Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[Bern80]

there is no-one building housing in ND, there is no reason. these jobs for the most part temp.
MAN CAMPS, I KNOW

jRK You're wrong. I don't know any other way to say it. I've been there. I've spoken to people in those communities. I know. What do you think? They're going to have all the oil out of the ground in a couple months? Estimates right now indicate there is more oil in this one location than anywhere on the rest of the continent combined. You really are an economic neophyte to not be able to see how these things are connected. Even if it were true that is just man camps. That's new people in the community. That's more people spending money in the community for their basic needs. Which means businesses will have to hire more people to meet demand.

whendid you read in this thread it was about me? what I am doing now has NOTHING to do with this issue or is it any of your business

Yes you have made it about you. You are the one who claimed well we just don't understand becaue you think this is unique to where you live. You are the one crying woe is me I may have to move to Canada to keep doing what I'm doing. The fact is know you don't. Why not consider a new career path. One that is in demand and pays well?

Bern your such a fucking dick head, chill out ok
you dont have to agree with me, but stop making this about everything but what its about

And you're an intellectually dishonest weasel.

Lowering taxes
taking people off of entitlement programs
adding people to the tax base
raising the minimum wage thru tax policy changes

And thats it, your making a fool out of your self and any adult can see it

No adult is going to agree with that sentiment or anything you've said. Here's a clue idiot; when you call someone a 100% pro corporate america, anti worker rights, liberal plant, do you really think you're going to gain credibility with anyone?

 

[JRK]

And you got this statistic from where?

By complex math which I will now attempt to walk you though.

The claim is that 53% of all workers pay FEDERAL income taxes.

100% - 53% = 47%.

I know this might be terribly difficult for you so I'll repeat it slowly

1 0 0 % - (m i n u s) 5 3 % = (e q u a l s) 4 7%.

Got it?

Just because one ends up with no federal tax burden has no bearing on whether their wage reaches some University researcher's definition of "living".
In order for your statement to make any sense, you'd have to provide a link where proof is provided that the absence of federal tax burden is a direct corollary to the alleged 'living wage'.....Right now, you are simply spewing spin.

Now...Once again, you got these stats from where?

Not my place to answer, but
The Tax Foundation - Number of Americans Paying Zero Federal Income Tax Grows to 43.4 Million

And $ is the issue with wellfare and medicare, medicade

$695 billion (+4.9%) – Social Security
$571 billion (+58.6%) – Unemployment/Welfare/Other mandatory spending
$453 billion (+6.6%) – Medicare
$290 billion (+12.0%) – Medicaid
SS is paid for
the UE number should never be with the UE number as UE is for the most part funded, in fact I think until 2010 it was 100% funded
you can google and find out

You see the issues?
2010 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bern80]

Cutting corporate tax rates
Cutting by 100s of billions the amount of entitlements we spend each year
Adding 100s of billions to the GDP

These are liberal ideas?

If i am the stupid, moronic one, whats your solution?
Do you even have one?
Calling your fellow american these names will get you a prime time talk show on HBO with Bill Mayer, or make a movie with Micheal Moore
Sounds like to me hope is a word you have no understanding of

Yes moron, we've all given you our conservative solutions multiple times, you just choose to ignore them and refuse to learn from them. No conservative has an issue with cutting taxes or entitlements. Conservatives do have an issue with the government mandating wages. At this point, you should have that figured out......but you don't.

So your solution to lowering the number of people on entitlement programs is to do away with the minimum wage?
thats it?
Leave taxes where they are?
how do you suggest we pay for the 1.4 trillion dollars we are short on a balanced budget that is a direct result of people on entitlement programs?

You can call me names all you want, the problem will never change and it makes you and Bern look more like a chold every-time you do this

How many times do you need it spelled out for you. If the problem is you're not making enough to live on, the solution is you do something else. Something that is enough to live on.

We're all for lowering taxes and doing away with welfare. That does't change the fact that earning enough to live on is YOUR problem, not your employers.

 

[Foxfyre]

How how much did you pay in federal taxes the first year you filed independently?

Not only that, but currently Mr. Foxfyre and I are among the 47% who pay no federal income tax? Why? Because we are retired and are mostly living off our social security and modest retirement fund plus some modest income from our business that we are gradually winding down. But we do have to file a tax return to show that we don't have to pay federal income tax.

But we drive a good car, live in a nice house, have plenty to eat, have television sets all over the house, computers, shelves full of books, and money to entertain or go out to have fun now and then.

But we are counted among the 47%.

And yes, we support legislation that would require us to pay a flat tax on what modest earnings we have. It is not healthy for almost half the earners in the country to have no stake in the tax system. Only when we share and share alike in the consequences of the laws that are passed will we elect people who look after everybody's interests instead of those who will keep our special privileges intact.

The 47% is NOT based on a 'living wage' concept in any way, shape, or form.

Did you pay taxes when you collected all of those items? do you pay capital gains tax?
47% of the popualtion is not on SS either
Its allot to do with people who do not make enough to be paert of the solution, there part of the problem

With respect, 7.75 an hour is part of the problem. Let me ask you a simple question
If you had a choice in giving the federal govt 150-175 billion a year or take that same wealth and put it back into the economy, what would you perfer?
The question is that simple

I was only using my own circumstances as an illustration of why many in that 47% are not and would not be affected by a 'living wage' of any amount and to explain that our now part time income is purely by our own choice and preference, but we are nevertheless among that 47%. That is to dispel any notion that all of that 47% of wage earners are not earning a 'living wage' or that they could not do so if they chose to do so. And yes, when we were earning a taxable income, I paid capital gains taxes.

And in answer to your question, I want the federal government to take in taxes only what is absolutely necessary to fulfill its constitutional responsibilities and then leave me alone to use MY legally and ethically acquired property, including money, as I see fit.

What the others and I have been trying to explain to you is that your idea of taxing less but forcing employers to pay more is a leftist Marxist concept of redistribution of wealth. And it has the same chilling and negative effect on the economy as does excess taxation and the government then distributing the wealth plus it leaves every single door open for corruption, graft, and abuse of the system.

Only when a man/woman' personal property is viewed as sacrosanct and beyond the reach of the federal government to control do we truly have freedom and will the blessings of liberty be realized in increased productivity, prosperity, opportunity, and choices.

 

[JRK]

there is no-one building housing in ND, there is no reason. these jobs for the most part temp.
MAN CAMPS, I KNOW

jRK You're wrong. I don't know any other way to say it. I've been there. I've looked. I know. What do you think? They're going to have all the oil out of the ground in a couple months? Estimates right now indicate there is more oil in this one location than anywhere on the rest of the continent combined. You really are an economic neophyte to not be able to see how these things are connected. Even if it were true that is just man camps. That's new people in the community. That's more people spending money in the community for their basic needs. Which means businesses will have to hire more people to meet demand.

whendid you read in this thread it was about me? what I am doing now has NOTHING to do with this issue or is it any of your business

Yes you have made it about you. You are the one who claimed well we just don't understand becaue you think this is unique to where you live. You are the one crying woe is me I may have to move to Canada to keep doing what I'm doing. The fact is know you don't. Why not consider a new career path. One that is in demand and pays well?

Bern your such a fucking dick head, chill out ok
you dont have to agree with me, but stop making this about everything but what its about

And you're an intellectually dishonest weasel.

Lowering taxes
taking people off of entitlement programs
adding people to the tax base
raising the minimum wage thru tax policy changes

And thats it, your making a fool out of your self and any adult can see it

No adult is going to agree with that sentiment or anything you've said. Here's a clue idiot; when you call someone a 100% pro corporate american liberal plant, do you really think you're going to gain credibility with anyone?

Bern this has nothing to do wih me, your doing that because Your probably a liberal plant, probably paid

This issue is about

LOWERING TAXES
RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE
CUTTING THE DEFICT BY ADDING TO THE TAX BASE, CUTTING ENTITLEMENT THRU A FREE MARKET RESOLUTION

DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR TAX CUT FOR WAGE INCREASE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING IN MY LIFE OR WHAT IS GOING ON IN N.D.
THOSE PEOPLE MANNING THOSE JOBS ARE NOT MAKING 7.75 AN HOUR AND THERE IS NOT 6 MILLION JOBS THERE FOR THE 6 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THERE JOBS SENSE 2008 MUCH LESS THE MILLIONS WHO MAKE LESS THAN 9.00 AN HOUR YOU IDIOT, NOW WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU THINK FUCKING WITH ME, WHO I AM, WHAT IS GOING ON IN MY LIFE THAT YOU ARE SO OBSESSED TO FUCK WITH DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

YOU ARE ONE MORE STUPID, CHILDISH, 3RD GRADE RESPONSE FROM BEING IGNORED

 

[thereisnospoon]

I feel strongly those who have been strongly against my idea are lib plants for this reason. 15,000 a year = a dependant, 28,000 a year with dollar for dollar tac cuts = an asset. Free market solutions for a free market issue that is a creation of the federal govt setting that base line poverty level pay

A LLC with 40 emloyees having 25% below the poverty level only cares of there bottom line. Govt sets that bottom line thru pay mandates and many diifferent tax burdens

That's because you are too stupid to know a conservative opinion if it walked up and bit you on the ass. You propose a government mandated living wage and have the nerve to call conservatives who differ with you liberals. If you can't understand how moronic that is, there is little hope for you.

Cutting corporate tax rates
Cutting by 100s of billions the amount of entitlements we spend each year
Adding 100s of billions to the GDP

These are liberal ideas?

If i am the stupid, moronic one, whats your solution?
Do you even have one?
Calling your fellow american these names will get you a prime time talk show on HBO with Bill Mayer, or make a movie with Micheal Moore
Sounds like to me hope is a word you have no understanding of

Ok..I will stipulate those points are valid and in line with conservative thinking.
However, you are all wet on the wage mandate. Just not happening.
Now please, spare us the race for the Pepto Bisomol.....And stop with this nonsense about government wage increases.......CHRIST!!!!!!

 

[JRK]

That's because you are too stupid to know a conservative opinion if it walked up and bit you on the ass. You propose a government mandated living wage and have the nerve to call conservatives who differ with you liberals. If you can't understand how moronic that is, there is little hope for you.

Cutting corporate tax rates
Cutting by 100s of billions the amount of entitlements we spend each year
Adding 100s of billions to the GDP

These are liberal ideas?

If i am the stupid, moronic one, whats your solution?
Do you even have one?
Calling your fellow american these names will get you a prime time talk show on HBO with Bill Mayer, or make a movie with Micheal Moore
Sounds like to me hope is a word you have no understanding of

Ok..I will stipulate those points are valid and in line with conservative thinking.
However, you are all wet on the wage mandate. Just not happening.
Now please, spare us the race for the Pepto Bisomol.....And stop with this nonsense about government wage increases.......CHRIST!!!!!!

The thing this issue has that you that call yourselves conservatives is missing is the DEBT

IT HAS TO BE FIXED

This a plan that will
cut taxes
cut entitlement
rasie the GDP

We have no choice in this matter.

Let me ask you a question.

You have 150 billion dollars per year
You give it to Obama
or
You in a 3 year period raise the minimum wage from 7.75 an hour to 13.00 an hour that will include all legacy cost as part of ones wage?

Which do you do?

This is all this is about, not what is going on in N.D. or my life

 

[Bern80]

there is no-one building housing in ND, there is no reason. these jobs for the most part temp.
MAN CAMPS, I KNOW

jRK You're wrong. I don't know any other way to say it. I've been there. I've looked. I know. What do you think? They're going to have all the oil out of the ground in a couple months? Estimates right now indicate there is more oil in this one location than anywhere on the rest of the continent combined. You really are an economic neophyte to not be able to see how these things are connected. Even if it were true that is just man camps. That's new people in the community. That's more people spending money in the community for their basic needs. Which means businesses will have to hire more people to meet demand.



Yes you have made it about you. You are the one who claimed well we just don't understand becaue you think this is unique to where you live. You are the one crying woe is me I may have to move to Canada to keep doing what I'm doing. The fact is know you don't. Why not consider a new career path. One that is in demand and pays well?



And you're an intellectually dishonest weasel.

Lowering taxes
taking people off of entitlement programs
adding people to the tax base
raising the minimum wage thru tax policy changes

And thats it, your making a fool out of your self and any adult can see it

No adult is going to agree with that sentiment or anything you've said. Here's a clue idiot; when you call someone a 100% pro corporate american liberal plant, do you really think you're going to gain credibility with anyone?

Bern this has nothing to do wih me, your doing that because Your probably a liberal plant, probably paid

This issue is about

LOWERING TAXES
RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE
CUTTING THE DEFICT BY ADDING TO THE TAX BASE, CUTTING ENTITLEMENT THRU A FREE MARKET RESOLUTION

DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR TAX CUT FOR WAGE INCREASE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING IN MY LIFE OR WHAT IS GOING ON IN N.D.
THOSE PEOPLE MANNING THOSE JOBS ARE NOT MAKING 7.75 AN HOUR AND THERE IS NOT 6 MILLION JOBS THERE FOR THE 6 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THERE JOBS SENSE 2008 MUCH LESS THE MILLIONS WHO MAKE LESS THAN 9.00 AN HOUR YOU IDIOT, NOW WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU THINK FUCKING WITH ME, WHO I AM, WHAT IS GOING ON IN MY LIFE THAT YOU ARE SO OBSESSED TO FUCK WITH DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

YOU ARE ONE MORE STUPID, CHILDISH, 3RD GRADE RESPONSE FROM BEING IGNORED

About as childish as having to resort to calling someone a liberal plant with ZERO evidence for it? Since we're on the subject of compensation, what value would a liberal organization find in paying someone to post on a message board ideas that aren't at all liberal to begin with? You really are pathetic. You want to pretend the subject has changed from you insisting on a mandated living wage to tax cuts, go ahead. The record of this thread is here for everyone to see.

No one is fucking with you. You are pretending this has been made personal as an excuse to avoid discussing the logistical and moral problems and mandating that employer's pay people enough to live on. Have you noticed that while we keep trying to get you to address that you've barely commented on it for pages now? Again we're talking to about apples and you keep replying back about organes. You keep posting back how you're not liberal cause this about tax cuts or about how we're making this personl or about you seem to know so much about the labor demands in north dakota or how tough it is in your part of the country. You keep dodging around what ANY of that has to do with why an employer has any type of obligation to provide for an individual's basic needs. That's pretty telling.

 

[JRK]

jRK You're wrong. I don't know any other way to say it. I've been there. I've looked. I know. What do you think? They're going to have all the oil out of the ground in a couple months? Estimates right now indicate there is more oil in this one location than anywhere on the rest of the continent combined. You really are an economic neophyte to not be able to see how these things are connected. Even if it were true that is just man camps. That's new people in the community. That's more people spending money in the community for their basic needs. Which means businesses will have to hire more people to meet demand.



Yes you have made it about you. You are the one who claimed well we just don't understand becaue you think this is unique to where you live. You are the one crying woe is me I may have to move to Canada to keep doing what I'm doing. The fact is know you don't. Why not consider a new career path. One that is in demand and pays well?



And you're an intellectually dishonest weasel.



No adult is going to agree with that sentiment or anything you've said. Here's a clue idiot; when you call someone a 100% pro corporate american liberal plant, do you really think you're going to gain credibility with anyone?

Bern this has nothing to do wih me, your doing that because Your probably a liberal plant, probably paid

This issue is about

LOWERING TAXES
RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE
CUTTING THE DEFICT BY ADDING TO THE TAX BASE, CUTTING ENTITLEMENT THRU A FREE MARKET RESOLUTION

DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR TAX CUT FOR WAGE INCREASE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING IN MY LIFE OR WHAT IS GOING ON IN N.D.
THOSE PEOPLE MANNING THOSE JOBS ARE NOT MAKING 7.75 AN HOUR AND THERE IS NOT 6 MILLION JOBS THERE FOR THE 6 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THERE JOBS SENSE 2008 MUCH LESS THE MILLIONS WHO MAKE LESS THAN 9.00 AN HOUR YOU IDIOT, NOW WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU THINK FUCKING WITH ME, WHO I AM, WHAT IS GOING ON IN MY LIFE THAT YOU ARE SO OBSESSED TO FUCK WITH DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

YOU ARE ONE MORE STUPID, CHILDISH, 3RD GRADE RESPONSE FROM BEING IGNORED

About as childish as having to resort to calling someone a liberal plant with ZERO evidence for it? Since we're on the subject of compensation, what value would a liberal organization find in paying someone to post on a message board ideas that aren't at all liberal to begin with? You really are pathetic. You want to pretend the subject has changed from you insisting on a mandated living wage to tax cuts, go ahead. The record of this thread is here for everyone to see.

No one is fucking with you. You are pretending this has been made personal as an excuse to avoid discussing the logistical and moral problems and mandating that employer's pay people enough to live on. Have you noticed that while we keep trying to get you to address that you've barely commented on it for pages now? That's pretty telling.

move on .org
thats the biggest

AVOIDING

BERN
YOU HAVE 150 BILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR
YOU GIVE IT TO OBAMA
OR
YOU RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE 4.25 IN A 3 YEAR PERIOD

THATS ALL THERE IS TO THIS IDEA BERN, ALL THAT THERE HAS EVER BEEN BERN

I HAVE NO MORALITY BECAUSE I CHOOSE THOSE WHO WORK HARD EVERYDAY TO GET THAT MONEY AND NOT OBAMA BERN?
N.D
ME
DEGREES IN ENGINEERING

Has nothing to do with this thread

WHAT DO YOU CHOOSE BERN

 

[Bern80]

The thing this issue has that you that call yourselves conservatives is missing is the DEBT

IT HAS TO BE FIXED

This a plan that will
cut taxes
cut entitlement
rasie the GDP

We have no choice in this matter.

Let me ask you a question.

You have 150 billion dollars per year
You give it to Obama
or
You in a 3 year period raise the minimum wage from 7.75 an hour to 13.00 an hour that will include all legacy cost as part of ones wage?

Which do you do?

This is all this is about, not what is going on in N.D. or my life

It is about how one goes about acquiring enough to live on. Finding jobs that provide that is one of those solutions, thus yes jobs in ND and proffessions and other parts of the country that currenlty are in demand is very much a part of the solution.

No you are not eliminating entitlements. You have maintained throughout that people deserve enough money to live on. That they are entitled to that. All you are doing is TRANSFERING from whom the entitlement comes from and who's responsible for it. You can not be so narrow minded as to think you're about scenario are the only two options. We've given you plenty. How about first the government drastically reduce its spending and this taxes anyway. That alone will incentivize people to spend and hopefully enough for businesses to start hiring some more. You don't want to pay for welfare? Fine, let's not pay for it. Government not subsidizing people doesn't inherently mean someone else has to pay for them. If you give people no other option but to change, you will be quite surprised what they are capable of.

 

[Foxfyre]

Minimum wage IS an entitlement for those who work.

 

[Bern80]

move on .org
thats the biggest

AVOIDING

Avoiding what? Admitting I'm liberal? I can't confess to being what I'm not. What stance of mine specifically could be even remotely construed as liberal? The only thing I can figure is your warped brain has you so convinced that mandating a living wage is a conservative idea that anyone who disagrees with that must be liberal. Good luck getting anyone to agree with that.

 

[JRK]

The thing this issue has that you that call yourselves conservatives is missing is the DEBT

IT HAS TO BE FIXED

This a plan that will
cut taxes
cut entitlement
rasie the GDP

We have no choice in this matter.

Let me ask you a question.

You have 150 billion dollars per year
You give it to Obama
or
You in a 3 year period raise the minimum wage from 7.75 an hour to 13.00 an hour that will include all legacy cost as part of ones wage?

Which do you do?

This is all this is about, not what is going on in N.D. or my life

It is about how one goes about acquiring enough to live on. Finding jobs that provide that is one of those solutions, thus yes jobs in ND and proffessions and other parts of the country that currenlty are in demand is very much a part of the solution.

No you are not eliminating entitlements. You have maintained throughout that people deserve enough money to live on. That they are entitled to that. All you are doing is TRANSFERING from whom the entitlement comes from and who's responsible for it. You can not be so narrow minded as to think you're about scenario are the only two options. We've given you plenty. How about first the government drastically reduce its spending and this taxes anyway. That alone will incentivize people to spend and hopefully enough for businesses to start hiring some more. You don't want to pay for welfare? Fine, let's not pay for it. Government not subsidizing people doesn't inherently mean someone else has to pay for them. If you give people no other option but to change, you will be quite surprised what they are capable of.

I ask you a simple, accurate question
let me try to make it as simple as I can make it

150 billion dollars
do you give it to Obama
or
do you use it to raise the minimum wage 4.25 an hour

Bern there is nothing more to this. You and I are not going to change the amount we pay, our debt is to hi
It can only change in who we pay it to to lower the national debt

Losing your mind, pretending the 6 million people who have lost there jobs sense 2008 do not exist, Thinking N.D where there are at least 4 people trying to get 1 job job there has anything to do with poverty levels, entitlement programs and how we resolve them has nothing to do with 1 simple solution to be part of many issues that face this country

Pretending this solution does not include a tax cut
Pretending this solution is a transfeer of wealth from govt to the free market, these claims are un true

Simple question Bern requires a simple answer
do we give it to Obama
do we raise the minumum wage

leaving it alone, BHO gets it

 

[Foxfyre]

In the net effect on the economy it does not matter whether you funnel the 150 billion through the government or force employers to pay it. It has the same chilling effect either way and is actually MORE damaging when you presume to tell an employer how much he HAS to pay his employees. Such a policy will cause more people to need government assistance than already do.

Labor is worth only as much as labor is worth. Force an employer to pay more than the labor is worth, and the employer won't hire at all or will lay off workers he otherwise would keep on.

 

[kwc57]

Cutting corporate tax rates
Cutting by 100s of billions the amount of entitlements we spend each year
Adding 100s of billions to the GDP

These are liberal ideas?

If i am the stupid, moronic one, whats your solution?
Do you even have one?
Calling your fellow american these names will get you a prime time talk show on HBO with Bill Mayer, or make a movie with Micheal Moore
Sounds like to me hope is a word you have no understanding of

Yes moron, we've all given you our conservative solutions multiple times, you just choose to ignore them and refuse to learn from them. No conservative has an issue with cutting taxes or entitlements. Conservatives do have an issue with the government mandating wages. At this point, you should have that figured out......but you don't.

So your solution to lowering the number of people on entitlement programs is to do away with the minimum wage?
thats it?
Leave taxes where they are?
how do you suggest we pay for the 1.4 trillion dollars we are short on a balanced budget that is a direct result of people on entitlement programs?

You can call me names all you want, the problem will never change and it makes you and Bern look more like a chold every-time you do this

I have called you a moron because you are acting like a moron. Show me in the post you responded to or any other post in this thread where I EVER said do away with the minimum wage. You'll come up empty handed. That is part of the issue here JRK, you interpret clear and plain posts to mean something you totally pull out of your ass. You keep putting words in our mouths that we never said.

My solution to lowering the number of people on entitlement programs is to close the programs. They have become slaves to the programs and willnever leave them on theor own to get an education and a job. Why should they when they can continue succking on the government teat like mom, grandma and great-grandma did. If you end entitlement programs, you don't have to fund them. If you don't have to fund them, your spending goes down and you get much closer to balancing the budget. If the budget is balanced and the government is only spending based on what the constitutional responsibilities are, you need to collect less taxes.

It is not the government's job to provide for people. It is each person's responsibility to provide for themself and their family.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Cutting corporate tax rates
Cutting by 100s of billions the amount of entitlements we spend each year
Adding 100s of billions to the GDP

These are liberal ideas?

If i am the stupid, moronic one, whats your solution?
Do you even have one?
Calling your fellow american these names will get you a prime time talk show on HBO with Bill Mayer, or make a movie with Micheal Moore
Sounds like to me hope is a word you have no understanding of

Ok..I will stipulate those points are valid and in line with conservative thinking.
However, you are all wet on the wage mandate. Just not happening.
Now please, spare us the race for the Pepto Bisomol.....And stop with this nonsense about government wage increases.......CHRIST!!!!!!

The thing this issue has that you that call yourselves conservatives is missing is the DEBT

IT HAS TO BE FIXED

This a plan that will
cut taxes
cut entitlement
rasie the GDP

We have no choice in this matter.

Let me ask you a question.

You have 150 billion dollars per year
You give it to Obama
or
You in a 3 year period raise the minimum wage from 7.75 an hour to 13.00 an hour that will include all legacy cost as part of ones wage?

Which do you do?

This is all this is about, not what is going on in N.D. or my life

I asked you to stop the nonsense. Now your argument has gone anorexic.
Debt? C'mon ...That has nothing to do with government mandated wage increases.
It doesn't matter if taxes were cut to zero....
Now read very carefully....Higher wages must be paid immediately....Tax cuts or breaks are not returned in cash. The same cash that the business has to lay out to pay the workers their new and MUCH higher wages.
You are proposing that business use cash reserves to pay higher wages and force them to wait until the end of the fiscal year to recoup only a part of that capital expense.
Sorry. Doesn't work that way. Unless you can change the way government taxes and/or refunds in the form of payment, you idea goes nowhere. If you think the possibility exists that the federal government is going to stop holding funds deemed for refunds or tax credits for an entire year( presumably to use as spending capital) you are nuts....

 

[kwc57]

Bern this has nothing to do wih me, your doing that because Your probably a liberal plant, probably paid

This issue is about

LOWERING TAXES
RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE
CUTTING THE DEFICT BY ADDING TO THE TAX BASE, CUTTING ENTITLEMENT THRU A FREE MARKET RESOLUTION

DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR TAX CUT FOR WAGE INCREASE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING IN MY LIFE OR WHAT IS GOING ON IN N.D.
THOSE PEOPLE MANNING THOSE JOBS ARE NOT MAKING 7.75 AN HOUR AND THERE IS NOT 6 MILLION JOBS THERE FOR THE 6 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THERE JOBS SENSE 2008 MUCH LESS THE MILLIONS WHO MAKE LESS THAN 9.00 AN HOUR YOU IDIOT, NOW WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU THINK FUCKING WITH ME, WHO I AM, WHAT IS GOING ON IN MY LIFE THAT YOU ARE SO OBSESSED TO FUCK WITH DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

YOU ARE ONE MORE STUPID, CHILDISH, 3RD GRADE RESPONSE FROM BEING IGNORED

About as childish as having to resort to calling someone a liberal plant with ZERO evidence for it? Since we're on the subject of compensation, what value would a liberal organization find in paying someone to post on a message board ideas that aren't at all liberal to begin with? You really are pathetic. You want to pretend the subject has changed from you insisting on a mandated living wage to tax cuts, go ahead. The record of this thread is here for everyone to see.

No one is fucking with you. You are pretending this has been made personal as an excuse to avoid discussing the logistical and moral problems and mandating that employer's pay people enough to live on. Have you noticed that while we keep trying to get you to address that you've barely commented on it for pages now? That's pretty telling.

move on .org
thats the biggest

AVOIDING

BERN
YOU HAVE 150 BILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR
YOU GIVE IT TO OBAMA
OR
YOU RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE 4.25 IN A 3 YEAR PERIOD

THATS ALL THERE IS TO THIS IDEA BERN, ALL THAT THERE HAS EVER BEEN BERN

I HAVE NO MORALITY BECAUSE I CHOOSE THOSE WHO WORK HARD EVERYDAY TO GET THAT MONEY AND NOT OBAMA BERN?
N.D
ME
DEGREES IN ENGINEERING

Has nothing to do with this thread

WHAT DO YOU CHOOSE BERN

You choose neither. They are both government meddling in the affairs of others.

 

[JRK]

In the net effect on the economy it does not matter whether you funnel the 150 billion through the government or force employers to pay it. It has the same chilling effect either way and is actually MORE damaging when you presume to tell an employer how much he HAS to pay his employees. Such a policy will cause more people to need government assistance than already do.

Labor is worth only as much as labor is worth. Force an employer to pay more than the labor is worth, and the employer won't hire at all or will lay off workers he otherwise would keep on.

What continues to confuse me is where the employer has any place in this event as it relates to cost
he gets dollar for dallor tax break on a W-2 backed event as I have described, he pays no taxes any way
His/Her bottom line does not change
In fact the employer if anything will get a better employee, thats it

The consumer pages all wages and all taxes

The biggest problem here is every-one who is debating this with me has no understanding as to how this works

Companies base there price on everything including tax cost
That cost goes down, labor cost goes up the exact same amount, it is a wash

1) do you let Obama spend it?
2) do you let John Doe spend it?
3) do you increase the GDP or allow it to keep it where it is?
4) do you lower entitlement or do you allow it to remain running away?

This is the debate

 

[LoneLaugher]

How many able bodied, adult Americans are intentionally not working and having their livlihood furnished by taxpayer dollars? Does anyone have a number?

 

[JRK]

about as childish as having to resort to calling someone a liberal plant with zero evidence for it? Since we're on the subject of compensation, what value would a liberal organization find in paying someone to post on a message board ideas that aren't at all liberal to begin with? You really are pathetic. You want to pretend the subject has changed from you insisting on a mandated living wage to tax cuts, go ahead. The record of this thread is here for everyone to see.

No one is fucking with you. You are pretending this has been made personal as an excuse to avoid discussing the logistical and moral problems and mandating that employer's pay people enough to live on. Have you noticed that while we keep trying to get you to address that you've barely commented on it for pages now? That's pretty telling.

move on .org
thats the biggest

avoiding

bern
you have 150 billion dollars per year
you give it to obama
or
you raise the minimum wage 4.25 in a 3 year period

thats all there is to this idea bern, all that there has ever been bern

i have no morality because i choose those who work hard everyday to get that money and not obama bern?
N.d
me
degrees in engineering

has nothing to do with this thread

what do you choose bern

you choose neither. They are both government meddling in the affairs of others.

there all ready doing it, your choice is not an option
why are you people in such a level of denial?

Every event i offer to change exists all ready. There is no option c