Does raising the minimum wage reduce poverty?

[Couchpotato]

Ummmm...if we had a minimum wage adjusted for inflation using 1970 as a benchmark...it would be over $12/hr

You just partially explained WHY "it hasn't worked"...

Is this like socialism would work if only it were done right?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's because you still have enough people there who actually give a shit about each other -- their country in other words. Here we value what you do for money over everything such as the content of one's character or general happiness or easy access or doing anything in the public interest. Your people still know how to gather in the streets, bang pots and pans, demand reforms, scare your reps into submission.

Sounds like you need to move. You keep talking about how great other countries are, then go there already!

 

[Grumblenuts]

The labor shortage is a bunch of Bs. There are going to be an increasing number of jobs permanently unfilled. It's no crisis.

No, no, if "an employer" wants anything done cheap, everyone "unemployed" should just leap to do it. All very simple (minded).

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How do you do that when you're working two or three jobs just to keep a roof over your head? I've met a lot of guys driving cabs who were doctors, or engineers in their home countries and you ask them why they don't get licensed in their professions here. They can't go back to school when they're working 12 hour days, 7 days a week just to support their families.

And they have no money for the tuition for a professional degree.

And how many of those are there among our minimum wage workers, like maybe ten people? Why did they leave their country in the first place?

MW workers are generally kids and adults still living with their parents--not people raising a family of four or five. Even if that were the case, they shouldn't have had any children until they were financially stable.

 

[initforme]

Agreed Ray a good sized birth rate decline would ensure more higher paying jobs for future Americans. To that we both agree.

 

[Dragonlady]

That's because you still have enough people there who actually give a shit about each other -- their country in other words. Here we value what you do for money over everything such as the content of one's character or general happiness or easy access or doing anything in the public interest. Your people still know how to gather in the streets, bang pots and pans, demand reforms, scare your reps into submission.

It's in our Constitution. To help one another.

Brian Mulroney - the Prime Minister, who negotiated and signed the NAFTA Agreement, was not only voted out of office in the next election, we voted his entire fucking party out of existence. He got 3 seats in the House. You have to have 6 seats to have "official party status" and the Progressive Conservative Party lost their suite of offices in the Parliament Buildings.

What was left of the PC's amalgamated with the Western rump conservative Reform Party, to form the Conservative Party of Canada. Fear of a similar fate kept Stephen Harper from ending the Canada Health Act, which he once gave a speech that he would like to do.

 

[Anomalism]

And how many of those are there among our minimum wage workers, like maybe ten people? Why did they leave their country in the first place?

That was a ridiculous and meaningless anecdote pulled from that poster's rectum.

 

[initforme]

Why even hire MW workers. Just do the job yourself. Quit being so lazy and pathetic.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That was a ridiculous and meaningless anecdote pulled from that poster's rectum.

She's not even from our country and I have no idea what they do in Canada. What I do know is that no doctors or engineers are driving any cabs in the US. I have met truck drivers with college degrees though. They chose the wrong field of work (easy to pass classes) and found that driving a tractor-trailer pays better.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Brian Mulroney - the Prime Minister, who negotiated and signed the NAFTA Agreement, was not only voted out of office in the next election, we voted his entire fucking party out of existence.

Whereas our asshole signed the NAFTA Agreement and was voted back into office in the next election. Both of our major parties primarily exist to serve the moneyed interests and just continue getting away with it. We hate each other that much. Else, by now we'd also have affordable healthcare and many of those common sense, people-centric things you've mentioned.

 

[XponentialChaos]

You don't think but mainstream economists who study these effects do and the question is why you don't want to listen to them.

How Increasing the Federal Minimum Wage Could Affect Employment and Family Income | Congressional Budget Office

This interactive tool, updated in January 30, 2024, allows users to explore how various policies to increase the federal minimum wage would affect earnings, employment, family income, and poverty.

www.cbo.gov

Sure. Let’s look at that. This part stood out to me:

“THE EFFECTS ON INCOME

How would increasing the minimum wage affect family income? By boosting the income of low-wage workers who had jobs, a higher minimum wage would raise their families’ real income, lifting some of those families out of poverty. However, income would fall for some families because other workers would not be employed and because business owners would have to absorb at least some of the higher costs of labor. For those reasons, a minimum-wage increase would cause a net reduction in average family income.”

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[BULLDOG]

How many self checkouts, and ordering Kiosks at fast food restaurants have been installed lately? Some of that is the tech is there and peoples comfortability with the tech has increased. But the other thing is the raising of wages artificially makes that tech make more sense fiscally.

So? When is the last time that you saw one of those kiosks where you had to drop your film off to get it developed, or the last time you had to go into the bank and stand in line to withdraw some of your own money? Technology has and will replace lots of workers, and those worker's wages won't change that at all.

 

[Grumblenuts]

However, income would fall for some families because other workers would not be employed and because business owners would have to absorb at least some of the higher costs of labor. For those reasons, a minimum-wage increase would cause a net reduction in average family income.”

What are your thoughts on this?

No question -- Raising the MW does indeed force many cheap bastards to pay their employees more, seemingly cutting into profits to which they feel entitled. However, since employee costs remain fully tax deductible, smart cheapskates end up making the same, though may have to raise their prices a bit if they couldn't already see the MW increase coming

 

[Lesh]

Is this like socialism would work if only it were done right?

No...it's like you are flat out wrong. You claim that minimum wage should have eliminated poverty and ignore the fact that in real money (inflation adjusted)...that minimum wage has declined dramatically over time

 

[AntonToo]

Sure. Let’s look at that. This part stood out to me:

“THE EFFECTS ON INCOME

How would increasing the minimum wage affect family income? By boosting the income of low-wage workers who had jobs, a higher minimum wage would raise their families’ real income, lifting some of those families out of poverty. However, income would fall for some families because other workers would not be employed and because business owners would have to absorb at least some of the higher costs of labor. For those reasons, a minimum-wage increase would cause a net reduction in average family income.”

What are your thoughts on this?

My thoughts on minimum wage not being a free lunch? Well I think reasonable minimum wage level is well worth higher income people like myself giving up some purchasing power.

People working in fast food and most other manual, low paying jobs work as hard as others and without minimum wage laws their compensation often ends up abusively low.

I want minimal compensation for honest day's work. That's all.

 

[Lesh]

What an employee is worth is determined by the employer.

Ummmm...what happened to a negotiation between employer and employee that you fuckers always claim? It's a fantasy? Yea

What I do know is that no doctors or engineers are driving any cabs in the US.

This is why it is ridiculous to discuss anything with you.

You're a fucking idiot.

She was referring to people who were doctors etc. in their home countries

 

[Couchpotato]

No...it's like you are flat out wrong. You claim that minimum wage should have eliminated poverty and ignore the fact that in real money (inflation adjusted)...that minimum wage has declined dramatically over time

So it is. Got it.

 

[Couchpotato]

So? When is the last time that you saw one of those kiosks where you had to drop your film off to get it developed, or the last time you had to go into the bank and stand in line to withdraw some of your own money? Technology has and will replace lots of workers, and those worker's wages won't change that at all.

And the cost of labor has nothing to do with that decision calculus In your head?

 

[AntonToo]

And you don't understand that 6% is three times 2%?

I have a degree in mathematics, so yes, I understand basic algebra.

Is there an actual point to your post?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ummmm...what happened to a negotiation between employer and employee that you fuckers always claim? It's a fantasy? Yea

Not at all. Where did I say no negotiations? Negotiate all you want, but in the end it's the employer that determines your value to him.

This is why it is ridiculous to discuss anything with you.

You're a fucking idiot.

She was referring to people who were doctors etc. in their home countries

I know what she meant fucken idiot. What part about my post when I asked "why did they leave their country in the first place" did you not get? You're not the brightest bulb in the light bar, are you?