Evangelicals and Trump

[Tom Paine 1949]

When was the nation “founded”? Who “founded” it? Clearly the idea refers to the “Founding Fathers” in the period from say 1776 to 1789. We refer to our nation’s “founding documents.” Some liberals mistakenly want to push the nation‘s founding back to 1619. Others to the Puritan’s arrival. This is nonsense. The revolutionary political separation from Britain, the defeat and exile of British aristocrats and monarchy with its tradition of granting privileges to a national Church, the establishment of a Constitution ... all were great achievement’s of this “founding” period.

This was in many ways an “enlightened” and radical period in U.S. history, when even great slave-owners embraced ideas their class would later reject as nonsense. The most popular book of the times was Paine’s “Common Sense” and the frontier spirit and religious non-conformism was the norm.

But even the Enlightenment had deep roots in Protestant non-conformist and earlier Christian “humanist” ideas. Politically speaking the leaders of this “new nation” —insofar as there was a nation at all — looked to examples of the Roman Republic and not the Christianized Roman Empire or Calvinism or the ancient Hebrew Monarchy or rule of rabbis and prophets. Thank heaven!

The worst of the “founded as a Christian nation” Evangelicals, and many of their apologists here, would probably like to “re-found” our nation as one which upholds Christian religion and beliefs, or places it on a pedestal, in a special position, based on some essentialist view of our nation’s historical character. I think this can only profoundly harm Christianity as well as founder (= “sink like a stone”) our Republic.

Our Republic already faces great economic and social challenges that have nothing to do with organized religion, and everything to do with the working out of modern capitalism, imperialism, nationalism, and state capitalist conflicts. We also have racial and social conflicts and insane party partisanship.

Do we all reject any altering of our nation’s “founding” documents regarding Church and State? I hope so. Superstitious religious views of any kind are bad, but injecting them into politics today is especially dangerous. They need to be kept from polluting our republic and dividing our people further.

No one in this thread is advocating any sort of "re-founding", so that is just your Fear of the Other talking.

I certainly hope that is true! But of course the Constitution is indeed a “living document” — at least in so far as it can be amended — and there have been repeated (failed) attempts to pass “Christian Amendments.” At certain times these have even had some “progressive” support, as after the Civil War.

See: Christian amendment - Wikipedia.

Of course after WWII during the fight against “godless communism” and then again in the late 1970s, with the birth of the “Moral Majority” and the “Christian Right,” we have seen other attempts to put a Christian “stamp” on our nation in the mold of some European countries. In the U.S. this rarely has succeeded much beyond adding “In God We Trust” to our currency and the Pledge of Allegiance.

Nevertheless our country now has an evangelical “Christian Zionist” as Vice-President and another as Secretary of Defense. The present highly politicized Evangelical / Christian Right has embraced the very un-“silent” and a-“moral” Donald Trump. It has had a powerful impact on U.S. politics. Among other things, I would argue it has led to a dramatic aggravation of partisan differences, which has reached Q-Anon levels of unreality.

Language about abortion being equal to “baby-killing” & “genocide,” and zeal about fighting “Satan,” has passed over to demonizing Democrats, Liberals & Progressives as a whole. There is even a “Messianic” belief in the crude nationalist demagogue Trump in many of his white Evangelical followers. We shall have to wait and see if the President being “struck down” and “punished” by the devilish Covid-19 pandemic has any effect on his evangelical supporters ... greater than the less-than-divine arguments of his ordinary opponents.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

P.S. Here is an example of the demonization that goes on in the minds of (how many millions of?) mad ultra-politicized Christian Rightists: The Case For Mass Demonic Possession

Whatever one thinks about Conservative Democrats, Liberals, Progressives, Democratic Socialists, BLM, Antifa, Unions, Wall Street, crime in the streets, Covid-19, international politics ... is this not just mad obsessional thinking?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#793 reply to #700

No one in this thread is advocating any sort of "re-founding", so that is just your Fear of the Other talking.

You aid and abet the white evangelical right who do every time you spew their propaganda lie that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

 

[BreezeWood]

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

#453 ding ding ding

I don't know for certain but I have a few ideas; insecurity of his own beliefs, subordination of Christianity for social and political purposes, rival religion to atheism, etc.

It's all spelled out in my signature.

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

..

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.


As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.


You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.

As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.

You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.
no one needs to find a reason to invalidate trump - their first act nullifying the climate accord alone is reason enough despite your evangelical applause. cry a river correll
.
something wrong with your keeping yourself in your church, christian.
.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

as has been mentioned, you'll need to amend the constitution correll to legitimately put yourself back in public education it simply is you who does not abide by established law.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#705 reply to #80

No one finds it odd that black churches supported Bill Clinton.

That’s so weak you should be ashamed of yourself. Black churches don’t spread falsehoods and propaganda amid the constant nagging that America was founded as a Christian Nation the way that white Christian evangelical churches do.

 

[ding]

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

#453 ding ding ding

I don't know for certain but I have a few ideas; insecurity of his own beliefs, subordination of Christianity for social and political purposes, rival religion to atheism, etc.

It's all spelled out in my signature.

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

The Socialist Phenomenon

 

[ding]

#671 reply to #667 #670
America was not founded to be a Christian only nation by any organized religion in particular, because America was founded as a secular nation tolerant of religious beliefs within the bounds of established law and as expressed in the Constitution.

The above is an absolutely true “joined by me” statement from PoliticalChic and BreezeWood.

I wonder if the self anointed winners ding and Correll can deny the truth of that statement.

Perhaps they can see the absurdity of stating that America was not founded to be a Christian only nation and then from the other side of the mouth turn it around and say that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

#667

America was not founded to be a Christian only nation.
It was never meant to be a theocracy.

But it was founded by orthodox Christians, based on the Judeo-Christian Bible...

#670

by any organized religion in particular.

the country is founded as a secular nation tolerant of religious beliefs within the bounds of established law by the written document irregardless of any sentiments otherwise considered at the time of its ratification.

“America was not founded to be a Christian only nation because it was founded as a Christian nation.” A.B.Surd

I'm not doing anything until you acknowledge and stop misstating what I have written. It would be illogical to do otherwise.

.

I'm not doing anything until you acknowledge and stop misstating what I have written. It would be illogical to do otherwise.

.
so says the loser without stating what their position is for clarity ....
.

That is a completely different topic.

.
what is your topic specifically correll.

My position was stated clearly multiple times by me.

Lets see how you like it.... you support black men raping white women. Do you want to argue against it? Or would it be illogical for you to continue conversations with me if I just keep making shit up about you?

.

My position was stated clearly multiple times by me.

Lets see how you like it.... you support black men raping white women. Do you want to argue against it? Or would it be illogical for you to continue conversations with me if I just keep making shit up about you?

But let's clear this up. What did I tell you a Christian nation means to mean, dummy? Because that's what you keep misstating.

.
means to mean - is your subjective manner to never be found erroneous (to be lying) - liar. and makes no sense when the subject matter being discussed is not your interpretation but the factual data in support of the historically recorded underpinnings for a documents ratification.

- your example is correll in a nutshell.

I'm just showing you what it's like to deal with socialists who misstate everything intentionally because they can't make an honest argument.

Socialists really are evil and should darwinize themselves off the face of the planet as soon as practically possible.

 

[ding]

When was the nation “founded”? Who “founded” it? Clearly the idea refers to the “Founding Fathers” in the period from say 1776 to 1789. We refer to our nation’s “founding documents.” Some liberals mistakenly want to push the nation‘s founding back to 1619. Others to the Puritan’s arrival. This is nonsense. The revolutionary political separation from Britain, the defeat and exile of British aristocrats and monarchy with its tradition of granting privileges to a national Church, the establishment of a Constitution ... all were great achievements of this “founding” period.

This was in many ways an “enlightened” and radical period in U.S. history, when even great slave-owners embraced ideas their class would later reject as nonsense. The most popular book of the times was Paine’s “Common Sense” and the frontier spirit and religious non-conformism was the norm.

But even the Enlightenment had deep roots in Protestant non-conformist and earlier Christian “humanist” ideas. Politically speaking the leaders of this “new nation” —insofar as there was a nation at all — looked to examples of the Roman Republic and not the Christianized Roman Empire or Calvinism or the ancient Hebrew Monarchy or rule of rabbis and prophets. Thank heaven!

The worst of the “founded as a Christian nation” Evangelicals, and many of their apologists here, would probably like to “re-found” our nation as one which upholds Christian religion and beliefs, or places it on a pedestal, in a special position, based on some essentialist view of our nation’s historical character. I think this can only profoundly harm Christianity as well as founder (= “sink like a stone”) our Republic.

Our Republic already faces great economic and social challenges that have nothing to do with organized religion, and everything to do with the working out of modern capitalism, imperialism, nationalism, and state capitalist conflicts. We also have racial and social conflicts and insane party partisanship.

Do we all reject any altering of our nation’s “founding” documents regarding Church and State? I hope so. Superstitious religious views of any kind are bad, but injecting them into politics today is especially dangerous. They need to be kept from polluting our republic and dividing our people further.

I think you have it backwards.

 

[Correll]

When was the nation “founded”? Who “founded” it? Clearly the idea refers to the “Founding Fathers” in the period from say 1776 to 1789. We refer to our nation’s “founding documents.” Some liberals mistakenly want to push the nation‘s founding back to 1619. Others to the Puritan’s arrival. This is nonsense. The revolutionary political separation from Britain, the defeat and exile of British aristocrats and monarchy with its tradition of granting privileges to a national Church, the establishment of a Constitution ... all were great achievement’s of this “founding” period.

This was in many ways an “enlightened” and radical period in U.S. history, when even great slave-owners embraced ideas their class would later reject as nonsense. The most popular book of the times was Paine’s “Common Sense” and the frontier spirit and religious non-conformism was the norm.

But even the Enlightenment had deep roots in Protestant non-conformist and earlier Christian “humanist” ideas. Politically speaking the leaders of this “new nation” —insofar as there was a nation at all — looked to examples of the Roman Republic and not the Christianized Roman Empire or Calvinism or the ancient Hebrew Monarchy or rule of rabbis and prophets. Thank heaven!

The worst of the “founded as a Christian nation” Evangelicals, and many of their apologists here, would probably like to “re-found” our nation as one which upholds Christian religion and beliefs, or places it on a pedestal, in a special position, based on some essentialist view of our nation’s historical character. I think this can only profoundly harm Christianity as well as founder (= “sink like a stone”) our Republic.

Our Republic already faces great economic and social challenges that have nothing to do with organized religion, and everything to do with the working out of modern capitalism, imperialism, nationalism, and state capitalist conflicts. We also have racial and social conflicts and insane party partisanship.

Do we all reject any altering of our nation’s “founding” documents regarding Church and State? I hope so. Superstitious religious views of any kind are bad, but injecting them into politics today is especially dangerous. They need to be kept from polluting our republic and dividing our people further.

No one in this thread is advocating any sort of "re-founding", so that is just your Fear of the Other talking.

I certainly hope that is true! But of course the Constitution is indeed a “living document” — at least in so far as it can be amended — and there have been repeated (failed) attempts to pass “Christian Amendments.” At certain times these have even had some “progressive” support, as after the Civil War.

See: Christian amendment - Wikipedia.

Of course after WWII during the fight against “godless communism” and then again in the late 1970s, with the birth of the “Moral Majority” and the “Christian Right,” we have seen other attempts to put a Christian “stamp” on our nation in the mold of some European countries. In the U.S. this rarely has succeeded much beyond adding “In God We Trust” to our currency and the Pledge of Allegiance.

Nevertheless our country now has an evangelical “Christian Zionist” as Vice-President and another as Secretary of Defense. The present highly politicized Evangelical / Christian Right has embraced the very un-“silent” and a-“moral” Donald Trump. It has had a powerful impact on U.S. politics. Among other things, I would argue it has led to a dramatic aggravation of partisan differences, which has reached Q-Anon levels of unreality.

Language about abortion being equal to “baby-killing” & “genocide,” and zeal about fighting “Satan,” has passed over to demonizing Democrats, Liberals & Progressives as a whole. There is even a “Messianic” belief in the crude nationalist demagogue Trump in many of his white Evangelical followers. We shall have to wait and see if the President being “struck down” and “punished” by the devilish Covid-19 pandemic has any effect on his evangelical supporters ... greater than the less-than-divine arguments of his ordinary opponents.

So, you claim "Christian amendments, admitting that have all failed, and immediately move on to vague hints that the VP is a danger somehow.


What failed amendment do you think most strongly makes the case that there is a real threat of a "refounding" as a Christian Theocracy or something?


(i want to avoid the gish gallop aspects a claimed list linked to, but never presented or discussed. I know that was not your intent)

Because like I said, I'm not seeing anyone here pushing that. So give me your best real life example to support your fears.

 

[Correll]

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

#453 ding ding ding

I don't know for certain but I have a few ideas; insecurity of his own beliefs, subordination of Christianity for social and political purposes, rival religion to atheism, etc.

It's all spelled out in my signature.

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

..

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.


As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.


You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.

As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.

You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.
no one needs to find a reason to invalidate trump - their first act nullifying the climate accord alone is reason enough despite your evangelical applause. cry a river correll
.
something wrong with your keeping yourself in your church, christian.
.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

as has been mentioned, you'll need to amend the constitution correll to legitimately put yourself back in public education it simply is you who does not abide by established law.

Yes, there is something wrong with "keeping me in my church'.

I have the God Given Human RIGHT to come into the Public Square and the RIght to Speak, and the RIght to Assemble and Organize politically and the Right to vote for Candidates that are willing to represent my interests.


That is what is wrong with it. And that is way you are a want a be tyrant.

 

[Correll]

#705 reply to #80

No one finds it odd that black churches supported Bill Clinton.

That’s so weak you should be ashamed of yourself. Black churches don’t spread falsehoods and propaganda amid the constant nagging that America was founded as a Christian Nation the way that white Christian evangelical churches do.

Black Churches supported a man that was quite immoral.


That is the crux of your complaint about Evangelicals supporting Trump.

That you find their behavior better than White Evangelicals, is a. irrelevant, and b. likely a result of ingroup bias on your part.


My point stands.

Black Churches and other left leaning churches supported Bill Clinton, and you people saw nothing wrong with that,


You only see a problem when the support is going to a candidate that you oppose.

 

[BreezeWood]

#671 reply to #667 #670
America was not founded to be a Christian only nation by any organized religion in particular, because America was founded as a secular nation tolerant of religious beliefs within the bounds of established law and as expressed in the Constitution.

The above is an absolutely true “joined by me” statement from PoliticalChic and BreezeWood.

I wonder if the self anointed winners ding and Correll can deny the truth of that statement.

Perhaps they can see the absurdity of stating that America was not founded to be a Christian only nation and then from the other side of the mouth turn it around and say that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

#667

America was not founded to be a Christian only nation.
It was never meant to be a theocracy.

But it was founded by orthodox Christians, based on the Judeo-Christian Bible...

#670

by any organized religion in particular.

the country is founded as a secular nation tolerant of religious beliefs within the bounds of established law by the written document irregardless of any sentiments otherwise considered at the time of its ratification.

“America was not founded to be a Christian only nation because it was founded as a Christian nation.” A.B.Surd

I'm not doing anything until you acknowledge and stop misstating what I have written. It would be illogical to do otherwise.

.

I'm not doing anything until you acknowledge and stop misstating what I have written. It would be illogical to do otherwise.

.
so says the loser without stating what their position is for clarity ....
.

That is a completely different topic.

.
what is your topic specifically correll.

My position was stated clearly multiple times by me.

Lets see how you like it.... you support black men raping white women. Do you want to argue against it? Or would it be illogical for you to continue conversations with me if I just keep making shit up about you?

.

My position was stated clearly multiple times by me.

Lets see how you like it.... you support black men raping white women. Do you want to argue against it? Or would it be illogical for you to continue conversations with me if I just keep making shit up about you?

But let's clear this up. What did I tell you a Christian nation means to mean, dummy? Because that's what you keep misstating.

.
means to mean - is your subjective manner to never be found erroneous (to be lying) - liar. and makes no sense when the subject matter being discussed is not your interpretation but the factual data in support of the historically recorded underpinnings for a documents ratification.

- your example is correll in a nutshell.

I'm just showing you what it's like to deal with socialists who misstate everything intentionally because they can't make an honest argument.

Socialists really are evil and should darwinize themselves off the face of the planet as soon as practically possible.

.

- and makes no sense when the subject matter being discussed is not your interpretation but the factual data in support of the historically recorded underpinnings for a documents ratification.

I'm just showing you what it's like to deal with socialists who misstate everything intentionally because they can't make an honest argument.

.
and that's not your tactic everytime you post -

nothing wrong with your opinion that is not true when your tactic is a form of plagiarism to deceitfully propose your opinion as fact to sway your conclusion against others.

the same as the christian bible is construed that allows you the same to reward yourself for the errant message's appeal to you rather than the actual correct interpretation - all of which you are fully aware of that makes your messaging disingenuous to a cause you claim as infallible. christianity. a political document disguised as a religion.

 

[BreezeWood]

#671 reply to #667 #670
America was not founded to be a Christian only nation by any organized religion in particular, because America was founded as a secular nation tolerant of religious beliefs within the bounds of established law and as expressed in the Constitution.

The above is an absolutely true “joined by me” statement from PoliticalChic and BreezeWood.

I wonder if the self anointed winners ding and Correll can deny the truth of that statement.

Perhaps they can see the absurdity of stating that America was not founded to be a Christian only nation and then from the other side of the mouth turn it around and say that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

#667

America was not founded to be a Christian only nation.
It was never meant to be a theocracy.

But it was founded by orthodox Christians, based on the Judeo-Christian Bible...

#670

by any organized religion in particular.

the country is founded as a secular nation tolerant of religious beliefs within the bounds of established law by the written document irregardless of any sentiments otherwise considered at the time of its ratification.

“America was not founded to be a Christian only nation because it was founded as a Christian nation.” A.B.Surd

I'm not doing anything until you acknowledge and stop misstating what I have written. It would be illogical to do otherwise.

.

I'm not doing anything until you acknowledge and stop misstating what I have written. It would be illogical to do otherwise.

.
so says the loser without stating what their position is for clarity ....
.

That is a completely different topic.

.
what is your topic specifically correll.

My position was stated clearly multiple times by me.

Lets see how you like it.... you support black men raping white women. Do you want to argue against it? Or would it be illogical for you to continue conversations with me if I just keep making shit up about you?

.

My position was stated clearly multiple times by me.

Lets see how you like it.... you support black men raping white women. Do you want to argue against it? Or would it be illogical for you to continue conversations with me if I just keep making shit up about you?

But let's clear this up. What did I tell you a Christian nation means to mean, dummy? Because that's what you keep misstating.

.
means to mean - is your subjective manner to never be found erroneous (to be lying) - liar. and makes no sense when the subject matter being discussed is not your interpretation but the factual data in support of the historically recorded underpinnings for a documents ratification.

- your example is correll in a nutshell.

I'm just showing you what it's like to deal with socialists who misstate everything intentionally because they can't make an honest argument.

Socialists really are evil and should darwinize themselves off the face of the planet as soon as practically possible.

.

Socialists really are evil and should darwinize themselves off the face of the planet as soon as practically possible.

.
sorry to break the news to you bing but undoubtedly the 1st century religious itinerant was more than slightly socialistic in their messaging and societal underpinnings.

 

[BreezeWood]

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

#453 ding ding ding

I don't know for certain but I have a few ideas; insecurity of his own beliefs, subordination of Christianity for social and political purposes, rival religion to atheism, etc.

It's all spelled out in my signature.

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

..

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.


As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.


You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.

As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.

You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.
no one needs to find a reason to invalidate trump - their first act nullifying the climate accord alone is reason enough despite your evangelical applause. cry a river correll
.
something wrong with your keeping yourself in your church, christian.
.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

as has been mentioned, you'll need to amend the constitution correll to legitimately put yourself back in public education it simply is you who does not abide by established law.

Yes, there is something wrong with "keeping me in my church'.

I have the God Given Human RIGHT to come into the Public Square and the RIght to Speak, and the RIght to Assemble and Organize politically and the Right to vote for Candidates that are willing to represent my interests.


That is what is wrong with it. And that is way you are a want a be tyrant.

.

That is what is wrong with it. And that is way you are a want a be tyrant.

.
the desert religions, christianity are political organizations disguised as religions -
.

“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (correll) - Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

.
the above forgery is your calling card correll and only highlights you as a fantasist blindly and willingly usurping the rights of others for the purpose of an errant message that empowers your own latent beliefs irregardless of any verifiable evidence of authenticity it relates itself in regards to a historical event that occurred in the 1st century.

 

[Correll]

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

#453 ding ding ding

I don't know for certain but I have a few ideas; insecurity of his own beliefs, subordination of Christianity for social and political purposes, rival religion to atheism, etc.

It's all spelled out in my signature.

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

..

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.


As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.


You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.

As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.

You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.
no one needs to find a reason to invalidate trump - their first act nullifying the climate accord alone is reason enough despite your evangelical applause. cry a river correll
.
something wrong with your keeping yourself in your church, christian.
.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

as has been mentioned, you'll need to amend the constitution correll to legitimately put yourself back in public education it simply is you who does not abide by established law.

Yes, there is something wrong with "keeping me in my church'.

I have the God Given Human RIGHT to come into the Public Square and the RIght to Speak, and the RIght to Assemble and Organize politically and the Right to vote for Candidates that are willing to represent my interests.


That is what is wrong with it. And that is way you are a want a be tyrant.

.

That is what is wrong with it. And that is way you are a want a be tyrant.

.
the desert religions, christianity are political organizations disguised as religions -
.

“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (correll) - Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

.
the above forgery is your calling card correll and only highlights you as a fantasist blindly and willingly usurping the rights of others for the purpose of an errant message that empowers your own latent beliefs irregardless of any verifiable evidence of authenticity it relates itself in regards to a historical event that occurred in the 1st century.

You don't like Christianity and Christians. Which is fine. You are allowed to have a negative opinion of other people or groups.


BUT, that in no way means that those other people or groups, do not have the same right to assembly, speech or the right to vote for politicians to represent their interests.


Your attempt to attack and marginalize a group of people you hate, for exercising the rights to participate in the Political Process,


is you being an Anti-Christian bigot, a want a be tyrant, and makes your complaints about their behavior invalid.


You are the one trying to " usurping the rights of others".

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

What failed amendment do you think most strongly makes the case that there is a real threat of a "refounding" as a Christian Theocracy or something?

Actually I do not believe “there is a real threat of a “‘refounding’ as a Christian Theocracy or something.” Outside of the Middle East, theocracies don’t exist anymore, and even state churches or merely declared state religions have become rarer throughout the world. “Disestablishing” official Churches has been proceeding for centuries now, and I don’t expect to see a reversal of this trend ... short of a nuclear exchange, civil war, ecological or pandemic disaster, or some other profound collapse of modern civilization...

My concerns are mostly about inter-imperialist conflicts and domestic economic contradictions of state capitalism. The growing insecurity in society has led to all sorts of irrational outbursts, witch-hunting and magical thinking, which may grow if conditions worsen. Religious fanaticism and superstition are just parts of all this, but as I tried to indicate they have contributed to a coarsening of political life, a tendency to demonize enemies among MAGA Republicans.

I believe Pompeo and Pence’s belief in Christian Zionism effects their views of Israel and the Middle East in subtle ways, but that would be hard to prove. I fear to speculate on whether their views of “rapture” and “end days” could influence their willingness to risk major war. By the way, I think that even the anti-religious “left” is infected with magical thinking ... as if getting rid of Trump or Christian fundamentalism would by itself solve our system’s basic contradictions.

But all this is a bit too general. I don’t want to get into criticisms of obnoxious atheists, of which there are also quite a few here.

I am personally against all kinds of “organized insanity,” including religious superstition. I am against mixing organized religion with state institutions. I am for everyone’s right to believe what they wish. I am not for chasing “god” or “gods” out of the public square.

Different cultures need to address these questions sensibly and in their own ways. To me, a great strength of our own society is precisely that from its foundation, though with some difficulty, it has evolved to the point where it welcomes all religions and no religion equally, privileging none, and thus allows for a more creative culture — so that our society can potentially be a model and microcosm appealing to the whole world.

 

[Correll]

What failed amendment do you think most strongly makes the case that there is a real threat of a "refounding" as a Christian Theocracy or something?

Actually I do not believe “there is a real threat of a “‘refounding’ as a Christian Theocracy or something.” Outside of the Middle East, theocracies don’t exist anymore, and even state churches or merely declared state religions have become rarer throughout the world. “Disestablishing” official Churches has been proceeding for centuries now, and I don’t expect to see a reversal of this trend ... short of a nuclear exchange, civil war, ecological or pandemic disaster, or some other profound collapse of modern civilization...

My concerns are mostly about inter-imperialist conflicts and domestic economic contradictions of state capitalism. The growing insecurity in society has led to all sorts of irrational outbursts, witch-hunting and magical thinking, which may grow if conditions worsen. Religious fanaticism and superstition are just parts of all this, but as I tried to indicate they have contributed to a coarsening of political life, a tendency to demonize enemies among MAGA Republicans.

I believe Pompeo and Pence’s belief in Christian Zionism effects their views of Israel and the Middle East in subtle ways, but that would be hard to prove. I fear to speculate on whether their views of “rapture” and “end days” could influence their willingness to risk major war. By the way, I think that even the anti-religious “left” is infected with magical thinking ... as if getting rid of Trump or Christian fundamentalism would by itself solve our system’s basic contradictions.

But all this is a bit too general. I don’t want to get into criticisms of obnoxious atheists, of which there are also quite a few here.

I am personally against all kinds of “organized insanity,” including religious superstition. I am against mixing organized religion with state institutions. I am for everyone’s right to believe what they wish. I am not for chasing “god” or “gods” out of the public square.

Different cultures need to address these questions sensibly and in their own ways. To me, a great strength of our own society is precisely that from its foundation, though with some difficulty, it has evolved to the point where it welcomes all religions and no religion equally, privileging none, and thus allows for a more creative culture — so that our society can potentially be a model and microcosm appealing to the whole world.

If you are not for driving religious people or groups out of the public square, on the topic of the thread, ie Evangelical support for TRump,


you see no problem with it, I take it then? You are in agreement with me that it is normal political activity and completely within their rights and not untoward at all?

 

[ding]

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

#453 ding ding ding

I don't know for certain but I have a few ideas; insecurity of his own beliefs, subordination of Christianity for social and political purposes, rival religion to atheism, etc.

It's all spelled out in my signature.

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

#692 Commentary

How do we confront fabrications of reality such as this found in #453...... we first must see that this is how and why the White Evangelical Christian Army justifies itself marching behind an amoral heathen like Trump Instead of Jesus on the public square.

..

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.


As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.


You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.

And that is what this is all about. You liberals need to find a reason to invalidate Evangelical support of President Trump.

As part of your desire to drive Christianity and Christians from the Public Square.

You wish to deny them their Civil Right to engage in the political process.

.
no one needs to find a reason to invalidate trump - their first act nullifying the climate accord alone is reason enough despite your evangelical applause. cry a river correll
.
something wrong with your keeping yourself in your church, christian.
.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

as has been mentioned, you'll need to amend the constitution correll to legitimately put yourself back in public education it simply is you who does not abide by established law.

Yes, there is something wrong with "keeping me in my church'.

I have the God Given Human RIGHT to come into the Public Square and the RIght to Speak, and the RIght to Assemble and Organize politically and the Right to vote for Candidates that are willing to represent my interests.


That is what is wrong with it. And that is way you are a want a be tyrant.

That's what they really want. That's what they have always wanted.

 

[ding]

#671 reply to #667 #670
America was not founded to be a Christian only nation by any organized religion in particular, because America was founded as a secular nation tolerant of religious beliefs within the bounds of established law and as expressed in the Constitution.

The above is an absolutely true “joined by me” statement from PoliticalChic and BreezeWood.

I wonder if the self anointed winners ding and Correll can deny the truth of that statement.

Perhaps they can see the absurdity of stating that America was not founded to be a Christian only nation and then from the other side of the mouth turn it around and say that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

#667

America was not founded to be a Christian only nation.
It was never meant to be a theocracy.

But it was founded by orthodox Christians, based on the Judeo-Christian Bible...

#670

by any organized religion in particular.

the country is founded as a secular nation tolerant of religious beliefs within the bounds of established law by the written document irregardless of any sentiments otherwise considered at the time of its ratification.

“America was not founded to be a Christian only nation because it was founded as a Christian nation.” A.B.Surd

I'm not doing anything until you acknowledge and stop misstating what I have written. It would be illogical to do otherwise.

.

I'm not doing anything until you acknowledge and stop misstating what I have written. It would be illogical to do otherwise.

.
so says the loser without stating what their position is for clarity ....
.

That is a completely different topic.

.
what is your topic specifically correll.

My position was stated clearly multiple times by me.

Lets see how you like it.... you support black men raping white women. Do you want to argue against it? Or would it be illogical for you to continue conversations with me if I just keep making shit up about you?

.

My position was stated clearly multiple times by me.

Lets see how you like it.... you support black men raping white women. Do you want to argue against it? Or would it be illogical for you to continue conversations with me if I just keep making shit up about you?

But let's clear this up. What did I tell you a Christian nation means to mean, dummy? Because that's what you keep misstating.

.
means to mean - is your subjective manner to never be found erroneous (to be lying) - liar. and makes no sense when the subject matter being discussed is not your interpretation but the factual data in support of the historically recorded underpinnings for a documents ratification.

- your example is correll in a nutshell.

I'm just showing you what it's like to deal with socialists who misstate everything intentionally because they can't make an honest argument.

Socialists really are evil and should darwinize themselves off the face of the planet as soon as practically possible.

.

- and makes no sense when the subject matter being discussed is not your interpretation but the factual data in support of the historically recorded underpinnings for a documents ratification.

I'm just showing you what it's like to deal with socialists who misstate everything intentionally because they can't make an honest argument.

.
and that's not your tactic everytime you post -

nothing wrong with your opinion that is not true when your tactic is a form of plagiarism to deceitfully propose your opinion as fact to sway your conclusion against others.

the same as the christian bible is construed that allows you the same to reward yourself for the errant message's appeal to you rather than the actual correct interpretation - all of which you are fully aware of that makes your messaging disingenuous to a cause you claim as infallible. christianity. a political document disguised as a religion.

My tactic is to oppose people like you and W and Payne who want to subordinate religion.

Christianity is the spoken religion of antiquity and required for admittance into the everlasting.

Abandon your religion of lies and forgeries and accept Christ.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Well, I never consider people who slander me or Liberals or Democrats as “Satanic” exactly “normal.” I have faced more than my fair share of such attacks over the years. I see many problems in supporting Trump ... period. I see particular hypocrisy in “Moral Majority” types supporting the utterly amoral Trump. Within their rights? Of course!

But I warn fanatically partisan evangelicals and other Christians who try to organize out of their Churches for Trump that many in our nation are becoming less tolerant of such activity, already in many cases technically illegal. There is no Constitutional right, merely traditional acceptance, for granting Churches special tax benefits. Churches were historically granted such benefits because they were long seen as providing socially important benefits to their communities. If they ever become seen as little more than political organizing centers for political campaigns, local pastors and mega church leaders alike may find their special tax benefits under assault. This is just one more reason I say many evangelicals of the “Christian Right” are hurting not just the reputation of Christianity but its future place in American society.