?

Well, if we're okay with putting many if not most of the illegals here on a path to citizenship--call it Amnesty or whatever--just deem them citizens. It's not as if they're not getting any public assistance right now.

But before I did that, I would put a physical barrier between us and the southern border first and the northern border second. Comparatively few are crossing the border into North Dakota, Minnesota or New York. When I say physical barrier, I'm talking a network of fences, patrolled by army troops. Trenches. Razor Wire. Air patrol. We've got to secure our border. In this day and age, it's crazy not to.

Anyway, once it's secure, then whoever is north of it are given citizenship right then and there. Anyone south of the border trying to get across, good luck.

To think that someone getting paid cash $90-$150 a day will drop all of that to pay taxes on the $90-$150 a day they may make simply to be able to call themselves "citizens" is silly; to think they'll happily take 11 years (one of the figures I heard) to get there is bizarrely stupid.

Yes, I know, there are men and women doing it the right way...they came here, declared, have done the necessary stuff to become citizens, tried to become part of our culture, etc... To give the illegals instant status (those doing it the "right way" will get the status too by the way) cheapens the commodity. Well, tough.

Very few people will be able to use the path to citizenship in the bill. It will take more than a decade, cost thousands of dollars, and require applicants half of whom live in poverty and don't speak English to meet some rather stiff regulations.

Which is the reason they're not going to do it. I don't know you or where you live or what business you're in but I can guarantee you this; when you walk down a crowded boulevard, you don't bump into many Astronauts, Nobel Prize winners, Astrophysicists, or persons who have scaled Mount Everest. Why? Because it's hard to do that stuff.

What is the end game? We want to have people here who aren't citizens or are not going to be able to become citizens? We want to go through the time and expense of rounding up guys who are just here to make a buck and send them back to Central America, Mexico, or elsewhere?

Seriously, tell me why this is better than the status quo.


I'm under the impression that we don't know who is here and in this age of super empowered individuals (read The Lexus and the Olive Tree for a description) that is a problem. I'm also correct in saying that if you are here under false pretenses, you're here illegally and yes, you're not sneaking across the border but you're in the shadows.

Most of those that did enter illegally entered by motor vehicles.

I was remiss in stating that there would be ports of entry still. You could still drive across the border; sure. At least at that point we're putting eyes on you or at least in theory we are.

There are some places on the boarder that should be fenced but not 2,000 on the southern boarder and certainly not 4,000 miles on the northern boarder.

Really? Why?

Dangerous TB Patient Traveled Far - WSJ.com

The immigration bill is a great improvement over what we have now. It will make it harder to enter the country illegally by adding thousands of border patrol offices, additional monitoring, fences, and new technology as well as increase the resources to double the number being prosecuted for illegal entry.

At the same time we're making it harder to enter the country illegally, we are making it easier to enter legally and if you are employed to stay here. Whether we like the idea or not we need cheap migrant labor to pick our crops and do other work that Americans simply won't do. Because of our antiquated immigration laws, we loose thousands of highly trained and educated professional we need. Visas expire and they can't be renewed forcing them to return to their country of origin. Businesses in the US entice top talent from a broad to work here but when there visa expires they have to leave.

What is often overlooked in the immigration bill is how much it will help law enforcement. Documenting who is living in this country will not only help Homeland Security but will also help local law enforcement. The Boarder Patrol spends a lot of their time catching illegals immigrants crossing the boarder to work on farms that need their help. If we can reduce this illegal traffic, then they spend can direct their efforts at reducing the drug flow and protecting the boarder against terrorist.

Building walls around our country is not a solution and will just cause more problems. Many people would like to see all illegal immigrants removed from the nation but the fact is they are integral part our economy. We need them just as they need us. Deporting them is not going to work and just leaving things as they are is not in our best interest as a nation.

 

[Redfish]

The nativism, as expressed by PaulS and Redfish, are simply dismissed for what it is.

Since the libertarians cannot offer a consistent and integrated solution to the issue, I will leave at that.

Unsubscribe.

the solution is simple----enforce our immigration laws and our borders.

For the illegals already here-----if they are criminals, deport them. If they are on welfare, deport them. If they are working and paying taxes, let them stay, but they get no US benfits until they become citizens--no welfare, no food stamps, no EIC, no obamacare or medicaid or medicare.

 

[RandallFlagg]

The nativism, as expressed by PaulS and Redfish, are simply dismissed for what it is.

Since the libertarians cannot offer a consistent and integrated solution to the issue, I will leave at that.

Unsubscribe.

the solution is simple----enforce our immigration laws and our borders.

For the illegals already here-----if they are criminals, deport them. If they are on welfare, deport them. If they are working and paying taxes, let them stay, but they get no US benfits until they become citizens--no welfare, no food stamps, no EIC, no obamacare or medicaid or medicare.

This, in a nutshell, is the crux of the matter.

Some maniac goes berserk and shoots innocent babies - rather than initially force those laws already on the books - the left wing knee jerk reaction is to ban everything in sight. It has never worked and it will never work.

Same with Immigration. We DO NOT NÉED new laws. Enforce the laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

Folks, it really IS that simple.

 

[Redfish]

The nativism, as expressed by PaulS and Redfish, are simply dismissed for what it is.

Since the libertarians cannot offer a consistent and integrated solution to the issue, I will leave at that.

Unsubscribe.

the solution is simple----enforce our immigration laws and our borders.

For the illegals already here-----if they are criminals, deport them. If they are on welfare, deport them. If they are working and paying taxes, let them stay, but they get no US benfits until they become citizens--no welfare, no food stamps, no EIC, no obamacare or medicaid or medicare.

This, in a nutshell, is the crux of the matter.

Some maniac goes berserk and shoots innocent babies - rather than initially force those laws already on the books - the left wing knee jerk reaction is to ban everything in sight. It has never worked and it will never work.

Same with Immigration. We DO NOT NÉED new laws. Enforce the laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

Folks, it really IS that simple.

Yes, but mentally confused liberals have to feeeeeeeeeeel sorry for the poor illegals who, "only came here for a better life". Yeah, so did most of our ancestors----but they did it LEGALLY.

I just cannot understand the liberal thought processes.

 

[RandallFlagg]

the solution is simple----enforce our immigration laws and our borders.

For the illegals already here-----if they are criminals, deport them. If they are on welfare, deport them. If they are working and paying taxes, let them stay, but they get no US benfits until they become citizens--no welfare, no food stamps, no EIC, no obamacare or medicaid or medicare.

This, in a nutshell, is the crux of the matter.

Some maniac goes berserk and shoots innocent babies - rather than initially force those laws already on the books - the left wing knee jerk reaction is to ban everything in sight. It has never worked and it will never work.

Same with Immigration. We DO NOT NÉED new laws. Enforce the laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

Folks, it really IS that simple.

Yes, but mentally confused liberals have to feeeeeeeeeeel sorry for the poor illegals who, "only came here for a better life". Yeah, so did most of our ancestors----but they did it LEGALLY.

I just cannot understand the liberal thought processes.

You'll go nuts trying to understand liberals. They think as children.

Illegals DO NOT come here for a "better life". They are parasites. They come here for the "pickings". If there is nothing here, they will move on to Canada.

They are NOT looking for citizenship. Most despise "the gringo". That's the primary reason this crap about a "pathway to citizenship" is a red herring. They aren't interested. It's just "feel good" speak by BOTH parties in order to placate the American people into accepting this crap.

 

[Flopper]

The nativism, as expressed by PaulS and Redfish, are simply dismissed for what it is.

Since the libertarians cannot offer a consistent and integrated solution to the issue, I will leave at that.

Unsubscribe.

the solution is simple----enforce our immigration laws and our borders.

For the illegals already here-----if they are criminals, deport them. If they are on welfare, deport them. If they are working and paying taxes, let them stay, but they get no US benfits until they become citizens--no welfare, no food stamps, no EIC, no obamacare or medicaid or medicare.

This, in a nutshell, is the crux of the matter.

Some maniac goes berserk and shoots innocent babies - rather than initially force those laws already on the books - the left wing knee jerk reaction is to ban everything in sight. It has never worked and it will never work.

Same with Immigration. We DO NOT NÉED new laws. Enforce the laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

Folks, it really IS that simple.

Enforcing the law is what the INS and Boarder Patrol have been trying to do for years and it isn't working. The immigration system we have today makes little sense in terms of America’s security. With few effective legal options to immigrate to the US many seek ways to go around the system. This broken system has spawned a thriving market for smugglers and has generated chaos on the border. A seemingly random enforcement regime targets ordinary immigrant workers and families, diverting resources away from protecting against genuine threats. Millions of immigrants are unknown to the government. Unscrupulous employers have little fear of punishment for recruiting and exploiting undocumented workers and undermining their honest competitors.

We need immigration laws that will encourage workers that we need to come to this country legally and strengthen our boarders to keep dangerous criminals, drug traffickers, and terrorist out. This is what the immigration reform bill will do.

 

[RandallFlagg]

the solution is simple----enforce our immigration laws and our borders.

For the illegals already here-----if they are criminals, deport them. If they are on welfare, deport them. If they are working and paying taxes, let them stay, but they get no US benfits until they become citizens--no welfare, no food stamps, no EIC, no obamacare or medicaid or medicare.

This, in a nutshell, is the crux of the matter.

Some maniac goes berserk and shoots innocent babies - rather than initially force those laws already on the books - the left wing knee jerk reaction is to ban everything in sight. It has never worked and it will never work.

Same with Immigration. We DO NOT NÉED new laws. Enforce the laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

Folks, it really IS that simple.

Enforcing the law is what the INS and Boarder Patrol hayve been trying to do for years and it isn't working. The immigration system we have today makes little sense in terms of America’s security. With few effective legal options to immigrate to the US many seek ways to go around the system. This broken system has spawned a thriving market for smugglers and has generated chaos on the border. A seemingly random enforcement regime targets ordinary immigrant workers and families, diverting resources away from protecting against genuine threats. Millions of immigrants are unknown to the government. Unscrupulous employers have little fear of punishment for recruiting and exploiting undocumented workers and undermining their honest competitors.

We need immigration laws that will encourage workers that we need to come to this country legally and strengthen our boarders to keep dangerous criminals, drug traffickers, and terrorist out. This is what the immigration reform bill will do.

Sorry, but LEGAL immigrants come here by the tens of thousands every year, following the laws of this country.

-next-

See my post a page or two back. My version of a "NEW" law would be to enforce laws already on the books with this proviso:

Any employer found to be employing illegal workers would be fined $50,000 Per Illegal, as a first offense. $75,000 Per Illegal for second offense. $100,000 for a third offense. 4th offense, the Feds seize the business.

Illegal immigration would be over in a matter of a month or two.


All it takes is a Federal government who cares more for the rights of the unemployed Americans in this country than it does for the supposed "rights" of those who come here with the sole intention of raping this country.

 

[candycorn]

At the same time we're making it harder to enter the country illegally, we are making it easier to enter legally and if you are employed to stay here. Whether we like the idea or not we need cheap migrant labor to pick our crops and do other work that Americans simply won't do. Because of our antiquated immigration laws, we loose thousands of highly trained and educated professional we need. Visas expire and they can't be renewed forcing them to return to their country of origin. Businesses in the US entice top talent from a broad to work here but when there visa expires they have to leave.

There is beneficial aspects to immigration. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant of reality. However, I doubt that if you give Lucia a Social Security card deeming her a citizen of the US, she'll leave the grapefruit orchard and never come back in favor of a job in an office that she is now eligible for since she's a citizen. There is a reason that illegals work in the fields and as domestic help; they don't have a skill set to elevate out of those occupations; speaking in generalities. The sure as heck don't have necessary certifications and licenses (I know, I screen people).

The point is that granting citizenship doesn't rob industry of a work force; a cheap workforce they can exploit perhaps but not a work force.

The immigration bill is a great improvement over what we have now. It will make it harder to enter the country illegally by adding thousands of border patrol offices, additional monitoring, fences, and new technology as well as increase the resources to double the number being prosecuted for illegal entry.

I'm sure you meant officers and not offices. I haven't seen much patrolling being done by the patrol to be honest with you.

We have added thousands already:

The result is a stemming of the tide but the borders are still way too porous for my comfort. The case of the guy coming across infected with TB is small potatoes (unless you're a child or senior and exposed to him); hundreds of miles of wide open borders on both sides of the country are fertile soil for all sorts of nefarious transit; from murderers to drugs, to potential WMDs.

What is often overlooked in the immigration bill is how much it will help law enforcement. Documenting who is living in this country will not only help Homeland Security but will also help local law enforcement. The Boarder Patrol spends a lot of their time catching illegals immigrants crossing the boarder to work on farms that need their help. If we can reduce this illegal traffic, then they spend can direct their efforts at reducing the drug flow and protecting the boarder against terrorist.

And putting a permanent, substantial, intimidating, and professionally PATROLLED barrier in place wouldn't help?

Your neighbor has a fence.
The school where your kids go likely has a fence
The business where you work likely has a fence or access control points

Having one around the country isn't a good idea?

Building walls around our country is not a solution and will just cause more problems.

What "more problems" would it cause?

Many people would like to see all illegal immigrants removed from the nation but the fact is they are integral part our economy. We need them just as they need us. Deporting them is not going to work and just leaving things as they are is not in our best interest as a nation.

You're 100% right on this point; it is a mutually beneficial relationship more often than not. But just as we don't let people visit the cockpits in planes any longer, just as we don't have our Presidents riding around in open top cars, just as we took cigarette machines out of places where kids congregate, we have to guard against the small percentage of people who will exploit these once benign "threats"

 

[Flopper]

At the same time we're making it harder to enter the country illegally, we are making it easier to enter legally and if you are employed to stay here. Whether we like the idea or not we need cheap migrant labor to pick our crops and do other work that Americans simply won't do. Because of our antiquated immigration laws, we loose thousands of highly trained and educated professional we need. Visas expire and they can't be renewed forcing them to return to their country of origin. Businesses in the US entice top talent from a broad to work here but when there visa expires they have to leave.

There is beneficial aspects to immigration. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant of reality. However, I doubt that if you give Lucia a Social Security card deeming her a citizen of the US, she'll leave the grapefruit orchard and never come back in favor of a job in an office that she is now eligible for since she's a citizen. There is a reason that illegals work in the fields and as domestic help; they don't have a skill set to elevate out of those occupations; speaking in generalities. The sure as heck don't have necessary certifications and licenses (I know, I screen people).

The point is that granting citizenship doesn't rob industry of a work force; a cheap workforce they can exploit perhaps but not a work force.

The immigration bill is a great improvement over what we have now. It will make it harder to enter the country illegally by adding thousands of border patrol offices, additional monitoring, fences, and new technology as well as increase the resources to double the number being prosecuted for illegal entry.

I'm sure you meant officers and not offices. I haven't seen much patrolling being done by the patrol to be honest with you.

We have added thousands already:

The result is a stemming of the tide but the borders are still way too porous for my comfort. The case of the guy coming across infected with TB is small potatoes (unless you're a child or senior and exposed to him); hundreds of miles of wide open borders on both sides of the country are fertile soil for all sorts of nefarious transit; from murderers to drugs, to potential WMDs.


And putting a permanent, substantial, intimidating, and professionally PATROLLED barrier in place wouldn't help?

Your neighbor has a fence.
The school where your kids go likely has a fence
The business where you work likely has a fence or access control points

Having one around the country isn't a good idea?

Building walls around our country is not a solution and will just cause more problems.

What "more problems" would it cause?

Many people would like to see all illegal immigrants removed from the nation but the fact is they are integral part our economy. We need them just as they need us. Deporting them is not going to work and just leaving things as they are is not in our best interest as a nation.

You're 100% right on this point; it is a mutually beneficial relationship more often than not. But just as we don't let people visit the cockpits in planes any longer, just as we don't have our Presidents riding around in open top cars, just as we took cigarette machines out of places where kids congregate, we have to guard against the small percentage of people who will exploit these once benign "threats"

Building walls around the country doesn't work for two reason. First of all over 99% of all traffic between Mexico/Canada and the US is legal. Cost of building fences and monitoring them is very high. We have over 6,000 miles of land board and over 10,000 miles of shoreline. Securing with walls and fencing would be insanely expensive. Secondly, keeping people out is not the major problem, despite the media buzz, over half of the illegal immigrants in the US entered this country legally; they didn't swim the Rio Grande or cross the desert in the dark of night; they just overstay their visas.

The better approach to the problem is attack the reason why people want to come into the US. Migrant farm workers need the work and we need them to pick the crops. So we increase the number workers that are allowed into the US to do this type of work. Professionals with high skill levels from abroad are recruited by businesses in the US. These people are benefits to our economy. We need to keep them and attract more of them. Lastly, we have people whose intent is to do real harm to our nation, criminals engaged in drug and human trafficking and terrorism. Currently law enforcement at the boarders spends most of their efforts appending people who just want to earn a living. The immigration reform bill addresses all of these issues and it should be passed.

 

[dblack]

Building walls around the country doesn't work for two reason. First of all over 99% of all traffic between Mexico/Canada and the US is legal. Cost of building fences and monitoring them is very high. We have over 6,000 miles of land board and over 10,000 miles of shoreline. Securing this would be insanely expensive. Secondly, keeping people out is not the major problem, despite the media buzz, over half of the illegal immigrants entered this country legally and overstay their visas.

The better approach to the problem is attack the reason why people want to come into the US. Migrant farm workers need the work and we need them to pick the crops. So we increase the number workers that are allowed into the US to do this type of work. Professionals with high skill levels from abroad are recruited by businesses in the US. These people are benefits to our economy. We need to keep them and attract more of them. Lastly, we have people whose intent is to do real harm to our nation, criminals engaged in drug and human trafficking and terrorism. Currently law enforcement at the boarders spends most of their efforts appending people who just want to earn a living. The immigration reform bill addresses all of these issues and it should be passed.

Couldn't agree more. Walling off our country will suffocate us.

 

[Flopper]

This, in a nutshell, is the crux of the matter.

Some maniac goes berserk and shoots innocent babies - rather than initially force those laws already on the books - the left wing knee jerk reaction is to ban everything in sight. It has never worked and it will never work.

Same with Immigration. We DO NOT NÉED new laws. Enforce the laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

Folks, it really IS that simple.

Enforcing the law is what the INS and Boarder Patrol hayve been trying to do for years and it isn't working. The immigration system we have today makes little sense in terms of America’s security. With few effective legal options to immigrate to the US many seek ways to go around the system. This broken system has spawned a thriving market for smugglers and has generated chaos on the border. A seemingly random enforcement regime targets ordinary immigrant workers and families, diverting resources away from protecting against genuine threats. Millions of immigrants are unknown to the government. Unscrupulous employers have little fear of punishment for recruiting and exploiting undocumented workers and undermining their honest competitors.

We need immigration laws that will encourage workers that we need to come to this country legally and strengthen our boarders to keep dangerous criminals, drug traffickers, and terrorist out. This is what the immigration reform bill will do.

Sorry, but LEGAL immigrants come here by the tens of thousands every year, following the laws of this country.

-next-

See my post a page or two back. My version of a "NEW" law would be to enforce laws already on the books with this proviso:

Any employer found to be employing illegal workers would be fined $50,000 Per Illegal, as a first offense. $75,000 Per Illegal for second offense. $100,000 for a third offense. 4th offense, the Feds seize the business.

Illegal immigration would be over in a matter of a month or two.


All it takes is a Federal government who cares more for the rights of the unemployed Americans in this country than it does for the supposed "rights" of those who come here with the sole intention of raping this country.

The E-Verify system is an improvement which means it's better than nothing. The new law will improve the E-Verify photo system. I'm not sure this level of fines is appropriate. Farmers are having a hard time dealing with the system now. Remember for over 75 years we have encouraged farmers to hire undocumented Mexican labor to pick the crops. Now we want to fine them $100,000 a person for doing so? Unlike most businesses, a shortage of labor is devastating to the farmer. They have a very narrow time frame to pick the crop and very few people are willing to do the work at the price the farmer can pay.

 

[Unkotare]

They are NOT looking for citizenship. Most despise "the gringo". .

You know what "most" of a group comprising millions of people thinks, feels, and wants?

 

[RandallFlagg]

Enforcing the law is what the INS and Boarder Patrol hayve been trying to do for years and it isn't working. The immigration system we have today makes little sense in terms of America’s security. With few effective legal options to immigrate to the US many seek ways to go around the system. This broken system has spawned a thriving market for smugglers and has generated chaos on the border. A seemingly random enforcement regime targets ordinary immigrant workers and families, diverting resources away from protecting against genuine threats. Millions of immigrants are unknown to the government. Unscrupulous employers have little fear of punishment for recruiting and exploiting undocumented workers and undermining their honest competitors.

We need immigration laws that will encourage workers that we need to come to this country legally and strengthen our boarders to keep dangerous criminals, drug traffickers, and terrorist out. This is what the immigration reform bill will do.

Sorry, but LEGAL immigrants come here by the tens of thousands every year, following the laws of this country.

-next-

See my post a page or two back. My version of a "NEW" law would be to enforce laws already on the books with this proviso:

Any employer found to be employing illegal workers would be fined $50,000 Per Illegal, as a first offense. $75,000 Per Illegal for second offense. $100,000 for a third offense. 4th offense, the Feds seize the business.

Illegal immigration would be over in a matter of a month or two.


All it takes is a Federal government who cares more for the rights of the unemployed Americans in this country than it does for the supposed "rights" of those who come here with the sole intention of raping this country.

The E-Verify system is an improvement which means it's better than nothing. The new law will improve the E-Verify photo system. I'm not sure this level of fines is appropriate. Farmers are having a hard time dealing with the system now. Remember for over 75 years we have encouraged farmers to hire undocumented Mexican labor to pick the crops. Now we want to fine them $100,000 a person for doing so? Unlike most businesses, a shortage of labor is devastating to the farmer. They have a very narrow time frame to pick the crop and very few people are willing to do the work at the price the farmer can pay.

The vast majority of those "farms" are corporate owned and bring in profits of tens of millions per year. They pay slave wages. Yet, every year, the cost of fruits and vegetables rises. Why not employ out of work Americans?

Not to be argumentative here, but you are making excuses for the lax enforcement of immigration laws. If we are EVER to stop the invasion of those who come here illegally, fines are the ONLY way to stop it.

You make it sound as if the only illegals are farm workers. Check the meat packing facilities in Chicago, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri. Check out the employee roles of McDonalds, Hardee's, Carl's Jr, Whataburger, etc. Check out every lawn service in the United States. Check out every home builder in the United States. I could go on for an hour. Good, decent jobs taken, and maintained by companies that hire illegals RATHER than American citizens who are looking for honest work. Their profits rise and their payrolls shrink.

Again, we currently have 100,000 Veterans who are out of work. Why can't the Feds hire a big chunk of these young people to work for ICE as immigration personnel? All I ever hear is that "we simply can't deport 12 million illegals". BS.

 

[candycorn]

Building walls around the country doesn't work for two reason. First of all over 99% of all traffic between Mexico/Canada and the US is legal. Cost of building fences and monitoring them is very high. We have over 6,000 miles of land board and over 10,000 miles of shoreline. Securing with walls and fencing would be insanely expensive.

Again, I did not state that we should build a wall and allow no commerce to flow through. Never stated that.

Secondly, keeping people out is not the major problem, despite the media buzz, over half of the illegal immigrants in the US entered this country legally; they didn't swim the Rio Grande or cross the desert in the dark of night; they just overstay their visas.

And those persons who overstay their visas, by and large 9/11 not withstanding, are not the issue. If we're doing our job at the INS, we're not letting in Jack the Ripper. These people have, at least, been examined at some point.

The guy crossing the unguarded and largely unpatrolled border as you read this hasn't been examined? Does he have TB? Smallpox? Components for a dirty bomb? Who knows?

The better approach to the problem is attack the reason why people want to come into the US. Migrant farm workers need the work and we need them to pick the crops. So we increase the number workers that are allowed into the US to do this type of work.

Why do you think they want them?

Professionals with high skill levels from abroad are recruited by businesses in the US. These people are benefits to our economy. We need to keep them and attract more of them.

No argument there except it would be nice to have home-grown talent taking those jobs.

Lastly, we have people whose intent is to do real harm to our nation, criminals engaged in drug and human trafficking and terrorism. Currently law enforcement at the boarders spends most of their efforts appending people who just want to earn a living. The immigration reform bill addresses all of these issues and it should be passed.

Again, you don't think an intimidating, substantial, PATROLLED physical barrier would help law enforcement?

It's easier to plug a 3" hold in a dam than a 300 mile hole.

 

[candycorn]

Sorry, but LEGAL immigrants come here by the tens of thousands every year, following the laws of this country.

-next-

See my post a page or two back. My version of a "NEW" law would be to enforce laws already on the books with this proviso:

Any employer found to be employing illegal workers would be fined $50,000 Per Illegal, as a first offense. $75,000 Per Illegal for second offense. $100,000 for a third offense. 4th offense, the Feds seize the business.

Illegal immigration would be over in a matter of a month or two.


All it takes is a Federal government who cares more for the rights of the unemployed Americans in this country than it does for the supposed "rights" of those who come here with the sole intention of raping this country.

The E-Verify system is an improvement which means it's better than nothing. The new law will improve the E-Verify photo system. I'm not sure this level of fines is appropriate. Farmers are having a hard time dealing with the system now. Remember for over 75 years we have encouraged farmers to hire undocumented Mexican labor to pick the crops. Now we want to fine them $100,000 a person for doing so? Unlike most businesses, a shortage of labor is devastating to the farmer. They have a very narrow time frame to pick the crop and very few people are willing to do the work at the price the farmer can pay.

The vast majority of those "farms" are corporate owned and bring in profits of tens of millions per year. They pay slave wages. Yet, every year, the cost of fruits and vegetables rises. Why not employ out of work Americans?

Not to be argumentative here, but you are making excuses for the lax enforcement of immigration laws. If we are EVER to stop the invasion of those who come here illegally, fines are the ONLY way to stop it.

You make it sound as if the only illegals are farm workers. Check the meat packing facilities in Chicago, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri. Check out the employee roles of McDonalds, Hardee's, Carl's Jr, Whataburger, etc. Check out every lawn service in the United States. Check out every home builder in the United States. I could go on for an hour. Good, decent jobs taken, and maintained by companies that hire illegals RATHER than American citizens who are looking for honest work. Their profits rise and their payrolls shrink.

Again, we currently have 100,000 Veterans who are out of work. Why can't the Feds hire a big chunk of these young people to work for ICE as immigration personnel? All I ever hear is that "we simply can't deport 12 million illegals". BS.

We really can't deport 12 million illegals. Please walk us through the steps of doing that....

Such as how you physically return them to Panama or Nicaragua.

You're right about the factory farms; they want them because they can pay them pennies. No other reason.