does God love us?

[ding]

after killing 3 million people with one virus, it seems to me God is an asshole, if he exists even

If he (or she) exists, it isn't paying any attention.

And if it is, it has a lot to answer for.

See Job 40

Why?

To address your belief that God has a lot to answer for. It's like you don't even logic. Do I need to explain it for you?

You're quoting the bible and claiming I "don't logic"?

I am quoting an allegorical account of what it would be like to question the creator of existence.

And yes, you don't logic. Your statement implies that if God exists then he didn't do a very good job. Follow that chain of thought to it's logical conclusion... which is what Job 40 explains.

You know "logic" isn't a verb, right?

Yes. I know.

Do you know how stupid it is to believe that if God exists you know more than he does?

 

[Crepitus]

after killing 3 million people with one virus, it seems to me God is an asshole, if he exists even

If he (or she) exists, it isn't paying any attention.

And if it is, it has a lot to answer for.

See Job 40

Why?

To address your belief that God has a lot to answer for. It's like you don't even logic. Do I need to explain it for you?

You're quoting the bible and claiming I "don't logic"?

I am quoting an allegorical account of what it would be like to question the creator of existence.

And yes, you don't logic. Your statement implies that if God exists then he didn't do a very good job. Follow that chain of thought to it's logical conclusion... which is what Job 40 explains.

You know "logic" isn't a verb, right?

Yes. I know.

Do you know how stupid it is to believe that if God exists you know more than he does?

Good thing he/she doesn't exist, then.

 

[ding]

after killing 3 million people with one virus, it seems to me God is an asshole, if he exists even

If he (or she) exists, it isn't paying any attention.

And if it is, it has a lot to answer for.

See Job 40

Why?

To address your belief that God has a lot to answer for. It's like you don't even logic. Do I need to explain it for you?

You're quoting the bible and claiming I "don't logic"?

I am quoting an allegorical account of what it would be like to question the creator of existence.

And yes, you don't logic. Your statement implies that if God exists then he didn't do a very good job. Follow that chain of thought to it's logical conclusion... which is what Job 40 explains.

You know "logic" isn't a verb, right?

Yes. I know.

Do you know how stupid it is to believe that if God exists you know more than he does?

Good thing he/she doesn't exist, then.

That you believe that was obvious from your post. Just as it was obvious from your post that you have a problem with others believing God does exist.

 

[Crepitus]

it was obvious from your post that you have a problem with others believing God does exist.

Nope. Knock yourself out.

 

[ding]

it was obvious from your post that you have a problem with others believing God does exist.

Nope. Knock yourself out.

I'm glad to see we are in agreement that that would be bad.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

after killing 3 million people with one virus, it seems to me God is an asshole, if he exists even

Except you repent, your future is becoming ashes in the lake of fire.

Then you wont exist at all

 

[Blues Man]

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

What data proves there is some spirit that exists after a person dies?

We have elevated our minds which are merely a function of the brain and by extension the body into some mystical force

Who knows what happens when consciousness makes the next leap? Maybe you will get to find out one day.

Of course faith isn't about dying, faith is about living.

Then why so much emphasis on the afterlife?

I never thought there was. You are the one who keeps bringing it up.

Of course there is.

 

[ding]

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

What data proves there is some spirit that exists after a person dies?

We have elevated our minds which are merely a function of the brain and by extension the body into some mystical force

Who knows what happens when consciousness makes the next leap? Maybe you will get to find out one day.

Of course faith isn't about dying, faith is about living.

Then why so much emphasis on the afterlife?

I never thought there was. You are the one who keeps bringing it up.

Of course there is.

Really? Which religions and what is your basis for that belief?

 

[Blues Man]

[

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

Right. The love of keeping your ass out of an imaginary fire. That's what it all comes down to. Well, that, and an inordinate sense of superiority.

religion plays to greed and fear and always has

That doesn't sound like a functional advantage.

It is

How many billions of dollars are given to religions annually?

Bitter much?

Why would I be bitter?

I never gave money to any religion.

religion plays of the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

Because you haven't filled your God void. Which is why you are here arguing against the beliefs of others; making straw-men arguments like religion plays on the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

I already showed you how Darwin says you are wrong. Natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago.

I have no god void. I have no use for gods because they are imaginary.

and the definition for spirituality has become so vague as to be meaningless.

 

[ding]

[

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

Right. The love of keeping your ass out of an imaginary fire. That's what it all comes down to. Well, that, and an inordinate sense of superiority.

religion plays to greed and fear and always has

That doesn't sound like a functional advantage.

It is

How many billions of dollars are given to religions annually?

Bitter much?

Why would I be bitter?

I never gave money to any religion.

religion plays of the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

Because you haven't filled your God void. Which is why you are here arguing against the beliefs of others; making straw-men arguments like religion plays on the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

I already showed you how Darwin says you are wrong. Natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago.

I have no god void. I have no use for gods because they are imaginary.

and the definition for spirituality has become so vague as to be meaningless.

Path not taken so you have never tested it and don't know.

If you believe that you are more than matter, then you would be spiritual. If you believe you are only matter, then you are a materialist. Can't get anymore simple or succinct than that.

 

[Blues Man]

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

What data proves there is some spirit that exists after a person dies?

We have elevated our minds which are merely a function of the brain and by extension the body into some mystical force

Who knows what happens when consciousness makes the next leap? Maybe you will get to find out one day.

Of course faith isn't about dying, faith is about living.

Then why so much emphasis on the afterlife?

I never thought there was. You are the one who keeps bringing it up.

Of course there is.

Really? Which religions and what is your basis for that belief?

Christianity, Islam, Judaism are all premised on the immortal spirit originating in some divine realm to which they will return if they live in accordance to the rules set down by the god they worship.

 

[Blues Man]

[

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

Right. The love of keeping your ass out of an imaginary fire. That's what it all comes down to. Well, that, and an inordinate sense of superiority.

religion plays to greed and fear and always has

That doesn't sound like a functional advantage.

It is

How many billions of dollars are given to religions annually?

Bitter much?

Why would I be bitter?

I never gave money to any religion.

religion plays of the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

Because you haven't filled your God void. Which is why you are here arguing against the beliefs of others; making straw-men arguments like religion plays on the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

I already showed you how Darwin says you are wrong. Natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago.

I have no god void. I have no use for gods because they are imaginary.

and the definition for spirituality has become so vague as to be meaningless.

Path not taken so you have never tested it and don't know.

If you believe that you are more than matter, then you would be spiritual. If you believe you are only matter, then you are a materialist. Can't get anymore simple or succinct than that.

I was exposed to religion when I was young. I realized quite early that I had no need for it.

 

[ding]

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

What data proves there is some spirit that exists after a person dies?

We have elevated our minds which are merely a function of the brain and by extension the body into some mystical force

Who knows what happens when consciousness makes the next leap? Maybe you will get to find out one day.

Of course faith isn't about dying, faith is about living.

Then why so much emphasis on the afterlife?

I never thought there was. You are the one who keeps bringing it up.

Of course there is.

Really? Which religions and what is your basis for that belief?

Christianity, Islam, Judaism are all premised on the immortal spirit originating in some divine realm to which they will return if they live in accordance to the rules set down by the god they worship.

No. They all premise on how to live life and not live life. You have made the assumption that it is for eternal reward and eternal punishment rather than experiencing existence to the fullest to become the best version of yourself that you can be.

Can you show me the texts which support your claim that the objective of Christianity, Islam, Judaism is to return to the immortal spirit if they live in accordance to the rules set down by the god they worship?

And what about the other major religions?

 

[ding]

[

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

Right. The love of keeping your ass out of an imaginary fire. That's what it all comes down to. Well, that, and an inordinate sense of superiority.

religion plays to greed and fear and always has

That doesn't sound like a functional advantage.

It is

How many billions of dollars are given to religions annually?

Bitter much?

Why would I be bitter?

I never gave money to any religion.

religion plays of the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

Because you haven't filled your God void. Which is why you are here arguing against the beliefs of others; making straw-men arguments like religion plays on the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

I already showed you how Darwin says you are wrong. Natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago.

I have no god void. I have no use for gods because they are imaginary.

and the definition for spirituality has become so vague as to be meaningless.

Path not taken so you have never tested it and don't know.

If you believe that you are more than matter, then you would be spiritual. If you believe you are only matter, then you are a materialist. Can't get anymore simple or succinct than that.

I was exposed to religion when I was young. I realized quite early that I had no need for it.

Religion isn't God. Why are you equivocating?

 

[Blues Man]

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

What data proves there is some spirit that exists after a person dies?

We have elevated our minds which are merely a function of the brain and by extension the body into some mystical force

Who knows what happens when consciousness makes the next leap? Maybe you will get to find out one day.

Of course faith isn't about dying, faith is about living.

Then why so much emphasis on the afterlife?

I never thought there was. You are the one who keeps bringing it up.

Of course there is.

Really? Which religions and what is your basis for that belief?

Christianity, Islam, Judaism are all premised on the immortal spirit originating in some divine realm to which they will return if they live in accordance to the rules set down by the god they worship.

No. They all premise on how to live life and not live life. You have made the assumption that it is for eternal reward and eternal punishment rather than experiencing existence to the fullest to become the best version of yourself that you can be.

Can you show me the texts which support your claim that the objective of Christianity, Islam, Judaism is to return to the immortal spirit if they live in accordance to the rules set down by the god they worship?

And what about the other major religions?

How to live so as to be rewarded with eternal life

There is always the promise of an afterlife as a reward. Not one of those religions say that if you live according to their rules that your existence will simply end or that there is nothing after death.

 

[Blues Man]

[

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

Right. The love of keeping your ass out of an imaginary fire. That's what it all comes down to. Well, that, and an inordinate sense of superiority.

religion plays to greed and fear and always has

That doesn't sound like a functional advantage.

It is

How many billions of dollars are given to religions annually?

Bitter much?

Why would I be bitter?

I never gave money to any religion.

religion plays of the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

Because you haven't filled your God void. Which is why you are here arguing against the beliefs of others; making straw-men arguments like religion plays on the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

I already showed you how Darwin says you are wrong. Natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago.

I have no god void. I have no use for gods because they are imaginary.

and the definition for spirituality has become so vague as to be meaningless.

Path not taken so you have never tested it and don't know.

If you believe that you are more than matter, then you would be spiritual. If you believe you are only matter, then you are a materialist. Can't get anymore simple or succinct than that.

I was exposed to religion when I was young. I realized quite early that I had no need for it.

Religion isn't God. Why are you equivocating?

I'm not. I have no use for gods therefore I have no use for religion.

I never equated them. That's you making shit up again

 

[ding]

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

What data proves there is some spirit that exists after a person dies?

We have elevated our minds which are merely a function of the brain and by extension the body into some mystical force

Who knows what happens when consciousness makes the next leap? Maybe you will get to find out one day.

Of course faith isn't about dying, faith is about living.

Then why so much emphasis on the afterlife?

I never thought there was. You are the one who keeps bringing it up.

Of course there is.

Really? Which religions and what is your basis for that belief?

Christianity, Islam, Judaism are all premised on the immortal spirit originating in some divine realm to which they will return if they live in accordance to the rules set down by the god they worship.

No. They all premise on how to live life and not live life. You have made the assumption that it is for eternal reward and eternal punishment rather than experiencing existence to the fullest to become the best version of yourself that you can be.

Can you show me the texts which support your claim that the objective of Christianity, Islam, Judaism is to return to the immortal spirit if they live in accordance to the rules set down by the god they worship?

And what about the other major religions?

How to live so as to be rewarded with eternal life

There is always the promise of an afterlife as a reward. Not one of those religions say that if you live according to their rules that your existence will simply end or that there is nothing after death.

No. How to live life to experience existence to its fullest and become the best version of yourself. I've never once heard a sermon in mass about eternal damnation, salvation or heaven and hell. Not once. I have heard plenty of sermons about how having a personal relationship enriches my life though.

So... where are the texts that support your position?

And what about the other major religions you didn't mention?

 

[ding]

[

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

Right. The love of keeping your ass out of an imaginary fire. That's what it all comes down to. Well, that, and an inordinate sense of superiority.

religion plays to greed and fear and always has

That doesn't sound like a functional advantage.

It is

How many billions of dollars are given to religions annually?

Bitter much?

Why would I be bitter?

I never gave money to any religion.

religion plays of the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

Because you haven't filled your God void. Which is why you are here arguing against the beliefs of others; making straw-men arguments like religion plays on the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

I already showed you how Darwin says you are wrong. Natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago.

I have no god void. I have no use for gods because they are imaginary.

and the definition for spirituality has become so vague as to be meaningless.

Path not taken so you have never tested it and don't know.

If you believe that you are more than matter, then you would be spiritual. If you believe you are only matter, then you are a materialist. Can't get anymore simple or succinct than that.

I was exposed to religion when I was young. I realized quite early that I had no need for it.

Religion isn't God. Why are you equivocating?

I'm not. I have no use for gods therefore I have no use for religion.

I never equated them. That's you making shit up again

The path you didn't take was entering into a relationship with God. That is what you have never tested. Your response to that was you were exposed to religion when you were young and realized you had no use for it. That's you equivocating religion with God. They are two different things. So, no, I didn't make anything up.

So I will say again, you have never tested having a relationship with God so you have never traveled down that path and cannot hold an informed opinion on whether that relationship will enrich your life and make you become the best version of yourself. I have traveled both paths.

 

[Blues Man]

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

What data proves there is some spirit that exists after a person dies?

We have elevated our minds which are merely a function of the brain and by extension the body into some mystical force

Who knows what happens when consciousness makes the next leap? Maybe you will get to find out one day.

Of course faith isn't about dying, faith is about living.

Then why so much emphasis on the afterlife?

I never thought there was. You are the one who keeps bringing it up.

Of course there is.

Really? Which religions and what is your basis for that belief?

Christianity, Islam, Judaism are all premised on the immortal spirit originating in some divine realm to which they will return if they live in accordance to the rules set down by the god they worship.

No. They all premise on how to live life and not live life. You have made the assumption that it is for eternal reward and eternal punishment rather than experiencing existence to the fullest to become the best version of yourself that you can be.

Can you show me the texts which support your claim that the objective of Christianity, Islam, Judaism is to return to the immortal spirit if they live in accordance to the rules set down by the god they worship?

And what about the other major religions?

How to live so as to be rewarded with eternal life

There is always the promise of an afterlife as a reward. Not one of those religions say that if you live according to their rules that your existence will simply end or that there is nothing after death.

No. How to live life to experience existence to its fullest and become the best version of yourself. I've never once heard a sermon in mass about eternal damnation, salvation or heaven and hell. Not once. I have heard plenty of sermons about how having a personal relationship enriches my life though.

So... where are the texts that support your position?

And what about the other major religions you didn't mention?

1.8. Assurance of Eternal Rewards | Bible.org

The Doctrine of the Bema A prominent doctrine of the New Testament concerns the Doctrine of Rewards and the Judgment Seat of Christ. It is a doctrine often ignored or, when taught, it is misrepresented because of the term “judgment” that is used in translating the Greek text. Commenting on this...

bible.org

True Islam - Rewards of Paradise for men only?

True Islam is derived from the Quran and not from the traditions or cultures of Muslim people

www.quran-islam.org

 

[Blues Man]

[

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

Right. The love of keeping your ass out of an imaginary fire. That's what it all comes down to. Well, that, and an inordinate sense of superiority.

religion plays to greed and fear and always has

That doesn't sound like a functional advantage.

It is

How many billions of dollars are given to religions annually?

Bitter much?

Why would I be bitter?

I never gave money to any religion.

religion plays of the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

Because you haven't filled your God void. Which is why you are here arguing against the beliefs of others; making straw-men arguments like religion plays on the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

I already showed you how Darwin says you are wrong. Natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago.

I have no god void. I have no use for gods because they are imaginary.

and the definition for spirituality has become so vague as to be meaningless.

Path not taken so you have never tested it and don't know.

If you believe that you are more than matter, then you would be spiritual. If you believe you are only matter, then you are a materialist. Can't get anymore simple or succinct than that.

I was exposed to religion when I was young. I realized quite early that I had no need for it.

Religion isn't God. Why are you equivocating?

I'm not. I have no use for gods therefore I have no use for religion.

I never equated them. That's you making shit up again

The path you didn't take was entering into a relationship with God. That is what you have never tested. Your response to that was you were exposed to religion when you were young and realized you had no use for it. That's you equivocating religion with God. They are two different things. So, no, I didn't make anything up.

So I will say again, you have never tested having a relationship with God so you have never traveled down that path and cannot hold an informed opinion on whether that relationship will enrich your life and make you become the best version of yourself. I have traveled both paths.

Like I said I have no use for gods. I gave up the idea of imaginary friends when I was 9 years old.