Eight Myths about the Bible

[mudwhistle]

Someone keeps confusing Christianity with the Bible.

 

[DriftingSand]

A person who's been awakened by the Holy Spirit will NEVER convince folks who haven't been. So the debate rages on! Either a person knows or they don't. Fighting over the various Catholic Councils and Papal Bulls is a meaningless waste of time.

 

[mudwhistle]

A person who's been awakened by the Holy Spirit will NEVER convince folks who haven't been. So the debate rages on! Either a person knows or they don't. Fighting over the various Catholic Councils and Papal Bulls is a meaningless waste of time.

Just the other day 3 Christians gunned down 12 journalists in Paris France.......


..........oh,...


...that was Muslims.....


....nevermind.

 

[Iceweasel]

A person who's been awakened by the Holy Spirit will NEVER convince folks who haven't been. So the debate rages on! Either a person knows or they don't. Fighting over the various Catholic Councils and Papal Bulls is a meaningless waste of time.

I was a Christian for 22 years and studied quite a bit. I know the routine probably better than you, spiritually blind, unsaved, etc. The facts are that the Bible was assembled by vote and consensus, based on stories cobbled together from various sources to establish a state religion for a sun worshipping emperor. One can pretend anything with a religion, it needs no facts.

 

[BluePhantom]

A person who's been awakened by the Holy Spirit will NEVER convince folks who haven't been. So the debate rages on! Either a person knows or they don't. Fighting over the various Catholic Councils and Papal Bulls is a meaningless waste of time.

I was a Christian for 22 years and studied quite a bit. I know the routine probably better than you, spiritually blind, unsaved, etc. The facts are that the Bible was assembled by vote and consensus, based on stories cobbled together from various sources to establish a state religion for a sun worshipping emperor. One can pretend anything with a religion, it needs no facts.

The Bible was put together by vote? When was this? I have studied religion and the history of Christianity for 35 years and this is the first I have heard of a vote on what the Biblical cannon would be. You might want to look that one up. It pretty much just came together over time.

 

[BluePhantom]

Just as an afterthought Iceweasel it's still not settled. Catholics use one version of the Bible, Protestants use another, some Eastern Orthodox churches use a completely different one. It still isn't settled

 

[MaxGrit]

A person who's been awakened by the Holy Spirit will NEVER convince folks who haven't been. So the debate rages on! Either a person knows or they don't. Fighting over the various Catholic Councils and Papal Bulls is a meaningless waste of time.

I was a Christian for 22 years and studied quite a bit. I know the routine probably better than you, spiritually blind, unsaved, etc. The facts are that the Bible was assembled by vote and consensus, based on stories cobbled together from various sources to establish a state religion for a sun worshipping emperor. One can pretend anything with a religion, it needs no facts.

The Word of God always win.

 

[Iceweasel]

A person who's been awakened by the Holy Spirit will NEVER convince folks who haven't been. So the debate rages on! Either a person knows or they don't. Fighting over the various Catholic Councils and Papal Bulls is a meaningless waste of time.

I was a Christian for 22 years and studied quite a bit. I know the routine probably better than you, spiritually blind, unsaved, etc. The facts are that the Bible was assembled by vote and consensus, based on stories cobbled together from various sources to establish a state religion for a sun worshipping emperor. One can pretend anything with a religion, it needs no facts.

The Bible was put together by vote? When was this? I have studied religion and the history of Christianity for 35 years and this is the first I have heard of a vote on what the Biblical cannon would be. You might want to look that one up. It pretty much just came together over time.

I looked it up long ago. What do you mean "came together"? Yes, in the early days certain books were more popular than others but there was no definitive selection. Various churches used some others didn't. To make it official, the council was called and it was finalized, by vote at Trent. Protestants then had their say, mostly the same but threw out some books. Not exactly divine.

 

[Iceweasel]

A person who's been awakened by the Holy Spirit will NEVER convince folks who haven't been. So the debate rages on! Either a person knows or they don't. Fighting over the various Catholic Councils and Papal Bulls is a meaningless waste of time.

I was a Christian for 22 years and studied quite a bit. I know the routine probably better than you, spiritually blind, unsaved, etc. The facts are that the Bible was assembled by vote and consensus, based on stories cobbled together from various sources to establish a state religion for a sun worshipping emperor. One can pretend anything with a religion, it needs no facts.

The Word of God always win.

Wins what? Whatever you want it to win, right? I got tired of the meaningless spiritual rhetoric. It's what's wrong with the world, all these people believing whatever they want no matter what the reality of the matter is.

 

[Iceweasel]

Just as an afterthought Iceweasel it's still not settled. Catholics use one version of the Bible, Protestants use another, some Eastern Orthodox churches use a completely different one. It still isn't settled

I think that's technically true but if you buy a Bible in the NIV, KJV, NKJV, NASB, etc. all the major translations they will be the same books, Catholics a bit different with Macabees (I think). Eastern Orthodox, I don't know.

 

[hortysir]

Not a myth: Anti religion nutbars love posting jibberish in religious threads

 

[Iceweasel]

Not a myth: Anti religion nutbars love posting jibberish in religious threads

And we're supposed to not recognize what gibberish that is?

 

[BluePhantom]

A person who's been awakened by the Holy Spirit will NEVER convince folks who haven't been. So the debate rages on! Either a person knows or they don't. Fighting over the various Catholic Councils and Papal Bulls is a meaningless waste of time.

I was a Christian for 22 years and studied quite a bit. I know the routine probably better than you, spiritually blind, unsaved, etc. The facts are that the Bible was assembled by vote and consensus, based on stories cobbled together from various sources to establish a state religion for a sun worshipping emperor. One can pretend anything with a religion, it needs no facts.

The Bible was put together by vote? When was this? I have studied religion and the history of Christianity for 35 years and this is the first I have heard of a vote on what the Biblical cannon would be. You might want to look that one up. It pretty much just came together over time.

I looked it up long ago. What do you mean "came together"? Yes, in the early days certain books were more popular than others but there was no definitive selection. Various churches used some others didn't. To make it official, the council was called and it was finalized, by vote at Trent. Protestants then had their say, mostly the same but threw out some books. Not exactly divine.

Oh ok we are talking about two totally different time frames. You are referring to the 16th century where I am thinking more like the 4th or 5th century. Yeah that makes sense now.

 

[BluePhantom]

Not a myth: Anti religion nutbars love posting jibberish in religious threads

Well to be fair I know a lot of religious nutbars who love to post gibberish on religion threads too.

 

[irosie91]

Apparently there are a few variants, such as JHVH, or YHVH. Supposedly the true pronunciation was lost ages ago. Most Hebrew scholars pronounce YHWH as "Yahweh".

Alas I am no Rabbi nor was I brought up in Judaism, lol. But I am fascinated with all religion, and YHWH is the word I use to refer to the highest and greatest God whom those of the Abrahamic religions all worship.

​

You are slowly becoming hauntingly relevant. And frankly, that spooks me.

most Hebrew scholars do not pronounce Yud hey vav hey---
at all.

 

[RandomVariable]

Apparently there are a few variants, such as JHVH, or YHVH. Supposedly the true pronunciation was lost ages ago. Most Hebrew scholars pronounce YHWH as "Yahweh".

Alas I am no Rabbi nor was I brought up in Judaism, lol. But I am fascinated with all religion, and YHWH is the word I use to refer to the highest and greatest God whom those of the Abrahamic religions all worship.

​

You are slowly becoming hauntingly relevant. And frankly, that spooks me.

most Hebrew scholars do not pronounce Yud hey vav hey---
at all.

May I?

 

[irosie91]

This is my understanding of the term/name YWHW from what I have heard. I do not know Hebrew so I am only repeating things I have heard. In the Bible when Moses as God who he should say sent him what is written down is:

(may not be the correct original language.)

This is not actually a word and does not really have a pronunciation. It has been interpreted as the name of God although that may be completely inaccurate. It is written in the KJV Bible as I AM THAT I AM. Written in Hebrew I think it looks like two doors with a post in the middle and a little marker at the top corner of the right door. In other words, make a choice, either one, but it had better be this one.

Well kind of yes and kind of no. YHWH is how it is written in Hebrew. It's not a word no much as an anagram. In Exodus 3 God tells Moses to go to Pharaoh and demand the release of the Hebrews. Moses asks who he should say is commanding this and by who's authority he makes this command...which in a polytheistic society is a pretty good idea. Is it Marduk making this command? Osiris? Elohim? You know...what god are we talking about here? God answers "I am who I am"...it also means "I will be who I will be" and it could also mean "I blow (or will blow) what I blow (or will blow)". This is because the Hebrew words for "to be" and "blow" are the same and because Hebrew does not distinguish between present and future tenses, but it seems unlikely that God would identify himself as "he who blows" (although there is some association with winds in Genesis but that's a whole other discussion), so it's probably "I am who I am".

Ancient Hebrew is a bit tough for westerners to read because it is written from right to left instead of left to right and there are no spaces, no vowels, no punctuation, no paragraphs. It's just one long string of letters. Consider if we ran across DRP in a string of letters. Well we would have to reverse that to PRD which could mean prod, poured, pride, proud, paired...the list goes on. It can be really confusing and still today scholars find things that are commonly translated in the Bible as one thing and through modern scholarship realize that it means something else entirely.

As an interesting side note, there are some great early Greek manuscripts that misunderstood the Hebrew. Greek is read from left to right as English is and when they saw YHWH they noted that it kind of sort of looks like pi-iota-i-iota which spells PiPi (pronounced "pee-pee") which means "chicken" in ancient Egyptian and so those ancient Greeks concluded that the Hebrews were worshiping a chicken god named PiPi.

To further confuse things, the name of God was so powerful that it was not to be spoken by penalty of death and so the ancient Hebrew priests referred to God as "Adonai" (pronounced "A-doh-ni" [A as in cat as the stressed syllable and a long i at the end as in night]. It gets a little complicated because you have to now translate everything into German but when you do that and use the YHWH as it is written, and the vowels from Adonai as it was spoken, put them all together and say it in German, you get "Jehovah". Even Adonai was sometimes considered too powerful and instead God was simply referred to as "ha-Shem" or "the name".

And to confuse things even more, the name of God was also knows as Elohim in different sources and those sources were spliced together which is why in the pentateuch it sometimes refers to God as Elohim and sometimes as YHWH.

So there you go. Hope that adds clarity instead of confusion. LOL

there are tenses in Hebrew-----past present---something like subjunctive---etc. yhvh---- is something like a declension
of the verb "to be" sorta

 

[BluePhantom]

This is my understanding of the term/name YWHW from what I have heard. I do not know Hebrew so I am only repeating things I have heard. In the Bible when Moses as God who he should say sent him what is written down is:

(may not be the correct original language.)

This is not actually a word and does not really have a pronunciation. It has been interpreted as the name of God although that may be completely inaccurate. It is written in the KJV Bible as I AM THAT I AM. Written in Hebrew I think it looks like two doors with a post in the middle and a little marker at the top corner of the right door. In other words, make a choice, either one, but it had better be this one.

Well kind of yes and kind of no. YHWH is how it is written in Hebrew. It's not a word no much as an anagram. In Exodus 3 God tells Moses to go to Pharaoh and demand the release of the Hebrews. Moses asks who he should say is commanding this and by who's authority he makes this command...which in a polytheistic society is a pretty good idea. Is it Marduk making this command? Osiris? Elohim? You know...what god are we talking about here? God answers "I am who I am"...it also means "I will be who I will be" and it could also mean "I blow (or will blow) what I blow (or will blow)". This is because the Hebrew words for "to be" and "blow" are the same and because Hebrew does not distinguish between present and future tenses, but it seems unlikely that God would identify himself as "he who blows" (although there is some association with winds in Genesis but that's a whole other discussion), so it's probably "I am who I am".

Ancient Hebrew is a bit tough for westerners to read because it is written from right to left instead of left to right and there are no spaces, no vowels, no punctuation, no paragraphs. It's just one long string of letters. Consider if we ran across DRP in a string of letters. Well we would have to reverse that to PRD which could mean prod, poured, pride, proud, paired...the list goes on. It can be really confusing and still today scholars find things that are commonly translated in the Bible as one thing and through modern scholarship realize that it means something else entirely.

As an interesting side note, there are some great early Greek manuscripts that misunderstood the Hebrew. Greek is read from left to right as English is and when they saw YHWH they noted that it kind of sort of looks like pi-iota-i-iota which spells PiPi (pronounced "pee-pee") which means "chicken" in ancient Egyptian and so those ancient Greeks concluded that the Hebrews were worshiping a chicken god named PiPi.

To further confuse things, the name of God was so powerful that it was not to be spoken by penalty of death and so the ancient Hebrew priests referred to God as "Adonai" (pronounced "A-doh-ni" [A as in cat as the stressed syllable and a long i at the end as in night]. It gets a little complicated because you have to now translate everything into German but when you do that and use the YHWH as it is written, and the vowels from Adonai as it was spoken, put them all together and say it in German, you get "Jehovah". Even Adonai was sometimes considered too powerful and instead God was simply referred to as "ha-Shem" or "the name".

And to confuse things even more, the name of God was also knows as Elohim in different sources and those sources were spliced together which is why in the pentateuch it sometimes refers to God as Elohim and sometimes as YHWH.

So there you go. Hope that adds clarity instead of confusion. LOL

there are tenses in Hebrew-----past present---something like subjunctive---etc. yhvh---- is something like a declension
of the verb "to be" sorta

Ancient Hebrew distinguishes between past events and current events but does not distinguish between current events and future events. They used past tense, but did not distinguish between future and present tense. Something was either done or it wasn't. So in ancient Hebrew if the wife asked whether you had taken out the trash while you were in the process of doing it, the answer would be "no" because it had not been accomplished. Modern Hebrew may be different

 

[hortysir]

Not a myth: Anti religion nutbars love posting jibberish in religious threads

Well to be fair I know a lot of religious nutbars who love to post gibberish on religion threads too.

True enough but at least they claim to be believers.
Can't say I've ever seen someone totally apolitical posting in politics.

 

[BluePhantom]

Not a myth: Anti religion nutbars love posting jibberish in religious threads

Well to be fair I know a lot of religious nutbars who love to post gibberish on religion threads too.

True enough but at least they claim to be believers.
Can't say I've ever seen someone totally apolitical posting in politics.

A fair point. Perhaps the explanation is that atheism is in a sense a religion of it's own. I have no way to justify that statement. It just popped into my head.