Dr. Laura's "N word" Rant

[Ravi]

And, as I said earlier, I knew I was going to regret wading in on this one. People who WANT to see racism in anything and everything won't be able to see this particular incident objectively and those who demand that others agree with them in order to be acceptable aren't likely to even understand what the issue actually is. But sometimes I'm a glutton for punishment.

I still think that anybody who can't find the irony, humor, and substance in that "All in the Family" clip have no sense of humor at all. I think mature grown ups, black and white, are most likely to laugh at demonstrating absurdity with absurdity and will be able to appreciate the dynamics at play and won't feel personally offended in the least. There are no doubt exceptions.

the dr Laura show is not a sitcom nor a comedy.

Aren't you seeing racism in the black woman? She's hypersensitive? She claimed her neighbor and her husband's friends and family repeatedly made remarks around her that bothered her and that the n-word was thrown about.

How is she hypersensitive? Because she's black?

Ravi, can you really sit there and type with a straight face that if the 'n' word was being thrown about in her home, that she would not have used that as her FIRST example? She didn't. She used a much less noxious and a much less offensive example as the first one that came to mind. She tossed out the 'n' word being thrown about comment only after she couldn't get Dr. Laura to bite 'appropriately' on the example she used.

Transcript

CALLER: How about the N-word? So, the N-word’s been thrown around –

SCHLESSINGER: Black guys use it all the time. Turn on HBO, listen to a black comic, and all you hear is nig*er, nig*er, nig*er.

CALLER: That isn’t –

SCHLESSINGER: I don’t get it. If anybody without enough melanin says it, it’s a horrible thing; but when black people say it, it’s affectionate. It’s very confusing. Don’t hang up, I want to talk to you some more. Don’t go away.

Madeline gently chastises me for not appreciating how hurtful the 'n' word is to black people. I appreciate it. And I appreciate how hurtful 'retard' is said to or about a mentally challenged person, or how 'fat' is hurtful to a person who is sensitive about his or her weight or how 'stupid' is hurtful to the child that just isn't understanding the assignment or whatever. Hurt is hurt no matter who is hurt.

Some members here on USMB use such hateful language it has no ability to hurt. One hateful phrase is no different than another and pretty soon it is just noise. I just shake my head at those folks who I can count on to say something insulting in almost every post and I respect their opinions pretty much not at all. There are members on USMB though that I would be hurt if they directed such insults at me because I have accepted them as better people than that.

And that was the point Dr. Laura was making whether or not you agree with her? How is it NOT racist to condemn a white person who says '******' when black people refer to themselves by that word so often? On radio. On television. In rap songs. Etc. etc. etc. Either the word is bad or it isn't. Don't you think it smacks of racism to say that one race can use that word but another race cannot? You don't see the absurdity in that? And doesn't it ring less than honest to think that the word doesn't hurt when a rapper uses it and does hurt when somebody white you don't even know uses it? That isn't hurt. That's just resentment of white people.

I'm sure if she had it to do all over again, Dr. Laura would not have blundered into this volatile area. But to accuse her of being racist or intentional hatefulness or whatever she is being accused of here is nothing short of silly. She was making a point in good faith and made the mistake of treating a hypersensitive black woman the same as she would have treated a hypersentive white woman or Asian woman or Native American woman or Hispanic woman or whatever.

All I'm saying if you want her hung, at least hang her for a crime she actually committed.

And no, I do not use the 'n' word nor condone anybody, black or white, using it to refer to anybody.

sigh...basically you seem to believe that because people say the word ****** this woman is both somehow responsible for it AND has no right to be offended.

That is what dr. Laura's point was and it is wrong.

And no, I don't believe for a minute that she would have reacted the same way toward a white woman's black husband's friends saying cracker or any other combination of events.

I've listened to her show.

 

[CurveLight]

I don't know if she's really a bigot. There are just a few things that should never be said when behind an open mic with millions listening. The word ****** is one of them.

But it's okay to write it on the 'net where tens of millions have access. Stoopid fucker.

It's unbelievably hyper-sensitive to say that the word should never be stated. PC bitches like you are a joke and a reason why progress gets obturated.

That's not what he said.

It's unbelievably hyper-sensitive to say that the word should never be stated "behind an open mic with millions listening."

There. Fixed it. Happy?

 

[saveliberty]

I am not saying it "should". I am saying it could. al sharpton has already contacted advertisers, asking them to reconsider their support for Dr. Laura. If you're running a talk show, do you want this?

Dr. Laura is already ending her show over this issue. She wants to say what she thinks without offending advertisers. Shock radio is not new.

I notice you are avoiding the double standard comments I have made. Are you supportive of blacks using the term? Rappers?

No. They make themselves sound stupid when they use it. I didn't mean to avoid that issue. I think there is a double standard. I think everyone in the media should quit using it. I do not, however, think it should be banned.

Thank you for the reply. I'm a cracker? What do I know about this subject? I do think your dividing line is reasonable and probably very practical. Mostly from the advertiser point of view you mentioned. I do think Dr. Laura was trying to help the listener and was trying to make the issue understandable and concrete. It went totally sideways from there. It is her show and her responsibility to pull it back into line. She did take responsibility after the fact. I do not consider it a rant.

 

[Ravi]

But it's okay to write it on the 'net where tens of millions have access. Stoopid fucker.

It's unbelievably hyper-sensitive to say that the word should never be stated. PC bitches like you are a joke and a reason why progress gets obturated.

That's not what he said.

It's unbelievably hyper-sensitive to say that the word should never be stated "behind an open mic with millions listening."

There. Fixed it. Happy?

It isn't hypersensitive any more that it would be hypersensitive to keep you off the airwaves with your comments about women.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

I am not saying it "should". I am saying it could. al sharpton has already contacted advertisers, asking them to reconsider their support for Dr. Laura. If you're running a talk show, do you want this?

I don't listen to Dr. Laura and I have never cared for her. But if I were among her listeners I would make a point to contact any sponsors who quit her because of this debacle and tell them this boycott stuff works both ways.

Again, I don't care for Dr. Laura but I don't believe she did anything to deserve all this negative controversy.

 

[Foxfyre]

the dr Laura show is not a sitcom nor a comedy.

Aren't you seeing racism in the black woman? She's hypersensitive? She claimed her neighbor and her husband's friends and family repeatedly made remarks around her that bothered her and that the n-word was thrown about.

How is she hypersensitive? Because she's black?

Ravi, can you really sit there and type with a straight face that if the 'n' word was being thrown about in her home, that she would not have used that as her FIRST example? She didn't. She used a much less noxious and a much less offensive example as the first one that came to mind. She tossed out the 'n' word being thrown about comment only after she couldn't get Dr. Laura to bite 'appropriately' on the example she used.

Transcript

CALLER: How about the N-word? So, the N-word’s been thrown around –

SCHLESSINGER: Black guys use it all the time. Turn on HBO, listen to a black comic, and all you hear is nig*er, nig*er, nig*er.

CALLER: That isn’t –

SCHLESSINGER: I don’t get it. If anybody without enough melanin says it, it’s a horrible thing; but when black people say it, it’s affectionate. It’s very confusing. Don’t hang up, I want to talk to you some more. Don’t go away.

Madeline gently chastises me for not appreciating how hurtful the 'n' word is to black people. I appreciate it. And I appreciate how hurtful 'retard' is said to or about a mentally challenged person, or how 'fat' is hurtful to a person who is sensitive about his or her weight or how 'stupid' is hurtful to the child that just isn't understanding the assignment or whatever. Hurt is hurt no matter who is hurt.

Some members here on USMB use such hateful language it has no ability to hurt. One hateful phrase is no different than another and pretty soon it is just noise. I just shake my head at those folks who I can count on to say something insulting in almost every post and I respect their opinions pretty much not at all. There are members on USMB though that I would be hurt if they directed such insults at me because I have accepted them as better people than that.

And that was the point Dr. Laura was making whether or not you agree with her? How is it NOT racist to condemn a white person who says '******' when black people refer to themselves by that word so often? On radio. On television. In rap songs. Etc. etc. etc. Either the word is bad or it isn't. Don't you think it smacks of racism to say that one race can use that word but another race cannot? You don't see the absurdity in that? And doesn't it ring less than honest to think that the word doesn't hurt when a rapper uses it and does hurt when somebody white you don't even know uses it? That isn't hurt. That's just resentment of white people.

I'm sure if she had it to do all over again, Dr. Laura would not have blundered into this volatile area. But to accuse her of being racist or intentional hatefulness or whatever she is being accused of here is nothing short of silly. She was making a point in good faith and made the mistake of treating a hypersensitive black woman the same as she would have treated a hypersentive white woman or Asian woman or Native American woman or Hispanic woman or whatever.

All I'm saying if you want her hung, at least hang her for a crime she actually committed.

And no, I do not use the 'n' word nor condone anybody, black or white, using it to refer to anybody.

sigh...basically you seem to believe that because people say the word ****** this woman is both somehow responsible for it AND has no right to be offended.

That is what dr. Laura's point was and it is wrong.

And no, I don't believe for a minute that she would have reacted the same way toward a white woman's black husband's friends saying cracker or any other combination of events.

I've listened to her show.

That isn't what I said at all Ravi. You ignored my point and you ignored my question:

If it is not hurtful for black people to use the 'n' word, then how hurtful could it really be if white people use the 'n' word? How much sense does it make for black people to be able to repeatedly use a word but white people cannot? Would you not see it as really stupid for white people to be able to repeatedly use a word that black people could not?

That is the point Dr. Laura was making. If you even attempt to answer my question you'll see that these days, the 'n' word has no more power than 'retard' or 'douche' or 'whore' or '****' or 'fat' or 'ugly'. But the 'n' word IS used pretty consistently for race baiting by both black and white, and I am absolutely convinced that is what the woman was doing when she brought it up.

If the 'n' word had been an issue in her home, she would have used that as the very first example when Dr. Laura asked her for one. She didn't.

And before you complain that I don't know what is in the woman's heart and mind, you're right. I don't. I can only judge by her words, actions, and demeanor on the clip that we have to work with.

And that's all you have to work with too. You can't know that Dr. Laura would have responded to other kinds of 'baiting' or uncomplimentary words or phrases any differently unless you test the theory.

 

[JakeStarkey]

<snip> And no, I do not use the 'n' word nor condone anybody, black or white, using it to refer to anybody.

This is the only words of worth you have used, Foxfyre. No nuance or sophistication or satire or irony has anything to do with such words in a public forum. You pick up manure, it sticks to you.

Well good. Then if you truly believe that you will believe that the woman caller who threw it out there was more wrong than Dr. Laura who only responded to it. The woman, I believe WAS race baiting. I do not believe Dr. Laura's response was racist. It wasn't well received, obviously, but it was not racist. And she should not be punished for it.

But P.C. is ALWAYS an issue for the left when violated by somebody on the right. I wish some of the more 'sensitive' types on U.S.M.B. would condemn more of that.

I am right of center, and it is an issue. No, the black woman was using it in a familial and cultural setting. She did not know how to deal with it. Dr. Laura, yes, revealed an internal racism with her lack of sensitivity to the issue.

So do you.

This is not about left, right, or center. It is about human decency or dignity.

You pick up manure, Foxfyre, it sticks to you, and you smell.

Do not excuse the inexcusable, do not play the far right whack PC card on those who are correct on this issue.

 

[MikeK]

I'm the furthest thing from PC. I'm saying if someone has a talkshow like doctor laura, and they want to continue having the show without a fallout from advertisers, they should avoid talking about the word ******. simple as that.

That is a mandate which I and many others find grievous fault with. I'd like to ask what you believe the word ****** means.

Further, if you have ever read Mark Twain's, Huckleberry Finn, I will ask how you feel about Twain's liberal use of that word throughout this classic work in American literature. Do you think this book should be banned? How about some of Erskine Caldwell's work, should any of it which contains the word ****** be banned?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I'm the furthest thing from PC. I'm saying if someone has a talkshow like doctor laura, and they want to continue having the show without a fallout from advertisers, they should avoid talking about the word ******. simple as that.

That is a mandate which I and many others find grievous fault with. I'd like to ask what you believe the word ****** means.

Further, if you have ever read Mark Twain's, Huckleberry Finn, I will ask how you feel about Twain's liberal use of that word throughout this classic work in American literature. Do you think this book should be banned? How about some of Erskine Caldwell's work, should any of it which contains the word ****** be banned?

MikeK, you need to nuance that question. A broad brush in and of itself makes no sense. Better yet, ask why Huck still uses the term. Ask yourself why Huck does not ask Jim to go "west". And ask what Twain is suggesting.

 

[Foxfyre]

This is the only words of worth you have used, Foxfyre. No nuance or sophistication or satire or irony has anything to do with such words in a public forum. You pick up manure, it sticks to you.

Well good. Then if you truly believe that you will believe that the woman caller who threw it out there was more wrong than Dr. Laura who only responded to it. The woman, I believe WAS race baiting. I do not believe Dr. Laura's response was racist. It wasn't well received, obviously, but it was not racist. And she should not be punished for it.

But P.C. is ALWAYS an issue for the left when violated by somebody on the right. I wish some of the more 'sensitive' types on U.S.M.B. would condemn more of that.

I am right of center, and it is an issue. No, the black woman was using it in a familial and cultural setting. She did not know how to deal with it. Dr. Laura, yes, revealed an internal racism with her lack of sensitivity to the issue.

So do you.

This is not about left, right, or center. It is about human decency or dignity.

You pick up manure, Foxfyre, it sticks to you, and you smell.

Do not excuse the inexcusable, do not play the far right whack PC card on those who are correct on this issue.

I'm sure that makes sense to you Jake. It is absolutely incoherent to me except that in some way you are doing your damndest to personally insult me.

Which is why I so rarely respond to your posts.

Ah well. I will restrain from doing that again as much as possible. Sorry for the interruption.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am not insulting you, Foxfyre. I am saying that you do not get it, which is a shame. If you cannot understand by now, then I will let this go.

 

[Madeline]

And, as I said earlier, I knew I was going to regret wading in on this one. People who WANT to see racism in anything and everything won't be able to see this particular incident objectively and those who demand that others agree with them in order to be acceptable aren't likely to even understand what the issue actually is. But sometimes I'm a glutton for punishment.

I still think that anybody who can't find the irony, humor, and substance in that "All in the Family" clip have no sense of humor at all. I think mature grown ups, black and white, are most likely to laugh at demonstrating absurdity with absurdity and will be able to appreciate the dynamics at play and won't feel personally offended in the least. There are no doubt exceptions.

foxfyre, we all have a public face and a private face. Mebbe you'd feel comfy saying the n word to people you were friends with, who could trust you had no malice behind it. That's a far cry from getting on the radio, broadcast nationally, and spewing the n word eleven times, telling a black women she shouldn't marry outside her race, and announcing you call one of your employees "n*gger".

I don't think you fully appreciate this, but in some contexts the word is still terribly painful. Not just to blacks...the turmoil and struggle of the last 50 years did not happen only to blacks. I was hurt by what Dr laura said. I am delighted she's been forced off the air. Not only will she not repeat it, but others will have their impulse to speak this way cooled as well. There'll be a little less hate, a little less pain and little more civility.

This is not about the First Amendment. No one has a First Amendment right to be employed as a radio host. Apparently her station thought that it was no longer profitable to employ her. I'm delighted by this as well.

You're one of the sooper-sensitive people Laura was talking about and you twisted what she said to justify you're self-righteous rant.

Yes I am. And apparently, there are enough of people like me to cause employers and sponsors to fear us and our buying power. Ya me!

 

[Madeline]

Madeline, please quote from the transcript where Dr L said she referred to an employee as a "******."

I don't have a written transcript, Curvey. Listen to the clip in the Op; it's only a few minutes long. She says (parapharsing here) "I am friends with my bodyguard and I tell him he has to be on my side in basketball because n*ggers are best at basketball."

Made my flesh creep.

 

[Madeline]

MikeK, two words: shut up. The word is wrong. What don't you understand?

What you refuse to understand, probably because of some social problem of your own, is there is no such thing as a wrong word -- only wrong usage. And that's what this issue is about.

You and I are blessed with free speech by the Constitution. That doesn't mean I can call you a ****** and not be censured for it, because that is an insult. But if I wish to use the word ****** in an academic context, which is what Dr. Laura (whom I have no affection for) did, that is her right to do without hypersensitive panderers like you getting all puffy about it

As I understand it, the woman who called Dr. Laura was seeking affirmation that White people must always carefully filter their thoughts and adapt their vocabularies to accommodate what Black people consider right and wrong. You are willing to do that. I am not. If you don't like something about my conversation you are free to exercise your right to walk away and avoid me forever. But so long as I am not directly addressing you don't you tell me what words you think I should be able to use or not use, because to do so is simply arrogant.

The setting was not "academic"; it was entertainment, the media, talk radio...but there was absolutely nothing "academic" about it. It is not just blacks who have reached a group consensus that this word is not to be used in casual, public conversation and for sure never when spoken by a white person to a black person. I'm not black, and I violently object as well.

The caller may or may not have had a handle on the motives and speech patterns of her husband's friends and family. We'll never know, since Dr Laura didn't allow her to explain. But when you enter the Big Bad World, you must conduct yourself in a manner acceptable to civilized people or pay the cost. If you cherish your First Amendment right to say the n word, and I completely concede you have one, then you should be prepared to be avoided, fired, or otherwise socially rebuffed for it.

 

[Madeline]

MikeK, two words: shut up. The word is wrong. What don't you understand?

Like I said, the PC Police are in full attendance and suited up in riot gear.

I can't tell you how pleased I am to learn that you consider yourself a Republican.

Fuck you, Ravi. Racism is not a Republican value, as you have implied.

 

[Madeline]

WHy are you guys using the word, if it is so offensive? Why is it okay for you to use in a discussion, but Dr. Laura is just a bigot? Sounds like a double standard, AGAIN.

I don't know if she's really a bigot. There are just a few things that should never be said when behind an open mic with millions listening. The word ****** is one of them.

But saying/singing/rapping it twenty-five times in a song is just fine. I understand what your saying Elvis, it just should apply to everyone for true equality.

I too would love to see the n word disappear altogether, but the young realize how inflammatory it is and like every other generation since Time Began, they delight in pissing off their elders. There are no older black professionals calling one another the n word in public, and if there are any white professionals using the n word on blacks, they won't be employed for long.

In a way, the free market does regulate the use of the n word. If people stopped buying CDs tomorrow where the word was used in the lyrics, the music industry would find new artists and life would go on.

In a perfect world, the n word would be spoken only in History classes.

 

[CurveLight]

Madeline, please quote from the transcript where Dr L said she referred to an employee as a "******."

I don't have a written transcript, Curvey. Listen to the clip in the Op; it's only a few minutes long. She says (parapharsing here) "I am friends with my bodyguard and I tell him he has to be on my side in basketball because n*ggers are best at basketball."

Made my flesh creep.

There is a transcript in the OP link. Who wrote the OP? Once again, please quote from the transcript where she called her employees ******* as you have claimed.

 

[Madeline]

I don't know where you get the idea you can order me to do your homework, Curvey, but t'aint happening.

 

[elvis]

I'm the furthest thing from PC. I'm saying if someone has a talkshow like doctor laura, and they want to continue having the show without a fallout from advertisers, they should avoid talking about the word ******. simple as that.

That is a mandate which I and many others find grievous fault with. I'd like to ask what you believe the word ****** means.

Further, if you have ever read Mark Twain's, Huckleberry Finn, I will ask how you feel about Twain's liberal use of that word throughout this classic work in American literature. Do you think this book should be banned? How about some of Erskine Caldwell's work, should any of it which contains the word ****** be banned?

i have already stated I do not want the word banned. I am saying people in general should use more discretion than to use it.

 

[RadiomanATL]

She had a whiny interview on Larry King about her need for freedom of speech, and how she's going to pursue it through other means.

YouTube - LKL - Dr. Laura Ending Her Radio Show

So in other words, she really has no idea what the first amendment actually means.

Sure she does. But as she said, she doesn't see any point in having her self expression cost others, and in the climate we are now in she feels she has to go to other venues, where that is on her and not on others.

She's talking about the desire of some in our country to silence others instead of offering reasoned debate.

I've never seen Dr Laura so near to tears. She's tired.

As a member of her audience, when she was still on in our market, I always listened because I was certain to learn from her in the realm I'm most interested, human nature. I actually feel that she made me a better man, because I was so often reminded by her that being weak is no good excuse for bad behavior.

Nothing that you have said demonstrates that she knows what it means. Actually, what you've said just reinforces the idea that she doesn't know what it means.