Eden Garden of the GodS

[Penelope]

Getting back to the OP, the reason Sumerians have an account similar to Genesis is because they shared a common ancestry/belief with the Jews before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

How anyone could come to any other possible conclusion is beyond logic.

There were not even Jews in the days of the flood.

That's probably true.

No one obeyed all of God's demands until Abraham; it's in Genesis right before God destroys the Plain of Sodom.

Deut 27: 22 “Cursed be anyone who has relations with his sister, whether his father’s daughter or his mother’s daughter!” And all the people shall answer, “Amen!”

What commands did God have at that time, Seems to me God made laws against incest and lying, later, and

Moses Dad married his brothers sister, Aunt.

Leviticus 18:12 English Standard Version (ESV)

12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's relative.

Exodus 6:20

20 Amram married his aunt Jochebed, who bore him Aaron, Moses, and Miriam.

Lot who the Lord let go, offered his virgin dtrs to the men and then they got their father drunk and had sex with them.

All according to scripture.

 

[Indeependent]

I told you to get back to me when you found a Mathematician who says the universe is possible.
Now go away and find one.

Of course the universe is possible.

Not mathematically.

Yes, there is even an elegant mathematical formula. It is called inflation theory.

Google says no.

You shouldn't rely on google.

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. If it is a periodic universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Alexander Vilinken

You are talking theory and there are many excellent theories.
I'm talking mathematical possibilities.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I guess all that Temple stuff they're finding is hearsay.
Ever try actually reading something?

I'm sure she reads a lot of stuff. Reading isn't the problem. It's what she is reading for that is the problem.

BTW I warned you about TN.

I don't find TN offensive.
My own search has taken many years.

Mine did to. I never did what he does.

I guess it could be worse. He could be like Taz, er I mean Mudda.

Took me 10 years of attempting to reconcile something I saw. I was probably negative at points. But as long as you desire truth it works it’s way to the surface.

What did you see?

I have only discussed it with a few people. But thankfully my wife saw it too so I know I did not hallucinate.

 

[ding]

Getting back to the OP, the reason Sumerians have an account similar to Genesis is because they shared a common ancestry/belief with the Jews before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

How anyone could come to any other possible conclusion is beyond logic.

There were not even Jews in the days of the flood.

That's probably true.

No one obeyed all of God's demands until Abraham; it's in Genesis right before God destroys the Plain of Sodom.

Deut 27: 22 “Cursed be anyone who has relations with his sister, whether his father’s daughter or his mother’s daughter!” And all the people shall answer, “Amen!”

What commands did God have at that time, Seems to me God made laws against incest and lying, later, and

Moses Dad married his brothers sister, Aunt.

Leviticus 18:12 English Standard Version (ESV)

12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's relative.

Exodus 6:20

20 Amram married his aunt Jochebed, who bore him Aaron, Moses, and Miriam.

Lot who the Lord let go, offered his virgin dtrs to the men and then they got their father drunk and had sex with them.

All according to scripture.

Actually the commandment is not bearing false witness against a neighbor. Lying is ok as long as it is not lying to harm your fellow man.

As for the rest, the Bible is a how to book. It tells us how to live and how not to live. I love that it tells the whole story and doesn't hold back anything.

 

[Indeependent]

Getting back to the OP, the reason Sumerians have an account similar to Genesis is because they shared a common ancestry/belief with the Jews before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

How anyone could come to any other possible conclusion is beyond logic.

There were not even Jews in the days of the flood.

That's probably true.

No one obeyed all of God's demands until Abraham; it's in Genesis right before God destroys the Plain of Sodom.

Deut 27: 22 “Cursed be anyone who has relations with his sister, whether his father’s daughter or his mother’s daughter!” And all the people shall answer, “Amen!”

What commands did God have at that time, Seems to me God made laws against incest and lying, later, and

Moses Dad married his brothers sister, Aunt.

Leviticus 18:12 English Standard Version (ESV)

12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's relative.

Exodus 6:20

20 Amram married his aunt Jochebed, who bore him Aaron, Moses, and Miriam.

Lot who the Lord let go, offered his virgin dtrs to the men and then they got their father drunk and had sex with them.

All according to scripture.

Since you're such a maven go find the verse; I pretty much told you where it is.
It seems all you can find are the verses that you can use to manifest your Jew hatred.

 

[ding]

Of course the universe is possible.

Not mathematically.

Yes, there is even an elegant mathematical formula. It is called inflation theory.

Google says no.

You shouldn't rely on google.

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. If it is a periodic universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Alexander Vilinken

You are talking theory and there are many excellent theories.
I'm talking mathematical possibilities.

There aren't many excellent theories.

Why don't you explain what you mean by mathematical possibilities. Preferably in 25 words or less.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Same proof I have of who and when Julius Ceaser was. Historical record.

So nothing really, just the bible. Got it.

Bible continues to be shown to be 100% accurate in historical events. Bible is not all theology.

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back again?

The land was one continent before the flood. During the flood the earth was ripped up into what we have today. You make ice by water evaporation so as the waters receded an ice age began which allowed low sea levels and animals could migrate.

Any other questions?

But how do you explain the fact that the geologic record doesn’t support what you say?

The geologic record proves my position, that is why I have that position. I have no horse in that race, there are a dozen theories I could grab onto that does not contradict the Biblical account, even the one you currently believe in.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Getting back to the OP, the reason Sumerians have an account similar to Genesis is because they shared a common ancestry/belief with the Jews before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

How anyone could come to any other possible conclusion is beyond logic.

There were not even Jews in the days of the flood.

That's probably true.

No one obeyed all of God's demands until Abraham; it's in Genesis right before God destroys the Plain of Sodom.

Deut 27: 22 “Cursed be anyone who has relations with his sister, whether his father’s daughter or his mother’s daughter!” And all the people shall answer, “Amen!”

What commands did God have at that time, Seems to me God made laws against incest and lying, later, and

Moses Dad married his brothers sister, Aunt.

Leviticus 18:12 English Standard Version (ESV)

12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's relative.

Exodus 6:20

20 Amram married his aunt Jochebed, who bore him Aaron, Moses, and Miriam.

Lot who the Lord let go, offered his virgin dtrs to the men and then they got their father drunk and had sex with them.

All according to scripture.

Since you're such a maven go find the verse; I pretty much told you where it is.
It seems all you can find are the verses that you can use to manifest your Jew hatred.

She's Catholic going to some kind of cult church. You have to tell her what "verse" means.

 

[TNHarley]

Physical evidence is dwarfed by faith? Maybe part of the problem is YOUR closed mindedness. You ever think about that?

A book is physical evidence?
You're easy to please.

What? What book?

You're reading stuff on the Internet and treating it like it's a physical object you can grab onto.
There's lots of stuff on the Internet...not everything is physically accessible.
I am skeptical of history that glows too much.

Basic geology glows too much?
Geology is just internet shit?
Wow billions of people and science are so wrong its pathetic!

Finding oil and gas is one thing.
Carbon dating is bullshit.

See? Thats just what im talking about. Personal spin, not gods word.
In fact, i remember you agreeing with me in that sentemant in a thread about the NT

Everything in life has a personal spin, but that makes for a living religion.
You want a religion that disallows differences of opinion?
You want a country that disallows differences of opinion?

So you admit it is only opinion, yet get on my ass for not seeing it your way?
Lol do YOU?

I'm getting on your ass for not focusing.
Spend a week on each religions history.
Why are you so averse to this idea?
It makes me think you are looking for a way to dismiss religion.
You can be an agnostic, just don't jump all over the place.

Why? You have already stated i should just listen to opinions you accept. So whats the point?
You can be religous, just dont jump all over the place

You're jumping.
Why are you so resistant to keeping to one religion and region at a time?
Maybe you're become a Buddist or a Taoist?
Maybe you're looking for something spiritual where no one will bug you with rules.

So are you! Thats the only way to defend a religion filled with holes.
Rules meaning believe what i say or you are an idiot? Lol omg

 

[TNHarley]

Lol holy shit. Inde says the internet is wrong. Geology is wrong. Science is wrong. But google is ok

 

[Weatherman2020]

Prove The Revolutionary War.

So what historical account are you talk8ng about? The bible? It’s not a history book, it’s all hearsay.

I guess all that Temple stuff they're finding is hearsay.
Ever try actually reading something?

The NT was written several generations after the facts. Do you believe everything they say at the temple no matter how absurd?

The earliest writing of Alex the Great was 300 years after his death. Do you question he existed?

I question everything about him if that is the case. Look, Jesus may have existed, but all the magic tricks attributed to him? Extraordinary claims needs extraordinary proof.

And the proof is motive. Every criminal detective first looks at motive. So what was the motive for fabricating fantastic miracles?
Power? No, says we are to submit to the government and each other as individuals.
Money? No, says you give what you wish under no duress.
Fame? NT letters were written after his death. All disciples except one were executed for their faith.
To paraphrase CS Lewis, Jesus was either histories most famous suicidal narcissist or he was who he said he was.

Simple logic tells you that since there is no motive for fabricating such stories, they must be true.

 

[TNHarley]

So what historical account are you talk8ng about? The bible? It’s not a history book, it’s all hearsay.

I guess all that Temple stuff they're finding is hearsay.
Ever try actually reading something?

The NT was written several generations after the facts. Do you believe everything they say at the temple no matter how absurd?

The earliest writing of Alex the Great was 300 years after his death. Do you question he existed?

I question everything about him if that is the case. Look, Jesus may have existed, but all the magic tricks attributed to him? Extraordinary claims needs extraordinary proof.

And the proof is motive. Every criminal detective first looks at motive. So what was the motive for fabricating fantastic miracles?
Power? No, says we are to submit to the government and each other as individuals.
Money? No, says you give what you wish under no duress.
Fame? NT letters were written after his death. All disciples except one were executed for their faith.
To paraphrase CS Lewis, Jesus was either histories most famous suicidal narcissist or he was who he said he was.

Simple logic tells you that since there is no motive for fabricating such stories, they must be true.

There was is no motive in religion? Really?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Bible continues to be shown to be 100% accurate in historical events. Bible is not all theology.

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back again?

The land was one continent before the flood. During the flood the earth was ripped up into what we have today. You make ice by water evaporation so as the waters receded an ice age began which allowed low sea levels and animals could migrate.

Any other questions?

See? Thats a problem with me. How can you say the flood came before pangea broke apart when that happened millions of years ago.

Why do you say millions of years ago?
Yeah, you took what humans said who filled in blanks to make it fit their agenda.

It’s a 2 way street.

Physical evidence is dwarfed by faith? Maybe part of the problem is YOUR closed mindedness. You ever think about that?

What physical evidence? Like this 5 million year old layers of strata?

This canyon carved over millions of years by water?

They were all formed in about 2 weeks by Mount St Helens.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I guess all that Temple stuff they're finding is hearsay.
Ever try actually reading something?

The NT was written several generations after the facts. Do you believe everything they say at the temple no matter how absurd?

The earliest writing of Alex the Great was 300 years after his death. Do you question he existed?

I question everything about him if that is the case. Look, Jesus may have existed, but all the magic tricks attributed to him? Extraordinary claims needs extraordinary proof.

And the proof is motive. Every criminal detective first looks at motive. So what was the motive for fabricating fantastic miracles?
Power? No, says we are to submit to the government and each other as individuals.
Money? No, says you give what you wish under no duress.
Fame? NT letters were written after his death. All disciples except one were executed for their faith.
To paraphrase CS Lewis, Jesus was either histories most famous suicidal narcissist or he was who he said he was.

Simple logic tells you that since there is no motive for fabricating such stories, they must be true.

There was is no motive in religion? Really?

I have yet to find any motive of the Bible other than my and your salvation.

 

[TNHarley]

The NT was written several generations after the facts. Do you believe everything they say at the temple no matter how absurd?

The earliest writing of Alex the Great was 300 years after his death. Do you question he existed?

I question everything about him if that is the case. Look, Jesus may have existed, but all the magic tricks attributed to him? Extraordinary claims needs extraordinary proof.

And the proof is motive. Every criminal detective first looks at motive. So what was the motive for fabricating fantastic miracles?
Power? No, says we are to submit to the government and each other as individuals.
Money? No, says you give what you wish under no duress.
Fame? NT letters were written after his death. All disciples except one were executed for their faith.
To paraphrase CS Lewis, Jesus was either histories most famous suicidal narcissist or he was who he said he was.

Simple logic tells you that since there is no motive for fabricating such stories, they must be true.

There was is no motive in religion? Really?

I have yet to find any motive of the Bible other than my and your salvation.

That would be motive, my dear weatherman.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Prove The Revolutionary War.

Straight from The Earth is Flat contingent. There is a mountain of proof of the Revolutionary War. They you aren't familiar with it doesn't mean it didn't happen, although you seem to be of the notion that if YOU declare something fake then it didn't happen.

Let us guess, a Lying Trump supporter.

And Rabban Gamliel states in the Talmud that the Eatth is a globe.
And I trust your proof like I trust today’s media.

Uh huh. Yet you trust each engineer and laborer that paved the roads you drive on daily, and constructed the stop lights, stop signs, and road markings. The brakes on every other car on the road, the precision of the steering mechanism, the pure belief that the gasoline in your car won't explode everyday and burn you to death, or the gasoline in every other car, truck, bus, and motorcycle. You trust engineers and manufacturing plant workers on the floor pressing out tires for your car, that they won't explode, or melt, or fail every single time you drive. You implicitly trust every person that made every one of the hundreds of thousands of parts on every airliner that flies overhead, the pilots, the worker that put together the fuel tanks, the mechanic that replaced the left engine, and the wing rivets, the tail bolts, the windscreen rubber, the altimiter, GPS, airspeed indicator, throttle, landing gear mechanism...

You trust a million mundane things every single day. But you are always ready with a ludicrous defense of some ludicrous bullshit you believe no matter how ridiculous.

I imagine you trust the laborer that put together your pc that you won't be electrocuted in the next 30 seconds. It's just the PH.D's in physics, biology, chemistry, history, climatology, oceanography of the world you have a problem with.

Are those things really good examples of trust?

When a pedestrian walks across the road talking on his phone oblivious to the car that is speeding towards him, do you think he trusts that driver to obey the pedestrian crosswalk laws or do you think he is just oblivious to the risk he is taking?

The definition of faith is to have complete trust in something. I don't put complete faith in something without good reason and I sure as hell am not oblivious to the risks I take every single day.

Let's be honest here, OK? You don't have arguments for your beliefs. You have arguments against the beliefs of others.

Hilarious that someone who spends so much time mocking Christianity uses the handle of one of the most devout famous Christians in history.

 

[TNHarley]

Lol its funny we are all discrediting one source and relying on another.
Whats sad is, the rube from TN is the only one that sees it..

 

[TNHarley]

Straight from The Earth is Flat contingent. There is a mountain of proof of the Revolutionary War. They you aren't familiar with it doesn't mean it didn't happen, although you seem to be of the notion that if YOU declare something fake then it didn't happen.

Let us guess, a Lying Trump supporter.

And Rabban Gamliel states in the Talmud that the Eatth is a globe.
And I trust your proof like I trust today’s media.

Uh huh. Yet you trust each engineer and laborer that paved the roads you drive on daily, and constructed the stop lights, stop signs, and road markings. The brakes on every other car on the road, the precision of the steering mechanism, the pure belief that the gasoline in your car won't explode everyday and burn you to death, or the gasoline in every other car, truck, bus, and motorcycle. You trust engineers and manufacturing plant workers on the floor pressing out tires for your car, that they won't explode, or melt, or fail every single time you drive. You implicitly trust every person that made every one of the hundreds of thousands of parts on every airliner that flies overhead, the pilots, the worker that put together the fuel tanks, the mechanic that replaced the left engine, and the wing rivets, the tail bolts, the windscreen rubber, the altimiter, GPS, airspeed indicator, throttle, landing gear mechanism...

You trust a million mundane things every single day. But you are always ready with a ludicrous defense of some ludicrous bullshit you believe no matter how ridiculous.

I imagine you trust the laborer that put together your pc that you won't be electrocuted in the next 30 seconds. It's just the PH.D's in physics, biology, chemistry, history, climatology, oceanography of the world you have a problem with.

Are those things really good examples of trust?

When a pedestrian walks across the road talking on his phone oblivious to the car that is speeding towards him, do you think he trusts that driver to obey the pedestrian crosswalk laws or do you think he is just oblivious to the risk he is taking?

The definition of faith is to have complete trust in something. I don't put complete faith in something without good reason and I sure as hell am not oblivious to the risks I take every single day.

Let's be honest here, OK? You don't have arguments for your beliefs. You have arguments against the beliefs of others.

Hilarious that someone who spends so much time mocking Christianity uses the handle of one of the most devout famous Christians in history.

Its hilarious that someone that uses a handle that relies on science bashes science.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The earliest writing of Alex the Great was 300 years after his death. Do you question he existed?

I question everything about him if that is the case. Look, Jesus may have existed, but all the magic tricks attributed to him? Extraordinary claims needs extraordinary proof.

And the proof is motive. Every criminal detective first looks at motive. So what was the motive for fabricating fantastic miracles?
Power? No, says we are to submit to the government and each other as individuals.
Money? No, says you give what you wish under no duress.
Fame? NT letters were written after his death. All disciples except one were executed for their faith.
To paraphrase CS Lewis, Jesus was either histories most famous suicidal narcissist or he was who he said he was.

Simple logic tells you that since there is no motive for fabricating such stories, they must be true.

There was is no motive in religion? Really?

I have yet to find any motive of the Bible other than my and your salvation.

That would be motive, my dear weatherman.

OK, I should have said ulterior motive.

 

[Weatherman2020]

And Rabban Gamliel states in the Talmud that the Eatth is a globe.
And I trust your proof like I trust today’s media.

Uh huh. Yet you trust each engineer and laborer that paved the roads you drive on daily, and constructed the stop lights, stop signs, and road markings. The brakes on every other car on the road, the precision of the steering mechanism, the pure belief that the gasoline in your car won't explode everyday and burn you to death, or the gasoline in every other car, truck, bus, and motorcycle. You trust engineers and manufacturing plant workers on the floor pressing out tires for your car, that they won't explode, or melt, or fail every single time you drive. You implicitly trust every person that made every one of the hundreds of thousands of parts on every airliner that flies overhead, the pilots, the worker that put together the fuel tanks, the mechanic that replaced the left engine, and the wing rivets, the tail bolts, the windscreen rubber, the altimiter, GPS, airspeed indicator, throttle, landing gear mechanism...

You trust a million mundane things every single day. But you are always ready with a ludicrous defense of some ludicrous bullshit you believe no matter how ridiculous.

I imagine you trust the laborer that put together your pc that you won't be electrocuted in the next 30 seconds. It's just the PH.D's in physics, biology, chemistry, history, climatology, oceanography of the world you have a problem with.

Are those things really good examples of trust?

When a pedestrian walks across the road talking on his phone oblivious to the car that is speeding towards him, do you think he trusts that driver to obey the pedestrian crosswalk laws or do you think he is just oblivious to the risk he is taking?

The definition of faith is to have complete trust in something. I don't put complete faith in something without good reason and I sure as hell am not oblivious to the risks I take every single day.

Let's be honest here, OK? You don't have arguments for your beliefs. You have arguments against the beliefs of others.

Hilarious that someone who spends so much time mocking Christianity uses the handle of one of the most devout famous Christians in history.

Its hilarious that someone that uses a handle that relies on science to bash science.

Dude, I made my career in science. I have never bashed science unless it is BS being sold as science.