Fair Tax vs. Flat Tax: Why Income Taxes destroys US jobs

[PrometheusBound]

Your knowledge of "capitalism" sucks. P

Steve isn't unhappy that he's making more than Joe. He might not even know about it. Steve looks at his options. Anywhere he goes with a base pay of 30/hr he will only take home 22.50. So he might very well have the best option, especially if you count in benefits not taxed, like health insurance, vacations, and other perks.

typical government school education.

Your final points repeat the canard that companies pay taxes. They do not.

l

You should seriously take an economics 101 class and learn the basics about how markets function. It's pathetic that isn't required in high school. They would turn out fewer people like you who have no idea how markets function.[/QUOTE]


The only market force is the distorting force of concentrated wealth.

Imagine a free market in traffic. The rich would be able to afford cars built like tanks. Soon everybody else would quit driving, in fear for their lives. Only the rich would get where they wanted to go. But if the rest weren't cowards, the would learn how to use the LAW (Light Anti-tank Weapon).

 

[kaz]

Imagine a free market in traffic. The rich would be able to afford cars built like tanks. Soon everybody else would quit driving, in fear for their lives. Only the rich would get where they wanted to go. But if the rest weren't cowards, the would learn how to use the LAW (Light Anti-tank Weapon).

Oh fear, fear, I can't succeed because it's unfair, they are cheating.

Right, Nancy. Again, grow a pair. There is nothing you can't do in this country. I know, I live it every day. If you took some responsibility for your own problems, you might start to fix some of them.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Its not based in reality so its implications don't matter.

If you understood the calculation, then you would understand how it relates to reality.

I understand arithmetic. The mere fact that your chosen numbers add up the way you say they do does not mean they correspond with reality.

Once you grasp it, let me know. I'm tired of stupid, "duh, I don't get it" arguments from people like you and Ed, and I'm not going pretend there's any relevant discussion to your not getting the point.

There's nothing to get. You just made up some numbers and did some math with them.

Math Test to become an accountant at Enron, the role model for the American business ethic.

Question: How much is 2 + 2?
Answer: How much do you want it to be?

 

[PrometheusBound]

Do you? Prove it. I doubt you do.

I have nothing to prove to you. You're a moron.

You just wallow away the day giving Obama blow jobs.

Obama getting blow jobs? Hallelujah! Then the GOPers can impeach him and we won't hear their whining any more! Have you told Matt Drudge about this?

 

[PrometheusBound]

Why is it that you find it's so important to maintain these huge wealth disparities in the modern U.S.? What's the matter with you, anyway?

Right now, 47% of tax filers and well over 50% of people pay no Income taxes. According to the IRS, 1% of filers pay 40% of all taxes and 5% of filers pay 60% of all taxes.
us are.[/B]

Ya know that blaming working poor people (whether they qualify for the earned income tax credit or not) for the spending decisions in Congress makes you look.....what was it that Freemason said, makes you a dumbshit, yea that was the word, dumbshit.




And I figure that you think that the ultra rich pay to high a percentage of the tax bill. So you want to cut their percentage? And who will you have pay the difference? Poor people and middle class people? And how will that help the economy? Just curious on that.

And I never hear anyone call the rich "evil" on here. But with 1% of the people paying 40% of the tax bill, do you have any idea how much wealth they control? You figure that they have the best lobbyists and accountants in the world to help them not pay taxes and they STILL pay 40%.

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF HOW MUCH WEALTH THEY MUST CONTROL?
a LOT.

So why you worried about them?

You are either for plutocrats (who you seem to support) or populists. Why do you support plutocrats?

You have no compassion for the Greedheads, who have to meet huge alimony payments when their trophy wives find Intolerable Cruelty. Also, you show no pity for the gold-digging bimbos and their lawyers.

 

[The Rabbi]

This topic has come up in discussions, so I decided to start a threat to explain it. It's sad that government schools teach government, they don't teach capitalism. Capitalism is just a term for economic freedom.

Let’s say we have two employees, one is worth Three times as much as the other Joe is worth $10 an hour, Steve is worth $30. Worth is determined by the marketplace. If an employer pays them less than their value, they are unhappy, their work quality drops and they eventually leave .

I was a National Merit scholar. I was worth millions. Yet your plutocratic dictatorship that creates and absolutely controls your imaginary free marketplace expected me to sacrifice years of my life working without pay in college. I saw what a self-destructive choice that would be and refused to let anyone make money off my talent. It would have been a Negative Sum even for me to make any money for myself by sheepishly submitting to their unfunded mandate.

Business and society needed me more than I needed to be their house slave. Only people like me could have cured cancer, for one thing. So those who impose or support this system, which continues exploiting and humiliating talent even after fools with talent who go to college get a job from that, deserve to die from cancer. Without this insulting and one-sided system, we would have cured cancer 50 years ago. If High IQs weren't emasculated from childhood on, they would use their brains solely to confiscate the wealth that had been stolen from their predecessors. Whenever the unprivileged wake up, the plutocratic parasites will have to face being told, "Pay us or we will make you pay."

Maybe if you grew a pair and stopped whining your life would stop sucking so much

The funny thing is he thinks because he was a national merit scholar in high school that the world owes him a living. He needs to grow up and shut up.

 

[PrometheusBound]

This topic has come up in discussions, so I decided to start a threat to explain it. It's sad that government schools teach government, they don't teach capitalism. Capitalism is just a term for economic freedom.

Let’s say we have two employees, one is worth Three times as much as the other Joe is worth $10 an hour, Steve is worth $30. Worth is determined by the marketplace. If an employer pays them less than their value, they are unhappy, their work quality drops and they eventually leave .

I was a National Merit scholar. I was worth millions. Yet your plutocratic dictatorship that creates and absolutely controls your imaginary free marketplace expected me to sacrifice years of my life working without pay in college. I saw what a self-destructive choice that would be and refused to let anyone make money off my talent. It would have been a Negative Sum even for me to make any money for myself by sheepishly submitting to their unfunded mandate.

Business and society needed me more than I needed to be their house slave. Only people like me could have cured cancer, for one thing. So those who impose or support this system, which continues exploiting and humiliating talent even after fools with talent who go to college get a job from that, deserve to die from cancer. Without this insulting and one-sided system, we would have cured cancer 50 years ago. If High IQs weren't emasculated from childhood on, they would use their brains solely to confiscate the wealth that had been stolen from their predecessors. Whenever the unprivileged wake up, the plutocratic parasites will have to face being told, "Pay us or we will make you pay."

Maybe if you grew a pair and stopped whining your life would stop sucking so much

Your endangering your own class with that answer. We outnumber you 100 to 1 and can crush you like grapes. If we grew a pair, we would stop whining and start making wine.

 

[kaz]

You have no compassion for the Greedheads, who have to meet huge alimony payments when their trophy wives find Intolerable Cruelty. Also, you show no pity for the gold-digging bimbos and their lawyers.

Your wealth envy is so unbecoming.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Imagine a free market in traffic. The rich would be able to afford cars built like tanks. Soon everybody else would quit driving, in fear for their lives. Only the rich would get where they wanted to go. But if the rest weren't cowards, the would learn how to use the LAW (Light Anti-tank Weapon).

Oh fear, fear, I can't succeed because it's unfair, they are cheating.

Right, Nancy. Again, grow a pair. There is nothing you can't do in this country. I know, I live it every day. If you took some responsibility for your own problems, you might start to fix some of them.

What you're saying is, "It's our way or the highway." That means your way is the low way.

 

[kaz]

Maybe if you grew a pair and stopped whining your life would stop sucking so much

Your endangering your own class with that answer. We outnumber you 100 to 1 and can crush you like grapes. If we grew a pair, we would stop whining and start making wine.

Actually, no, you're a bunch of docile sheep. If you had the get up and go to take that sort of action, you'd have the get up and go to make something of your life on your own.

If it weren't for people like me who start businesses, run them, take all the risk, and take the responsibility to make it work, then the rest of you wouldn't have jobs. You're going to do nothing to me but whine to your politicians.

 

[kaz]

Oh fear, fear, I can't succeed because it's unfair, they are cheating.

Right, Nancy. Again, grow a pair. There is nothing you can't do in this country. I know, I live it every day. If you took some responsibility for your own problems, you might start to fix some of them.

What you're saying is, "It's our way or the highway." That means your way is the low way.

Actually I didn't say that anywhere. I told you to stop being such a coward and take responsibility for your life. I sound like your parents, don't I? They're tired of your lazy, whining too aren't they?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I'll go with the "Flat Tax" on income when you agree to a "Flat Tax" that applies to payroll taxes. And Social Security taxes.

Um...do you know what "payroll taxes" are?

They aren't flat. They are regressive in fact.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why is it that you find it's so important to maintain these huge wealth disparities in the modern U.S.? What's the matter with you, anyway?

Yes comrade, the proletariat will rise and overthrow the bourgeoisie.

Right now, 47% of tax filers and well over 50% of people pay no Income taxes. According to the IRS, 1% of filers pay 40% of all taxes and 5% of filers pay 60% of all taxes.

There are two problems with what you are saying:

1) If you're not satisfied that overtaxing the evil rich is enough, then you're probably missing the soviet union more than most of us are.

2) People who don't pay income taxes don't feel any ownership of spending, which is why our spending and deficits are spiraling out of control.

So you want to tax people who are poor enough to receive Medicaid and/or food stamps, for example,

so that in effect they end up paying for services they couldn't afford in the first place?

Why not just end their government assistance? Make them poorer in a less complicated manner?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why is it that you find it's so important to maintain these huge wealth disparities in the modern U.S.? What's the matter with you, anyway?

Yes comrade, the proletariat will rise and overthrow the bourgeoisie.

Right now, 47% of tax filers and well over 50% of people pay no Income taxes. According to the IRS, 1% of filers pay 40% of all taxes and 5% of filers pay 60% of all taxes.

There are two problems with what you are saying:

1) If you're not satisfied that overtaxing the evil rich is enough, then you're probably missing the soviet union more than most of us are.

2) People who don't pay income taxes don't feel any ownership of spending, which is why our spending and deficits are spiraling out of control.

Then why are you so keen on the so-called fair tax that effectively exempts everyone under about 30,000 a year from paying any net federal taxes?

 

[kaz]

So you want to tax people who are poor enough to receive Medicaid and/or food stamps, for example,

so that in effect they end up paying for services they couldn't afford in the first place?

Why not just end their government assistance? Make them poorer in a less complicated manner?

This is an example of when I stop talking to liberals. If you want to continue this discussion, you have to demonstrate you grasp my point and not ignore it.

Oh, taxes are baked into the price of products now, and you want to change the formula so they are still baked into the price of the products but it's a different structure.

Ah HAH, you want to tax people on welfare!

I want to kick your Grandma out of her home too. Well, unless she lives in New London, then it was you who kicked her out of her house.

I am resolved though to only argue with liberals when you acknowledge and address my point. Not when you ignore it. Rat holes are your native habitat, once I let you take me there, we're in your domain. I'd still win, because I'm smarter than a liberal. But then so is a fifth grader. But it's still a waste of time.

 

[kaz]

Why is it that you find it's so important to maintain these huge wealth disparities in the modern U.S.? What's the matter with you, anyway?

Yes comrade, the proletariat will rise and overthrow the bourgeoisie.

Right now, 47% of tax filers and well over 50% of people pay no Income taxes. According to the IRS, 1% of filers pay 40% of all taxes and 5% of filers pay 60% of all taxes.

There are two problems with what you are saying:

1) If you're not satisfied that overtaxing the evil rich is enough, then you're probably missing the soviet union more than most of us are.

2) People who don't pay income taxes don't feel any ownership of spending, which is why our spending and deficits are spiraling out of control.

Then why are you so keen on the so-called fair tax that effectively exempts everyone under about 30,000 a year from paying any net federal taxes?

If you read the discussion you were part of, I answered that question in detail numerous times. If you have a question building on my position, I'm in. If you just want to sit there and ask me to keep repeating my position because you don't like it, I'm out. Your call.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes comrade, the proletariat will rise and overthrow the bourgeoisie.

Right now, 47% of tax filers and well over 50% of people pay no Income taxes. According to the IRS, 1% of filers pay 40% of all taxes and 5% of filers pay 60% of all taxes.

There are two problems with what you are saying:

1) If you're not satisfied that overtaxing the evil rich is enough, then you're probably missing the soviet union more than most of us are.

2) People who don't pay income taxes don't feel any ownership of spending, which is why our spending and deficits are spiraling out of control.

Then why are you so keen on the so-called fair tax that effectively exempts everyone under about 30,000 a year from paying any net federal taxes?

If you read the discussion you were part of, I answered that question in detail numerous times. If you have a question building on my position, I'm in. If you just want to sit there and ask me to keep repeating my position because you don't like it, I'm out. Your call.

You said this:

2) People who don't pay income taxes don't feel any ownership of spending, which is why our spending and deficits are spiraling out of control.


Where did you retract that between when you posted it and I asked about it above?

 

[NYcarbineer]

So you want to tax people who are poor enough to receive Medicaid and/or food stamps, for example,

so that in effect they end up paying for services they couldn't afford in the first place?

Why not just end their government assistance? Make them poorer in a less complicated manner?

This is an example of when I stop talking to liberals. If you want to continue this discussion, you have to demonstrate you grasp my point and not ignore it.

Oh, taxes are baked into the price of products now, and you want to change the formula so they are still baked into the price of the products but it's a different structure.

Ah HAH, you want to tax people on welfare!

I want to kick your Grandma out of her home too. Well, unless she lives in New London, then it was you who kicked her out of her house.

I am resolved though to only argue with liberals when you acknowledge and address my point. Not when you ignore it. Rat holes are your native habitat, once I let you take me there, we're in your domain. I'd still win, because I'm smarter than a liberal. But then so is a fifth grader. But it's still a waste of time.

You're an idiot. The first sign of that is that you talk about the fair tax as if it's anything more than an idle fantasy.

Wake up.

 

[kaz]

Then why are you so keen on the so-called fair tax that effectively exempts everyone under about 30,000 a year from paying any net federal taxes?

If you read the discussion you were part of, I answered that question in detail numerous times. If you have a question building on my position, I'm in. If you just want to sit there and ask me to keep repeating my position because you don't like it, I'm out. Your call.

You said this:

2) People who don't pay income taxes don't feel any ownership of spending, which is why our spending and deficits are spiraling out of control.


Where did you retract that between when you posted it and I asked about it above?

OK, fair enough, that question is a lot clearer. The key word was "feel."

Right now, the poor are paying taxes, it's built into the price of the products they buy. And our progressive taxes are harming them. They just don't grasp that, they think they don't pay taxes and they get handouts for free. Even if they are wrong, they don't "feel" that sense of ownership. Which is why I phrased it that way.

I'm not a fan of the prebate, I'd like a straight sales tax and welfare to be unrelated to tax generation. However, it is better than now. If they spent zero, 10K or 100K a year, they get the same prebate. So they do realize when they spend that they are paying the Fair Tax. And if we don't control spending, it will go up.

 

[kaz]

So you want to tax people who are poor enough to receive Medicaid and/or food stamps, for example,

so that in effect they end up paying for services they couldn't afford in the first place?

Why not just end their government assistance? Make them poorer in a less complicated manner?

This is an example of when I stop talking to liberals. If you want to continue this discussion, you have to demonstrate you grasp my point and not ignore it.

Oh, taxes are baked into the price of products now, and you want to change the formula so they are still baked into the price of the products but it's a different structure.

Ah HAH, you want to tax people on welfare!

I want to kick your Grandma out of her home too. Well, unless she lives in New London, then it was you who kicked her out of her house.

I am resolved though to only argue with liberals when you acknowledge and address my point. Not when you ignore it. Rat holes are your native habitat, once I let you take me there, we're in your domain. I'd still win, because I'm smarter than a liberal. But then so is a fifth grader. But it's still a waste of time.

You're an idiot. The first sign of that is that you talk about the fair tax as if it's anything more than an idle fantasy.

Wake up.

Martin Luther King Junior was an idiot, he talked as if blacks would ever be considered equals in this country. Wow, it happened...

You followed up a good question in your last post with a brain fart here. I reject your crap that I can't talk about anything that you don't approve of as realistic or unrealistic.