Expanded background checks fails in Senate

[Mustang]

1. It's a crime to sell a firearm to someone who isn't allowed to have one
2. Most private sales are made between friends you already know their back ground and no need for a piece of paper from the government.

And how do you know that exactly? Frankly, I doubt that's true. In MY city, there are gun 'shows' several times a year. They are heavily advertised, and they are jam packed with private sellers who don't know anyone there.

We know this because according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, only .7% of convicts bought their firearms at gun shows.

Further, according to the BATF, most crime guns are either bought off the street from illegal sources through family members or friends...neither of which would be effected in any way by another law requiring a background check.

So...that's how we know.

Link?

 

[eflatminor]

Perhaps Congress can add a bottle cap ban amendment to the bill to outlaw pressure cookers!

not all bottle caps only the large high capacity bottle caps

Or the ones that look "scary"...that'll flummox the bad guys!

 

[Vast LWC]

I would agree with you, but you're wrong.

Really?

Please feel free to provide an example of a gun shop that was forced to sell a weapon to a convicted criminal during F&F.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So a private seller who is not currently required to do a background check is not a loophole where a felon could buy a weapon? lolol

1. It's a crime to sell a firearm to someone who isn't allowed to have one
2. Most private sales are made between friends you already know their back ground and no need for a piece of paper from the government.

And how do you know that exactly? Frankly, I doubt that's true. In MY city, there are gun 'shows' several times a year. They are heavily advertised, and they are jam packed with private sellers who don't know anyone there.

My statement is more correct than that 40% bull shit I don't hear you bitching about that.
Again I'll stick with what I said because for one it's true and another it's illegal to sale a gun to a criminal most people are not going to take a chance on going to jail for 10 years
and lastly I go to more gun shows than you I know all about those 100's of people you say are selling a gun it's bull shit.

 

[eflatminor]

And how do you know that exactly? Frankly, I doubt that's true. In MY city, there are gun 'shows' several times a year. They are heavily advertised, and they are jam packed with private sellers who don't know anyone there.

We know this because according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, only .7% of convicts bought their firearms at gun shows.

Further, according to the BATF, most crime guns are either bought off the street from illegal sources through family members or friends...neither of which would be effected in any way by another law requiring a background check.

So...that's how we know.

Link?

Library, where you'll find Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, February 2002 and other BATF stats. Enjoy.

 

[Spoonman]

Senate rejects expanded gun background checks - CNN.com

I see sanity finally prevailed

 

[OKTexas]

National Crime Information Center (NCIC) - FBI Information Systems

That data base is only available to law enforcement. NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) is the one available to FFL dealers. Keep digging.

I knew I'd heard the acronym before, was my point, sfb

Dry it up

How would they say it in court, it goes to the credibility of the witness, you want to join a debate ya need to have the duckies in a row.

 

[Mustang]

1. It's a crime to sell a firearm to someone who isn't allowed to have one
2. Most private sales are made between friends you already know their back ground and no need for a piece of paper from the government.

And how do you know that exactly? Frankly, I doubt that's true. In MY city, there are gun 'shows' several times a year. They are heavily advertised, and they are jam packed with private sellers who don't know anyone there.

My statement is more correct than that 40% bull shit I don't hear you bitching about that.
Again I'll stick with what I said because for one it's true and another it's illegal to sale a gun to a criminal most people are not going to take a chance on going to jail for 10 years
and lastly I go to more gun shows than you I know all about those 100's of people you say are selling a gun it's bull shit.

Regale me with a case of a private seller who unknowingly sold a gun to a person who could not pass a background check due to his legal status and then was prosecuted, convicted, and sent to prison.

 

[Mustang]

Senate rejects expanded gun background checks - CNN.com

I see sanity finally prevailed

I think you mean cowardice.

 

[bodecea]

May the NRA be with you.

Because reason is gone.

What a shame...it was only background checks. Apparently that was too much to ask.

 

[Spoonman]

LOL, only fools think this would have changed anything for the better.

Senate rejects expanded gun background checks - CNN.com

More innocent Americans will die because of right wing stupidity, many of them innocent children.

well libs thought it would so I guess you are right

 

[initforme]

The gun war is lost. The drug war is lost. Some who are against gun legislation are for keeping illegal drugs illegal. They are hypocrites who I look down upon.

 

[Mustang]

We know this because according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, only .7% of convicts bought their firearms at gun shows.

Further, according to the BATF, most crime guns are either bought off the street from illegal sources through family members or friends...neither of which would be effected in any way by another law requiring a background check.

So...that's how we know.

Link?

Library, where you'll find Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, February 2002 and other BATF stats. Enjoy.

So, no link. Got it.

 

[Vast LWC]

Library, where you'll find Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, February 2002 and other BATF stats. Enjoy.

Ye...ah....

Couple of things:

First of all, those stats are from 1991. Obviously long before Gun Shows became as popular as they are now.

Why do we have no newer stats? Because congress blocked the federal government from doing these types of studies.

Secondly, here are the actual stats, from 1991:

Street/illegal source 40.8
Friends or family 33.8
Gun show 0.6
Flea market 1.3
Pawnshop 4.2
Retail store 14.7

Note the category you are describing, "Friends or Family".

Certainly "Friends" would be covered by the legislation in question. Which leaves about 16-20 of guns being obtained from family members.

That's over 80% that are being obtained by other means.

 

[eflatminor]

I would agree with you, but you're wrong.

Really?

Please feel free to provide an example of a gun shop that was forced to sell a weapon to a convicted criminal during F&F.

Several of the purchasers were found to have been previously convicted on drug charges. Feel free to research it yourself.

 

[Brain357]

Polls don't override the Constitution.

I don't think it will go very well for the Republicans come election time.

 

[eflatminor]

Link?

Library, where you'll find Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, February 2002 and other BATF stats. Enjoy.

So, no link. Got it.

So, no library card. Got it.

 

[Vast LWC]

Yep that would put a stop to largely dem controlled metro areas cancelling the votes of the suburban areas, a real representative system, a dems nightmare.

Personally I would have gone with a straight up popular vote count, and done away with the electoral college altogether.

That would be a "real representative system", rather than giving small (mainly Republican) states a vastly larger amount of representation, per person, than their large-state counterparts.

 

[Mustang]

Library, where you'll find Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, February 2002 and other BATF stats. Enjoy.

Ye...ah....

Couple of things:

First of all, those stats are from 1991 long before Gun Shows became as popular as they are now.

Why do we have no newer stats? Because congress blocked the federal government from doing these types of studies.

Secondly, here are the actual stats, from 1991:

Street/illegal source 40.8
Friends or family 33.8
Gun show 0.6
Flea market 1.3
Pawnshop 4.2
Retail store 14.7

Note the category you are describing, "Friends or Family".

Certainly "Friends" would be covered by the legislation in question. Which leaves about 16-20 of guns being obtained from family members.

That's over 80% that are being obtained by other means.

And can anyone take a guess as to why Congress did that?

 

[eflatminor]

Library, where you'll find Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, February 2002 and other BATF stats. Enjoy.

Ye...ah....

Couple of things:

First of all, those stats are from 1991 long before Gun Shows became as popular as they are now.

Been going to gun shows since the 70s. They've been around long before that. Their popularity has nothing to do with the fact that criminals do not obtain their firearms at gun shows. They steal them, get them on the black market, or acquire them from a fellow thug.

Sorry if the truth doesn't fit your agenda.

Why do we have no newer stats? Because congress blocked the federal government from doing these types of studies.

Secondly, here are the actual stats, from 1991:

Street/illegal source 40.8
Friends or family 33.8
Gun show 0.6 Thanks for making my point!
Flea market 1.3
Pawnshop 4.2
Retail store 14.7

Note the category you are describing, "Friends or Family".

Certainly "Friends" would be covered by the legislation in question.

Riiiight. A "friend" of the criminal is going to obey existing laws...and if he doesn't, he will CERTAINLY obey a new one...