Does obama abuse his powers worse than lincoln?

[TNHarley]

facts facts facts
terrible things they are, ey?
I think its funny this fool Templar says lincolns abuse was justified to do what HE wanted, but probably goes around talking shit about Obama doin what HE wants. LOLOL

 

[TNHarley]

Lincoln should have been impeached for breaking his oath

 

[TemplarKormac]

It was an assumed right
Their vision centered around that philosophy.
You said that as a way to justify for Lincolns abuse, THEREFORE, meaning you are not in agreement with their visions. So, NO, I did not put words in your mouth
The gov't was getting to much power, they south was getting taxed heavier and it was their right to secede. So how were they "enemies"?

Do you hear yourself right now? And you never did substantiate these claims with any verifiable fact, like I asked you to. When I suddenly decided to get serious and stop hijacking your thread, you somehow run away from your argument. And yes, you did put words in my mouth, hotshot.

Freeing slaves was not a philosophy, it was an act of mercy, based on the belief of equality amongst all men.

How did I run away from my argument?
I clearly explained how you do not know what YOU say. You have a comprehension problem, so we will move on..
Lincoln did not believe blacks were equal to whites
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."
Source:

Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858
Any other fictitious posts?
Oh, and I didn't say slaves had anything to do with the Framers visions. The whole "being able to get rid of their gov't" thinggggy is.

You should thank bripat for linking to some reasonable sources. I am rarely turned from a stance. I'm beginning to agree to an extent. After reviewing my stances, he set many precedents for the downfall of the country, by placing too much faith in the Supreme Court, and it can be verified that he did only denounce slavery for political means.

In other words, I stand corrected.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBnw-wIb-AM]Abraham Lincoln, America's First Dictator. Judge Napolitano's History of Liberty pt. 2 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TemplarKormac]

facts facts facts
terrible things they are, ey?
I think its funny this fool Templar says lincolns abuse was justified to do what HE wanted, but probably goes around talking shit about Obama doin what HE wants. LOLOL

Hey, Liberals try justify his behavior all the time.

 

[bripat9643]

facts facts facts
terrible things they are, ey?
I think its funny this fool Templar says lincolns abuse was justified to do what HE wanted, but probably goes around talking shit about Obama doin what HE wants. LOLOL

I cut guys like Templar some slack because at least he's on the right side. A lot of conservatives mistakenly venerate Lincoln because they have been brainwashed all their lives to believe he was literally an angel.

 

[TemplarKormac]

facts facts facts
terrible things they are, ey?
I think its funny this fool Templar says lincolns abuse was justified to do what HE wanted, but probably goes around talking shit about Obama doin what HE wants. LOLOL

I cut guys like Templar some slack because at least he's on the right side. A lot of conservatives mistakenly venerate Lincoln because they have been brainwashed all their lives to believe he was literally an angel.

Thanks. It took you to make me see it. Lots of things I still need to learn. Luckly, I caught it before it got too bad.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I will apologize to Mr. Harley for hijacking his thread, and will gladly concede this debate. It has come to my attention that Lincoln's image has been fudged over a great deal.

 

[Wildman]

I think it is pretty damn close.
I think Lincoln was a greedy, manipulative asshole; Him suspending Habeas Corpus, expanding the Union army,(granted, it did get approved by Congress LATER) arresting anyone that opposed his views etc.
Basically, he just threw away the COTUS to get what HE wanted
I was doing some reading on it a couple of weeks ago, and honestly, I don't think he gave 2 shits about the slaves. More along the lines of industrialization and the countries economic interests!!
AND Obama; obamacare, drone surveillance, suppressing opposition, assault on the BoR etc
So what say you?
Do you think it was Lincoln or Obama?
Do you think lincolns abuse was justified because of the war? Why?

what say me ? i say you are a dumb fucking liarberal, Lincoln was fighting a WAR in his own country, what he done was what had to be done to save the United States of America, Oshithead is doing what he is doing to destroy America AND .., i believe wanting a war in this country once more. Lincoln did not have the time to debate with congress his actions which had to be done without delay, and yes, i do not believe he cared that much about the "slaves", that was a by product of the war.

 

[Wildman]

Well the did start the "highly centralized federal gov't" everyone is always talking about

He did? Can you substantiate that with a link or historical fact?

Lincoln's Culture of Death

The Mythical Lincoln

Was Lincoln a Tyrant?

The American Anti-Civil Liberties Union

Lincoln's 'Second American Revolution' by Thomas J. DiLorenzo

that is just great posting links to more Lincoln haters,

 

[TemplarKormac]

He did? Can you substantiate that with a link or historical fact?

Lincoln's Culture of Death

The Mythical Lincoln

Was Lincoln a Tyrant?

The American Anti-Civil Liberties Union

Lincoln's 'Second American Revolution' by Thomas J. DiLorenzo

that is just great posting links to more Lincoln haters,

I would love to see how you rebut them.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I think it is pretty damn close.
I think Lincoln was a greedy, manipulative asshole; Him suspending Habeas Corpus, expanding the Union army,(granted, it did get approved by Congress LATER) arresting anyone that opposed his views etc.
Basically, he just threw away the COTUS to get what HE wanted
I was doing some reading on it a couple of weeks ago, and honestly, I don't think he gave 2 shits about the slaves. More along the lines of industrialization and the countries economic interests!!
AND Obama; obamacare, drone surveillance, suppressing opposition, assault on the BoR etc
So what say you?
Do you think it was Lincoln or Obama?
Do you think lincolns abuse was justified because of the war? Why?

Only the Supreme Court can determine if a given president has ‘abused’ his powers, or otherwise acted in an un-Constitutional manner.

Consequently the president hasn’t ‘abused’ any of his powers.

Needless to say the partisan right will disagree.

 

[bripat9643]

I think it is pretty damn close.
I think Lincoln was a greedy, manipulative asshole; Him suspending Habeas Corpus, expanding the Union army,(granted, it did get approved by Congress LATER) arresting anyone that opposed his views etc.
Basically, he just threw away the COTUS to get what HE wanted
I was doing some reading on it a couple of weeks ago, and honestly, I don't think he gave 2 shits about the slaves. More along the lines of industrialization and the countries economic interests!!
AND Obama; obamacare, drone surveillance, suppressing opposition, assault on the BoR etc
So what say you?
Do you think it was Lincoln or Obama?
Do you think lincolns abuse was justified because of the war? Why?

what say me ? i say you are a dumb fucking liarberal, Lincoln was fighting a WAR in his own country, what he done was what had to be done to save the United States of America, Oshithead is doing what he is doing to destroy America AND .., i believe wanting a war in this country once more. Lincoln did not have the time to debate with congress his actions which had to be done without delay, and yes, i do not believe he cared that much about the "slaves", that was a by product of the war.

In other words, he had to destroy the village in order to save it.

Lincoln was a tyrant. You just admitted. He had no business making war on his fellow Americans.

 

[bripat9643]

I think it is pretty damn close.
I think Lincoln was a greedy, manipulative asshole; Him suspending Habeas Corpus, expanding the Union army,(granted, it did get approved by Congress LATER) arresting anyone that opposed his views etc.
Basically, he just threw away the COTUS to get what HE wanted
I was doing some reading on it a couple of weeks ago, and honestly, I don't think he gave 2 shits about the slaves. More along the lines of industrialization and the countries economic interests!!
AND Obama; obamacare, drone surveillance, suppressing opposition, assault on the BoR etc
So what say you?
Do you think it was Lincoln or Obama?
Do you think lincolns abuse was justified because of the war? Why?

Only the Supreme Court can determine if a given president has ‘abused’ his powers, or otherwise acted in an un-Constitutional manner.

Consequently the president hasn’t ‘abused’ any of his powers.

Needless to say the partisan right will disagree.

Uh, wrong. Until the Civil War each state had the right to pass judgement on the Constitutionality of the acts of the federal government.

Lincoln was a murdering tyrant. He was right up their with guys like Hitler and Stalin.

 

[bripat9643]

He did? Can you substantiate that with a link or historical fact?

Lincoln's Culture of Death

The Mythical Lincoln

Was Lincoln a Tyrant?

The American Anti-Civil Liberties Union

Lincoln's 'Second American Revolution' by Thomas J. DiLorenzo

that is just great posting links to more Lincoln haters,

Anyone with an ounce of sense who knows the facts would hate Lincoln. He was a brutal tyrant who was no lightweight compared to Stalin and Hitler.

 

[Avatar4321]

We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion. (D&C 121:39)

In other words, yes, he is abusing his power. Almost every man who obtains power abuses it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Lincoln is a tyrant for suspending Habeas Corpus and waging a war against rebels?

Why then does the Constitution allo Habeas Corpus to be suspended when fighting a war with rebels if doing so is tyrannical and shouldn't be done?

I'm confident from what Ive studied of Lincoln's life that he would have been one of the few people to return the power back to the people like Washington. Unfortunately, since he was murdered in cold blood, we will never know for sure.

I don't, however, think Obama would give the power back if he obtained it. There is a reason we need to elect trustworthy men of honor to be President. It's precisely because if they need to exercise more power than we would prefer, they would gladly give it back.

 

[bripat9643]

Lincoln is a tyrant for suspending Habeas Corpus and waging a war against rebels?

Why then does the Constitution allo Habeas Corpus to be suspended when fighting a war with rebels if doing so is tyrannical and shouldn't be done?

I'm confident from what Ive studied of Lincoln's life that he would have been one of the few people to return the power back to the people like Washington. Unfortunately, since he was murdered in cold blood, we will never know for sure.

I don't, however, think Obama would give the power back if he obtained it. There is a reason we need to elect trustworthy men of honor to be President. It's precisely because if they need to exercise more power than we would prefer, they would gladly give it back.

The Constitution allows Congress to suspend Habeas Corpus, and only when the courts are unable to function.

Lincoln also shut down over 300 news papers for printing information critical of his administration.

He had people executed without a trial.

he had people thrown in concentration camps.

He had the entire legislature of the state of Maryland thrown in prison.

He had his troops rape, loot and pillage American citizens.

he murdered 50,000 civilians in cold blood.

The list of his crimes goes on and on.

 

[Shoey]

President Obama has consistently denied due process of the law to suspected terrorists being held at GITMO. Obama authorized the extra judicial murder of U.S. citizens which defines a clear violation of International Law, a violation of U.S. statutory law and a violation of The 5th Amendment of The US Constitution. President Obama abused The War Powers Act as NATO was in clear violation of UNSC Resolution 1973's limited approval to institute a no-fly zone and safeguarding of attacks, specifically on civilian targets in Libya. The foundation of some of President Obama's foreign policy contradicts the ideals America was founded upon. President Obama rightfully deserved to be impeached, removed from the Oval Office and prosecuted to the fullest extent of American law, particularly for war crimes against humanity. The Rights of every American are attenuated when we permit our elected officials to commit felonies and not be held accountable under the laws of the United States Of America.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Check Comrade Bripat's sources: primarily anti-American sources.

Check to see how many are communist fronts.

You are the least of all to speak on this subject. At least bripat links to his arguments. Take time to learn from his example.

What could be more hilarious than a senile boot-licking old coot like Fakey accusing me of being a communist?

We see the union of Comrade Bripat and GameBoy Templar running around crapping in the corners.

Neither of them can offer evidence and carry argument.

When they do, the board members will stop tormenting them.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Who do you think taught Woodrow Wilson?
Did Lincoln shit on the COTUS yes or no?

What in heaven's name are you talking about? Lincoln died in 1865! Woodrow Wilson was president from 1913 to 1921, and was only 9 years old when Lincoln was assassinated! Where do you get this shit man?

No shit? HENCE me saying "who do you think TAUGHT WW" not who he taught..GEEEEZ genius..
I cant do this with you. You really are an idiot

Harley, you make one of the more asinine statements on the board this year then chastise others for pointing out you are an idiot.

Give us exact support and evidence of your claim.